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Has Bowyer lost it?

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  • 10th or 11th once Ipswich and Blackpool catch up. 
    In one of, if not the worst league ones for a years. 
    Can’t defend it.



  • Accrington, Lincoln and Charlton all over achieving. We are a league one club with championship aspirations. 🤔
  • J BLOCK said:
    10th or 11th once Ipswich and Blackpool catch up. 
    In one of, if not the worst league ones for a years. 
    Can’t defend it.



    Very poor, Accrington ahead of us ffs. Accrington.
  • Who are they ?
  • Who are they ?
    Exactly. 
  • People can knock the likes Accrington all they want,but football history throws up many comparisons where smallish clubs seemingly over perform.One of the main reasons is Luck with injuries and also having much smaller squads,resisting the need to change the team every time a bad result comes along.If a competent manager (John Coleman) comes along ,gets a group of players all singing on the same hymn sheet,(Lincoln) then good results can follow.Now last year we did not have a big enough squad,this year,I think,too many midfielders ,the temptation always there to keep changing.Liverpool once won the league (42 games) using 14 players.A prime if very old example of getting a group of mediocre players performing is The Ipswich title winning side under Ramsey .They had a 38 year old winger who had one job,in the box to big forwards who did the rest.
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  • edited February 2021
    J BLOCK said:
    SamE7 said:
    I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.

    -Relegation
    -Loss of most of our first team
    -Transfer embargo / wage cap
    -Team thrown together in 2 weeks
    -Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)

    If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.

     Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom
    This squad is more than capable of play offs, we are getting turned over week on week by teams worse than us, that is the issue.
    Deji and Pearce aren't good enough to make the play-offs. It's hard to get anywhere with a weakness like that in the spine of the team. Would they get in any of the teams above us? I don't think so. Pearce might be lucky to get in any of the teams in the bottom 5. I would certainly swap Gillingham's CBs for them, one of them in particular looked very handy.
  • J BLOCK said:
    10th or 11th once Ipswich and Blackpool catch up. 
    In one of, if not the worst league ones for a years. 
    Can’t defend it.



    Very poor, Accrington ahead of us ffs. Accrington.
    Really hate that attitude tbh. Clubs like Accrington and Lincoln have been well run for a number of years, with minimal changes and an underlying stability and no doubt working to a strategic plan. The salary cap in this league makes it a massive leveller which these type of clubs will benefit from. 

    Dont forget in previous years we have been that Accrington or Lincoln in other leagues and scoffed at the ‘big club mentality’ towards little Charlton. 
    To be fair it was said slightly in jest, and i do like John Coleman (although they are/were a dirty horrible side). However, Bowyer saying we’re overachieving is taking the piss in my opinion. We don’t have a divine right to be above anyone, but we should be above Accrington if you compare our squad/budget etc
  • edited February 2021
    Chunes said:
    J BLOCK said:
    SamE7 said:
    I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.

    -Relegation
    -Loss of most of our first team
    -Transfer embargo / wage cap
    -Team thrown together in 2 weeks
    -Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)

    If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.

     Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom
    This squad is more than capable of play offs, we are getting turned over week on week by teams worse than us, that is the issue.
    Deji and Pearce aren't good enough to make the play-offs. It's hard to get anywhere with a weakness like that in the spine of the team. Would they get in any of the teams above us? I don't think so. Pearce might be lucky to get in any of the teams in the bottom 5. I would certainly swap Gillingham's CBs for them, one of them in particular looked very handy.
    So why didn't lord Bowyer strength in Jan? It was obvious to every single person who watched us before Jan that we needed strengthening there and we failed to do anything. 
  • edited February 2021
    J BLOCK said:
    Chunes said:
    J BLOCK said:
    SamE7 said:
    I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.

    -Relegation
    -Loss of most of our first team
    -Transfer embargo / wage cap
    -Team thrown together in 2 weeks
    -Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)

    If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.

     Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom
    This squad is more than capable of play offs, we are getting turned over week on week by teams worse than us, that is the issue.
    Deji and Pearce aren't good enough to make the play-offs. It's hard to get anywhere with a weakness like that in the spine of the team. Would they get in any of the teams above us? I don't think so. Pearce might be lucky to get in any of the teams in the bottom 5. I would certainly swap Gillingham's CBs for them, one of them in particular looked very handy.
    So why didn't lord Bowyer strength in Jan? It was obvious to every single person who watched us before Jan that we needed strengthening there and we failed to do anything. 
    Him and Gallen both said there weren't any better CBs available under the cap. 
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  • SamE7 said:
    I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.

    -Relegation
    -Loss of most of our first team
    -Transfer embargo / wage cap
    -Team thrown together in 2 weeks
    -Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)

    If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.

     Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom
    Fair point. I would expect it to be slow to start with and then get better as the employees gained experience. When the team was thrown together, we went on a great run. As the players have settled in, we have got a lot worse, and that is the concern. 

    Maybe expectations grew a bit unrealistically given our form when the transfer window closed. But to get worse is no excuse, you cannot tell me that this group of players aren't good enough to compete at the top end of League 1. We may have "thrown the team together in two weeks" but a lot of those players were longer term targets so I don't see it as a major excuse. 

    If we had started slow and were getting better I could accept that, but I don't see any excuses for our form over the last couple of months. 
  • Chunes said:
    J BLOCK said:
    Chunes said:
    J BLOCK said:
    SamE7 said:
    I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.

    -Relegation
    -Loss of most of our first team
    -Transfer embargo / wage cap
    -Team thrown together in 2 weeks
    -Injuries (I'm aware every team has them)

    If anyone here thought we would have a successful season then you are deluded. Some of the players we signed on frees were mostly out of necessity that nobody wanted (see the ones who have left), this whole club needs a rebuild and stability from top to bottom. That doesn't take 6 months.

     Bowyer has done some odd things but the situation permits, as the saying goes. I think some football fans (definitely on the forum) live in this magical dream world where everything is like Football Manager. Imagine at the end of each year your whole workplace was turned over from top to bottom
    This squad is more than capable of play offs, we are getting turned over week on week by teams worse than us, that is the issue.
    Deji and Pearce aren't good enough to make the play-offs. It's hard to get anywhere with a weakness like that in the spine of the team. Would they get in any of the teams above us? I don't think so. Pearce might be lucky to get in any of the teams in the bottom 5. I would certainly swap Gillingham's CBs for them, one of them in particular looked very handy.
    So why didn't lord Bowyer strength in Jan? It was obvious to every single person who watched us before Jan that we needed strengthening there and we failed to do anything. 
    Him and Gallen both said they weren't any better CBs available under the cap. 
    We had budget to sign stockley, we signed Schwartz we signed smith. Whilst all are good players, at least one should have been a defender. I struggle to believe there wasn’t one player we could get that was better than Deji or Pearce, they are garbage.
  • Dazzler21 said:
    SamE7 said:
    I still can't get my head around that some people can't seem to comprehend the situation our club was in over the summer.

    -Team thrown together in 2 weeks
    2 weeks to throw a squad together?

     Except Bowyer and Gallen had the summer to negotiate it was just 2 weeks to complete, We lost out on a couple of deals as the players moved elsewhere so we know we were negotiating/ building a plan for a lot more than 2 weeks.

    We still did a lot of business snapping up half decent players. Most decent deals are done towards the back end of the window.

    We signed:
    Gunter - Solid Right Back - Should be excelling at this level
    Matthews - Solid Right Back - Should be excelling at this level
    Inniss - Looked good, shame about the injury. Conceded 2 in 5 games with him in the side.
    Famewo - Looked good, shame about the injury. Conceded 3 in 8 games with him in the side.
    Maatsen - He's quick, is decent at tackling, but his shooting and crossing are far too predictable. 
    Levitt - Well... We were sold a dud there. 
    Watson - Should be excelling at this level
    Gilbey - Shows flashes of class, He has and can excel at this level
    Shinnie - Looks decent, has played well, defensively not great but offers more good than bad
    Maddison - Literally bossed this league, even at the start of last season. Bowyer & Gallen took a risk and it didn't pay off (despite allegedly chasing him for 2 transfer windows)
    Smyth - Quickish, trickyish, okayish. Should probably have done better than he did.
    Bogle - Tried, but mismanaged. Was never going to be our saviour. 
    Washington - 7 goals and 2 assists so far, far from the worst forward we have had. Find it strange how negative people are about him as he's a work horse and scores (probably has outscored what people thought he'd get already)

    There's a lot of class in there, do you think they suddenly all became average league one players overnight? Or do you think the Manager and his training and tactics may play a part? 

    We got rid of the 4 in January and replaced them with:

    Levitt - Smith
    Smyth - Jaiyesimi
    Maddison - Millar
    Bogle - Stockley
    Schwartz

    We've certainly added quality there. I don't think anyone is saying they expected us to get autos after the January - Sept we had, but making the playoffs (Not even saying the final) should have been easily achievable with those players and the right manager. 

    A reminder we have played with:

    18 different defence set ups,
    25 different midfield set ups,
    22 different forward lines
    across 6 different formations.

    We need a sustained period of playing a single formation and first 11. Only changing when better players become available (Inniss & Famewo) OR players are showing fatigue OR get injured. Rotating for the sake of it just messes with the playing chemistry or 'gelling'.

    Even in our 8 game unbeaten run, we tinkered each game, and unsurprisingly the defence had the fewest changes. 

    I think we can still make the playoffs, even under Bowyer, but he needs to have a settled side to do so. 

    Out of those signings who has performed ?
  • What we're seeing is the best players dont instantly make the best squads

    Why havent Belgium, apparently the best team in International Football won a Major Tournament yet?

    Hence why when Leeds and West Ham each got relegated from the Premier League the opinion always was: "They're too good to go down"

    As I've questioned a few times this season, Bowyer effectively had two / three weeks to put a whole new squad together, all the while under a Salary Cap. Yes it was his choice to sign the likes of Gunter and Watson on high wages but the risk of utilising experience with youth doesnt appear to be working on this occasion.

    People may not like it but on that basis, yes we are over achieving, a squad put together in such short notice against squads that have been together a lot longer and we probably are punching above our weight because they've got the benefit of having familiarity of playing together. I find the notion of the best team with the best budget, especially at this level extremely prehistoric - Even the likes of Darren Pratley have said in the last week how its been difficult for new signings to gel because the squad havent been able to go for a meal and get to know each other properly, what happens off the pitch appears to be so massively ignored by fans to an extent.

    Wasnt it David Wagner and Huddersfield who went to some extremely remote part of Norway or Sweden where they basically fended for themselves the whole time, it created a squad of players that were close, could trust each other and won promotion to the Premier League

    Its why I'm sticking to my guns that Bowyer should be given one last build with a proper pre-season where there is time for the players to work on things without the consequences of competitive fixtures, combined with being to head off somewhere, even if its the Belfrey again so whatever new team has the opportunity to get to know each other
    Very good post, a few things I'd challenge are in my post.  I would suggest that a settled side gels quicker than one that is chopped and changed.

    I still think we can make the play offs, but we need to make as few changes as possible. I actually have no issue with our last two set ups. We kept the same squad, we pressed Rochdale better, but we didn't look entirely like strangers.

    That'll improve each game they play together. 
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!