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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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We had even lower budgets and them plus all the off the field nonsense to deal with. Can’t win games without goals - where were they coming from after the season restarted, other than Bonne?hudson-son-son said:Scoham said:
Corrected for you, was always going to be very difficult to stay up when Bonne was our only player left who scored more than 3 goals last season. Plenty of managers would have got relegated long before the last game with the limited resources and other issues Bowyer had to deal with.MrOneLung said:Let’s not forget we should have stayed up last season. No other team was as goalless as us during the run in.
I mean it was Barnsley and Luton who finished ahead of us on the final day, hardly like they were spending millions themselves. Then the same again with Wigan who only finished behind us because of a points deduction.2 -
So are you saying we had a squad with only one forward last season ?
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I don't understand why the relegation last season is only now becoming Bowyer's fault.Scoham said:
Corrected for you, was always going to be very difficult to stay up when Bonne was our only player left who scored more than 3 goals last season. Plenty of managers would have got relegated long before the last game with the limited resources and other issues Bowyer had to deal with.MrOneLung said:Let’s not forget we should have stayed up last season. No other team was as goalless as us during the run in.
Must be confirmation bias, people just searching around for other evidence to suit their view.
Don't remember a whisper on here blaming Bowyer last season.7 -
The goals weren’t coming from Hemed, Aneke, Davison and Green were they?MrOneLung said:So are you saying we had a squad with only one forward last season ?
Hemed - now struggling to score in the Australian league
Aneke - scoring but in a lower league, couldn’t stay fit last season and didn’t make much of an impact when he was available
Davison - spent this season on loan in the 5th and later 4th tier
Green - couldn’t find a club, recently signed by Sheff Wed, not played this month
I wouldn’t want those strikers in this league, never mind the Championship.
It forced us to naturally play defensively as our attacking threats had little to no threat. They were too easy for defenders to deal with.
We badly missed Taylor and Leko. Even though Leko was inconsistent he competed at that level, most of those players barely did that.5 -
Plus we badly missed Gallagher after he left, I think it’s a safe bet to say if we had kept Gallagher & had Taylor for the run in we wouldn’t have gone down. Neither of those were ultimately Bowyers fault. I think it’s really harsh to say it was Bowyers fault we got relegated, if he’d kept us up it would of been a miracle11
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I simply run on the following..... Was last season Bowyers fault? On that I truly think staying up would have been a hell of an achievement based on the unease at the club. So not his fault.
This season? We have a squad that is easily strong enough for this level and to get out the division....... it’s been a disaster up to this point.8 -
As for the theory that managers really don't matter much and that player quality, as reflected by how much they demand in the marketplace (club wage bill) is what matters.... CAFC's rank the last 3 years in each division ...SEASON..............wage bill rank............league finish2018-19..................2................................32019-20..................23.............................232020-21.............capped............................8This kind of data has been shown to be true for some time across all leagues, although within any one season, or within any one club, there is obvious variation. Over the long term though, better players... win. We don't have them at the moment. I like Lee, but he was not as good as we gave him credit for two seasons ago and he is not as bad as some think now. We need better.... players, not a manager change.1
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I do believe there’s an element of our support that if they caught Bowyer shagging their missus they would not only not kick up a fuss but they’d also make him a brew and light him up a Marlboro afterwards.6
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No one is blaming Bowyer for relegation.Chunes said:
I don't understand why the relegation last season is only now becoming Bowyer's fault.Scoham said:
Corrected for you, was always going to be very difficult to stay up when Bonne was our only player left who scored more than 3 goals last season. Plenty of managers would have got relegated long before the last game with the limited resources and other issues Bowyer had to deal with.MrOneLung said:Let’s not forget we should have stayed up last season. No other team was as goalless as us during the run in.
Must be confirmation bias, people just searching around for other evidence to suit their view.
Don't remember a whisper on here blaming Bowyer last season.
However we won 6 games after the 19th of October last season. It would have been a massive achievement if we stayed up and he nearly did it. We were quite brilliant at times in early August until mid October. That was 16 months ago.
All the things he has been critised for this season, public criticism of players, negative tactics/substitutions, playing players out of position, tinkering etc were (yes we have the benifit of hindsight) evident last season.
Hand on heart how many times have we played well in those 16 months? I mean where you thought "bloody hell we were good".
We have won 18 games in 16 months, not a blip is it?
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We almost certainly have a top six wage bill, this season, for this league.......NapaAddick said:As for the theory that managers really don't matter much and that player quality, as reflected by how much they demand in the marketplace (club wage bill) is what matters.... CAFC's rank the last 3 years in each division ...SEASON..............wage bill rank............league finish2018-18..................2................................32019-20..................23.............................232020-21.............capped............................8This kind of data has been shown to be true for some time across all leagues, although within any one season, or within any one club, there is obvious variation. Over the long term though, better players... win. We don't have them at the moment. I like Lee, but he was not as good as we gave him credit for two seasons ago and he is not as bad as some think now. We need better.... players, not a manager change.0 - Sponsored links:
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Every word of that is true. Of course it is not his fault, that's very different to saying he was faultless though.Charlton_Road_James said:Plus we badly missed Gallagher after he left, I think it’s a safe bet to say if we had kept Gallagher & had Taylor for the run in we wouldn’t have gone down. Neither of those were ultimately Bowyers fault. I think it’s really harsh to say it was Bowyers fault we got relegated, if he’d kept us up it would of been a miracle4 -
TBF I'd probably do that if I caught Steve Evans having a crack.AddickUpNorth said:I do believe there’s an element of our support that if they caught Bowyer shagging their missus they would not only not kick up a fuss but they’d also make him a brew and light him up a Marlboro afterwards.2 -
I'm still in the stick with Bowyer camp. He's made some mistakes but I'm sure he has learnt a few lessons. The management team wanted 2 players for each position , unfortunately 2 of the 4 central defenders aren't good enough for a promotion team and that was not addressed in January. Thomas S will make any decision for the good of the club , if he still has faith in LB he should stick with him.1
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From someone on twitter.
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Is anyone actually saying “it was Bowyer’s fault we got relegated” last season? I haven’t actually seen that written anywhere, feels a bit strawman.Charlton_Road_James said:Plus we badly missed Gallagher after he left, I think it’s a safe bet to say if we had kept Gallagher & had Taylor for the run in we wouldn’t have gone down. Neither of those were ultimately Bowyers fault. I think it’s really harsh to say it was Bowyers fault we got relegated, if he’d kept us up it would of been a miracle1 -
Maybe Arsenal should have stuck with Bruce Rioch, United with Ron Atkinson, Liverpool with with Rodgers, Bournemouth with Paul Groves etc. Or indeed us when Parky was sacked and Powell brought incarly burn said:
From someone on twitter.
There are plenty of examples of clubs benefiting from being patient, but there are also examples where making the change turned out to be the right decision12 -
times have changed , players longevity of contract and the amount of loans mean it’s all a complete merry go round , football isn’t players/managers staying at clubs for most of their careers
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Liverpool were almost certainly wrong to sack Phil Taylor........killerandflash said:
Maybe Arsenal should have stuck with Bruce Rioch, United with Ron Atkinson, Liverpool with with Rodgers, Bournemouth with Paul Groves etc. Or indeed us when Parky was sacked and Powell brought incarly burn said:
From someone on twitter.
There are plenty of examples of clubs benefiting from being patient, but there are also examples where making the change turned out to be the right decision2 -
I think you are wrong. I think Bowyer will start next season. He will take on a handful of new players. We will totter along in or near the play off places. Calls for his sacking will be met with accusations of a lack of loyalty. Rinse and Repeat.ShootersHillGuru said:I think Bowyer will start next season. He’ll be backed in a rebuild we haven’t seen the like since Chris Powell’s promotion season. Thomas will have to do that if he wants promotion. That will be the minimum requirement. If we’re not right up and at it by November then I think Lee will be gone but I’m quite happy for that time and confidence to be given. This season was dead three weeks ago and the funeral was yesterday.0 -
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"I hope they are wrong now". The worst get out clause ever.carly burn said:
From someone on twitter.
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Stay loyal....I'm not worried if we dont go up this year, a chance to rebuild in the close season and then have another crack.
As AFKA said its a pretty depressing world right now and of course things are being accentuated through our focus on the club through social media......sometimes I yearn for the days when all club news came through The Kentish Independent and the Mercury.....nowadays if a player is heard farting in Bluewater its all over the media in second's and every Tom, Dick and Harry is discussing its smell factor and loudness whilst other express outrage at the audacity of being a mere mortal passing wind in a public environment.
Lets just be loyal, stick with Bows and the management team and rebuild this great club together. Its time for unity not more unrest......the Duchatelet years are finally behind us, that alone is something we should all be ecstatic about.10 -
For those saying “no one here said it was Bowyers fault for getting us relegated”
You are the same people referencing his ‘downfall’ as starting last season.
stop backtracking7 -
Just because they noticed that his downfall started last season, does not mean they are holding him accountable for relegation.esseffect said:For those saying “no one here said it was Bowyers fault for getting us relegated”
You are the same people referencing his ‘downfall’ as starting last season.
stop backtracking
There's a difference. His negative style came in last season and was entirely understandable given our ownership shenanigans and finances. When we were relegated nobody blamed Bowyer. ESI took that one.
Bowyer hasn't shaken off the negative approach until very recently.
Personally I can't find a fault with how we approached Saturday's game from a managerially pov. Steve Evans knows how to bully refs and has Bowyer's card. He knew exactly how to beat us and it was long hopeful shots.
Despite conceding the early goal we came back at em and looked more likely to win. Aneke's red lost us any chance of taking anything from the fixture.
We are not overachieving though and anyone spouting that line is lying to themselves and anyone they spread the lie to.
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And we are 8th now and was 6th just 48 hours ago. Sounds about right.Cafc43v3r said:
We almost certainly have a top six wage bill, this season, for this league.......NapaAddick said:As for the theory that managers really don't matter much and that player quality, as reflected by how much they demand in the marketplace (club wage bill) is what matters.... CAFC's rank the last 3 years in each division ...SEASON..............wage bill rank............league finish2018-18..................2................................32019-20..................23.............................232020-21.............capped............................8This kind of data has been shown to be true for some time across all leagues, although within any one season, or within any one club, there is obvious variation. Over the long term though, better players... win. We don't have them at the moment. I like Lee, but he was not as good as we gave him credit for two seasons ago and he is not as bad as some think now. We need better.... players, not a manager change.
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Ah right, so no one has actually said it was Bowyer’s fault we got relegated. Thought so.esseffect said:For those saying “no one here said it was Bowyers fault for getting us relegated”
You are the same people referencing his ‘downfall’ as starting last season.
stop backtracking3 -
Sse9addick said:
Someone said some pages back that they do blame Bowyer for our relegation last season.
Ah right, so no one has actually said it was Bowyer’s fault we got relegated. Thought so.esseffect said:For those saying “no one here said it was Bowyers fault for getting us relegated”
You are the same people referencing his ‘downfall’ as starting last season.
stop backtracking
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That Bowyer got dealt a bad hand last season and this season (pre Sandgaard) is a very valid point. The question is whether he played that hand very well.
Or another way of looking at it is questioning how much of his issues are outside his control and how many self inflicted.
How these are answered will decide your opinion on how well he's done and whether change is due.2 -
I said no team was as gutless as us in the run in and we should have stayed up.7
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ThisMrOneLung said:I said no team was as gutless as us in the run in and we should have stayed up.0
This discussion has been closed.
