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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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With the caveat of games played. Which obviously suggests stronger starts and harsher falls away for those with more games that are nearer the bottom.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...0 -
Be intresting if he is still above Powell in 11 games time. Needs to win 5 of them.Dazzler21 said:
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.esseffect said:Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.1 -
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...1 -
Promote-worthy excel skills Dazzler2
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WhoooshCovered End said:
I gave up reading this thread, with the same people saying the say things, numerous times every day of every week, but in fairness this is a new angle.MuttleyCAFC said:Blaming Bowyer for our relegation is complex. We can blame him for promotion in the first place, we can blame him for keeping our heads above water through the injuries and we can blame him for being a bit too negative at the death when it turned out we only needed a point.
Lee Bowyer now getting blamed for promotion!0 -
I remember a very shitty afternoon at the new Den towards the end of the Steve n Alan era, of people wanting them out, and then upset that summer, that both of them weren't sacked2
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I wonder if Jimmy Seed's win ratio would have been higher if he'd been allowed to bring on substitutes?
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He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage isCafc43v3r said:
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...0 -
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first placekillerandflash said:
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage isCafc43v3r said:
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...
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Me neither but at least they had experience in the English game, weren’t out of the Douchbag’s pool of employees and we avoided Nobby Vinegar getting the gig.ForeverAddickted said:
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first placekillerandflash said:
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage isCafc43v3r said:
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...4 - Sponsored links:
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The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.2
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I'd say its more about the players than the manager.Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.1 -
When we had Bulot, Watt, Igor and JBG we were fantastic to watch.Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.8 -
Just a shame Bulot had to deal with injury and the African Nations Cup so we only really benefited from that February / March onwards with himCafc43v3r said:
When we had Bulot, Watt, Igor and JBG we were fantastic to watch.Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.2 -
Didn't we have an agreement in place to sign him, before we lost out?ForeverAddickted said:
Just a shame Bulot had to deal with injury and the African Nations Cup so we only really benefited from that February / March onwards with himCafc43v3r said:
When we had Bulot, Watt, Igor and JBG we were fantastic to watch.Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.0 -
God knows what happened with him signing permanentlyDazzler21 said:
Didn't we have an agreement in place to sign him, before we lost out?ForeverAddickted said:
Just a shame Bulot had to deal with injury and the African Nations Cup so we only really benefited from that February / March onwards with himCafc43v3r said:
When we had Bulot, Watt, Igor and JBG we were fantastic to watch.Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.0 -
Luzon wasn’t too bad a manager tbh, quite liked him!Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.1 -
Certainly had spirit and the players liked him I believe.cafcsinger said:
Luzon wasn’t too bad a manager tbh, quite liked him!Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.2 -
I forgot about Igor!! He had one season when he was a goal machine, correct? Then perm injured, that's how I remember itCafc43v3r said:
When we had Bulot, Watt, Igor and JBG we were fantastic to watch.Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.0 -
He had 12 games before his Achilles went popCharlton_Road_James said:
I forgot about Igor!! He had one season when he was a goal machine, correct? Then perm injured, that's how I remember itCafc43v3r said:
When we had Bulot, Watt, Igor and JBG we were fantastic to watch.Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.0 - Sponsored links:
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He had less than half a season and I remember people saying they were worried a big prem club would come in for him like Chelsea, the same Chelsea that had Costa, Remy and Drogba on their books at the time. Lol0
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His glory period was at the start, under PeetersCharlton_Road_James said:
I forgot about Igor!! He had one season when he was a goal machine, correct? Then perm injured, that's how I remember itCafc43v3r said:
When we had Bulot, Watt, Igor and JBG we were fantastic to watch.Callumcafc said:The fact that Guy Luzon lucked his way to a win percentage of 32% shows you that sometimes it ain’t all about the manager sometimes but the players on the pitch.
Luzon seemed to get the best out of Tony Watt, that period at the end of 2014/15 (including the famous sequence where he kept the ball against Forest) made him a real cult hero2 -
Robinson is a decent enough manager at L1 level. He does have a promotion under his belt after all so was probably the most "qualified" of all the Roland appointments (including Bowyer)ForeverAddickted said:
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first placekillerandflash said:
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage isCafc43v3r said:
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...0 -
Robinson did a lot of good at the club. He persisted with a formation that wasn't working and you can draw some parallels with the current manager. The problem he faced was similar to what many managers face. He got in a rut and couldn't see the wood for the trees at the end. Bowyer came in and changed things and we started winning with the same players.4
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But all games played in second or third tier, as opposed to many in top tier with Curbs and another fella.Dazzler21 said:
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.esseffect said:Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.1 -
You can only use the stats, the players at disposal would have also differed greatly depending on the level played.JamesSeed said:
But all games played in second or third tier, as opposed to many in top tier with Curbs and another fella.Dazzler21 said:
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.esseffect said:Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.2 -
Well that's a mental image I didn't need over tea. That said, Dave does have a point, in that even before you take into account our specific issues as a club, this season is not a normal one by any stretch of the imagination. The late start and the postponements due to Covid infections (plus postponements due to the weather, but that's a bit more normal) causing a really compressed playing schedule, the lack of fans in grounds, and the impact on players of worries about the health and well-being of their loved ones during the pandemic mean that results were always going to be a lot more random this year. When you compound that with the impact of ESI on our squad, both in terms of the failure to renew contracts last season and not being able to rebuild before the salary cap came in, meaning that we had less flexibility over signing an already reduced pool of players, then bouncing straight back up was always going to be a big job. We don't have a divine right to go back up just because we're a big club for this level, look at how long Portsmouth have been down here, and neither Sunderland or Ipswich have exactly been pulling up trees. Perhaps I'm at an advantage as my expectations for this season were never especially high, so I'm getting less wound up by us being a bit crap at times than some of you.Dave2l said:
I do understand the need for high expectations and we've got good players but it's simply just an awful sh*t season anyway.
It is a diarrhea mosh pit. For a lot of reasons.
Bowyer has lost it a bit but he can and will get it back. The players also know he's had it rough and they should all stick together and be on the same side.
I doubt that will happen but it needs to.
It will only happen if the fans reach out and make it clear that we know how sh*t things have been. We know we won't be at our best, at present...due to a lot of off field problems and distractions.
Allow the pressure to minimise for this season.
If necessary, get on their backs next season.
For me, not wanting Bowyer out isn't a question of loyalty to the man over the club, it's about recognising that loyalty to the club requires taking a more long term view. After all the upheaval of the last few years, what we really need as a club is a degree of stability, particularly with all the uncertainty in wider society. In addition, having had an owner with a particularly itchy trigger finger when it comes to sacking managers not that long ago, I'd rather Thomas was a bit more patient rather than gambling with getting a new one in in the hope of making the play-offs, as that may colour perceptions of him too, both within the fanbase and the wider football community. I wouldn't say this season is a "free hit" but it's definitely a transitional one for all sorts of reasons, so we need to see how it pans out before making any major changes.10 -
But would still argue that Curb’s position is artificially low as it’s harder to win matches in the Premier League than in League One (unless you have the budget of a Man City or a Chelsea, which Curbs didn’t).Dazzler21 said:
You can only use the stats, the players at disposal would have also differed greatly depending on the level played.JamesSeed said:
But all games played in second or third tier, as opposed to many in top tier with Curbs and another fella.Dazzler21 said:
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.esseffect said:Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.
It’s still a decent win ratio for Bowyer, whatever the level though. 👍3 -
The question comes down to Sandgaard's own plan and how much he himself sees it as a period of "transition" vs "immediate results".
The appointments he's made behind the scenes suggest that on a macro/business level he's definitely following a "transition" model as he's been clearing out and tidying up behind the scenes - probably this has taken precedence over the team for now.
Come the summer I imagine Bowyer will be given some very specific targets and goals to meet and a timeline. It might be at this point if there's no confidence that Bowyer can meet those targets that he pulls the trigger then and there - but that's unknowable at the moment.0 -
It's very mature to say that we shouldn't be making changes now, to think of the longer term view etc
BUT if Bowyer was replaced by say Paul Cook who took us to the playoffs where we beat Sunderland again to reach the Championship, how many people here would then be complaining that we should have kept Bowyer?
I'm not saying that would be the outcome, indeed we could end up still missing out on promotion, but ultimately football is a results based business. Nobody gets forever to get results1
This discussion has been closed.
