I do understand the need for high expectations and we've got good players but it's simply just an awful sh*t season anyway.
It is a diarrhea mosh pit. For a lot of reasons.
Bowyer has lost it a bit but he can and will get it back. The players also know he's had it rough and they should all stick together and be on the same side.
I doubt that will happen but it needs to.
It will only happen if the fans reach out and make it clear that we know how sh*t things have been. We know we won't be at our best, at present...due to a lot of off field problems and distractions.
Allow the pressure to minimise for this season.
If necessary, get on their backs next season.
Well that's a mental image I didn't need over tea. That said, Dave does have a point, in that even before you take into account our specific issues as a club, this season is not a normal one by any stretch of the imagination. The late start and the postponements due to Covid infections (plus postponements due to the weather, but that's a bit more normal) causing a really compressed playing schedule, the lack of fans in grounds, and the impact on players of worries about the health and well-being of their loved ones during the pandemic mean that results were always going to be a lot more random this year. When you compound that with the impact of ESI on our squad, both in terms of the failure to renew contracts last season and not being able to rebuild before the salary cap came in, meaning that we had less flexibility over signing an already reduced pool of players, then bouncing straight back up was always going to be a big job. We don't have a divine right to go back up just because we're a big club for this level, look at how long Portsmouth have been down here, and neither Sunderland or Ipswich have exactly been pulling up trees. Perhaps I'm at an advantage as my expectations for this season were never especially high, so I'm getting less wound up by us being a bit crap at times than some of you.
For me, not wanting Bowyer out isn't a question of loyalty to the man over the club, it's about recognising that loyalty to the club requires taking a more long term view. After all the upheaval of the last few years, what we really need as a club is a degree of stability, particularly with all the uncertainty in wider society. In addition, having had an owner with a particularly itchy trigger finger when it comes to sacking managers not that long ago, I'd rather Thomas was a bit more patient rather than gambling with getting a new one in in the hope of making the play-offs, as that may colour perceptions of him too, both within the fanbase and the wider football community. I wouldn't say this season is a "free hit" but it's definitely a transitional one for all sorts of reasons, so we need to see how it pans out before making any major changes.
Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.
But all games played in second or third tier, as opposed to many in top tier with Curbs and another fella.
You can only use the stats, the players at disposal would have also differed greatly depending on the level played.
But would still argue that Curb’s position is artificially low as it’s harder to win matches in the Premier League than in League One (unless you have the budget of a Man City or a Chelsea, which Curbs didn’t). It’s still a decent win ratio for Bowyer, whatever the level though. 👍
The question comes down to Sandgaard's own plan and how much he himself sees it as a period of "transition" vs "immediate results".
The appointments he's made behind the scenes suggest that on a macro/business level he's definitely following a "transition" model as he's been clearing out and tidying up behind the scenes - probably this has taken precedence over the team for now.
Come the summer I imagine Bowyer will be given some very specific targets and goals to meet and a timeline. It might be at this point if there's no confidence that Bowyer can meet those targets that he pulls the trigger then and there - but that's unknowable at the moment.
It's very mature to say that we shouldn't be making changes now, to think of the longer term view etc
BUT if Bowyer was replaced by say Paul Cook who took us to the playoffs where we beat Sunderland again to reach the Championship, how many people here would then be complaining that we should have kept Bowyer?
I'm not saying that would be the outcome, indeed we could end up still missing out on promotion, but ultimately football is a results based business. Nobody gets forever to get results
Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.
But all games played in second or third tier, as opposed to many in top tier with Curbs and another fella.
You can only use the stats, the players at disposal would have also differed greatly depending on the level played.
Over the last fifty years Charlton have been either a struggling 1st Division / weak-medium-strong 2nd Division / very strong 3rd Division side. Our budget and therefore players at disposal reflect this reality.
I believe that Curbs would have kept us up last season. This season he would have us challenging properly for top two. (Both scenarios with the same budget). He may have bought different players and he certainly wouldn't have our defence in this mess.
Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.
But all games played in second or third tier, as opposed to many in top tier with Curbs and another fella.
You can only use the stats available, the players at disposal would have also differed greatly depending on the level played.
Over the last fifty years Charlton have been either a struggling 1st Division / weak-medium-strong 2nd Division / very strong 3rd Division side. Our budget and therefore players at disposal reflect this reality.
I believe that Curbs would have kept us up last season. This season he would have us challenging properly for top two. (Both scenarios with the same budget). He may have bought different players and he certainly wouldn't have our defence in this mess.
The statistics mean little.
I don't entirely disagree, but most managers win% falls towards the end of their reign. Most grow then fall away.
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as Manager
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.
I think the replacement if/when it happens will show who made the call in the first place. Obviously Thomas will have the final say but I highly doubt he will make any decision without taking "expert advice".
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as Manager
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as Manager
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.
I think the replacement if/when it happens will show who made the call in the first place. Obviously Thomas will have the final say but I highly doubt he will make any decision without taking "expert advice".
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.
Regardless if Bowyer goes or not, there needs to a major investment in coaching. It’s Bowyer and Jackson doing pretty much everything.
I’m sure JJ is a great coach but he’s not a defensive coach at all, neither is Bowyer. I really believe we can still be successful with the same management duo, but man do they need help.
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as Manager
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.
I think the replacement if/when it happens will show who made the call in the first place. Obviously Thomas will have the final say but I highly doubt he will make any decision without taking "expert advice".
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.
Regardless if Bowyer goes or not, there needs to a major investment in coaching. It’s Bowyer and Jackson doing pretty much everything.
I’m sure JJ is a great coach but he’s not a defensive coach at all, neither is Bowyer. I really believe we can still be successful with the same management duo, but man do they need help.
Yeah it's not only that though wasn't Roddy the author of the England DNA document?
I really wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a set up like Southampton and Swansea had were the "manager" is appointed based on their compatibility with the football ethos.
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as Manager
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?
Just not true at all. I’d have no issue with him appointing a Danish manager so how am I expecting everything to be negative?
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as Manager
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.
I think the replacement if/when it happens will show who made the call in the first place. Obviously Thomas will have the final say but I highly doubt he will make any decision without taking "expert advice".
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.
Regardless if Bowyer goes or not, there needs to a major investment in coaching. It’s Bowyer and Jackson doing pretty much everything.
I’m sure JJ is a great coach but he’s not a defensive coach at all, neither is Bowyer. I really believe we can still be successful with the same management duo, but man do they need help.
Yeah it's not only that though wasn't Roddy the author of the England DNA document?
I really wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a set up like Southampton and Swansea had were the "manager" is appointed based on their compatibility with the football ethos.
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as Manager
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?
Just not true at all. I’d have no issue with him appointing a Danish manager so how am I expecting everything to be negative?
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.
Fair enough if that's your stance mate. When I've seen it mentioned here previously, it was definitely meant with negative connotations, Roland mark II.
So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage is
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first place
Me neither but at least they had experience in the English game, weren’t out of the Douchbag’s pool of employees and we avoided Nobby Vinegar getting the gig.
It would have been so much fun if he was appointed.....and I'm being serious.
So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage is
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first place
Me neither but at least they had experience in the English game, weren’t out of the Douchbag’s pool of employees and we avoided Nobby Vinegar getting the gig.
It would have been so much fun if he was appointed.....and I'm being serious.
Robinson did a lot of good at the club. He persisted with a formation that wasn't working and you can draw some parallels with the current manager. The problem he faced was similar to what many managers face. He got in a rut and couldn't see the wood for the trees at the end. Bowyer came in and changed things and we started winning with the same players.
Robinson went up in my estimations at a Bromley supporters club meeting when he basically admitted to calling us "a basket case of a club". A shame he then took the p*** out of my height!
The question comes down to Sandgaard's own plan and how much he himself sees it as a period of "transition" vs "immediate results".
The appointments he's made behind the scenes suggest that on a macro/business level he's definitely following a "transition" model as he's been clearing out and tidying up behind the scenes - probably this has taken precedence over the team for now.
Come the summer I imagine Bowyer will be given some very specific targets and goals to meet and a timeline. It might be at this point if there's no confidence that Bowyer can meet those targets that he pulls the trigger then and there - but that's unknowable at the moment.
I'm confident Sandgaard will stick to his word about Bowyer and that he'll still be in charge for the start of next season.
Robinson did a lot of good at the club. He persisted with a formation that wasn't working and you can draw some parallels with the current manager. The problem he faced was similar to what many managers face. He got in a rut and couldn't see the wood for the trees at the end. Bowyer came in and changed things and we started winning with the same players.
Robinson went up in my estimations at a Bromley supporters club meeting when he basically admitted to calling us "a basket case of a club". A shame he then took the p*** out of my height!
So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage is
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first place
Me neither but at least they had experience in the English game, weren’t out of the Douchbag’s pool of employees and we avoided Nobby Vinegar getting the gig.
It would have been so much fun if he was appointed.....and I'm being serious.
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as Manager
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?
Just not true at all. I’d have no issue with him appointing a Danish manager so how am I expecting everything to be negative?
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.
But Roland lives in Belgium, and at the time already owned Belgian clubs like Liege and STTV. He was heavily involved in Belgian football before he took us over, appointing managers at his existing clubs.
Sandgaard has lived in America for 25 years, he has no involvement in Danish football, he's never owned a club there. I'd be staggered if he plucked someone out of Denmark to be the next manager, when surely Roddy is the person who would have more say.
Comments
For me, not wanting Bowyer out isn't a question of loyalty to the man over the club, it's about recognising that loyalty to the club requires taking a more long term view. After all the upheaval of the last few years, what we really need as a club is a degree of stability, particularly with all the uncertainty in wider society. In addition, having had an owner with a particularly itchy trigger finger when it comes to sacking managers not that long ago, I'd rather Thomas was a bit more patient rather than gambling with getting a new one in in the hope of making the play-offs, as that may colour perceptions of him too, both within the fanbase and the wider football community. I wouldn't say this season is a "free hit" but it's definitely a transitional one for all sorts of reasons, so we need to see how it pans out before making any major changes.
It’s still a decent win ratio for Bowyer, whatever the level though. 👍
The appointments he's made behind the scenes suggest that on a macro/business level he's definitely following a "transition" model as he's been clearing out and tidying up behind the scenes - probably this has taken precedence over the team for now.
Come the summer I imagine Bowyer will be given some very specific targets and goals to meet and a timeline. It might be at this point if there's no confidence that Bowyer can meet those targets that he pulls the trigger then and there - but that's unknowable at the moment.
BUT if Bowyer was replaced by say Paul Cook who took us to the playoffs where we beat Sunderland again to reach the Championship, how many people here would then be complaining that we should have kept Bowyer?
I'm not saying that would be the outcome, indeed we could end up still missing out on promotion, but ultimately football is a results based business. Nobody gets forever to get results
I believe that Curbs would have kept us up last season.
This season he would have us challenging properly for top two.
(Both scenarios with the same budget).
He may have bought different players and he certainly wouldn't have our defence in this mess.
The statistics mean little.
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.
I’m sure JJ is a great coach but he’s not a defensive coach at all, neither is Bowyer. I really believe we can still be successful with the same management duo, but man do they need help.
I really wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a set up like Southampton and Swansea had were the "manager" is appointed based on their compatibility with the football ethos.
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.
A shame he then took the p*** out of my height!
Sandgaard has lived in America for 25 years, he has no involvement in Danish football, he's never owned a club there. I'd be staggered if he plucked someone out of Denmark to be the next manager, when surely Roddy is the person who would have more say.