I really get the feeling that some of our fan base are actually Lee Bowyer fans first and only support Charlton as he is our manager.
I SUPPORT CHARLTON , I am not a signed up member of the LB love in. I don’t want him sacked, I want him to make Charlton successful. If he is not capable of doing that, then he goes. I am not attached to him in some big loyalty love in the way some appear to be. He is being very well paid to do this job, in the last couple of months, it’s been a disaster. Either fix it, or go...... it’s that simple.
I hope today is the first step on him fixing it.
No disrespect, but you do come across as an arrogant dickhead. I doubt if there is anyone on this site that is not first and foremost a Charlton fan.
The good news is you haven’t upset anyone because of that.
I really get the feeling that some of our fan base are actually Lee Bowyer fans first and only support Charlton as he is our manager.
I SUPPORT CHARLTON , I am not a signed up member of the LB love in. I don’t want him sacked, I want him to make Charlton successful. If he is not capable of doing that, then he goes. I am not attached to him in some big loyalty love in the way some appear to be. He is being very well paid to do this job, in the last couple of months, it’s been a disaster. Either fix it, or go...... it’s that simple.
I hope today is the first step on him fixing it.
No disrespect, but you do come across as an arrogant dickhead. I doubt if there is anyone on this site that is not first and foremost a Charlton fan.
The good news is you haven’t upset anyone because of that.
Haha the irony
You are obviously someone who hopes we lose so you can dig out the manager. All becomes clear.
To be fair a lot of us can probably dickheads on here at times... I know I certainly can which is why I'm trying to be more relaxed after Hull
Its difficult though as apart from Raplh's opening line he's right, we all just want Charlton to do well at the end of the day
See I think part of the sentiment of Ralph's comment is right. Although I am not sure if I took it the way he ment it.
It's probably true for all sets of fans but we seem to have a significant number of fans (by no means a majority BTW) that give the impression they would rather be less successful with the "right kind of chaps" than more successful with anyone else. That covers the whole club, not just the football management, the players and the rest of the staff.
Conversely they are people that would happily been run by the biggest wan**ers in the world if it guarantees success.
Most people, from my experience are somewhere in between but this subject, like some discussions on past and present players, seems to be influenced by where you position yourself between those extreams.
The problem is a number of fans know Bowyer has lost the dressing room. And then there are those that don't want to know. That doesn't mean we won't still win games, we have a decent squad for this level, but it takes something away from our ability to do so which will probably be the thing most likely to keep us in this crap league.
The thing that is unfair is the suggestion it is anything personal against the manager. I have spoken to a few posters privately and they want Bowyer to succeed as much as any other supporter. For me, Charlton is more important than any manager. If you believe he is holding Charlton back I don't see how you can want him to continue. If you honestly believe he isn't, fair enough.
The problem is a number of fans know Bowyer has lost the dressing room.
Has he though? Like many others, I’ve criticised Bowyer and at least some of that is justified. I don’t see anyway back from losing a dressing room which is why I thought his time was running out. There’s no doubt he’s alienated and upset a few but the second half fight back changed a mind a bit. As long as the players are battling for him I want him to stay.
The problem is a number of fans know Bowyer has lost the dressing room.
Has he though? Like many others, I’ve criticised Bowyer and at least some of that is justified. I don’t see anyway back from losing a dressing room which is why I thought his time was running out. There’s no doubt he’s alienated and upset a few but the second half fight back changed a mind a bit. As long as the players are battling for him I want him to stay.
I wonder, and obviously I am speculating, if he held his hands up at half time and the players reacted to that. Although the improvement happened almost straight after the 3rd when he changed formation, but that could have had the same impact.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
Dont think it helps now we've got Alex Gilbey potentially talking to his mate saying that Bowyer doesnt have a clue, whilst a new signing in Ronnie Schwartz is equally talking to the media saying that Bowyer is good tactically... Certainly muddies the water
Of course the latter could very well be Sandgaard planting things to try and quash the "rumours", but if so that could disastrously backfire
I think fans in general (probably "helped" by media coverage) see "losing the dressing room" as this catastrophic disaster that cannot possibly be redeemed. In the real world, no doubt there are times when managers do fall out with certain players (even groups of players) but not so much so they can't turn it around.
Where exactly Bowyer is on this scale right now we just don't know - either way.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
How would you explain that second half performance against Rochdale then Mutts? The intensity, and desire that each player played with does not indicate a lost dressing room. They could have quiet easily folded considering how woeful we have been in the during the last 10 games.
Not sure where that's been the last stretch of games, but will be interesting to see how they respond today. Another limp performance and perhaps my mind will change.
True as well @thenewbie (not quoting you as the function appears messed up enough) - Certainly not discrediting what J Block, OoohAah and others say about losing the dressing room...
But then you also have that conversation someone had with Maddison when he said Bowyer's issue was the fact he needed to find some consistency with his selections (?)
Dont think it helps now we've got Alex Gilbey potentially talking to his mate saying that Bowyer doesnt have a clue, whilst a new signing in Ronnie Schwartz is equally talking to the media saying that Bowyer is good tactically... Certainly muddies the water
Of course the latter could very well be Sandgaard planting things to try and quash the "rumours", but if so that could disastrously backfire
Since Rubbershoes came in as club PR I have noticed that our players when interviewed by the club often drop a phrase in which fits a certain narrative of the time... Youngsters/loaners etc always stating how much they have been improved by their time at the club became a very common theme which was never as pronounced previously for example. Nothing wrong with it, a club should push its own narrative but it makes me a little sceptical about the timing of Schwartz's words. Maybe unfair I know.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
How would you explain that second half performance against Rochdale then Mutts? The intensity, and desire that each player played with does not indicate a lost dressing room. They could have quiet easily folded considering how woeful we have been in the during the last 10 games.
Not sure where that's been the last stretch of games, but will be interesting to see how they respond today. Another limp performance and perhaps my mind will change.
I would use the word professionalism. Unlike many 'loyal' supporters on here, I believe we have a very strong squad of players for the level. Also, I said to my brother at half time that I didn't expect to lose as Rochdale were so poor defensively.
We can still win games because we have better players, but ultimately I know players are unhappy with him. It could come to a head at some point. Probably nearer the end of the season if nothing is done before it.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it.
Dont think it helps now we've got Alex Gilbey potentially talking to his mate saying that Bowyer doesnt have a clue, whilst a new signing in Ronnie Schwartz is equally talking to the media saying that Bowyer is good tactically... Certainly muddies the water
Of course the latter could very well be Sandgaard planting things to try and quash the "rumours", but if so that could disastrously backfire
Since Rubbershoes came in as club PR I have noticed that our players when interviewed by the club often drop a phrase in which fits a certain narrative of the time... Youngsters/loaners etc always stating how much they have been improved by their time at the club became a very common theme which was never as pronounced previously for example. Nothing wrong with it, a club should push its own narrative but it makes me a little sceptical about the timing of Schwartz's words. Maybe unfair I know.
No I completely agree with you... Its very strange timing given the fact he's only been around for a week (?), would argue its a bit soon for him to be making that type of assessment as well.
Only thing I doubt is whether the club would be worried about it creating further divisions amongst the players... You'd have a group quietly opposing Bowyer at the moment (they may well have spoken with TS), then this new fella comes in and publicly almost calls them liars
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
How would you explain that second half performance against Rochdale then Mutts? The intensity, and desire that each player played with does not indicate a lost dressing room. They could have quiet easily folded considering how woeful we have been in the during the last 10 games.
Not sure where that's been the last stretch of games, but will be interesting to see how they respond today. Another limp performance and perhaps my mind will change.
It was the 1st time, I think, publicly Bowyer held his hands up that HE got it wrong.
Compare it to Hull where he set his team up for a system they didn't play and then didn't change it.
It looks, to me, like the players felt liberated when he made that change.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
How would you explain that second half performance against Rochdale then Mutts? The intensity, and desire that each player played with does not indicate a lost dressing room. They could have quiet easily folded considering how woeful we have been in the during the last 10 games.
Not sure where that's been the last stretch of games, but will be interesting to see how they respond today. Another limp performance and perhaps my mind will change.
It was the 1st time, I think, publicly Bowyer held his hands up that HE got it wrong.
Compare it to Hull where he set his team up for a system they didn't play and then didn't change it.
It looks, to me, like the players felt liberated when he made that change.
Hopefully it was sort of the monkey on everyone's back... Now it's happened be nice to see a chain of events in terms of performances
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it.
Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it.
Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). I don't know who the players Watt is referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
How would you explain that second half performance against Rochdale then Mutts? The intensity, and desire that each player played with does not indicate a lost dressing room. They could have quiet easily folded considering how woeful we have been in the during the last 10 games.
Not sure where that's been the last stretch of games, but will be interesting to see how they respond today. Another limp performance and perhaps my mind will change.
It was the 1st time, I think, publicly Bowyer held his hands up that HE got it wrong.
Compare it to Hull where he set his team up for a system they didn't play and then didn't change it.
It looks, to me, like the players felt liberated when he made that change.
Hopefully it was sort of the monkey on everyone's back... Now it's happened be nice to see a chain of events in terms of performances
Yes, but didn't he infer more than one. Anyway if he is to be believed, that is at least three.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it.
Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.
Sorry I didn't realise you knew a player, I thought you was just speculating. To be honest though players will probably feel differently anyway. Maddison for example is probably going to be a lot more scathing of Bowyer than someone like Pratley would be. Obviously it's more likely to be truthful if it's being repeated by different players. I can only go on the evidence I witness which is that I thought he had lost the dressing room and then Tuesday showed that might not be true. Performances over the next few weeks will speak volumes either way.
I don’t have a clue if Bowyer has “lost the dressing room” but if he has then it’s going to be abundantly clear later today. Not an easy away game and the Charlton players are going to have to dig in to get anything. Players going through the motions will be soon found out by Rovers.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it.
Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.
So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it.
Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.
So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.
No. A good manager would reclaim the dressing room by winning back his players trust.
Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation.
Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it.
Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.
So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.
No. A good manager would reclaim the dressing room by winning back his players trust.
F*** them, footballers are only in it for their own personal gain.
Comments
It's probably true for all sets of fans but we seem to have a significant number of fans (by no means a majority BTW) that give the impression they would rather be less successful with the "right kind of chaps" than more successful with anyone else. That covers the whole club, not just the football management, the players and the rest of the staff.
Conversely they are people that would happily been run by the biggest wan**ers in the world if it guarantees success.
Most people, from my experience are somewhere in between but this subject, like some discussions on past and present players, seems to be influenced by where you position yourself between those extreams.
The thing that is unfair is the suggestion it is anything personal against the manager. I have spoken to a few posters privately and they want Bowyer to succeed as much as any other supporter. For me, Charlton is more important than any manager. If you believe he is holding Charlton back I don't see how you can want him to continue. If you honestly believe he isn't, fair enough.
Of course the latter could very well be Sandgaard planting things to try and quash the "rumours", but if so that could disastrously backfire
Not sure where that's been the last stretch of games, but will be interesting to see how they respond today. Another limp performance and perhaps my mind will change.
But then you also have that conversation someone had with Maddison when he said Bowyer's issue was the fact he needed to find some consistency with his selections (?)
We can still win games because we have better players, but ultimately I know players are unhappy with him. It could come to a head at some point. Probably nearer the end of the season if nothing is done before it.
Only thing I doubt is whether the club would be worried about it creating further divisions amongst the players... You'd have a group quietly opposing Bowyer at the moment (they may well have spoken with TS), then this new fella comes in and publicly almost calls them liars
I'd love that as I really don't want Lee the nutter back ever again....
I'm still not sure if if he can take us up but I reckon TS has a breaking point and the next few games will be telling.
Compare it to Hull where he set his team up for a system they didn't play and then didn't change it.
It looks, to me, like the players felt liberated when he made that change.
So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.
F*** them, footballers are only in it for their own personal gain.