Yes, that is where i would play him but he is above the level. When people pick on him and not players that are playing below the level, it is pretty telling.
If you watched that first half again, Williams was not the problem. Tidy with the ball, made a few decent runs. Great cross that Aneke should have done better with, great header in box that just didn't fall for Aneke. Got into good positions a number of times but ball didn't come to him. Had a great chance he should have done better with, but he got in the position and Shinnie and others did the same.
I'm not saying it was a MOTM performance or even his best. But if you are going to blame him or be ultra critical of him over it, it is more looking for a scapegoat than anything else.
Fine . So how do you explain the fact we played a hundred times better when he came off?
Bowyer changed shape to accommodate Shinnie.
Shinnie pulled the strings from central midfield; Williams was expected to play mostly from wide.
The team had lost it's a way a bit, after the lucky deflection 2nd Swindon goal. Bowyer felt he needed a different approach. That's not necessarily the fault of Williams.
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
Apart from the understandable snipes at Bowyer and why not he has been culpable? The next mantra trotted out is, "you wait till our two best defenders get back..." How long have you lot been supporting Charlton?
As a positive, Deji is looking half decent as a centre half. I'm not saying he is better than Inniss and Famewo, but it seems to me to stabilise in the short term we have one gap to fill.
A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals.
Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.
People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry
On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result
Which players aren't good enough?
Not rocket science is it.
What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit. Make you mind up man child.
Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf
What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material
Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.
Hardly screams best team in the league to me.
I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out?
Did you not watch us in the championship last season? Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?
You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt? Because what they have produced in one is bench at best.
Shinnie is shit is he? Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us). Don't think Purrington is league 1? Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.
Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune.
You forgot Jayden. But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day.
So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?
I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit. These are not bad players. They are All better than what they are producing. You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you?
Totally agree. It is part of the problem for me. People are seriously underrating the quality of the squad for the level, and by doing so not exposing the weaknesses of the manager.
This I think is a key question/point of difference between the "Bowyer deserves time" and the "buck stops at Bowyer" divide.
I don't think anyone wants Bowyer sacked for the sake of it. I think everyone would agree that in an ideal world Bowyer would take us back to the prem and have Curb like legand status.
I think we have 25 senior pros on the books, John Sheridan would take all 25, including Bogle, yet we can't beat his team over 2 attempts.
People need to ask 2 questions. 1) why can't Bowyer get these players playing together and 2) Why can't Bowyer get a formation that gets more than 2 or 3 of his best attacking players in the same team, why he signed them all?
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
Our squad, even without Inniss and Famewo, is so much better than what we've been churning out for the last couple of months. Absolutely no way we should be sat mid table
I don't know mate I don't think we can underestimate the impact of such a poor central defence....and that is not to criticise deji, Pratley or Gunter who have been patched in there as I would put them as full backs rather than CMs naturally.
Add into that Pearce's loss of form since his return and it has been a colossal weakness in such an integral part of the team.
Probably have had the weakest central defence in the past 2 months in the league i.e. i doubt any other manager in league one would swap any of their defensive partnerships for our recent ones (Pearce excluded).
Seems to have had a knock on effect across the back 4 with only Maatsen seemingly consistently performing well (and standing out as a result). Doesn't seem to be any confidence at the back at it becomes self perpetuating awaiting for mistakes to occur which they seem to for ever game.
Now perhaps Bowyer could be criticised for not having enough back up but then in reality who would have believed we'd lose both iniss and Famewo for so long at the same time and captain fantastic Pearce would return a shadow of his former self after doing well enough in the championship.
With the wage cap, exodus and chaotic off the field end to last season that carried on over the summer it's a wonder we are even competing and testament that so many are disappointed.
Said it at the start of the season when takeover happened that expectations were wildly out of sync with reality in that yes we have a great new owner but it's not a magic bullet that's suddenly going to undo the inertia of recent years and we just need to stabilise and get back to normality this season.
It was always going to be a slog even more so after losing 2 colossal signings like iniss and Famewo.
A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals.
Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.
People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry
On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result
Which players aren't good enough?
Not rocket science is it.
What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit. Make you mind up man child.
Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf
What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material
Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.
Hardly screams best team in the league to me.
I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out?
Did you not watch us in the championship last season? Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?
You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt? Because what they have produced in one is bench at best.
Shinnie is shit is he? Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us). Don't think Purrington is league 1? Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.
Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune.
You forgot Jayden. But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day.
So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?
I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit. These are not bad players. They are All better than what they are producing. You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you?
Totally agree. It is part of the problem for me. People are seriously underrating the quality of the squad for the level, and by doing so not exposing the weaknesses of the manager.
This I think is a key question/point of difference between the "Bowyer deserves time" and the "buck stops at Bowyer" divide.
I don't think anyone wants Bowyer sacked for the sake of it. I think everyone would agree that in an ideal world Bowyer would take us back to the prem and have Curb like legand status.
I think we have 25 senior pros on the books, John Sheridan would take all 25, including Bogle, yet we can't beat his team over 2 attempts.
People need to ask 2 questions. 1) why can't Bowyer get these players playing together and 2) Why can't Bowyer get a formation that gets more than 2 or 3 of his best attacking players in the same team, why he signed them all?
Wish I could give you 100 likes.
Wish I could give you both 100 flags
You can't because a certain poster used them all up!
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble. Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are?
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble. Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are?
Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!???
A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals.
Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.
People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry
On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result
Which players aren't good enough?
Not rocket science is it.
What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit. Make you mind up man child.
Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf
What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material
Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.
Hardly screams best team in the league to me.
I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out?
Did you not watch us in the championship last season? Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?
You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt? Because what they have produced in one is bench at best.
Shinnie is shit is he? Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us). Don't think Purrington is league 1? Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.
Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune.
You forgot Jayden. But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day.
So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?
I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit. These are not bad players. They are All better than what they are producing. You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you?
Ok first of all appreciate you not being petty in your post, genuinely.
I did watch us unfortunately. Pratley is a player who thrives in a backs against the wall game, he is chasing shadows usually, Williams although can play ball is lightweight and will never have a 40+ game season I don't think and Matthews is a bit of a mystery I guess, I thought he was brilliant last season, this he has been very average. For his wage I don't think we can afford to have him and Gunter and based on this season I would prefer Gunter, so far.
I put them in because I've seen their previous games or highlights via YouTube and of the small glimpses I have seen of them it's fairly obvious they can offer something, just a hunch.
I never said Shinnie was bad, I didn't mention loan signings because there's no guarantee we keep them, I would love to keep Shinnie, Stockley, Famewo and Millar but I don't think we will keep any. As for Purrs let's have it right, he was a bit of a passenger in a decent side, he's an average league 1 player, won't be why you lose, won't be why you win (apart from one special goal at Wembley haha) we could do better I would say.
My comments were in regards to who I would build upon next season.
No I don't think it's good enough but I understand our circumstance. Before this season started people were saying they were happy to have a safety season, get new owners in and rebuild. We get the owner and all of a sudden we want instant success. You give Bowyer this season, a full transfer window, time to play the players he wants when they're fit and we will win this league, I am 99% confident of that. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to say I was, as obviously I am Charlton over a manager
As things stand though that manager has done enough to warrant some loyalty, he hasn't lost the dressing room (absolute myth), we do show signs of good football under him and it's a manager we would have long term.
I don't want to be a Watford type nor do I want to let go of a manager who has proven he can gain promotion out of this league for some of the managers that have been suggested. Curbs is the only fit but even then that wouldn't sit right with me, Lee is the man
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble. Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are?
Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!???
Don't worry mate, the geezer thinks he knows better than everybody else.
Firmly on Bowyer's side after listening to his post-match comments. We're in a place at the moment when nothing is going for us. But the signs are good and one decent run and we will be bang in the mix.
I agree totally. Imo we are still a decent bet for automatic promotion there are still alot of points available and once we get over this blip we wont lose many games I dont think
Automatic promotion !!!
You're living on a different planet mate. Hull are top & just smashed Pompey 4-0. They have a PLUS 20 goal difference. No way are we catching them.
And this isn't a blip. That is our new normal. Been saying it for weeks & weeks but some if you don't want to hear it.
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble. Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are?
Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!???
No YOU didn't MENTION shit and dregs but implying that the manger is doing well, or even better than expected, suggests you don't rate the players?
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble. Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are?
Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!???
Don't worry mate, the geezer thinks he knows better than everybody else.
I can assure you that "the geezer" doesn't.
Maybe you could tell which players we have that are shit. As no one else can?
Either the players aren't good enough to beat bottom 4 league 1 teams or there is something else wrong.
We’re sliding into mid table obscurity, which with this squad is really embarrassing. Change of manager would likely be best i think
Still 6th though...
But the team above us have 2 extra points and 4 games in hand. Everyone else has at least 2 games in hand. It's going to look more bleak when they're caught up. Not to mention those below us with games to play.
If they win their games in hand. A few weeks back, we were the ones with games in hand - but we didn’t win them...
I didn't watch the stream so not going to comment on the game. I have just seen the 2 min highlights from Sky. Looks like on a different day we would have won it. But it wasn't a different day. It was the same one we have been re-living over & over again. Unlucky to hit the post & bar.......maybe, but other teams score in those positions- certainly against us they do. Schwartz's chance early on was no different to Smozdics on tuesday evening (2nd goal). He buried it whereas we didnt.
Just forget about this season. Too many teams around us have games in hand & teams like Oxford aren't that far behind us either now. Yes, we could go on a run like we did on October - but even then teams around us could do similar. Looks like we are in for another season in this proxy division. Only comfort is that at least we got to go to Wembley in 2019 - Peterborough & Ipswich fans will have to watch the Final from indoors.
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble. Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are?
Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!???
No YOU didn't MENTION shit and dregs but implying that the manger is doing well, or even better than expected, suggests you don't rate the players?
To be honest, I’m giving my ‘head a wobble’ (whatever that means) trying to establish why I am engaging with someone like you. Let’s just agree to disagree treacle 😘
Firmly on Bowyer's side after listening to his post-match comments. We're in a place at the moment when nothing is going for us. But the signs are good and one decent run and we will be bang in the mix.
I agree totally. Imo we are still a decent bet for automatic promotion there are still alot of points available and once we get over this blip we wont lose many games I dont think
Automatic promotion !!!
You're living on a different planet mate. Hull are top & just smashed Pompey 4-0. They have a PLUS 20 goal difference. No way are we catching them.
And this isn't a blip. That is our new normal. Been saying it for weeks & weeks but some if you don't want to hear it.
Reckon everyone can see what the results have been mate. No one needs a weather man to tell em it's pissing down
I think where opinions differ is -
- Who is to blame for the bad run / "blip" - Whether this was ever gonna be a promotion or bust season, with Bowyer's position on the line.
A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals.
Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.
People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry
On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result
Which players aren't good enough?
Not rocket science is it.
What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit. Make you mind up man child.
Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf
What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material
Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.
Hardly screams best team in the league to me.
I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out?
Did you not watch us in the championship last season? Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?
You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt? Because what they have produced in one is bench at best.
Shinnie is shit is he? Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us). Don't think Purrington is league 1? Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.
Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune.
You forgot Jayden. But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day.
So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?
I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit. These are not bad players. They are All better than what they are producing. You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you?
Ok first of all appreciate you not being petty in your post, genuinely.
I did watch us unfortunately. Pratley is a player who thrives in a backs against the wall game, he is chasing shadows usually, Williams although can play ball is lightweight and will never have a 40+ game season I don't think and Matthews is a bit of a mystery I guess, I thought he was brilliant last season, this he has been very average. For his wage I don't think we can afford to have him and Gunter and based on this season I would prefer Gunter, so far.
I put them in because I've seen their previous games or highlights via YouTube and of the small glimpses I have seen of them it's fairly obvious they can offer something, just a hunch.
I never said Shinnie was bad, I didn't mention loan signings because there's no guarantee we keep them, I would love to keep Shinnie, Stockley, Famewo and Millar but I don't think we will keep any. As for Purrs let's have it right, he was a bit of a passenger in a decent side, he's an average league 1 player, won't be why you lose, won't be why you win (apart from one special goal at Wembley haha) we could do better I would say.
My comments were in regards to who I would build upon next season.
No I don't think it's good enough but I understand our circumstance. Before this season started people were saying they were happy to have a safety season, get new owners in and rebuild. We get the owner and all of a sudden we want instant success. You give Bowyer this season, a full transfer window, time to play the players he wants when they're fit and we will win this league, I am 99% confident of that. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to say I was, as obviously I am Charlton over a manager
As things stand though that manager has done enough to warrant some loyalty, he hasn't lost the dressing room (absolute myth), we do show signs of good football under him and it's a manager we would have long term.
I don't want to be a Watford type nor do I want to let go of a manager who has proven he can gain promotion out of this league for some of the managers that have been suggested. Curbs is the only fit but even then that wouldn't sit right with me, Lee is the man
I don't disagree with 99% of what you said but......
Let me put it like this do you think signing a load of 30+ year olds, on multiple year contracts is rebuilding?
Regardless of the rhetoric the facts are we have multiple 30 year olds that will eat into next season wage cap. Bowyer him self said something along the lines of "if I can sign the players I want we will get in the play offs". They included Gunter, Watson and Maddison as minum.
We are paying them significantly more than the cap average. He wanted them, they aren't playing well. Who is to blame?
If he had signed 1 or 2 more "projects" and less "for now" players I think we would all agree that 6th, for now, was acceptable and he should be given time. He didn't. That's the choices you make as a manager. He can't now get out of it in the summer because of the contracts. So as I see it it's if not now, when?
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
The wage cap which we never had to deal with in those prior instances for one thing. Every single season stuck in League One will gradually wear down the quality of the squad and make it harder and harder to attract good quality players. Which in turn would mean that if we DID make it up in a hypothetical three seasons time we'd need the greatest transfer window the club has ever known to stand a chance if staying up.
Sandgaard says he has a long term plan, and he probably does. But that probably does necessitate a degree of ruthlessness on his part...
As a positive, Deji is looking half decent as a centre half. I'm not saying he is better than Inniss and Famewo, but it seems to me to stabilise in the short term we have one gap to fill.
Yet Bowyer refused to play him for almost 2 months, instead he played Pratley and Gunter there.
Now, if he was wrong about that I wonder if he could be wrong about not playing Barker. Maybe....maybe not. But we wont know if he doesn't try it. And at least having a youngster playing in his natural position might be better than playing old pro's out of position.
I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ?
If you think Doughty is/was our best players you, along with several others, need to give your head a wobble. Can you, hopefully as no one else can, tell me who these shit "dregs that one one wanted" players are?
Who was our best player then out of the squad at the beginning of the season ? Give my head a wobble ? It’s subjective and I felt that Alfie was a game changer, but I am sure you know better. Not sure what your second sentence means ? I never mentioned ‘shit’ or ‘dregs’ or ‘no one wanted’ !!!???
No YOU didn't MENTION shit and dregs but implying that the manger is doing well, or even better than expected, suggests you don't rate the players?
To be honest, I’m giving my ‘head a wobble’ (whatever that means) trying to establish why I am engaging with someone like you. Let’s just agree to disagree treacle 😘
I've been roamin' around, always lookin' down at all I see
Painted faces fill the places I can't reach
You know that I could use somebody
You know that I could use somebody
Someone like you and all you know and how you speak
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Take care in gargar land were everything is rosie. I would love to pop in sometime 😘😘
Comments
Shinnie pulled the strings from central midfield; Williams was expected to play mostly from wide.
The team had lost it's a way a bit, after the lucky deflection 2nd Swindon goal.
Bowyer felt he needed a different approach. That's not necessarily the fault of Williams.
Add into that Pearce's loss of form since his return and it has been a colossal weakness in such an integral part of the team.
Probably have had the weakest central defence in the past 2 months in the league i.e. i doubt any other manager in league one would swap any of their defensive partnerships for our recent ones (Pearce excluded).
Seems to have had a knock on effect across the back 4 with only Maatsen seemingly consistently performing well (and standing out as a result). Doesn't seem to be any confidence at the back at it becomes self perpetuating awaiting for mistakes to occur which they seem to for ever game.
Now perhaps Bowyer could be criticised for not having enough back up but then in reality who would have believed we'd lose both iniss and Famewo for so long at the same time and captain fantastic Pearce would return a shadow of his former self after doing well enough in the championship.
With the wage cap, exodus and chaotic off the field end to last season that carried on over the summer it's a wonder we are even competing and testament that so many are disappointed.
Said it at the start of the season when takeover happened that expectations were wildly out of sync with reality in that yes we have a great new owner but it's not a magic bullet that's suddenly going to undo the inertia of recent years and we just need to stabilise and get back to normality this season.
It was always going to be a slog even more so after losing 2 colossal signings like iniss and Famewo.
I did watch us unfortunately. Pratley is a player who thrives in a backs against the wall game, he is chasing shadows usually, Williams although can play ball is lightweight and will never have a 40+ game season I don't think and Matthews is a bit of a mystery I guess, I thought he was brilliant last season, this he has been very average. For his wage I don't think we can afford to have him and Gunter and based on this season I would prefer Gunter, so far.
I put them in because I've seen their previous games or highlights via YouTube and of the small glimpses I have seen of them it's fairly obvious they can offer something, just a hunch.
I never said Shinnie was bad, I didn't mention loan signings because there's no guarantee we keep them, I would love to keep Shinnie, Stockley, Famewo and Millar but I don't think we will keep any. As for Purrs let's have it right, he was a bit of a passenger in a decent side, he's an average league 1 player, won't be why you lose, won't be why you win (apart from one special goal at Wembley haha) we could do better I would say.
My comments were in regards to who I would build upon next season.
No I don't think it's good enough but I understand our circumstance. Before this season started people were saying they were happy to have a safety season, get new owners in and rebuild. We get the owner and all of a sudden we want instant success. You give Bowyer this season, a full transfer window, time to play the players he wants when they're fit and we will win this league, I am 99% confident of that. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to say I was, as obviously I am Charlton over a manager
As things stand though that manager has done enough to warrant some loyalty, he hasn't lost the dressing room (absolute myth), we do show signs of good football under him and it's a manager we would have long term.
I don't want to be a Watford type nor do I want to let go of a manager who has proven he can gain promotion out of this league for some of the managers that have been suggested. Curbs is the only fit but even then that wouldn't sit right with me, Lee is the man
You're living on a different planet mate. Hull are top & just smashed Pompey 4-0. They have a PLUS 20 goal difference. No way are we catching them.
And this isn't a blip. That is our new normal. Been saying it for weeks & weeks but some if you don't want to hear it.
Maybe you could tell which players we have that are shit. As no one else can?
Either the players aren't good enough to beat bottom 4 league 1 teams or there is something else wrong.
If its the players, please tell me which ones.
Just forget about this season. Too many teams around us have games in hand & teams like Oxford aren't that far behind us either now. Yes, we could go on a run like we did on October - but even then teams around us could do similar. Looks like we are in for another season in this proxy division. Only comfort is that at least we got to go to Wembley in 2019 - Peterborough & Ipswich fans will have to watch the Final from indoors.
There is always next season.
I think where opinions differ is -
- Who is to blame for the bad run / "blip"
- Whether this was ever gonna be a promotion or bust season, with Bowyer's position on the line.
Let me put it like this do you think signing a load of 30+ year olds, on multiple year contracts is rebuilding?
Regardless of the rhetoric the facts are we have multiple 30 year olds that will eat into next season wage cap. Bowyer him self said something along the lines of "if I can sign the players I want we will get in the play offs". They included Gunter, Watson and Maddison as minum.
We are paying them significantly more than the cap average. He wanted them, they aren't playing well. Who is to blame?
If he had signed 1 or 2 more "projects" and less "for now" players I think we would all agree that 6th, for now, was acceptable and he should be given time. He didn't. That's the choices you make as a manager. He can't now get out of it in the summer because of the contracts. So as I see it it's if not now, when?
Sandgaard says he has a long term plan, and he probably does. But that probably does necessitate a degree of ruthlessness on his part...
I just expected better from a 100 cap international and not making every pass 50/50
Now, if he was wrong about that I wonder if he could be wrong about not playing Barker. Maybe....maybe not. But we wont know if he doesn't try it. And at least having a youngster playing in his natural position might be better than playing old pro's out of position.
Can't do much worse imo.
Take care in gargar land were everything is rosie. I would love to pop in sometime 😘😘