That Bowyer got dealt a bad hand last season and this season (pre Sandgaard) is a very valid point. The question is whether he played that hand very well.
Or another way of looking at it is questioning how much of his issues are outside his control and how many self inflicted.
How these are answered will decide your opinion on how well he's done and whether change is due.
“I think we are over-achieving, right now. So if we don’t make the play-offs then obviously that’s a discussion that the chairman, the owner Thomas, I’m sure we will have. But I believe that me and my staff – and the players we have got together now – we will give ourselves every opportunity and we will fight for every point.
I still can't get my head around this comment. Did he mean to say under achieving?? He says we are over achieving, but admits if we don't make the playoffs then there's a conversation to be had with the owner.
Over achieving seems contradictory to the rest of the statement. It doesn't make sense!!
Plus we badly missed Gallagher after he left, I think it’s a safe bet to say if we had kept Gallagher & had Taylor for the run in we wouldn’t have gone down. Neither of those were ultimately Bowyers fault. I think it’s really harsh to say it was Bowyers fault we got relegated, if he’d kept us up it would of been a miracle
Every word of that is true. Of course it is not his fault, that's very different to saying he was faultless though.
Yeah I agree with you, he definitely wasn’t faultless. But he is still relatively new to management, I know he’s had a few seasons now but he’s probably still learning. I don’t know what the answer is? Am I enjoying this season, not really apart from the odd periods of play & wins. I just feel sacking Bowyer is the wrong move. He’s been very loyal to use, I just think he’s owed this season to see if he can turn it around. Like I say I do think the people who want Bowyer to go have valid points, I’m just not there yet
“I think we are over-achieving, right now. So if we don’t make the play-offs then obviously that’s a discussion that the chairman, the owner Thomas, I’m sure we will have. But I believe that me and my staff – and the players we have got together now – we will give ourselves every opportunity and we will fight for every point.
I still can't get my head around this comment. Did he mean to say under achieving?? He says we are over achieving, but admits if we don't make the playoffs then there's a conversation to be had with the owner.
Over achieving seems contradictory to the rest of the statement. It doesn't make sense!!
No - he definitely meant to say “overachieving” because he said it twice post match on Saturday. It’s, frankly, nuts.
“I think we are over-achieving, right now. So if we don’t make the play-offs then obviously that’s a discussion that the chairman, the owner Thomas, I’m sure we will have. But I believe that me and my staff – and the players we have got together now – we will give ourselves every opportunity and we will fight for every point.
I still can't get my head around this comment. Did he mean to say under achieving?? He says we are over achieving, but admits if we don't make the playoffs then there's a conversation to be had with the owner.
Over achieving seems contradictory to the rest of the statement. It doesn't make sense!!
I think that the scenario Thomas was aiming at with the playoffs as a minimum, then the comment of over achieving is def wrong, however, Bowyer is basing his comments on the expected as against the actual place we are in. Based on our fiasco of ownership, the embargo, and the non pre season, with so many players leaving and any replacements coming in a couple of weeks before the window closed, then Thomas's dream seems a long way off.. hence we are in Bowyers eyes over achieving. As the report said, we started very much on the back foot as opposed to anyone else, Wigan accepted in the league, maybe Bowyers words seemed a bit strange in our current position, but as he sees it, we are not doing great but need to up the game a bit. Let's see what Thomas thinks of his words.
Sick of reading this propaganda telling us every league 1 player is able to score 'Worldies' against us.
Why is that? It's a pretty simple combination of the goalkeeper being too slow to react to long shots (but surprisingly decent at dealing with close up poachers) and the centre backs and CM's not closing players at the edge of the box. If you couple this with a lack of trust between the goalkeeper and defence in one another's abilities to deal with threats it causes hesitation and is costing us.
Because the defence aren't closing quickly the opposition players around 20 -30 yards out can hit a shot and the arc of the shot, because of the range will likely at least force a save (Ignoring if it's an easy or at a stretch save). We don't get those same opportunities because we spend too much time dribbling into the 18 and then trying to sidefoot the ball to Aneke or shooting from almost impossible angles.
To improve defence we need a defensive coach brought in to study our previous games footage and show our current crop how to improve on where we are failing. On top of this, we do need a big solid pairing, one with pace and passing ability and one with power and strength in the air. Ideally both can do both, but won't be at this level.
We have a lot of coaches but not a single coach that specialises in defence.
Manager Lee Bowyer - A box to box midfielder with an eye for goal Assistant Manager Johnnie Jackson - A box to box midfielder with an eye for goal First Team Goalkeeping Coach Andy Marshall - Goalkeeper First Team Development Coach - Grant Basey - Steady Left Back Lead Sports Scientist/Fitness Coach Josh Hornby Strength & Conditioning Coach Ian Jones Head Physio Danny Murphy Physio Adam Coe Asst Physio Steve Jackson Performance Analyst Brett Shaw
Bowyer and Jackson should be fine for sorting the stuff further up the field, but it's not right that we don't have a proper defensive coach.
Sadly, that tweet is divisive rubbish. Nobody is revelling in wanting Bowyer out. They think it is best for the club. I can honestly say, I never wanted Lennie out, I never wanted Curbs out and I never wanted Powell out.
I said no team was as gutless as us in the run in and we should have stayed up.
Can't recall exactly, but wasn't Luton's run in form like Man City's current form? For them and Barnsley to hit form was unlucky for us at a time when our form was dreadful. I wonder what the form of the three bottom teams with 6 games to go has been each season. I'd bet last season in the Championship takes some beating.
If Bowyer does stay until the summer then this is probably the biggest summer of his managerial career so far.
No excuses, he has the time and the money to build a squad that should win the league.
If he is given next season it will be make or break for his career in management IMO, especially if the excuses have all dried up. No salary cap, a willing owner, an opportunity to keep/clear who he wants.
Blaming Bowyer for our relegation is complex. We can blame him for promotion in the first place, we can blame him for keeping our heads above water through the injuries and we can blame him for being a bit too negative at the death when it turned out we only needed a point.
I said no team was as gutless as us in the run in and we should have stayed up.
Can't recall exactly, but wasn't Luton's run in form like Man City's current form? For them and Barnsley to hit form was unlucky for us at a time when our form was dreadful. I wonder what the form of the three bottom teams with 6 games to go has been each season. I'd bet last season in the Championship takes some beating.
Yeah and Lutons form came exactly the same time Bowyer said they were fucked and definitely relegated.
Let’s not forget we should have stayed up last season. No other team was as goalless as us during the run in.
Corrected for you, was always going to be very difficult to stay up when Bonne was our only player left who scored more than 3 goals last season. Plenty of managers would have got relegated long before the last game with the limited resources and other issues Bowyer had to deal with.
I mean it was Barnsley and Luton who finished ahead of us on the final day, hardly like they were spending millions themselves. Then the same again with Wigan who only finished behind us because of a points deduction.
We had even lower budgets and them plus all the off the field nonsense to deal with. Can’t win games without goals - where were they coming from after the season restarted, other than Bonne?
To be honest all my issues with Bowyer are to do with now and our current situation rather than last year, and never really had major issues with him in our relegation in terms of job security. But the question you are asking in terms of where could the goals have come from I think is giving him a bit too much rope and leniency. Our midfielders could have scored a few more if we didn't constantly sit back in the last 30 minutes of games with a lead or when level.
I don't think it's a massive leap to suggest Aneke/Hemed could have added a few more goals in a more attacking style of play, they weren't great but not exactly Pawel Abbott useless. I've always been a Bonne defender (and still am) but he scored the majority of our goals because we were set up for only him or maybe Alfie to do so.
So in terms of the current discussion of whether last season is a write off in terms of people wanting Bowyer out, I think the vast majority with myself included were more than happy to go into this year with Bowyer, seeing last year as a learning curve for him to pick us back up in the division below, however those same situations are happening so it's a longer period of time to judge him on, even if he was let off the hook a bit (rightly so) last year with the situation we were in.
I’ve resigned myself to the fact that we won’t be going up this season. I just want to see us give it a go till the end of the campaign and then really do some good business in the summer, get a proper team together that will win the league next year infront of a packed valley and good away turnouts. I’d love to do that under a proper Charlton man like Bowyer.
If Bowyer does stay until the summer then this is probably the biggest summer of his managerial career so far.
No excuses, he has the time and the money to build a squad that should win the league.
If he is given next season it will be make or break for his career in management IMO, especially if the excuses have all dried up. No salary cap, a willing owner, an opportunity to keep/clear who he wants.
Big, big season.
He does need to drop the excuses.
He needs to remember having respect understanding and warmth for his players.
Lyle Taylor probably ruined that vibe...as bowyer most likely treated him like a brother and got the best out of him. Only to eventually get treated in a disrespectful way and the feelings obviously weren't mutual.
Aribo and Taylor are both earning good money now.
I think he's just partially quite fed up with players attitudes in general. It doesn't reflect himself and his competitive spirit.
He wouldn't just run away. Unless it was for a good reason.
I said no team was as gutless as us in the run in and we should have stayed up.
Can't recall exactly, but wasn't Luton's run in form like Man City's current form? For them and Barnsley to hit form was unlucky for us at a time when our form was dreadful. I wonder what the form of the three bottom teams with 6 games to go has been each season. I'd bet last season in the Championship takes some beating.
I can't recall the others but there were a few but I can definitely remember Birmingham away. 1-0 up and maybe ten minutes to go we were looking set fair for a crucial three points, that would ultimately have kept us up, but Bowyer saw fit to bring on defensive reinforcements and we, as we invariably do under Bowyer, dropped deeper and deeper inviting the pressure on and, lo and behold, with no surprise to anyone, we concede a last gasp equaliser. I maintain Bowyer lost us that game. As a result we were relegated.
He got a free hit because of the off field shenanigans but that isn't to say he wasn't at fault. The last ten games or so we were so negative and that's on him, in my opinion.
Comments
Or another way of looking at it is questioning how much of his issues are outside his control and how many self inflicted.
How these are answered will decide your opinion on how well he's done and whether change is due.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/its-not-fair-to-judge-charlton-athletic-or-lee-bowyer-at-this-juncture-of-the-league-one-campaign/
I still can't get my head around this comment. Did he mean to say under achieving?? He says we are over achieving, but admits if we don't make the playoffs then there's a conversation to be had with the owner.
Over achieving seems contradictory to the rest of the statement. It doesn't make sense!!
Based on our fiasco of ownership, the embargo, and the non pre season, with so many players leaving and any replacements coming in a couple of weeks before the window closed, then Thomas's dream seems a long way off.. hence we are in Bowyers eyes over achieving.
As the report said, we started very much on the back foot as opposed to anyone else, Wigan accepted
in the league, maybe Bowyers words seemed a bit strange in our current position, but as he sees it, we are not doing great but need to up the game a bit.
Let's see what Thomas thinks of his words.
This week Hull and Donny lose and Lincoln draw, win would have helped us but we screw it up again.
Why is that?
It's a pretty simple combination of the goalkeeper being too slow to react to long shots (but surprisingly decent at dealing with close up poachers) and the centre backs and CM's not closing players at the edge of the box. If you couple this with a lack of trust between the goalkeeper and defence in one another's abilities to deal with threats it causes hesitation and is costing us.
Because the defence aren't closing quickly the opposition players around 20 -30 yards out can hit a shot and the arc of the shot, because of the range will likely at least force a save (Ignoring if it's an easy or at a stretch save). We don't get those same opportunities because we spend too much time dribbling into the 18 and then trying to sidefoot the ball to Aneke or shooting from almost impossible angles.
To improve defence we need a defensive coach brought in to study our previous games footage and show our current crop how to improve on where we are failing. On top of this, we do need a big solid pairing, one with pace and passing ability and one with power and strength in the air. Ideally both can do both, but won't be at this level.
We have a lot of coaches but not a single coach that specialises in defence.
Manager Lee Bowyer - A box to box midfielder with an eye for goal
Assistant Manager Johnnie Jackson - A box to box midfielder with an eye for goal
First Team Goalkeeping Coach Andy Marshall - Goalkeeper
First Team Development Coach - Grant Basey - Steady Left Back
Lead Sports Scientist/Fitness Coach Josh Hornby
Strength & Conditioning Coach Ian Jones
Head Physio Danny Murphy
Physio Adam Coe
Asst Physio Steve Jackson
Performance Analyst Brett Shaw
Bowyer and Jackson should be fine for sorting the stuff further up the field, but it's not right that we don't have a proper defensive coach.
I wonder what the form of the three bottom teams with 6 games to go has been each season. I'd bet last season in the Championship takes some beating.
No excuses, he has the time and the money to build a squad that should win the league.
Big, big season.
To be honest all my issues with Bowyer are to do with now and our current situation rather than last year, and never really had major issues with him in our relegation in terms of job security. But the question you are asking in terms of where could the goals have come from I think is giving him a bit too much rope and leniency. Our midfielders could have scored a few more if we didn't constantly sit back in the last 30 minutes of games with a lead or when level.
I don't think it's a massive leap to suggest Aneke/Hemed could have added a few more goals in a more attacking style of play, they weren't great but not exactly Pawel Abbott useless. I've always been a Bonne defender (and still am) but he scored the majority of our goals because we were set up for only him or maybe Alfie to do so.
So in terms of the current discussion of whether last season is a write off in terms of people wanting Bowyer out, I think the vast majority with myself included were more than happy to go into this year with Bowyer, seeing last year as a learning curve for him to pick us back up in the division below, however those same situations are happening so it's a longer period of time to judge him on, even if he was let off the hook a bit (rightly so) last year with the situation we were in.
He does need to drop the excuses.
He needs to remember having respect understanding and warmth for his players.
Lyle Taylor probably ruined that vibe...as bowyer most likely treated him like a brother and got the best out of him. Only to eventually get treated in a disrespectful way and the feelings obviously weren't mutual.
Aribo and Taylor are both earning good money now.
I think he's just partially quite fed up with players attitudes in general. It doesn't reflect himself and his competitive spirit.
He wouldn't just run away. Unless it was for a good reason.
I can't recall the others but there were a few but I can definitely remember Birmingham away. 1-0 up and maybe ten minutes to go we were looking set fair for a crucial three points, that would ultimately have kept us up, but Bowyer saw fit to bring on defensive reinforcements and we, as we invariably do under Bowyer, dropped deeper and deeper inviting the pressure on and, lo and behold, with no surprise to anyone, we concede a last gasp equaliser. I maintain Bowyer lost us that game. As a result we were relegated.
He got a free hit because of the off field shenanigans but that isn't to say he wasn't at fault. The last ten games or so we were so negative and that's on him, in my opinion.