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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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Over the last fifty years Charlton have been either a struggling 1st Division / weak-medium-strong 2nd Division / very strong 3rd Division side. Our budget and therefore players at disposal reflect this reality.Dazzler21 said:
You can only use the stats, the players at disposal would have also differed greatly depending on the level played.JamesSeed said:
But all games played in second or third tier, as opposed to many in top tier with Curbs and another fella.Dazzler21 said:
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.esseffect said:Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.
I believe that Curbs would have kept us up last season.
This season he would have us challenging properly for top two.
(Both scenarios with the same budget).
He may have bought different players and he certainly wouldn't have our defence in this mess.
The statistics mean little.2 -
Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....23
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I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....0 -
I don't entirely disagree, but most managers win% falls towards the end of their reign. Most grow then fall away.jimmymelrose said:
Over the last fifty years Charlton have been either a struggling 1st Division / weak-medium-strong 2nd Division / very strong 3rd Division side. Our budget and therefore players at disposal reflect this reality.Dazzler21 said:
You can only use the stats available, the players at disposal would have also differed greatly depending on the level played.JamesSeed said:
But all games played in second or third tier, as opposed to many in top tier with Curbs and another fella.Dazzler21 said:
If you're going to troll everyone with your sarcasm every time anyone questions Bowyer on this thread it's going to become even more boring than it already is.esseffect said:Why do you need to see the first 65 and last 65? I think you know what you’re looking for lol
Let’s look at his win ratio in the last 1 game(s)... it’s 0%... he must go
This is a forum for discussing Charlton & this is a thread discussing whether Bowyer has or has not lost 'it' whatever that may be.
Why not add to the discussion with facts or opinions about the subject?
By the way we've had 30 managers since 1920 with recorded stats, of which the best win ratio in all comps is as follows:
If you limit this to those that have played 150 games in all comps (Bowyer's actual tally) the ratio table is as follows:
Or 100 games
Bowyer's win % is falling but is still currently above the vast majority of our managers.
I believe that Curbs would have kept us up last season.
This season he would have us challenging properly for top two.
(Both scenarios with the same budget).
He may have bought different players and he certainly wouldn't have our defence in this mess.
The statistics mean little.0 -
Only twits go on twitter.ElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....2 -
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
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Wow.ElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
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I think the replacement if/when it happens will show who made the call in the first place. Obviously Thomas will have the final say but I highly doubt he will make any decision without taking "expert advice".ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.2 -
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....13 -
Regardless if Bowyer goes or not, there needs to a major investment in coaching. It’s Bowyer and Jackson doing pretty much everything.Cafc43v3r said:
I think the replacement if/when it happens will show who made the call in the first place. Obviously Thomas will have the final say but I highly doubt he will make any decision without taking "expert advice".ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.
I’m sure JJ is a great coach but he’s not a defensive coach at all, neither is Bowyer. I really believe we can still be successful with the same management duo, but man do they need help.3 - Sponsored links:
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Yeah it's not only that though wasn't Roddy the author of the England DNA document?ElliotCAFC said:
Regardless if Bowyer goes or not, there needs to a major investment in coaching. It’s Bowyer and Jackson doing pretty much everything.Cafc43v3r said:
I think the replacement if/when it happens will show who made the call in the first place. Obviously Thomas will have the final say but I highly doubt he will make any decision without taking "expert advice".ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.
I’m sure JJ is a great coach but he’s not a defensive coach at all, neither is Bowyer. I really believe we can still be successful with the same management duo, but man do they need help.
I really wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a set up like Southampton and Swansea had were the "manager" is appointed based on their compatibility with the football ethos.1 -
I think its time for him to go, if Sandgaard is serious about his European ambitions he needs to upgrade from Bowyer. Better sooner than later.1
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This is what I've been thinking , I'm expecting a left field Thomas Frank type appointment when it comes to it.ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....1 -
Just not true at all. I’d have no issue with him appointing a Danish manager so how am I expecting everything to be negative?Croydon said:
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.0 -
I think that would be a really sensible modelCafc43v3r said:
Yeah it's not only that though wasn't Roddy the author of the England DNA document?ElliotCAFC said:
Regardless if Bowyer goes or not, there needs to a major investment in coaching. It’s Bowyer and Jackson doing pretty much everything.Cafc43v3r said:
I think the replacement if/when it happens will show who made the call in the first place. Obviously Thomas will have the final say but I highly doubt he will make any decision without taking "expert advice".ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
I also suspect there will be a major "football management" investment/restructure in the summer.
I’m sure JJ is a great coach but he’s not a defensive coach at all, neither is Bowyer. I really believe we can still be successful with the same management duo, but man do they need help.
I really wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a set up like Southampton and Swansea had were the "manager" is appointed based on their compatibility with the football ethos.4 -
Fair enough if that's your stance mate. When I've seen it mentioned here previously, it was definitely meant with negative connotations, Roland mark II.ElliotCAFC said:
Just not true at all. I’d have no issue with him appointing a Danish manager so how am I expecting everything to be negative?Croydon said:
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.1 -
Cracking post.charltonnick said:Win ratios only tell half the story , Lennie Lawrence is well down the table but he performed miracles getting Charlton in the top flight.0 -
It would have been so much fun if he was appointed.....and I'm being serious.RedChaser said:
Me neither but at least they had experience in the English game, weren’t out of the Douchbag’s pool of employees and we avoided Nobby Vinegar getting the gig.ForeverAddickted said:
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first placekillerandflash said:
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage isCafc43v3r said:
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...1 -
You and your sense of humour 😉.ElfsborgAddick said:
It would have been so much fun if he was appointed.....and I'm being serious.RedChaser said:
Me neither but at least they had experience in the English game, weren’t out of the Douchbag’s pool of employees and we avoided Nobby Vinegar getting the gig.ForeverAddickted said:
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first placekillerandflash said:
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage isCafc43v3r said:
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...1 -
Robinson went up in my estimations at a Bromley supporters club meeting when he basically admitted to calling us "a basket case of a club".MuttleyCAFC said:Robinson did a lot of good at the club. He persisted with a formation that wasn't working and you can draw some parallels with the current manager. The problem he faced was similar to what many managers face. He got in a rut and couldn't see the wood for the trees at the end. Bowyer came in and changed things and we started winning with the same players.
A shame he then took the p*** out of my height!3 - Sponsored links:
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I'm confident Sandgaard will stick to his word about Bowyer and that he'll still be in charge for the start of next season.thenewbie said:The question comes down to Sandgaard's own plan and how much he himself sees it as a period of "transition" vs "immediate results".
The appointments he's made behind the scenes suggest that on a macro/business level he's definitely following a "transition" model as he's been clearing out and tidying up behind the scenes - probably this has taken precedence over the team for now.
Come the summer I imagine Bowyer will be given some very specific targets and goals to meet and a timeline. It might be at this point if there's no confidence that Bowyer can meet those targets that he pulls the trigger then and there - but that's unknowable at the moment.1 -
No way! That’s well out of order 😉.ElfsborgAddick said:
Robinson went up in my estimations at a Bromley supporters club meeting when he basically admitted to calling us "a basket case of a club".MuttleyCAFC said:Robinson did a lot of good at the club. He persisted with a formation that wasn't working and you can draw some parallels with the current manager. The problem he faced was similar to what many managers face. He got in a rut and couldn't see the wood for the trees at the end. Bowyer came in and changed things and we started winning with the same players.
A shame he then took the p*** out of my height!1 -
Spot on.ElfsborgAddick said:
Cracking post.charltonnick said:Win ratios only tell half the story , Lennie Lawrence is well down the table but he performed miracles getting Charlton in the top flight.Only fair if it’s quoted on the same league!0 -
I need one dealing with you.RedChaser said:
You and your sense of humour 😉.ElfsborgAddick said:
It would have been so much fun if he was appointed.....and I'm being serious.RedChaser said:
Me neither but at least they had experience in the English game, weren’t out of the Douchbag’s pool of employees and we avoided Nobby Vinegar getting the gig.ForeverAddickted said:
Never wanted either of Slade or Robinson in the first placekillerandflash said:
He got a lot of draws, but I'm still shocked at how poor Russell Slade's win percentage isCafc43v3r said:
I am more surprised that Fraeye is above Peters.killerandflash said:So Karel Fraeye's win ratio (at the same Div 2 level too) is the same as Bob Stokoe's and only slightly worse than Eddie Firmani's! While Guy Luzon's is the 14th best overall...2 -
But Roland lives in Belgium, and at the time already owned Belgian clubs like Liege and STTV. He was heavily involved in Belgian football before he took us over, appointing managers at his existing clubs.ElliotCAFC said:
Just not true at all. I’d have no issue with him appointing a Danish manager so how am I expecting everything to be negative?Croydon said:
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.
Sandgaard has lived in America for 25 years, he has no involvement in Danish football, he's never owned a club there. I'd be staggered if he plucked someone out of Denmark to be the next manager, when surely Roddy is the person who would have more say.8 -
In that case everyone that hasn't managed in the top flight was a shite manager? Fair?dajavouslagan said:
Spot on.ElfsborgAddick said:
Cracking post.charltonnick said:Win ratios only tell half the story , Lennie Lawrence is well down the table but he performed miracles getting Charlton in the top flight.Only fair if it’s quoted on the same league!0 -
Sandgaard is a professional, he would look to his employed professionals for advice.killerandflash said:
But Roland lives in Belgium, and at the time already owned Belgian clubs like Liege and STTV. He was heavily involved in Belgian football before he took us over, appointing managers at his existing clubs.ElliotCAFC said:
Just not true at all. I’d have no issue with him appointing a Danish manager so how am I expecting everything to be negative?Croydon said:
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.
Sandgaard has lived in America for 25 years, he has no involvement in Danish football, he's never owned a club there. I'd be staggered if he plucked someone out of Denmark to be the next manager, when surely Roddy is the person who would have more say.
He (in my opinion) would not try to manage the club himself. He has hired people he can trust to do so.
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I'm glad to see the Bowyer Out people saying that win ratios need context.
That is, that it's not just about results, but the circumstances the manager is managing in at the time.
We completely agree.
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Yeah. And the argument was never that Bowyer didn't have a bad situation, just that he handled a bad situation badly.Chunes said:I'm glad to see the Bowyer Out people saying that win ratios need context.
That is, that it's not just about results, but the circumstances the manager is managing in at the time.
We completely agree.3 -
To be fair, I'm not the one making parallels between Roland and Sandgaard. Whatever Roland did was irrelevant to the situation we're in.killerandflash said:
But Roland lives in Belgium, and at the time already owned Belgian clubs like Liege and STTV. He was heavily involved in Belgian football before he took us over, appointing managers at his existing clubs.ElliotCAFC said:
Just not true at all. I’d have no issue with him appointing a Danish manager so how am I expecting everything to be negative?Croydon said:
Second time I've seen this said on this forum, and there's really no basis for it. Think some of you were so burned by Roland, that you just expect everything to be negative. Sandgaard's entire Charlton SMT is people with English football experience, why tf would he go against that trend with a punt on a manager?ElliotCAFC said:
It really wouldn’t surprise me if the next man in charge comes from the Danish leagues.ForeverAddickted said:
I've got a small feeling a lot of people will be disappointed with Sandgaard's next choice as ManagerElliotCAFC said:Quite a few people on Twitter are calling for Sandgaard to sack Bowyer and appoint Karl Robinson....
Sandgaard has a lot of people in Denmark he’s turning to for advice and he’s a big admirer of Thomas Frank at Brentford, someone he’s spoken to multiple times since taking over. We also saw how desperate he was to get Ronnie Schwartz into the club.
I’ve spoken to his son enough to see how much they both admire Danish people in football and Danish football in general. Roland appointed Belgians because it was easy, Sandgaard would do it because he believes it’s the best thing for the club.
Sandgaard has lived in America for 25 years, he has no involvement in Danish football, he's never owned a club there. I'd be staggered if he plucked someone out of Denmark to be the next manager, when surely Roddy is the person who would have more say.
Despite living in America, Sandgaard still has a lot of connections in Danish football. One of those connections is the Brentford and Midtjylland owner. I'm sure Roddy plays a role in decision making but ultimately it's up to the owner and what the owner wants to see.
If there's an exciting young Danish manager out there, I really believe Sandgaard would be a lot keener on getting someone like that rather than the likes of Paul Cook.0
This discussion has been closed.
