Charlton v Plymouth (FA Cup R1) | Saturday 7th November 2020 | Post Match Thread

killerandflash

TellyTubby said:

A rare treat, listened to live commentary thanks to BBC Radio Devon.

The commentary team started off by saying this was the glamour tie of the round and bigged us up muchly. 

As the game progressed they thought that we looked a team of individuals with Maddison being a great player but he was totally disinterested in defending when we were not in possession. This largely allowed Argyle to boss midfield. 

They also said that Argyle played much better as a unit. Not surprising really considering the number of changes we made. They weren't impressed with Maynard-Brewer btw. 

At the end they did say that we have a tremendous squad and Charlton fans should look forward to promotion this season. 

Confused by why they weren’t impressed with AMB, he looked fine to me

PaddyP17

Always disappointing to go out of the FA Cup, but I understand Bowyer's viewpoint. Unfortunately, the fact he's not that fussed has meant that I'm feeling less fussed than I should. I wish we did care about the Cup.

We looked in various stages of match fitness and togetherness - insofar as we were somewhat rusty and somewhat disjointed. Maddison is incredibly creative but he does not look fit; Williams didn't quite seem to be on the same wavelength as many of the others; Levitt was timid (with a few nice moments eventually); Aneke was alright; Morgan and Forster-Caskey were also alright.

Barker was the brightest spot in the defence, while Matthews and Inniss were generally fine: Purrington is not as good as Maatsen, obviously. I think we were hamstrung by a lack of centre-backs who were comfortable on the ball, and the relative unfamiliarity coursing through this team.

For their part, Plymouth were better, but not by so much that I can sit here and accept the result. For the strength of team we had, we should have asked more questions.

But... well, there we have it. I wish I wasn't apathetic but there we go.

Oggy Red

ForeverAddickted said:

Oggy Red said:

FishCostaFortune said:

One thing I will say is I feel like I've seen enough of 4-3-3 to think it's not a viable option for us. Prefer us with 2 up top. 

I see Bowyer's 4-3-3 set up as a vehicle to accomodate Doughty, where he can use his pace and penetration to get behind defences.
We haven't got him available for a long while.

Perhaps Smyth can play his role to an extent. Or it's a position perhaps for a match fit Maddison.
But Williams wide, nope ..... play him where he can do damage centrally  in that '10' role, behind the strikers.

Doesnt Williams play in that 4-3-3 type role for Wales though?

Maybe ..... but much would depend on their tactics, combinations and  dynamics of players - which no doubt is different from our 4-3-3 set up.

And anyway, in his last Wales appearance as a late sub, in which he scored ....... Giggs said he played Williams as a 'false 9'.

What's a 'false 9'? Could you define it as a deep lying centre forward, dropping back and moving forward ...... or is it a '10' moving forward and dropping back, but  with no given striker tasked with playing in front of him?

IMO not really a great deal of difference. It certainly isn't a winger or the wide role that Bowyer plays him in at Charlton, where Williams seems to disappear.

Killarahales

I think LB’s attitude to the Cups can’t help feeding through to the players, affecting the team performance. I think he’s right, by the way, particularly this year and in the current crisis. Every additional year in League 1, especially with the salary cap, diminishes us, and we desperately need to get out this season. In LB (and SG) we trust. As far as the game goes, I think Maddison deserves the benefit of the doubt, if anything he was trying too hard to impress, but as an individual, not for the team. 

AndyG

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

cafcmatt1985

was very poor yesterday , wish bowyer said how he felt before hand , would rather have given £10 to a local charity rather than watching such a poor performance, barker was pretty good at the back but going forward we were terrible , final ball was consistently poor time and time again , happy i know not to bother watching tuesdays game as said he don't care , would much rather bows play williams/aneke/maddison tuesday to try and get some form into them , but will prob be under 23/18 players mostly

Oggy Red

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

AndyG

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

Yes totally agree with that. So if you cant get him in the team to start in his position then I would rather not start him at all. 

cafcfan1990

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

Must have been out that day

southamptonaddick

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

The only player who should be playing in one position only is a goalkeeper.

Outfield players should be able to play in various positions. Not every position obviously for instance you wouldn't play the likes of Williams at centre back but players should be able to play or fill in when and where required.

The likes of Williams is not a youngster just starting out he's an experienced professional who should be able to adapt. It may not be there favoured position but they should still be effective.   

Cafc43v3r

cafcfan1990 said:

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

Must have been out that day

You mean the 1st 3 months of last season? When was pretty much the only time he has had a run in the side, injury free and playing as a 10.  He was outstanding. 

Since then it's been stop stat through injury, being played out of position or Bowyer playing McGeady ahead of him. 

masicat

Giggs said the only way to get something out of Williams is to give him a clip round the ear.
Oh no, sorry, that wasn’t Williams 

JamesSeed

We were pretty awful before the changes, pretty decent after. Vennings looks very good, and Washington impressed as we're coming to expect.
I'd like to see us have a proper go at the FA Cup when we're back in the Championship so long as we have a competitive squad, which I think we will have under Sandgaard. Of course there's not much chance of winning it against the top Premier League teams, but there might be some fun along the way, and some decent away trips.

Covered End

killerandflash said:

TellyTubby said:

A rare treat, listened to live commentary thanks to BBC Radio Devon.

The commentary team started off by saying this was the glamour tie of the round and bigged us up muchly. 

As the game progressed they thought that we looked a team of individuals with Maddison being a great player but he was totally disinterested in defending when we were not in possession. This largely allowed Argyle to boss midfield. 

They also said that Argyle played much better as a unit. Not surprising really considering the number of changes we made. They weren't impressed with Maynard-Brewer btw. 

At the end they did say that we have a tremendous squad and Charlton fans should look forward to promotion this season. 

Confused by why they weren’t impressed with AMB, he looked fine to me

AMB was impressive.

Covered End

I was happy with that.
AMB was impressive.
Matthews looked/got fitter.
Barker was excellent and you know he can be relied upon.
Inniss & Purrington were poorish.
Williams & JFC were their usual poor standard. But Williams actually played a full game!
Levitt was shocking first 15 & improved, but is clearly not ready.
Maddison was very rusty, but has the ability to be a stand out player & got first game time since March.
Morgan did ok.
Chucks was poor, but he was ploughing a lone farrow & he did manage 60 mins.

So plenty of positives for me.
The players that we know rarely perform didn't, so Bowyer must now know his first 11.
Some players improved their fitness.
No injuries and we lost

cafcfan1990

Cafc43v3r said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

Must have been out that day

You mean the 1st 3 months of last season? When was pretty much the only time he has had a run in the side, injury free and playing as a 10.  He was outstanding. 

Since then it's been stop stat through injury, being played out of position or Bowyer playing McGeady ahead of him. 

Says it all

Cafc43v3r

cafcfan1990 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

Must have been out that day

You mean the 1st 3 months of last season? When was pretty much the only time he has had a run in the side, injury free and playing as a 10.  He was outstanding. 

Since then it's been stop stat through injury, being played out of position or Bowyer playing McGeady ahead of him. 

Says it all

But doesn't reflect his pre injury form though did it? 

grumpyaddick

For a moment I had forgotten about McGeady. 

Thanks for the memory. 

cafcfan1990

Cafc43v3r said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

Must have been out that day

You mean the 1st 3 months of last season? When was pretty much the only time he has had a run in the side, injury free and playing as a 10.  He was outstanding. 

Since then it's been stop stat through injury, being played out of position or Bowyer playing McGeady ahead of him. 

Says it all

But doesn't reflect his pre injury form though did it? 

To be honest pal my original comment was clearly said as a joke. Having said that Williams hasn’t done enough as a Charlton player, something Bows evidently agrees with. 

JamesSeed

cafcfan1990 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

Must have been out that day

You mean the 1st 3 months of last season? When was pretty much the only time he has had a run in the side, injury free and playing as a 10.  He was outstanding. 

Since then it's been stop stat through injury, being played out of position or Bowyer playing McGeady ahead of him. 

Says it all

But doesn't reflect his pre injury form though did it? 

To be honest pal my original comment was clearly said as a joke. Having said that Williams hasn’t done enough as a Charlton player, something Bows evidently agrees with. 

He scored the other day, and has generally looked more threatening recently. Bit odd to be turning on him right now isn’t it?

cafcfan1990

JamesSeed said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

Must have been out that day

You mean the 1st 3 months of last season? When was pretty much the only time he has had a run in the side, injury free and playing as a 10.  He was outstanding. 

Since then it's been stop stat through injury, being played out of position or Bowyer playing McGeady ahead of him. 

Says it all

But doesn't reflect his pre injury form though did it? 

To be honest pal my original comment was clearly said as a joke. Having said that Williams hasn’t done enough as a Charlton player, something Bows evidently agrees with. 

He scored the other day, and has generally looked more threatening recently. Bit odd to be turning on him right now isn’t it?

Bloody hell was one joke you miserable git, "turning on him" ffs

ForeverAddickted

.

CAFCTrev

The Durex Cup: We really want you to come....to every game! 

grumpyaddick

addick1956 said:

southamptonaddick said:

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

The only player who should be playing in one position only is a goalkeeper.

Outfield players should be able to play in various positions. Not every position obviously for instance you wouldn't play the likes of Williams at centre back but players should be able to play or fill in when and where required.

The likes of Williams is not a youngster just starting out he's an experienced professional who should be able to adapt. It may not be there favoured position but they should still be effective.   

We have had outfield players who can play in goal or in defence, we have had payers like John Hewie who could play almost anywhere with good account . Now we have players who can seemingly kick with one foot only. How long before we wonder at a player because he can actual stand up and walk. 

Has football  become so technical that the exponents are so expert in one position they are useless anywhere else on the park.

It has become  so technical that it is quite boring to watch now as teams seek only to retain the ball and forget the objective,  attack the other goal.

Totally agree.

For all the technical prowess and pace witnessed in the modern game, many young players can't trap, tackle, volley, half-volley, control the ball with their chest, use their weaker foot, or head the bloody football.

All basic stuff we were taught as tots in the old days. 

Now, any of those skills merit multiple action replays and hours of monologue from cardigan-wearing pundits. 

How I miss the perfectly timed and well executed sliding tackle; the type where the defender emerges with the ball glued to his boot and the attacking player is buried nose down in the mud near the corner flag...exquisite!

Solidgone

Although I agree that we need to just think about promotion and just get out of these cup matches I still thought Bowyer would use these cup matches to gel the team. After all, they have only just been thrown together. I’ve no idea what he says to the team when before they go out to play but I guess there’s little emphasis on winning. If that’s the case, he shouldn’t really have a pop in the media at Madison given that it was his first full game. 

onwards and upperwards. 

Dazzler21

Solidgone said:

Although I agree that we need to just think about promotion and just get out of these cup matches I still thought Bowyer would use these cup matches to gel the team. After all, they have only just been thrown together. I’ve no idea what he says to the team when before they go out to play but I guess there’s little emphasis on winning. If that’s the case, he shouldn’t really have a pop in the media at Madison given that it was his first full game. 

onwards and upperwards. 

We know now that he's not a hand round the shoulder type unless you're Josh Cullen. 

I think he's doing great, but probably needs to work on his empathy a bit. 

LenGlover

grumpyaddick said:

addick1956 said:

southamptonaddick said:

Oggy Red said:

AndyG said:

It is getting a bit predictable with JW. His performances for us are mostly toothless he nearly always flatters to deceive

To get the best out of a player, invariably you have to play him in his own specialist position.
That's the position he's spent all his career being trained to specialise in. It's what he does best.

Williams is a central attacking midfielder, best played just behind the strikers - that's where he's effective and causes the most damage.
Play him out wide, he just gets lost. 

The only player who should be playing in one position only is a goalkeeper.

Outfield players should be able to play in various positions. Not every position obviously for instance you wouldn't play the likes of Williams at centre back but players should be able to play or fill in when and where required.

The likes of Williams is not a youngster just starting out he's an experienced professional who should be able to adapt. It may not be there favoured position but they should still be effective.   

We have had outfield players who can play in goal or in defence, we have had payers like John Hewie who could play almost anywhere with good account . Now we have players who can seemingly kick with one foot only. How long before we wonder at a player because he can actual stand up and walk. 

Has football  become so technical that the exponents are so expert in one position they are useless anywhere else on the park.

It has become  so technical that it is quite boring to watch now as teams seek only to retain the ball and forget the objective,  attack the other goal.

Totally agree.

For all the technical prowess and pace witnessed in the modern game, many young players can't trap, tackle, volley, half-volley, control the ball with their chest, use their weaker foot, or head the bloody football.

All basic stuff we were taught as tots in the old days. 

Now, any of those skills merit multiple action replays and hours of monologue from cardigan-wearing pundits. 

How I miss the perfectly timed and well executed sliding tackle; the type where the defender emerges with the ball glued to his boot and the attacking player is buried nose down in the mud near the corner flag...exquisite!

Harsh on @Henry Irving I quite like his posts.