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Has Bowyer lost it?
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“Extraordinary comparison”? Christ, you were trying to compare the situation with Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp earlier.MrLargo said:
Wow, Robinson, Slade and Luzon?! Their golden periods of managing Charlton can be measured in minutes and hours rather than months and years. All three got far more financial backing than Bowyer as well.cafctom said:I’ve asked the question before on this thread but didn’t get any real response.This is aimed directly at those stating that we need stability, we should repay loyalty, we can only win with Inniss/Famewo etc...
Would you be so willing to deflect the blame from the current manager if it were Robinson, Luzon, Slade etc? Be honest.
What an extraordinary comparison. In answer to your question, I'd be just as willing to deflect blame from those three if they'd had two and a half years of over- achievement before hitting a bad spell. But they didn't. The end.2 -
Our last 5 homes games Shots on target vs goals * Accrington - 3 on target / 2 goals Rochdale - 7 on target / 4 goals Swindon - 2 on target / 2 goals Portsmouth - 7 on target / 3 goals Gillingham- 2 on target / 2 goals 21 on target = 13 goals 61.9% goal rate
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The fact of the matter for me is that yesterday didn't make me turn. I had no complaints about the starting line up and I think it is a set up we should persevere with as far as possible. We did ok in spells. We responded well to their goals but when we got to a point where we needed to go up a gear we didn't. Gillingham rallied a bit and these short rallies resulted in goals. That for me is as much to do with confidence, or lack of it, as anything else. And I blame Bowyer for that lack of confidence.
I think the behaviours that have led to that are not as marked as before. We are now seeing a consistency of selection and Bowyer is taking his anger out on opponents rather than his own players. But when you have crossed a line, it isn't always the simple matter of taking a step back and expecting things to change. Whilst the vast majority of professional footballers will go out and do their jobs, that team ethic and willingness to run through brick walls for the manager and team can be the difference between a happy dressing room and a not so happy one.
Going back to the behaviours, we need to draw a comparison with Bowyer pre biblical injury issues and ESI and post. He takes over Robinson's mess and despite it looking unlikely we would go on the run we needed to make the play offs, he was puffing out his chest and telling us we would. This followed into the next season and when we got promoted. Everything was going in the right direction. Compare Bowyer's comments in interviews then with now. Where he was positive, he is now negative. A couple of examples. We were all in agreement that five subs would help us. No, Bowyer voted against it and was negative about it. Bowyer was moaning about the cap and rightly so for quite a while. Then when it is removed he focuses on the negatives of its removal. A positive manager talks these things up, whatever he truly thinks, to promote confidence.
Allied to this negativity which flowed over into how we approached games, there was his behaviours towards players and even fans. I don't have to go into the details, we all know them. It was crazy behaviour in plain sight. I don't understand why some of us can't take a step back and see the difference. It is something that happens in relationships. Something happens and then despite trying hard to get things back to where you were, you can't. Some managers can do great when things are going well and everybody is moving forwards together and can be terrible when things start to go wrong and they haven't got the answers. Pardew was a manager with a decent career before and after us, but due to some challenges outside of his call, and poor choices he lost his way and was never going to get it back in his current job. It was interesting that with a clean slate his career took an upturn.
It was of interest that Pratley and Watson told fans that there had not been a big clear the air meeting. To me it would have been a logical step. Sorry lads, I lost it a bit for a while due to all the pressures but give me another chance and let's have a clean slate to move forwards from. I believe that would help but Bowyer is not the sort to reset. He has to be told not to rather than find it from within. The players he has directly wronged have moved on, but it does have an impact on those left behind too.
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Grapevine has definitely lost it. He crossed the line and headed into patronising bullshit territory last year.bolloxbolder said:Never thought I'd say it, but Garbage from Grapevine. Hope he is well, maybe the lockdown has got to him.9 -
That tactic may have worked with Phillips in goal.Chunes said:
This has always been a feature of Bowyer teams hasn't it? We were talking about this last year because it's so noticeable that we don't close people down around the area. I remember someone saying that it's a tactical choice to not close them down, since statistically speaking, it's better to encourage long-range efforts.Scoham said:
He has, it’s clearly 4-4-2 and he’s stuck with it for most of the recent games.cafcfan1990 said:
Absolutely, we're currently starting JFC, Shinnie and Pratley. You then have direct replacements for each of those with Gilbey, Morgan and Watson (plus Shinnie is playing RM anyway). How he looked at that midfield and thought we needed Smith I have no idea.killerandflash said:
On the match thread I posted the players we had at the start of the season.cafcfan1990 said:
He did get the opportunity to make some of that right though. The decision to sign another CM and not a CB was ridiculous. My biggest issue with Bowyer has always been his love of a CM. It's almost an obsession because I genuinely do not believe it makes sense at times. The salary cap was difficult, but it brings extra scrutiny/pressure because you can't afford to get much wrong. For me, he got that one wrongMrLargo said:
Well we're not too far apart then. Whilst I personally would give him until December, I recognise that managers don't normally get that amount of time these days, and if we play out the remainder of the season in the same fashion as the last two months then I don't really expect him to stay, and you won't find me on here in May protesting about his dismissal if that's how it plays out.WattsTheMatter said:
This comment keeps coming up. None of us want Charlton to become "that sort of club" no matter how many times it gets thrown around as a pretty weak ad hominem. Nor are memories short- most of us aren't denying Bowyer got us promoted or that it wasn't a great moment. But there comes a point that you have to ask, what is the point that he has to go? At what point has Bowyer crossed the line?MrLargo said:cafcfan1990 said:
Has it been successful though? Yes we went up but came straight back down. He could easily leave us in a very similar position to the one he took over in.MrLargo said:
No, it clearly isn't exactly the same situation, so a bit odd of you to cite Klopp's success over the last few years, implying that Bowyer hasn't had any success, when he quite obviously had given the circumstances he was working under.shine166 said:
OK its exactly the same situationMrLargo said:
Yeah I know, ridiculous comparison by me. Klopp's barely spent a penny, whereas Bowyer's had his pick of lower league free transfers and inexperienced loanees. I bet Klopp would have jumped at the chance to sign Macaulay Bonne for £100k and Deli Oshilaja on a free. And Bowyer had the advantage of Lyle Taylor refusing to play, whilst poor old Jurgen had to put up with Mo Salah expecting to start every week.shine166 said:
Good comparison if it wasn't for Liverpools succes over the last few yearsMrLargo said:Another defeat for Liverpool today. 2 wins from the last 7 games, not won at home since mid-December.
Van Dijk's injured, blah, blah, blah, Gomez is injured, blah, blah, blah. As if that's a reasonable excuse! Klopp's clearly lost it, bloke hasn't got a clue. Can't believe they've not sacked him yet and brought in Paul Jones or Danny Cowley.
Klopp's had barely any support from Liverpool's billionaire owners whereas good old Roland couldn't get his wallet out quick enough. Really you have to say it's an absolute disgrace that Bowyer wasn't sacked straight after the play off final.
Oh but hang on, he was sacked straight after the play-off final, and all the stupid Charlton fans complained about it because they ridiculously thought he'd worked a miracle in getting us promoted, so Roland reinstated him, so that we had to put up with him nearly keeping us up with the lowest budget in the Championship and absolute meltdown going on behind the scenes with the ownership.
Yep, you're right. You're definitely right.Admittedly the circumstances have mostly been horrendous, so progress was a long shot. Unfortunately for him it’s not anymore so he’s open to a lot more criticism.
Bowyer might well turn out not to be the man, but I think he's earned the right to at least pick his first choice team a couple of times before we discard him. What's more, I think we owe him that, for staying last summer when there were offers from elsewhere and we were changing owners every other week, and for staying the year before despite being rewarded for promotion by getting the sack.
Not expecting to convince anyone to change their mind, but I can't get over how short some of your memories are, and how keen you are for us to become "that sort of club".
If we fail to get top six, is that it? It was the stated aim for the first half of this season but suddenly now we're overachieving whilst being outside of it.
I will always love Bowyer for being a part of the Wembley moments, and it felt all the better having someone 'proper Charlton' at the helm, but how long can that season be held up as a get out of jail free card?
I think he should get until the end of the season to try and get playoffs, for what its worth, but I wouldn't go as far as to give him until December or even longer as some have suggested if he misses the top six target.
But this thread started on 8 January - the transfer window had barely opened and he'd spent the season working with a squad that had been assembled at the last minute and already there were people saying he had to go - and it's snowballed ever since. There's loads of people on here calling for his head and saying that he needs to go now, regardless of what's gone before. I find that attitude hard to stomach, and it does make us "that kind of club".Amos, Purrington, Oshilaja, Pearce, Pratley, Morgan, Williams, Lapslie, Oztumer, Doughty, Aneke, Bonne, Davison plus U23s and Barker.
To me that midfield looks reasonably ok, certainly not an area which was the main priority for strengthening, yet 2 of the first 3 signings Gilbey and Levitt were midfielders.
Because last season we had a few injuries in midfield in the first half, Bowyer had gone massively overboard with midfielders since then. The likes of Smith (the other one) and Davis last January typified this.
My major criticism of Bowyer has been that he has no idea what his best team or formation is. It's nice to have options and variety but it's something he needs to sort out.
Where I see an is our defending as a team. We got back in numbers yesterday which is better than we were doing in games like Rochdale at home, but we need a few of those players to better close down players outside the box.
With Amos not so.1 -
You can see how much he rated some of the players signed in that first window by how long their contracts given were. Quite a few seemed just a case of getting bodies in.Gravesend_Addick said:
Well Bowyers had 2 transfer windows (August & January) since TS took over & has signed around 15 players in that time .Cafc43v3r said:
That's a valid point of view, how long would you give him after the summer?RonnieMoore said:How can Bowyer lose it he ever had till TS took over and it only been 5 months ... Bowyer job starts in the summer
I would suspect if it was a new manager most people would suggest 3 transfer windows is amount of fair time to rebuild a squad?
So no questions asked for another 2 years?
He's been backed. This is his team & his responsibility . If he gets until December as some are suggesting, that's another transfer window & potentially another season gone
Why does the modern football fan support their team as if time is running out? As if every season is the last. No wonder manager turnover is so high these days. Transition seasons aren't allowed to exist.8 -
Bowyer will definitely last to the end of the season and will probably start next season in charge. The question is what is a realistic expectations. Surely it’s must be top 2 and everything else is failure as we were competing for the play offs whilst in transition.Chunes said:
You can see how much he rated some of the players signed in that first window by how long their contracts given were. Quite a few seemed just a case of getting bodies in.Gravesend_Addick said:
Well Bowyers had 2 transfer windows (August & January) since TS took over & has signed around 15 players in that time .Cafc43v3r said:
That's a valid point of view, how long would you give him after the summer?RonnieMoore said:How can Bowyer lose it he ever had till TS took over and it only been 5 months ... Bowyer job starts in the summer
I would suspect if it was a new manager most people would suggest 3 transfer windows is amount of fair time to rebuild a squad?
So no questions asked for another 2 years?
He's been backed. This is his team & his responsibility . If he gets until December as some are suggesting, that's another transfer window & potentially another season gone
Why does the modern football fan support their team as if time is running out? As if every season is the last. No wonder manager turnover is so high these days. Transition seasons simply aren't allowed to exist.Sandgaard won’t have ticket number and booing from the crowd to base his decision but he will have Valley pass number. Can’t see purchases remaining high when lockdown is over and whilst we are playing mid table against Crewe on a really warm sunny day.
Top 6 isn’t going to happen, my expectations to the end of the season is to sort our defence out stop leaking goals, sort our discipline out and make sure we are capable of winning games when going a goal down.That is the backbone of any success1 -
I don't think fans have been inpatient though. We were relegated last season under Bowyer. A new owner has come in, allowed him to rebuild the squad & results are still poor. He's bought players in, publicly criticised them & moved them on within a few months. He signed those players, so it's his responsibility.Chunes said:
You can see how much he rated some of the players signed in that first window by how long their contracts given were. Quite a few seemed just a case of getting bodies in.Gravesend_Addick said:
Well Bowyers had 2 transfer windows (August & January) since TS took over & has signed around 15 players in that time .Cafc43v3r said:
That's a valid point of view, how long would you give him after the summer?RonnieMoore said:How can Bowyer lose it he ever had till TS took over and it only been 5 months ... Bowyer job starts in the summer
I would suspect if it was a new manager most people would suggest 3 transfer windows is amount of fair time to rebuild a squad?
So no questions asked for another 2 years?
He's been backed. This is his team & his responsibility . If he gets until December as some are suggesting, that's another transfer window & potentially another season gone
Why does the modern football fan support their team as if time is running out? As if every season is the last. No wonder manager turnover is so high these days. Transition seasons aren't allowed to exist.
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Anyway we're going round in circles here. We're just going back & forth between those who think Bowyer should stay & those that think he should go. It's just the same arguments over & over again.
I may avoid this thread for a while, or maybe admin should close it.1 -
My points still remain. He gave some of them 1-year contracts, clearly stop-gap solutions in a time-tight situation. At the time of those signings, don't need to remind you that we were playing a midfield of Vennings, Oztumer & Levitt.Gravesend_Addick said:
I don't think fans have been inpatient though. We were relegated last season under Bowyer. A new owner has come in, allowed him to rebuild the squad & results are still poor. He's bought players in, publicly criticised them & moved them on within a few months. He signed those players, so it's his responsibility.Chunes said:
You can see how much he rated some of the players signed in that first window by how long their contracts given were. Quite a few seemed just a case of getting bodies in.Gravesend_Addick said:
Well Bowyers had 2 transfer windows (August & January) since TS took over & has signed around 15 players in that time .Cafc43v3r said:
That's a valid point of view, how long would you give him after the summer?RonnieMoore said:How can Bowyer lose it he ever had till TS took over and it only been 5 months ... Bowyer job starts in the summer
I would suspect if it was a new manager most people would suggest 3 transfer windows is amount of fair time to rebuild a squad?
So no questions asked for another 2 years?
He's been backed. This is his team & his responsibility . If he gets until December as some are suggesting, that's another transfer window & potentially another season gone
Why does the modern football fan support their team as if time is running out? As if every season is the last. No wonder manager turnover is so high these days. Transition seasons aren't allowed to exist.
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There needs to be a balance and clearly we’re not getting it right at the moment.Chunes said:
This has always been a feature of Bowyer teams hasn't it? We were talking about this last year because it's so noticeable that we don't close people down around the area. I remember someone saying that it's a tactical choice to not close them down, since statistically speaking, it's better to encourage long-range efforts.Scoham said:
He has, it’s clearly 4-4-2 and he’s stuck with it for most of the recent games.cafcfan1990 said:
Absolutely, we're currently starting JFC, Shinnie and Pratley. You then have direct replacements for each of those with Gilbey, Morgan and Watson (plus Shinnie is playing RM anyway). How he looked at that midfield and thought we needed Smith I have no idea.killerandflash said:
On the match thread I posted the players we had at the start of the season.cafcfan1990 said:
He did get the opportunity to make some of that right though. The decision to sign another CM and not a CB was ridiculous. My biggest issue with Bowyer has always been his love of a CM. It's almost an obsession because I genuinely do not believe it makes sense at times. The salary cap was difficult, but it brings extra scrutiny/pressure because you can't afford to get much wrong. For me, he got that one wrongMrLargo said:
Well we're not too far apart then. Whilst I personally would give him until December, I recognise that managers don't normally get that amount of time these days, and if we play out the remainder of the season in the same fashion as the last two months then I don't really expect him to stay, and you won't find me on here in May protesting about his dismissal if that's how it plays out.WattsTheMatter said:
This comment keeps coming up. None of us want Charlton to become "that sort of club" no matter how many times it gets thrown around as a pretty weak ad hominem. Nor are memories short- most of us aren't denying Bowyer got us promoted or that it wasn't a great moment. But there comes a point that you have to ask, what is the point that he has to go? At what point has Bowyer crossed the line?MrLargo said:cafcfan1990 said:
Has it been successful though? Yes we went up but came straight back down. He could easily leave us in a very similar position to the one he took over in.MrLargo said:
No, it clearly isn't exactly the same situation, so a bit odd of you to cite Klopp's success over the last few years, implying that Bowyer hasn't had any success, when he quite obviously had given the circumstances he was working under.shine166 said:
OK its exactly the same situationMrLargo said:
Yeah I know, ridiculous comparison by me. Klopp's barely spent a penny, whereas Bowyer's had his pick of lower league free transfers and inexperienced loanees. I bet Klopp would have jumped at the chance to sign Macaulay Bonne for £100k and Deli Oshilaja on a free. And Bowyer had the advantage of Lyle Taylor refusing to play, whilst poor old Jurgen had to put up with Mo Salah expecting to start every week.shine166 said:
Good comparison if it wasn't for Liverpools succes over the last few yearsMrLargo said:Another defeat for Liverpool today. 2 wins from the last 7 games, not won at home since mid-December.
Van Dijk's injured, blah, blah, blah, Gomez is injured, blah, blah, blah. As if that's a reasonable excuse! Klopp's clearly lost it, bloke hasn't got a clue. Can't believe they've not sacked him yet and brought in Paul Jones or Danny Cowley.
Klopp's had barely any support from Liverpool's billionaire owners whereas good old Roland couldn't get his wallet out quick enough. Really you have to say it's an absolute disgrace that Bowyer wasn't sacked straight after the play off final.
Oh but hang on, he was sacked straight after the play-off final, and all the stupid Charlton fans complained about it because they ridiculously thought he'd worked a miracle in getting us promoted, so Roland reinstated him, so that we had to put up with him nearly keeping us up with the lowest budget in the Championship and absolute meltdown going on behind the scenes with the ownership.
Yep, you're right. You're definitely right.Admittedly the circumstances have mostly been horrendous, so progress was a long shot. Unfortunately for him it’s not anymore so he’s open to a lot more criticism.
Bowyer might well turn out not to be the man, but I think he's earned the right to at least pick his first choice team a couple of times before we discard him. What's more, I think we owe him that, for staying last summer when there were offers from elsewhere and we were changing owners every other week, and for staying the year before despite being rewarded for promotion by getting the sack.
Not expecting to convince anyone to change their mind, but I can't get over how short some of your memories are, and how keen you are for us to become "that sort of club".
If we fail to get top six, is that it? It was the stated aim for the first half of this season but suddenly now we're overachieving whilst being outside of it.
I will always love Bowyer for being a part of the Wembley moments, and it felt all the better having someone 'proper Charlton' at the helm, but how long can that season be held up as a get out of jail free card?
I think he should get until the end of the season to try and get playoffs, for what its worth, but I wouldn't go as far as to give him until December or even longer as some have suggested if he misses the top six target.
But this thread started on 8 January - the transfer window had barely opened and he'd spent the season working with a squad that had been assembled at the last minute and already there were people saying he had to go - and it's snowballed ever since. There's loads of people on here calling for his head and saying that he needs to go now, regardless of what's gone before. I find that attitude hard to stomach, and it does make us "that kind of club".Amos, Purrington, Oshilaja, Pearce, Pratley, Morgan, Williams, Lapslie, Oztumer, Doughty, Aneke, Bonne, Davison plus U23s and Barker.
To me that midfield looks reasonably ok, certainly not an area which was the main priority for strengthening, yet 2 of the first 3 signings Gilbey and Levitt were midfielders.
Because last season we had a few injuries in midfield in the first half, Bowyer had gone massively overboard with midfielders since then. The likes of Smith (the other one) and Davis last January typified this.
My major criticism of Bowyer has been that he has no idea what his best team or formation is. It's nice to have options and variety but it's something he needs to sort out.
Where I see an is our defending as a team. We got back in numbers yesterday which is better than we were doing in games like Rochdale at home, but we need a few of those players to better close down players outside the box.2 -
I understand that quality is needed but how much does fitness and desire come in to the winning algorithm. I'd start again next season with youth as the core of the team. Experience counts for shit this season as results have shown. I have said it before, the Lincoln' boss looked at his squad at the end of last season and despite being a winning combination , he knew change was required for succes in League One. He slaughteed the old boys bringing the average player age down from 31 to 22. The result is well known.
Before the thread closes....Bowyer stay! Football is all about sentimentality. Our pre-match commentary shows us how we love our history. Bowyer is part of that so I hope he can be brought along with our future plans.1 -
I had a stream with no commentary on it yesterday so could listen quite well to all the goings on. Bows seemed to spend most of the ref shouting at the ref demanding free kicks and telling the ref to book gills players. Started wondering if this could be affecting us negatively as the refs maybe pissed off with him and give more fouls against us?0
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Surprised you could hear Bowyer over Steve Evans! :-)dmjn said:I had a stream with no commentary on it yesterday so could listen quite well to all the goings on. Bows seemed to spend most of the ref shouting at the ref demanding free kicks and telling the ref to book gills players. Started wondering if this could be affecting us negatively as the refs maybe pissed off with him and give more fouls against us?2 -
If we are overachieving in 7th place who does Bowyer think should be filling the top 7 places then ?2
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Majority still supporting Bowyer according to this poll.3
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I wouldn't take much notice of a twitter poll, small sample.2
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It’s not just the bad results for me it’s the way Lee carries himself & come across. The way it’s never his fault ie the fans, players , refs & now opposing managers! Take the blame yourself man it’s your poor team selections, poor substitutions , poor tactics. The defence has been weakened but my god playing Pratley & Gunter in the back four for so long with Deji eventually on the bench not playing & refusing to sign any defenders saying we can’t find anyone better/don’t need anyone is insane! Picking on & slagging certain players & not others for the same mistakes! Now he says he is overachieving......what.I’m wondering if his one of those managers that can have an impact initially & then drops off aka Mourinho! Really think it’s time for a change & to freshen the place up now.15
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1,000 is not a bad sample.LittleAddick said:I wouldn't take much notice of a twitter poll, small sample.6 - Sponsored links:
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Over 900 votes so far - it’s a much bigger sample than this thread.LittleAddick said:I wouldn't take much notice of a twitter poll, small sample.9 -
Could hear a lot of both but easy to tell who's who with accentsFortune 82nd Minute said:
Surprised you could hear Bowyer over Steve Evans! :-)dmjn said:I had a stream with no commentary on it yesterday so could listen quite well to all the goings on. Bows seemed to spend most of the ref shouting at the ref demanding free kicks and telling the ref to book gills players. Started wondering if this could be affecting us negatively as the refs maybe pissed off with him and give more fouls against us?0 -
how did you get a stream with no commentary?dmjn said:I had a stream with no commentary on it yesterday so could listen quite well to all the goings on. Bows seemed to spend most of the ref shouting at the ref demanding free kicks and telling the ref to book gills players. Started wondering if this could be affecting us negatively as the refs maybe pissed off with him and give more fouls against us?0 -
I had a stream with no commentary too on my firestick.
I'm sure at 1 point I heard Bowyer shout to Evans 'sit down and shut the fuck up 😀8 -
I tell you Bowyer missed a trick yesterday, Ryan Inniss should have been on the bench as kit man or something. Not as easy for Evans to bully and intimate the ref if he was there.0
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Bowyer should be more upset at the ref being influenced by Evans than Evans trying to do so. We were told that Evans tried to have the game postponed, he didn't manage to influence the ref then.
Looking at replays of Aneke's sending off, I think it was harsh but not something you could say was wrong. Some refs would have been lenient given the lack of intent and some wouldn't. If we could appeal it, we wouldn't win. So not sure we can say that was Evans.0 -
The biggest factor is TS won't want another season in L1, in his eyes next season we simply have to get promoted. I think LB will have until Oct/Nov, but if our form is still flakey at that point, I think TS will give him the boot.SouthWest_Addicks said:
Bowyer will definitely last to the end of the season and will probably start next season in charge. The question is what is a realistic expectations. Surely it’s must be top 2 and everything else is failure as we were competing for the play offs whilst in transition.Chunes said:
You can see how much he rated some of the players signed in that first window by how long their contracts given were. Quite a few seemed just a case of getting bodies in.Gravesend_Addick said:
Well Bowyers had 2 transfer windows (August & January) since TS took over & has signed around 15 players in that time .Cafc43v3r said:
That's a valid point of view, how long would you give him after the summer?RonnieMoore said:How can Bowyer lose it he ever had till TS took over and it only been 5 months ... Bowyer job starts in the summer
I would suspect if it was a new manager most people would suggest 3 transfer windows is amount of fair time to rebuild a squad?
So no questions asked for another 2 years?
He's been backed. This is his team & his responsibility . If he gets until December as some are suggesting, that's another transfer window & potentially another season gone
Why does the modern football fan support their team as if time is running out? As if every season is the last. No wonder manager turnover is so high these days. Transition seasons simply aren't allowed to exist.Sandgaard won’t have ticket number and booing from the crowd to base his decision but he will have Valley pass number. Can’t see purchases remaining high when lockdown is over and whilst we are playing mid table against Crewe on a really warm sunny day.
Top 6 isn’t going to happen, my expectations to the end of the season is to sort our defence out stop leaking goals, sort our discipline out and make sure we are capable of winning games when going a goal down.That is the backbone of any success
I don't think anyone has really mentioned this, but it might also depend on what out of work managers could also be floating around with a good promotion track record. TS might think pull the trigger now, and I could get this fella in who will get us into the championship.1 -
I agree that is likely to be the case, but issue is you give a manager until October / November and it can already be too late to get the season back on track as it’s gonna be top 2 or bust next season.CAFCTrev said:
The biggest factor is TS won't want another season in L1, in his eyes next season we simply have to get promoted. I think LB will have until Oct/Nov, but if our form is still flakey at that point, I think TS will give him the boot.SouthWest_Addicks said:
Bowyer will definitely last to the end of the season and will probably start next season in charge. The question is what is a realistic expectations. Surely it’s must be top 2 and everything else is failure as we were competing for the play offs whilst in transition.Chunes said:
You can see how much he rated some of the players signed in that first window by how long their contracts given were. Quite a few seemed just a case of getting bodies in.Gravesend_Addick said:
Well Bowyers had 2 transfer windows (August & January) since TS took over & has signed around 15 players in that time .Cafc43v3r said:
That's a valid point of view, how long would you give him after the summer?RonnieMoore said:How can Bowyer lose it he ever had till TS took over and it only been 5 months ... Bowyer job starts in the summer
I would suspect if it was a new manager most people would suggest 3 transfer windows is amount of fair time to rebuild a squad?
So no questions asked for another 2 years?
He's been backed. This is his team & his responsibility . If he gets until December as some are suggesting, that's another transfer window & potentially another season gone
Why does the modern football fan support their team as if time is running out? As if every season is the last. No wonder manager turnover is so high these days. Transition seasons simply aren't allowed to exist.Sandgaard won’t have ticket number and booing from the crowd to base his decision but he will have Valley pass number. Can’t see purchases remaining high when lockdown is over and whilst we are playing mid table against Crewe on a really warm sunny day.
Top 6 isn’t going to happen, my expectations to the end of the season is to sort our defence out stop leaking goals, sort our discipline out and make sure we are capable of winning games when going a goal down.That is the backbone of any success
I don't think anyone has really mentioned this, but it might also depend on what out of work managers could also be floating around with a good promotion track record. TS might think pull the trigger now, and I could get this fella in who will get us into the championship.
So the risk is you end up spending 3 years at this level instead of the plan of going up this season. Which can start to have huge implications on the next decade.2 -
I think that is why the target is the play offs. It will show things have been stabilised whether we win them or not. That could arguably be a platform for next season. If we carry on like we are there has to be doubts about that and as you say, giving the manager until October or later is a massive risk. if you are saying that promotion by the end of next season is essential, is it a risk Sandgaard would wish to take?0
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Big Bowyer fan obviously but this those are the kind of comments that make me think 'cmon Lee mate'. Overachieving by being outside the top6 in league 1? That's such a losers mentality for someone who only signs 'winners' as he has said multiple times. I understand his argument in look at Wigan, but then in fairness look at Hull. Wigan were stripped down far more then we were. I also understand he is saying it as a plea to the owner to keep his job but even that I don't like. We as fans aren't bloody stupid so comments like that make out that we are to him imo.
Feeling deflated as per, the players were talking like we could go on a run and we fell at the second hurdle as per.
My finals thoughts are I don't see Bowyer staying, he is coming across desperate and that shows to me the relationship with Thomas is definitely more of the just business kind. I also will still defend Lee and say if we are still in this league next season, excluding loans I would only want JFC, DJ, Aneke, Albie & Schwartz to stay. Rest can go for all I care. Worst defense I've seen at Charlton in God knows how long2
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