He had a spell when Jacko first took over where he was everywhere and close to being unplayable for his opposite number. That spell was sandwiched by two very long spells of him going missing in games which is something I dont ever look kindly on. The final nail for me was him blatantly getting himself sent off so he didn't have to play at plough Lane as an ex MK franchise player. Told me all I need to know about his character. Jog him on
I don't rate Albie particularly highly either, like Gilbey he has had plenty of chances, but unless we are ripping out the entire squad and getting both off the books is an option, that's where I lean.
The logic is keeping the cheap option might seem twisted if it wasn't also the case that AM's strengths fit better with how I expect Garner to want to play.
If we can bring in two top class midfielders to compete, I don't mind the idea of Albie being sixth choice. We are on the hunt for ball players and that's the one thing he has going for him.
I spose so. I must admit for me Albie is what Gilbey is to Lueth. He frustrates me so much as I do think there might be a player in there but we have spent far too much time looking for it. Yes he can pick a pass as long as the opposition gives him all the time in the world to do it. If he is ever under any sort of pressure his brain and feet just dont seem aligned.
Morgan looks to get on the ball in the attacking third and play progressive passes. He wants the ball in dangerous areas, and he has not inconsiderable touch and vision. Yeah, he can look ineffectual for games at a time, but there's a quality footballer in there somewhere. Of course, we don't need to choose between him and Gilbey - we can choose neither. But I reckon I know who Garner is going to want more
I don't rate Albie particularly highly either, like Gilbey he has had plenty of chances, but unless we are ripping out the entire squad and getting both off the books is an option, that's where I lean.
The logic is keeping the cheap option might seem twisted if it wasn't also the case that AM's strengths fit better with how I expect Garner to want to play.
If we can bring in two top class midfielders to compete, I don't mind the idea of Albie being sixth choice. We are on the hunt for ball players and that's the one thing he has going for him.
I would sell Gilbey and loan Morgan out. Morgan has been 4th/5th/6th choice for years now and he isn’t getting any better by being in and out of the team. Send him to league 2 (he’d definitely get a move at that level) and get him playing 40 games as a starter. JFC, Dobson, Fraser plus 2 new signings and then Henry as 6th choice. Morgan is old enough to count towards the squad numbers cap now so no point having him here as 6th choice using up a spot
Trouble is no one seemingly wanted Morgan on loan the last few seasons when he was all but given away... Possibly the only way out for him might be if Jackson does us a favour and has him rummaging for more rubbish on Wimbledon common as a Womble...
I don't rate Albie particularly highly either, like Gilbey he has had plenty of chances, but unless we are ripping out the entire squad and getting both off the books is an option, that's where I lean.
The logic is keeping the cheap option might seem twisted if it wasn't also the case that AM's strengths fit better with how I expect Garner to want to play.
If we can bring in two top class midfielders to compete, I don't mind the idea of Albie being sixth choice. We are on the hunt for ball players and that's the one thing he has going for him.
I would sell Gilbey and loan Morgan out. Morgan has been 4th/5th/6th choice for years now and he isn’t getting any better by being in and out of the team. Send him to league 2 (he’d definitely get a move at that level) and get him playing 40 games as a starter. JFC, Dobson, Fraser plus 2 new signings and then Henry as 6th choice. Morgan is old enough to count towards the squad numbers cap now so no point having him here as 6th choice using up a spot
Trouble is no one seemingly wanted Morgan on loan the last few seasons when he was all but given away... Possibly the only way out for him might be if Jackson does us a favour and has him rummaging for more rubbish on Wimbledon common as a Womble...
That was years ago now and he had only had a handful of first team games. He got our most assists last season and although I don’t want him in the team this year, I think he’d be a top player in any league 2 team and would not be short of offers at that level.
Morgan looks to get on the ball in the attacking third and play progressive passes. He wants the ball in dangerous areas, and he has not inconsiderable touch and vision. Yeah, he can look ineffectual for games at a time, but there's a quality footballer in there somewhere. Of course, we don't need to choose between him and Gilbey - we can choose neither. But I reckon I know who Garner is going to want more
I would say that’s what he needs to do more of, rather than what he looks to do. He instead likes to drop deep to get on the ball and show off his range of passing. Which is impressive, and he is good in possession in that role. However, he’s not good enough defensively to play in a deeper role which has always been his problem meaning managers have pushed him forward to an attacking 8 or no.10 role where he can get a bit lost.
I think his future is in a double pivot where he can get on the ball a lot, next to someone like Dobson who can do all his dirty work for him
I don't rate Albie particularly highly either, like Gilbey he has had plenty of chances, but unless we are ripping out the entire squad and getting both off the books is an option, that's where I lean.
The logic is keeping the cheap option might seem twisted if it wasn't also the case that AM's strengths fit better with how I expect Garner to want to play.
If we can bring in two top class midfielders to compete, I don't mind the idea of Albie being sixth choice. We are on the hunt for ball players and that's the one thing he has going for him.
I would sell Gilbey and loan Morgan out. Morgan has been 4th/5th/6th choice for years now and he isn’t getting any better by being in and out of the team. Send him to league 2 (he’d definitely get a move at that level) and get him playing 40 games as a starter. JFC, Dobson, Fraser plus 2 new signings and then Henry as 6th choice. Morgan is old enough to count towards the squad numbers cap now so no point having him here as 6th choice using up a spot
Yep, I agree with this. This is certainly my thinking.
Charlton and Newport (where Gilbey was on loan for about a month and a half).
I think it was the Mental Well-balling podcast where they both mentioned being best friends and they both agreed to join us when they knew we were under an embargo etc. because of the ESI idiots... Think it was a "if you do, I will" sort of deal they both had with each other as they wanted to play together again.
There was also an article in the SLP at the time when they signed more or less at the same time for Charlton, one influenced the other to sign. Something along those lines.
Morgan looks to get on the ball in the attacking third and play progressive passes. He wants the ball in dangerous areas, and he has not inconsiderable touch and vision. Yeah, he can look ineffectual for games at a time, but there's a quality footballer in there somewhere. Of course, we don't need to choose between him and Gilbey - we can choose neither. But I reckon I know who Garner is going to want more
Remember Bowyer saying Morgan does the creative stuff but loses concentration on the defensive side of his game, forgetting to track his opponent, etc.
As we all should know, 90% of a player's game is played without the ball - if a player is not doing his off ball jobs, then a team mate has to compensate and compromise his own offball job ...... and the team shape, gameplan and overall performance suffers too.
Okay, Claus Jensen wasn't keen on the grunt side of his role either, so Curbs brought Kish in to do that for him. But today, that would be a luxury we can't afford.
It's no co-incidence perhaps, that there's been little demand for League clubs to take Albie on loan.
Really had high hopes when he signed but he’s just been a serial disappointment really. If we can get any kind of six figure offer for him, we should take it.
Build next season’s midfield around Dobson, JFC, Fraser, Morgan and two new faces.
Seen others make the Morgan comparison and saying they’d rather keep Gilbey. For me, there are a few reasons that I think Gilbey should be the one offloaded, if possible.
- Both are out of contract next summer I believe. But I would expect we could get a fee for AG, even if it’s nominal. We’ve previously seen that Morgan couldn’t find a loan deal, let alone someone who’ll pay money for him. - I would imagine that Gilbey is on a higher wage than Morgan but that could be incorrect (unlikely). If one is to be kept as back-up, better to keep the cheaper of the two so more money can be reinvested elsewhere. - Gilbey’s qualities are in his box-to-box, lung busting runs and I struggle to see how he would be useful in a possession based style of play that I expect Garner to implement. Albie has him beat from a technique / passing perspective which will be important when he is called upon.
Gilbey’s stamina would’ve been a big asset in a high press team of seasons gone by but today’s pressing is a lot more calculated, using triggers and traps for teams to know when to press and when to hold position. It’s not beyond a player with less stamina like Albie to make it. It leaves a bloke who probably wins the bleep test with his eyes closed less valuable than he would’ve been 10-20 years ago.
I was excited when AG signed but it hasn’t panned out in two years. I don’t want us to go into a third hoping he comes good in a system that doesn’t suit.
Or maybe it's because when brought back into the team, Morgan was more effective than Gilbey.
I don't rate Albie particularly highly either, like Gilbey he has had plenty of chances, but unless we are ripping out the entire squad and getting both off the books is an option, that's where I lean.
The logic is keeping the cheap option might seem twisted if it wasn't also the case that AM's strengths fit better with how I expect Garner to want to play.
If we can bring in two top class midfielders to compete, I don't mind the idea of Albie being sixth choice. We are on the hunt for ball players and that's the one thing he has going for him.
I would sell Gilbey and loan Morgan out. Morgan has been 4th/5th/6th choice for years now and he isn’t getting any better by being in and out of the team. Send him to league 2 (he’d definitely get a move at that level) and get him playing 40 games as a starter. JFC, Dobson, Fraser plus 2 new signings and then Henry as 6th choice. Morgan is old enough to count towards the squad numbers cap now so no point having him here as 6th choice using up a spot
Yep, I agree with this. This is certainly my thinking.
Yep and I certainly agree that this is your thinking on the thinking.
Really had high hopes when he signed but he’s just been a serial disappointment really. If we can get any kind of six figure offer for him, we should take it.
Build next season’s midfield around Dobson, JFC, Fraser, Morgan and two new faces.
Seen others make the Morgan comparison and saying they’d rather keep Gilbey. For me, there are a few reasons that I think Gilbey should be the one offloaded, if possible.
- Both are out of contract next summer I believe. But I would expect we could get a fee for AG, even if it’s nominal. We’ve previously seen that Morgan couldn’t find a loan deal, let alone someone who’ll pay money for him. - I would imagine that Gilbey is on a higher wage than Morgan but that could be incorrect (unlikely). If one is to be kept as back-up, better to keep the cheaper of the two so more money can be reinvested elsewhere. - Gilbey’s qualities are in his box-to-box, lung busting runs and I struggle to see how he would be useful in a possession based style of play that I expect Garner to implement. Albie has him beat from a technique / passing perspective which will be important when he is called upon.
Gilbey’s stamina would’ve been a big asset in a high press team of seasons gone by but today’s pressing is a lot more calculated, using triggers and traps for teams to know when to press and when to hold position. It’s not beyond a player with less stamina like Albie to make it. It leaves a bloke who probably wins the bleep test with his eyes closed less valuable than he would’ve been 10-20 years ago.
I was excited when AG signed but it hasn’t panned out in two years. I don’t want us to go into a third hoping he comes good in a system that doesn’t suit.
Or maybe it's because when brought back into the team, Morgan was more effective than Gilbey.
Gilbey only scoring 2 goals versus 1, despite being allegedly the box to player that you'd expect to get into the box.
Yeah, it's easy to look at stats and believe that tells the story. But without context they never do.
"Assists" is a prime example ........ an assist is only credited where the striker takes the chance. What's a striker's conversion rate? Typically averages at 1-in-3 or worse.
If the chance is missed, the assist is not credited, of course. What about the other 2-in-3 chances? The chance has been created, but no credit given or counted.
'Assists' must be the most over-rated and useless stat of all players' statistics. If you going to have a more purposeful stat, then surely it must be counting chances created?
Now that would give a more accurate picture of a player's creative contribution.
Oggy, are you proposing that Gilbey creates a lot of chances that strikers miss? I don't remember that being the case. I think his assists ratio is a fair reflection of his lack of creativity as a player.
I actually remember Morgan creating a fair few one-on-ones that Washington scoffed, in contrast.
Oggy, are you proposing that Gilbey creates a lot of chances that strikers miss? I don't remember that being the case. I think his assists ratio is a fair reflection of his lack of creativity as a player.
I actually remember Morgan creating a fair few one-on-ones that Washington scoffed, in contrast.
Not specifically ...... my point was that 'assists' are a stat that doesn't tell the full story of a player's goal chance creation. How can it when so many chances are wasted, typically only 1 goal is scored from every 3 chances created.
Another point is that the assists stats rely on the ability and efficiency of the player given the goalscoring opportunity. How valuable is a statistic for one player that depends on another player doing his own job effectively?
In Gilbey's case (and Morgan's) no doubt they have directly created goal scoring chances, subsequently missed. None of these were counted or credited. But maybe they also played a key role?
A player can play a 'key role' in a goalscoring opportunity ...... the assist that provides the assist, if you like? Certain players consistantly contribute this ability. Without that contribution the goalscoring chance is not even created. That's barely recognised and certainly not counted in stastics.
Back to Gilbey: we've seen him put in some quality performances and he's had some stinkers. I get that a lot of people don't like the player, but it's down to his manager's percepton as to whether he is following the game plan and effective.
In anycase, if a player doesn't fit the system he doesn't get used.
He had a spell when Jacko first took over where he was everywhere and close to being unplayable for his opposite number. That spell was sandwiched by two very long spells of him going missing in games which is something I dont ever look kindly on. The final nail for me was him blatantly getting himself sent off so he didn't have to play at plough Lane as an ex MK franchise player. Told me all I need to know about his character. Jog him on
Unless you’re privy to more information, that’s a pretty big leap you’ve made there.
Getting sent off for those two stupid tackles was unforgivable, but stating as fact that it was because he didn’t want to play at plough lane is ludicrous. Adding 2+2 and getting 5 imo.
He had a spell when Jacko first took over where he was everywhere and close to being unplayable for his opposite number. That spell was sandwiched by two very long spells of him going missing in games which is something I dont ever look kindly on. The final nail for me was him blatantly getting himself sent off so he didn't have to play at plough Lane as an ex MK franchise player. Told me all I need to know about his character. Jog him on
Unless you’re privy to more information, that’s a pretty big leap you’ve made there.
Getting sent off for those two stupid tackles was unforgivable, but stating as fact that it was because he didn’t want to play at plough lane is ludicrous. Adding 2+2 and getting 5 imo.
Probably about as ludicrous as suggesting that Danny Mills got himself sent off just so he could spend Christmas with his family?
He had a spell when Jacko first took over where he was everywhere and close to being unplayable for his opposite number. That spell was sandwiched by two very long spells of him going missing in games which is something I dont ever look kindly on. The final nail for me was him blatantly getting himself sent off so he didn't have to play at plough Lane as an ex MK franchise player. Told me all I need to know about his character. Jog him on
Unless you’re privy to more information, that’s a pretty big leap you’ve made there.
Getting sent off for those two stupid tackles was unforgivable, but stating as fact that it was because he didn’t want to play at plough lane is ludicrous. Adding 2+2 and getting 5 imo.
Probably about as ludicrous as suggesting that Danny Mills got himself sent off just so he could spend Christmas with his family?
So far, we’ve not had a decent pre season / start to a season with Gilbey. Injured in his first season early doors. Covid in season two. id like to see him start if we can keep him fit from the beginning.
Morgan looks to get on the ball in the attacking third and play progressive passes. He wants the ball in dangerous areas, and he has not inconsiderable touch and vision. Yeah, he can look ineffectual for games at a time, but there's a quality footballer in there somewhere. Of course, we don't need to choose between him and Gilbey - we can choose neither. But I reckon I know who Garner is going to want more
I think you will find Morgan plays the backwards more often than forwards.
It’s imperative we keep Gilbey, we need to base all our recruitment around a system that involves him pulling the strings. In my near 50 years supporting Charlton he is without doubt the best player to have pulled on the shirt in that time. Letting him leave would be suicidal.
He had a spell when Jacko first took over where he was everywhere and close to being unplayable for his opposite number. That spell was sandwiched by two very long spells of him going missing in games which is something I dont ever look kindly on. The final nail for me was him blatantly getting himself sent off so he didn't have to play at plough Lane as an ex MK franchise player. Told me all I need to know about his character. Jog him on
Unless you’re privy to more information, that’s a pretty big leap you’ve made there.
Getting sent off for those two stupid tackles was unforgivable, but stating as fact that it was because he didn’t want to play at plough lane is ludicrous. Adding 2+2 and getting 5 imo.
Probably about as ludicrous as suggesting that Danny Mills got himself sent off just so he could spend Christmas with his family?
Morgan looks to get on the ball in the attacking third and play progressive passes. He wants the ball in dangerous areas, and he has not inconsiderable touch and vision. Yeah, he can look ineffectual for games at a time, but there's a quality footballer in there somewhere. Of course, we don't need to choose between him and Gilbey - we can choose neither. But I reckon I know who Garner is going to want more
Remember Bowyer saying Morgan does the creative stuff but loses concentration on the defensive side of his game, forgetting to track his opponent, etc.
As we all should know, 90% of a player's game is played without the ball - if a player is not doing his off ball jobs, then a team mate has to compensate and compromise his own offball job ...... and the team shape, gameplan and overall performance suffers too.
Okay, Claus Jensen wasn't keen on the grunt side of his role either, so Curbs brought Kish in to do that for him. But today, that would be a luxury we can't afford.
It's no co-incidence perhaps, that there's been little demand for League clubs to take Albie on loan.
Jensen didn’t tackle but he worked he worked hard off the ball - he wouldn’t have survived in that team if he hadn’t .
Kishishev rarely played central midfield with Jensen.
As much as I think Morgan has talent, please don’t obliquely make comparisons with Claus !
Comments
Something along those lines.
As we all should know, 90% of a player's game is played without the ball - if a player is not doing his off ball jobs, then a team mate has to compensate and compromise his own offball job ...... and the team shape, gameplan and overall performance suffers too.
Okay, Claus Jensen wasn't keen on the grunt side of his role either, so Curbs brought Kish in to do that for him.
But today, that would be a luxury we can't afford.
It's no co-incidence perhaps, that there's been little demand for League clubs to take Albie on loan.
7 assists versus 1 despite playing fewer games. ONE assist by Gilbey in 39 games, that's the same number as Souare.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/charlton-athletic/top-scorers/assists
Gilbey only scoring 2 goals versus 1, despite being allegedly the box to player that you'd expect to get into the box.
But without context they never do.
"Assists" is a prime example ........ an assist is only credited where the striker takes the chance.
What's a striker's conversion rate? Typically averages at 1-in-3 or worse.
If the chance is missed, the assist is not credited, of course. What about the other 2-in-3 chances?
The chance has been created, but no credit given or counted.
'Assists' must be the most over-rated and useless stat of all players' statistics.
If you going to have a more purposeful stat, then surely it must be counting chances created?
Now that would give a more accurate picture of a player's creative contribution.
How can it when so many chances are wasted, typically only 1 goal is scored from every 3 chances created.
Another point is that the assists stats rely on the ability and efficiency of the player given the goalscoring opportunity.
How valuable is a statistic for one player that depends on another player doing his own job effectively?
In Gilbey's case (and Morgan's) no doubt they have directly created goal scoring chances, subsequently missed.
None of these were counted or credited. But maybe they also played a key role?
A player can play a 'key role' in a goalscoring opportunity ...... the assist that provides the assist, if you like?
Certain players consistantly contribute this ability. Without that contribution the goalscoring chance is not even created.
That's barely recognised and certainly not counted in stastics.
Back to Gilbey: we've seen him put in some quality performances and he's had some stinkers.
I get that a lot of people don't like the player, but it's down to his manager's percepton as to whether he is following the game plan and effective.
In anycase, if a player doesn't fit the system he doesn't get used.
Injured in his first season early doors. Covid in season two.
id like to see him start if we can keep him fit from the beginning.