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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Swindon | Sat 23 Jan 2021

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    I was thinking the same, we seem to be conceding from most shots on target.

     I'm not happy with that at all. We can blame the defence all we like, but some shots will get past them and that's why you have a goalkeeper. Ours has failed to deal with too many shots of late.

    The defence could well be making it harder to get clean shots off though.
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    So what happens if akin or Ryan comes back or and breaks down again in the first game and we haven't bothered to bring in another cb? 
    Didn’t Akin comeback and do that earlier on ? Or was he suspended came back and got injured , sell my memory 
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    No you're right Oohaah, he came back from his hamstring injury and then in training allegedly cleared a ball and landed funny hurting his ankle.
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    Swindon played 23
    won 6 
    drawn 3 (two against us )
    lost 14 
    scored 31 
    conceded 47 
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    edited January 2021
    Interesting that both yesterday and in the away 2-2 at Swindon, they only had 2 shots on target and both went in. Could Amos be doing better? That means in both those games he failed to save any shots on target.
    Glad someone else is asking the question finally. I really think Amos is a big part of why we are letting in so many goals from so little shots conceded. 

    He’s got talent and his season with us that helped get us into the play-offs was a decent one but he’s never held down a spot in a higher league. We need to bring in better and younger once his contract is up.


    I liked the look of their keeper Travers today - just signed on loan from Bournemouth. Also Baxter at Accrington on loan from Chelsea looked very assured. The kind of young keepers we should be targeting as the squad is rebuilt.
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    I thought Amos had a fair few questions to ask against Rochdale. If Elliott can’t get a club this window, might be worth the cap hit and sign him as a kick up the arse to Amos
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    Amos  2   In line with the number of goals he lets in on average . Should be the number on his jersey to reflect it.  Whilst one was deflected the other was more rubbish keeping. 

    Matthews  4   Seems he was better in the Championship.  Sunderland fans thought  so.

    Gunter        4    CB he is not.

    Osilaja          6   Would have been higher but for the deflected goal.

    Maatsen      5    Bowyer has to rest him. If he was on our books he would have by now. 

    Williams      4.0  Sadly goes to ground too often and can't  tackle.. being small didn't  stop Bremner  , Alan Ball , Peter Hunt and many others 

    Pratley         5.0 better in  midfield but also better in the Championship. 

    Foster-Caskey  7.0  Hurray for a consistent player.

    Millar              7.0 As above

    Aneke              6.0 Hit and miss . Shocking miss twice actually 

    Schwartz         5.0  unlucky twice but strangely invisible too much.

    Shinnie             7.0  extra for the goal 

    Pearce             Probably  should have started. Gu term not the solution 

    Washington    Actually made a difference.  He was unlucky  with a difficult chance that he created by excellent movement at the front.

    Stockley         Difficult to draw a conclusion but could work with Washington. 

    Morgan         6.5   looked good when he came on.

    Referee          5.5. At least not card happy 
     You've missed marks for 3 players
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    Regarding Washington's miss. I notice when he's in that forward right position (has happened before), he always takes the ball even further to the right and virtually defends his own attack! 

    You don't get better than your forward having a 1on1 to win a game in the 90+ minute of the game. Peterborough showed how to take them.
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    mendonca said:
    Regarding Washington's miss. I notice when he's in that forward right position (has happened before), he always takes the ball even further to the right and virtually defends his own attack! 

    You don't get better than your forward having a 1on1 to win a game in the 90+ minute of the game. Peterborough showed how to take them.
    We never seem to convert one on ones,Chucks against Rochdale,Ronnie and Washington yesterday,Bogle ( cant remember who against) Other teams playing us dont often miss.
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    mendonca said:
    Regarding Washington's miss. I notice when he's in that forward right position (has happened before), he always takes the ball even further to the right and virtually defends his own attack! 

    You don't get better than your forward having a 1on1 to win a game in the 90+ minute of the game. Peterborough showed how to take them.
    We never seem to convert one on ones,Chucks against Rochdale,Ronnie and Washington yesterday,Bogle ( cant remember who against) Other teams playing us dont often miss.
    Defending is more of an issue.
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    Cafc43v3r said:
    Jonniesta said:
    If you can only win when your best 11 players are available then you're not a good football manager - you just have 11 good players. 

    Using injuries to the the CB's as an excuse for bowyer over the last 2 months just shows you don't understand what the managers job is. Especially when he's had an open transfer window to address the issue. 

    We played the 2nd worst team in the league today and we have CM in Pratley who's only quality is in disruption of the opposition. If you are the better team, the better squad, you impose your game on the other team and make them deal with your qualities. Look how many chances Morgan and Shinnie created for us in 30 minutes, why not let one of them start the game and put us on the front foot? Instead we have Pratley who only passes backwards, sideways and gives away fouls. We are literally handing initiative to the opposition at the start of every game and are surprised when they score from it. Yes mistakes are being made, but it's a consequence of where we are on the field and what the mindset is. Do you really think all these individual mistakes have no relation to how we are setting up for games? That we just coincidentally have experienced pro's all making mistakes at the same time? 

    It's the same thing we have all seen time and time again when we are leading and bowyer goes defensive - the mindset changes, we lose all initiative and then we concede maybe because someone makes a mistake. Bowyer then blames said player for making the mistake, but guess what - if we don't go ultra defensive we don't put all the players under all the extra pressure and we lessen the likelihood of the mistake happening.

    Bowyer isn't seeing the relationship between these events and adjusting. He spent most of last 10 weeks playing the blame game and now he's just waiting for his best 11 players to be available again and hoping that we have enough time for them to get us out of the hole currently being dug.
    Don't completely agree with this because I don't think today's game went as you said. We were on the front foot... we had 2 chances before Swindon scored, and they scored through a chronic bit of keeping. I also think the decline in Pearce since his return is as bad as I've seen in a player. The Pearce of last year was a good cb... no need to fill during the window. Williams and Millar created good chances. 

    More generally, Bowyer has made mistakes yes. Smyth at RB being the worst (but that was made with the intention of being on the front foot). Liverpool are struggling without 2 key centre backs... is Klopp suddenly crap? 

    Sorry, but for me the blame lies more with the players than the manager. Too many are not putting in the effort and quality of which they are capable. Tactically, today's line up should've led to a 3 or 4 goal win. Peterborough was the same, we played well with 2 complete individual cock ups. 

    I've said before that he's made mistakes..
     Playing Maatsen out of position seems to have shot his confidence, same with Gunter. But lose Inniss, Famewo, Doughty, Shinnie from any side for a sustained period... that's a big problem at this level. And he's transformed JFC into a top performer, brought Williams back from the nothing of last year, put faith in Aneke... those count as much in the positive column as the Maatsen debacle does in the negative. 
    You could also argue that the 5 points we have from the last 4 games, with sightly better performances that the previous month or so, could have been 9 or even 10 if the players had a bit more confidence. 

    In both themselves and what they are being asked to do if the confused selections, punishment subs and the all round blame game hadn't happened.

    The year + bad run has happened because Bowyer is doing exactly the opposite of what he did in his 1st 2 years.    Trust the process and success will come.

    The process seems to have been discarded for quite some time, and so have the performances. 
     I do agree Bowyer changed his approach following last season's injuries, you're definitely correct that he seems to have lost faith in what made him a success in the first place, but I guess I'm more forgiving for 2 reasons 
    1: I genuinely believe any other manager, especially one we could afford, would have suffered as badly with the 2 injury crises we've had and the negativity around the club with the lies and the under investment. We were being run into the ground, it takes time for everyone to recover.
    2. More importantly, what I'm seeing on the pitch is us getting better, and playing some good attacking football. We had 18 shots yesterday. 
    So, whilst I do definitely get your argument, this is why he has more time for me. 
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    edited January 2021
    Dazzler21 said:
    Maybe it's a good opportunity to begin to blood in Maynard-Brewer.

    I say No even if Maynard-Brewer didn't have Concussion and has missed the last two matches.

    I thought Amos had a poor game yesterday and has now conceded 3 goals at the valley coming from hard shots from acute angles on his right side. Ben will work on this with the Cafc goalkeeper coach and just like Nick Pope who had the problem with the shot low and at his body, he will sort it out.

    If making mistakes get a Keeper booted out the First team, Lloris, Pickford and David de Gea wouldn't still be their respective number 1's. All 3 do make good saves as well.

    Plus it's really not a good idea to put a young keeper in when the defence in front of him is so flaky.

    Neil Etheridge was a young keeper at Cafc when he found himself between the sticks at Watford. Neil was all at sea for one goal but made a couple of good saves.
    5-0 defeat but could have been 8.

    I got 3 prediction right that day:

    Watford would give us a thumping.
    Etheridge would be the scapegoat. 
    Katherine Meire would get abuse on the train after the game, probably by a fan who  had a skinful.

    Trust me, I was on the train going to Watford and she was opposite,  everyone just ignored her and I said if she travels back with the fans she will get stick.
    Alcohol always loosen tongues.

    Lee Bowyer should carry on with the approach of yesterday, but try to sort out the shape of the team when we are being counter attacked. The CB weren't the problem yesterday but the full backs were.

    We are about to go on a good run !

    And I don't just mean Liam Millar. 
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    I've  been wondering why we didn't cancel Famewo's loan when he got a lengthy injury and brought somebody else in?
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    Dazzler21 said:
    Maybe it's a good opportunity to begin to blood in Maynard-Brewer.

    I say No even if Maynard-Brewer didn't have Concussion and has missed the last two matches.

    I thought Amos had a poor game yesterday and has now conceded 3 goals at the valley coming from hard shots from acute angles on his right side. Ben will work on this with the Cafc goalkeeper coach and just like Nick Pope who had the problem with the shot low and at his body, he will sort it out.

    If making mistakes get a Keeper booted out the First team, Lloris, Pickford and David de Gea wouldn't still be their respective number 1's. All 3 do make good saves as well.

    Plus it's really not a good idea to put a young keeper in when the defence in front of him is so flaky.

    Neil Etheridge was a young keeper at Cafc when he found himself between the sticks at Watford. Neil was all at sea for one goal but made a couple of good saves.
    5-0 defeat but could have been 8.

    I got 3 prediction right that day:

    Watford would give us a thumping.
    Etheridge would be the scapegoat. 
    Katherine Meire would get abuse on the train after the game, probably by a fan who  had a skinful.

    Trust me, I was on the train going to Watford and she was opposite,  everyone just ignored her and I said if she travels back with the fans she will get stick.
    Alcohol loosens tongues.

    Lee Bowyer, carry on with the approach of yesterday, but try to sort out the shape of the team when we are being counter attacked. The CB weren't the problem yesterday but the full backs were.

    We are about to go on a good run !

    And I don't just mean Liam Millar. 
    Amos should have saved the first yesterday and was beaten by a deflection for the second. Overall this season he's done a decent job.

    We've conceded too many goals which are down to a mixture of bad luck, poor defending and poor organisation. Players and management are both culpable.

    If we take our chances scoring won't be an issue but winning games will be difficult unless we stop shipping goals. Let's hope the next couple of games see improved defensive displays.
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    Cafc43v3r said:
    I hate the fact that some Charlton fans think we we are somehow entitled to promotion. That drawing with Swindon is ‘below’ us (it’s frustrating but not terminal). This season was always going to be tough. Relegated in the last minute, ownership chaos, half the squad left (including most of our quality players), short pre season, under embargo for some of the transfer window, late signings under the wage cap, patched up the defence with 2 good centre halves (then both get long term injuries), best player (Doughty) out etc etc. Of course we all want promotion, of course we are not defending well enough, of course we are not taking our chances. But we need to give Bowyer a proper summer window, a full pre season and a proper chance to rebuild. We are on a desperately bad run of form, but sacking Bowyer is not the answer. Let’s give the guy a break and see what he can do. Lenny Lawrence, Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell all had bad runs and ultimately had successful periods because they got the club and got the fans. I am convinced Bowyer is the same... we’ve dropped to this league 3 times in recent history and it took 3 seasons each time to get back up, what’s the big panic now ? 
    I know the like system is meant to avoid posts like this, but I can't help but quote and say what a level headed post, I wish more of our fans saw it like this. 

    Some of the names I am seeing on twitter, Cowleys, Cook etc, none of them will get Charlton like Bowyer do and would be off at the first opportunity.


    Genuinely intrested but do you think "getting Charlton" is more important than short term/medium term success?  

    Second question do you think Bowyer stayed because he "got Charlton" or he got paid a reasonable amount, doesn't actually need the job and has a family settled in the area?

    Third question if Leeds, Westham, Newcastle or one of the "big six" offered Bowyer their managers job do you think he would stay? 
    Local lad, came through the ranks, understands our culture, understands the fan base. How many clubs have a local lad as their manager? It's why I was so attached to Curbs and Powell, Charlton men. I don't see how that's hard to get..

    I think he stayed because he felt like this was the right club for him and has us in our best interests.

    As for your third question, luckily according to our expert fan base that's something that will never happen cause he hasn't got a clue allegedly and loses dressing rooms? I'll cross that bridge when it comes to it but I can only assume if that hypothetical situation ever happened we would be in the championship and doing well, leaving us in a better state than what he came in. Can't argue with that but even then I don't think he leaves unless he is asked to or isn't being backed.

    Riga, Peeters, Luzon, Fraeye, Slade. Just a few more reasons why I am happy with the manager who we have. 

    We will go up, I don't care if it's this season or the next, or the next, he will take us up and we will be stronger for it when it happens with a side ready to go up. Why the desperation to get up with a league 1 side and probably come straight back down. I want to go up like Wolves, Sheffield United, Leicester, Southampton, Norwich, Bristol City, Blackburn, us with Powell etc did. Go up with a squad with momentum that is good enough to hold their own in one of the most competitive leagues in the world, not a patch work league 1 team.

    Would people be happier if we did what Wigan, Barnsley and Rotherham have been doing? Constant yo-yoin and sacking the manager mid season. Something I've got no interest in 
    Superb post to wake up and read. Sums it up perfectly for me. 
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    Dazzler21 said:
    2 wins or go for me now.
    We need promotion this season, the situation gets worse next.
    Dazzler21 said:
    Maybe it's a good opportunity to begin to blood in Maynard-Brewer.
    On one page of this thread you say Bowyer has to go if we don’t win next 2 games as need promotion. 

    Next page you’re floating the idea of playing someone with almost no first team experience in goal. 
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    edited January 2021
    I think we have broadly expanded what 'jumping out of a tackle' means. Williams & Maddison pulled their legs out of a 50/50 because they didn't fancy getting whacked. 

    I don't look at Millar's tackle and think that's what's happened, it's not even a 50/50. To me it looks like a winger's attempt at a tackle.

    But can hardly accuse Millar of shirking his defensive duties, bloke was the hardest worker on the pitch yesterday. And he did run back and nick it off people. It was his harrying that forced the passback for the Schwarz chance. 
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    Dazzler21 said:
    Maybe it's a good opportunity to begin to blood in Maynard-Brewer.

    I say No even if Maynard-Brewer didn't have Concussion and has missed the last two matches.

    I thought Amos had a poor game yesterday and has now conceded 3 goals at the valley coming from hard shots from acute angles on his right side. Ben will work on this with the Cafc goalkeeper coach and just like Nick Pope who had the problem with the shot low and at his body, he will sort it out.

    If making mistakes get a Keeper booted out the First team, Lloris, Pickford and David de Gea wouldn't still be their respective number 1's. All 3 do make good saves as well.

    Plus it's really not a good idea to put a young keeper in when the defence in front of him is so flaky.

    Neil Etheridge was a young keeper at Cafc when he found himself between the sticks at Watford. Neil was all at sea for one goal but made a couple of good saves.
    5-0 defeat but could have been 8.

    I got 3 prediction right that day:

    Watford would give us a thumping.
    Etheridge would be the scapegoat. 
    Katherine Meire would get abuse on the train after the game, probably by a fan who  had a skinful.

    Trust me, I was on the train going to Watford and she was opposite,  everyone just ignored her and I said if she travels back with the fans she will get stick.
    Alcohol always loosen tongues.

    Lee Bowyer should carry on with the approach of yesterday, but try to sort out the shape of the team when we are being counter attacked. The CB weren't the problem yesterday but the full backs were.

    We are about to go on a good run !

    And I don't just mean Liam Millar. 
    Big difference with Pope and Amos. Pope was a kid really and could learn whilst Amos is a seasoned keeper and still hasn’t mastered his trade.
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    Chunes said:
    Can’t defend since 2 CB’s got injured, absolute shambles at the back, Christ knows what goes on in training same old every week, chaotic shambles. 
    I agree but I thought our CB pairing today were very good and were untroubled all game. Just a shame Matthews decided to drop a clanger.
    Many got their wish of Matthews at right back .... Gunter is my preferred choice but obviously Pearce pony so he got moved there .
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    Chunes said:
    I think we have broadly expanded what 'jumping out of a tackle' means. Williams & Maddison pulled their legs out of a 50/50 because they didn't fancy getting whacked. 

    I don't look at Millar's tackle and think that's what's happened, it's not even a 50/50. To me it looks like a winger's attempt at a tackle.

    But can hardly accuse Millar of shirking his defensive duties, bloke was the hardest worker on the pitch yesterday. And he did run back and nick it off people. It was his harrying that forced the passback for the Schwarz chance. 
    I think Millar decided not to give a free kick away as very likely that if he put a foot in he probably would have been booked and ended up with a dangerous free kick. Probably the wrong decision but he still had a lot to do to score from that position.
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    Cafc43v3r said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    A draw isn't good enough but it was an entertaining game which we should have won by about 4 goals. 

    Blame the manager all you want, Amos could have done better, Matthews should have done better and then Shinnie, Aneke and Washington all missed golden chances where it could have been 5-2 at least.

    People will obviously be ecstatic though cause it's a chance to be negative and angry

    On the to next game where hopefully we can defend and our quality can show and get us a result 
    Which players aren't good enough?

    Not rocket science is it.

    What quality, you told me 2 hours ago the players were shit.  Make you mind up man child. 
    Seems man child has struck home a bit my bad, if you didn't act like one I wouldn't feel the need to say it though tbf

    What I'll do to make it is easier is list the players who I think are good enough/bench material

    XI: Innis, Aneke, Schwartz, JFC, Watson, Gunter, Maddison

    Bench: Oshilaja, Morgan, Washington, Pratley

    Everyone else is either a loan or not good enough or I think we can improve on.

    Hardly screams best team in the league to me.

    I'll keep saying this, I keep reading we have one of the best teams in the division, yet no one (I assume!) watches other side's play as much as Charlton or could name players other than the obvious ones. It's arrogance at its finest and nothing more than guess work. Here is my take, I've seen in excess of 6 or so players who would start for us or at least make the bench, maybe more if I think hard enough so how could our squad possibly be as strong as made out? 


    Did you not watch us in the championship last season?   Matthews, Williams, Partley didn't perform there?

    You put Maddison and Schwartz in your 1st eleven because of, I assume, because of what you have either seen or read about, of them not in a Charlton shirt?  Because what they have produced in one is bench at best. 

    Shinnie is shit is he?  Obviously Millar (who has done more in a Charlton shirt than Schwartz) or Amos (who if he had signed for us, not a championship side would have ment Phillips never played for us).  Don't think Purrington is league 1?  Looked it when he played for us in league 1 in 2019.

    Maatsen is, as you rightly say, totally shit, maybe you should get a job at Chelsea and save them a fortune. 

    You forgot Jayden.  But obviously, from your comment, loans don't count on the day. 

    So you still think 2 points, and 4 goals conceded, against the mighty Swindon is good enough?

    I have watched more football in my life than I would care to admit.  These are not bad players.  They are All better than what they are producing.  You can't blame anyone other than the manager can you? 

    Totally agree. It is part of the problem for me. People are seriously underrating the quality of the squad for the level, and by doing so not exposing the weaknesses of the manager. 
    This I think is a key question/point of difference between the "Bowyer deserves time" and the "buck stops at Bowyer" divide.

    I don't think anyone wants Bowyer sacked for the sake of it.  I think everyone would agree that in an ideal world Bowyer would take us back to the prem and have Curb like legand status. 

    I think we have 25 senior pros on the books, John Sheridan would take all 25, including Bogle, yet we can't beat his team over 2 attempts. 

    People need to ask 2 questions.  1) why can't Bowyer get these players playing together and 2) Why can't Bowyer get a formation that gets more than 2 or 3 of his best attacking players in the same team, why he signed them all? 
    Wish I could give you 100 likes. 
    Wish I could give you both 100 flags
    Fully agree mate 
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    PWR

    This is the worst league one I can remember and we will finish mid table under bowyer.

    If we have any hopes of going up, bowyer has to go.
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    Those saying the results are not good enough are 100% right. 

    But we’ve definitely improved game by game over the last three games and the shape of the side is starting to look much more settled and familiar. 

    People see ‘bad luck’ as a nothing excuse, but there were so many chances that should / could have been goals, yet we continue to get punished so easily. Matthews and Amos will be hugely disappointed with the mistakes they made for the first.

    Stockley looks like a good edition, Millar is a breath of fresh air, JFC and Deji continued their good form. 

    Hugely frustrating. I know some will see this as rose tinted but I still feel if we win one game, get our strongest team fit and playing consistently, well have the potential to go on a run of getting 24/25 points out of 30. 

    Time is undoubtedly running out though 
    Ifs buts and maybes. We have been losing  week on week for over a year, bar a 7 game run this season.

    We also won the other week against Bristol rovers and we haven’t won since. 
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    J BLOCK said:
    Those saying the results are not good enough are 100% right. 

    But we’ve definitely improved game by game over the last three games and the shape of the side is starting to look much more settled and familiar. 

    People see ‘bad luck’ as a nothing excuse, but there were so many chances that should / could have been goals, yet we continue to get punished so easily. Matthews and Amos will be hugely disappointed with the mistakes they made for the first.

    Stockley looks like a good edition, Millar is a breath of fresh air, JFC and Deji continued their good form. 

    Hugely frustrating. I know some will see this as rose tinted but I still feel if we win one game, get our strongest team fit and playing consistently, well have the potential to go on a run of getting 24/25 points out of 30. 

    Time is undoubtedly running out though 
    Ifs buts and maybes. We have been losing  week on week for over a year, bar a 7 game run this season.

    We also won the other week against Bristol rovers and we haven’t won since. 
    If buts and maybes? ... yet that is exactly what you are doing! 

    J BLOCK said:
    PWR

    This is the worst league one I can remember and we will finish mid table under bowyer.

    If we have any hopes of going up, bowyer has to go.

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    edited January 2021
    J BLOCK said:
    PWR

    This is the worst league one I can remember and we will finish mid table under bowyer.

    If we have any hopes of going up, bowyer has to go.
    Whats your basis on it being the worst League One that you can remember as I would say its harder

    So many teams down here now that should be challenging... Ipswich, Peterborough, Sunderland, Portsmouth, Hull, Doncaster, Charlton even Wigan should be up there based on past seasons in League One and the fact all have been in the Championship over the last decade 

    Discount the latter and thats still seven teams fighting for six spots, so one team was always going to be guaranteed to be disappointed come May and that was before you threw in the one team that always surprises, in this case Lincoln

    2011/12 was certainly easier as you only had Sheffield United | Wednesday | Huddersfield to worry about
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