I'll repeat AGAIN that I've been vocal that I don't believe Bowyer is the man to take us forward long term, but I hope he proves the doubters wrong & yesterday was a good performance that EVERYONE should be pleased with.
I Can't believe this bitching & point scoring is still going on today. Starting to find this thread really sad & can't believe it appears to be more toxic after a victory. Just enjoy the win & performance guys
You have to look at the reasons behind what J Block reported rather than try to undermine him. These were twofold. Over complex formations without sufficient time in training to perfect them and the unprofessional treatment of players. Are these two major issues that far fetched? If Bowyer has addressed them, then of course there will be improvements. If players he has wronged have left, that will help too but I give up if you think these have been good things.
We are still playing catch up but have to hope the penny has dropped.
I'll repeat AGAIN that I've been vocal that I don't believe Bowyer is the man to take us forward long term, but I hope he proves the doubters wrong & yesterday was a good performance that EVERYONE should be pleased with.
I Can't believe this bitching & point scoring is still going on today. Starting to find this thread really sad & can't believe it appears to be more toxic after a victory. Just enjoy the win & performance guys
I think bowyers character probably naturally warms to doubters and he will go an extra mile to attempt to prove people wrong.
You have to look at the reasons behind what J Block reported rather than try to undermine him. These were twofold. Over complex formations without sufficient time in training to perfect them and the unprofessional treatment of players. Are these two major issues that far fetched? If Bowyer has addressed them, then of course there will be improvements. If players he has wronged have left, that will help too but I give up if you think these have been good things.
We are still playing catch up but have to hope the penny has dropped.
I'm not trying to undermine J Block, I'm undecided, which is why I was looking for some clarity, from one of the fans who said they were "in the know".
Are the players still against or have they departed/no longer against Bowyer?
I'm an LB fan and want him to do well here. But as i have said before i think he fell into a trap of overthinking things. With the team we have we shouldn't be adapting to 90% of the teams in this league. We should play our own game and let them worry about adapting to try and stop us. We are head and shoulders above most teams in this league imo and the bad results we have had lately were down to us changing our style of play to nullify the opposition. Sod that it's not required this year play our own game and we get promoted it's that simple imo. Next year might be different and then we can worry about adapting to other teams that have more quality
I'm an LB fan and want him to do well here. But as i have said before i think he fell into a trap of overthinking things. With the team we have we shouldn't be adapting to 90% of the teams in this league. We should play our own game and let them worry about adapting to try and stop us. We are head and shoulders above most teams in this league imo and the bad results we have had lately were down to us changing our style of play to nullify the opposition. Sod that it's not required this year play our own game and we get promoted it's that simple imo. Next year might be different and then we can worry about adapting to other teams that have more quality
That's a valid point.
Bowyer was probably very used to always overly preparing against the opposition last season.
That continuously needed defensive stubborn discipline probably hasn't left his system yet, but it will. The experience altered his methods and it's not as necessary this year.
I think the idea that Bowyer's current/recent struggles are a hangover from the last season is a valid one. It was a season where we very much were the underdogs more often than not and having that mindset for so long is surely quite hard to shake.
On the other hand, it does need shaking. We're maybe not the biggest of big fish in league one but we're hardly tiddlers either and perpetuating the belief that we are is counterproductive. In this respect, it seems to tie in with Sandgaard's recent comments - he's not expecting us to steamroller the league but there is a certain level he's fully expecting to reach.
Games like this show that the scrappy, take no prisoners Bowyer is still in there somewhere. For my own part, I've never actually particularly WANTED him to leave/get fired. But that's because I admit to having wanted to see more performances like yesterday's and was unsure if he still had it in him to do. If that is unfair on my part, I'll hold my hands up to it but I certainly don't think I'm alone in it.
It's entirely hypothetical what might have happened if Bowyer had been sacked a few weeks ago. We could have gone on a better run, the same run or a worse run. We could have had Paul Cook as manager, the Cowley brothers, Nigel Pearson or Denmark's answer to Karel Fraeye...
It's the same with Chelsea. Would they have had the same results if they'd kept Lampard?
Has this thread run its course? Clearly the fanbase are split over Bowyer but I think most of our questions will be answered by the end of the month. Four games against teams below us that "on paper" you should be winning if you're a top team in this league. I know Hull got beaten by Burton over the weekend which just shows how unpredictable this league and football in general can be. Four wins to finish the month will see us in a strong position, regardless of games played/other teams awaiting to play games. We have something to build on now with a clean sheet and a decent performance on Saturday and it's down to Bowyer and the team to kick on from here and finish the season strongly. With three of our remaining games this month at home I fully expect twelve points but a minimum of ten!
Most LB doubters will be more than happy to be proved wrong - TS has decided to persevere with him so it's up to Lee to deliver. If our recent form continues to the end of the season then it would be hard to make a case for Lee.
Most LB doubters will be more than happy to be proved wrong - TS has decided to persevere with him so it's up to Lee to deliver. If our recent form continues to the end of the season then it would be hard to make a case for Lee.
Most LB doubters will be more than happy to be proved wrong - TS has decided to persevere with him so it's up to Lee to deliver. If our recent form continues to the end of the season then it would be hard to make a case for Lee.
If we accept that Bowyer is going to be given time and faith to see what he can do, then equally Sandgaard gets the same.
Certainly he (Sandgaard) is looking like he's a very canny operator on the business side of things and definitely has a plan for the club as a whole. Once he's happy with the infrastructure and running of the club hell turn his full attention to the team on the pitch - until then I think it's a waiting game.
The whole “where are the Bowyer in/out crowd” type comments quite common on social media after a game are becoming tedious.
I’m not “Bowyer out”, but I’m more along the lines of “I really want it to work under Bowyer, but can’t see it happening long term”. Thankfully it’s not my decision as to whether he stays, goes, who replaces him etc.
What I will say though is that a 2-0 win away at Rochdale doesn’t change my view on Bowyer for better or worse, because quite frankly, that’s a result we should be getting.
Where I’ll judge Bowyer is over a string of games or a period of time. Over the past year it hasn’t been good enough - and yes, I do put some of the Championship relegation on him.
If he gets to the end of the season, then so be it, it’s not as if the club is going to fold if we stay in League One for another season and we don’t go up.
But if we take the rose-tinted glasses off and stop talking about loyalty and the excuses - he hasn’t been good enough for about 12 months. Again - a win away at Rochdale doesn’t change that all of a sudden
I haven't got anything personal against Bowyer, I previously praised and supported him but think his management has been a disaster since the resumption from lockdown last season, I thought there was a window of opportunity where we could have got better management and a fresh start and increased our chances of promotion.
I am going to stop calling for his sacking for now, simply because I am pretty sure Sandgaard is giving him the season so there is no point and the potential for somebody else to have an impact diminishes as the number of games go down.
Also I have noticed that this good manager gone rogue has stopped slagging players/fans off publicly (it should not have happened in the first place) and seems to have stopped banging his head against a brick wall tactically (which has also been ridiculous). The team on Saturday seemed obvious and I said so before the game it was a good selection. I believe that if he carries on like this we could still get promoted because we do have a strong squad for the level.
Beyond that, I can't forget what I have seen. Something has been terribly wrong with the manager and I will always be looking for it to return. But if it doesn't maybe Bowyer has learned something and we can continue with him. For me, it will always be Charlton, Charlton, Charlton. Bowyer is there to bring success to Charlton and if that stops happening, why is he there?
Clean slate for me - did well to get us up, lots of mitigating circumstances for the last year - definitely some incorrect decisions along the way but nobody is perfect and certainly the baffling decision to not play williams and maddison at certain times appears to have been more about them not being in LB's future plans rather than a straight forward assessment of the game in front of us - the switich from an over defensive approach to a more balanced / attacking approach has satisfied my main gripe so as long as we don't revert to that, i'm happy and looking forward to our attempt at promotion - its not make or break in my book however as long as we are getting better and building.
The whole “where are the Bowyer in/out crowd” type comments quite common on social media after a game are becoming tedious.
I’m not “Bowyer out”, but I’m more along the lines of “I really want it to work under Bowyer, but can’t see it happening long term”. Thankfully it’s not my decision as to whether he stays, goes, who replaces him etc.
What I will say though is that a 2-0 win away at Rochdale doesn’t change my view on Bowyer for better or worse, because quite frankly, that’s a result we should be getting.
Where I’ll judge Bowyer is over a string of games or a period of time. Over the past year it hasn’t been good enough - and yes, I do put some of the Championship relegation on him.
If he gets to the end of the season, then so be it, it’s not as if the club is going to fold if we stay in League One for another season and we don’t go up.
But if we take the rose-tinted glasses off and stop talking about loyalty and the excuses - he hasn’t been good enough for about 12 months. Again - a win away at Rochdale doesn’t change that all of a sudden
I haven't got anything personal against Bowyer, I previously praised and supported him but think his management has been a disaster since the resumption from lockdown last season, I thought there was a window of opportunity where we could have got better management and a fresh start and increased our chances of promotion.
I am going to stop calling for his sacking for now, simply because I am pretty sure Sandgaard is giving him the season so there is no point and the potential for somebody else to have an impact diminishes as the number of games go down.
Also I have noticed that this good manager gone rogue has stopped slagging players/fans off publicly (it should not have happened in the first place) and seems to have stopped banging his head against a brick wall tactically (which has also been ridiculous). The team on Saturday seemed obvious and I said so before the game it was a good selection. I believe that if he carries on like this we could still get promoted because we do have a strong squad for the level.
Beyond that, I can't forget what I have seen. Something has been terribly wrong with the manager and I will always be looking for it to return. But if it doesn't maybe Bowyer has learned something and we can continue with him. For me, it will always be Charlton, Charlton, Charlton. Bowyer is there to bring success to Charlton and if that stops happening, why is he there?
Have you thought of setting up your own fans forum?😉
The whole “where are the Bowyer in/out crowd” type comments quite common on social media after a game are becoming tedious.
I’m not “Bowyer out”, but I’m more along the lines of “I really want it to work under Bowyer, but can’t see it happening long term”. Thankfully it’s not my decision as to whether he stays, goes, who replaces him etc.
What I will say though is that a 2-0 win away at Rochdale doesn’t change my view on Bowyer for better or worse, because quite frankly, that’s a result we should be getting.
Where I’ll judge Bowyer is over a string of games or a period of time. Over the past year it hasn’t been good enough - and yes, I do put some of the Championship relegation on him.
If he gets to the end of the season, then so be it, it’s not as if the club is going to fold if we stay in League One for another season and we don’t go up.
But if we take the rose-tinted glasses off and stop talking about loyalty and the excuses - he hasn’t been good enough for about 12 months. Again - a win away at Rochdale doesn’t change that all of a sudden
And while he obviously gets some of the credit for bringing in good players, most if not all managers in the division would have loved to have brought in players of the quality of Millar, Stockley, DJ, Schwartz and Smith in January. Getting better results because you have better players is to be expected
The whole “where are the Bowyer in/out crowd” type comments quite common on social media after a game are becoming tedious.
I’m not “Bowyer out”, but I’m more along the lines of “I really want it to work under Bowyer, but can’t see it happening long term”. Thankfully it’s not my decision as to whether he stays, goes, who replaces him etc.
What I will say though is that a 2-0 win away at Rochdale doesn’t change my view on Bowyer for better or worse, because quite frankly, that’s a result we should be getting.
Where I’ll judge Bowyer is over a string of games or a period of time. Over the past year it hasn’t been good enough - and yes, I do put some of the Championship relegation on him.
If he gets to the end of the season, then so be it, it’s not as if the club is going to fold if we stay in League One for another season and we don’t go up.
But if we take the rose-tinted glasses off and stop talking about loyalty and the excuses - he hasn’t been good enough for about 12 months. Again - a win away at Rochdale doesn’t change that all of a sudden
agree entirely.
Sorry, I'm going to argue the toss, if you count the 8 months under an embargo, with a limited squad with players walking out on their contracts, as a stick to beat him, then you are stretching.
Teams will perform in a lumpy way, the first couple of months of this season we were pretty good looking at the table, the last few months have been poor, but you're watching a league 1 team with a relatively inexperienced coaching team.
If we are in the eyes of some underperforming after a year of the club not being a complete basketcase, then pile in
The whole “where are the Bowyer in/out crowd” type comments quite common on social media after a game are becoming tedious.
I’m not “Bowyer out”, but I’m more along the lines of “I really want it to work under Bowyer, but can’t see it happening long term”. Thankfully it’s not my decision as to whether he stays, goes, who replaces him etc.
What I will say though is that a 2-0 win away at Rochdale doesn’t change my view on Bowyer for better or worse, because quite frankly, that’s a result we should be getting.
Where I’ll judge Bowyer is over a string of games or a period of time. Over the past year it hasn’t been good enough - and yes, I do put some of the Championship relegation on him.
If he gets to the end of the season, then so be it, it’s not as if the club is going to fold if we stay in League One for another season and we don’t go up.
But if we take the rose-tinted glasses off and stop talking about loyalty and the excuses - he hasn’t been good enough for about 12 months. Again - a win away at Rochdale doesn’t change that all of a sudden
And while he obviously gets some of the credit for bringing in good players, most if not all managers in the division would have loved to have brought in players of the quality of Millar, Stockley, DJ, Schwartz and Smith in January. Getting better results because you have better players is to be expected
But is not a guarantee.
Since the window closed we've had two very opposing performances.
Pompey we looked devoid of a plan or confidence, didn't press quick enough, looked like strangers and seemed to be lacking hunger. It felt like they could have scored on every attack.
Rochdale we had just been spanked by a promotion contender, we looked sharp & organised in the first half and pressed until 60 odd minutes had passed. We looked like we could have scored another 4 and it was a shame we didn't. We tired and they pushed back but we still never looked like conceding.
We need to see what happens on a game by game basis, but if we play like we did against Rochdale on Saturday then we will win comfortably again. If we play how we did against Portsmouth, we could at best hope for a scrappy 1-1.
Where I’ll judge Bowyer is over a string of games or a period of time. Over the past year it hasn’t been good enough - and yes, I do put some of the Championship relegation on him.
This is insane. Even Pep Guardiola would’ve struggled to keep us up.
I still think we've been on a terrible run. And I think the performances the past month have been shocking.
It's funny how we all see things in different ways.
In the past month, we've played 7 games, losing twice. Total: 11 points from 7 games.
We've actually won 3 out of the last 4 away games - and the game at Peterborough we surely should have picked up a point at least, if it wasn't for 2 individual mistakes late on - it's hard to legislate for that.
It's at home, where we've disappointed. But even against Rochdale, despite having to chase the game, we should have won after equalising, with clear chances missed. Same against Swindon. On another day, either of those games we would have won.
The Portsmouth game we were outgunned. Why? We were out thought and outfought. They were bigger, stronger and really wanted it. They had a gameplan that they made work. And we were set up poorly and played into their hands.
But 11 points in 7 games. It could and should have been better .... but then we're also a team in transition.
Comments
I Can't believe this bitching & point scoring is still going on today. Starting to find this thread really sad & can't believe it appears to be more toxic after a victory. Just enjoy the win & performance guys
We are still playing catch up but have to hope the penny has dropped.
I think bowyers character probably naturally warms to doubters and he will go an extra mile to attempt to prove people wrong.
Are the players still against or have they departed/no longer against Bowyer?
Bowyer was probably very used to always overly preparing against the opposition last season.
That continuously needed defensive stubborn discipline probably hasn't left his system yet, but it will.
The experience altered his methods and it's not as necessary this year.
Probably getting on the players backs.
I don't know. A vague possibility.
On the other hand, it does need shaking. We're maybe not the biggest of big fish in league one but we're hardly tiddlers either and perpetuating the belief that we are is counterproductive. In this respect, it seems to tie in with Sandgaard's recent comments - he's not expecting us to steamroller the league but there is a certain level he's fully expecting to reach.
Games like this show that the scrappy, take no prisoners Bowyer is still in there somewhere. For my own part, I've never actually particularly WANTED him to leave/get fired. But that's because I admit to having wanted to see more performances like yesterday's and was unsure if he still had it in him to do. If that is unfair on my part, I'll hold my hands up to it but I certainly don't think I'm alone in it.
It's the same with Chelsea. Would they have had the same results if they'd kept Lampard?
This thread very well may indicate it has.
Next season if a cap exists will be harder, but it's up to Sandgaard to communicate any plans if/when that problem is to affect us.
Certainly he (Sandgaard) is looking like he's a very canny operator on the business side of things and definitely has a plan for the club as a whole. Once he's happy with the infrastructure and running of the club hell turn his full attention to the team on the pitch - until then I think it's a waiting game.
I’m not “Bowyer out”, but I’m more along the lines of “I really want it to work under Bowyer, but can’t see it happening long term”. Thankfully it’s not my decision as to whether he stays, goes, who replaces him etc.
Where I’ll judge Bowyer is over a string of games or a period of time. Over the past year it hasn’t been good enough - and yes, I do put some of the Championship relegation on him.
I am going to stop calling for his sacking for now, simply because I am pretty sure Sandgaard is giving him the season so there is no point and the potential for somebody else to have an impact diminishes as the number of games go down.
Also I have noticed that this good manager gone rogue has stopped slagging players/fans off publicly (it should not have happened in the first place) and seems to have stopped banging his head against a brick wall tactically (which has also been ridiculous). The team on Saturday seemed obvious and I said so before the game it was a good selection. I believe that if he carries on like this we could still get promoted because we do have a strong squad for the level.
Beyond that, I can't forget what I have seen. Something has been terribly wrong with the manager and I will always be looking for it to return. But if it doesn't maybe Bowyer has learned something and we can continue with him. For me, it will always be Charlton, Charlton, Charlton. Bowyer is there to bring success to Charlton and if that stops happening, why is he there?
Teams will perform in a lumpy way, the first couple of months of this season we were pretty good looking at the table, the last few months have been poor, but you're watching a league 1 team with a relatively inexperienced coaching team.
If we are in the eyes of some underperforming after a year of the club not being a complete basketcase, then pile in
Since the window closed we've had two very opposing performances.
Pompey we looked devoid of a plan or confidence, didn't press quick enough, looked like strangers and seemed to be lacking hunger. It felt like they could have scored on every attack.
Rochdale we had just been spanked by a promotion contender, we looked sharp & organised in the first half and pressed until 60 odd minutes had passed. We looked like we could have scored another 4 and it was a shame we didn't. We tired and they pushed back but we still never looked like conceding.
We need to see what happens on a game by game basis, but if we play like we did against Rochdale on Saturday then we will win comfortably again. If we play how we did against Portsmouth, we could at best hope for a scrappy 1-1.
However it's possible Bows has removed the negitivity from the dressing room.
MK was okay and Rochdale was the best First half we've had all season.
We need to go on a run now.
I estimate we need 5 wins and 2 draws from the next 8 games or it's season over.
In the past month, we've played 7 games, losing twice. Total: 11 points from 7 games.
We've actually won 3 out of the last 4 away games - and the game at Peterborough we surely should have picked up a point at least, if it wasn't for 2 individual mistakes late on - it's hard to legislate for that.
It's at home, where we've disappointed. But even against Rochdale, despite having to chase the game, we should have won after equalising, with clear chances missed.
Same against Swindon. On another day, either of those games we would have won.
The Portsmouth game we were outgunned. Why? We were out thought and outfought.
They were bigger, stronger and really wanted it. They had a gameplan that they made work. And we were set up poorly and played into their hands.
But 11 points in 7 games. It could and should have been better .... but then we're also a team in transition.