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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Blackpool | Sat 27 Feb 2021
Comments
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Why can't people understand that there's nuance to these situations and that more than one thing can be true at once? Is the team underperforming? Yes. Should Bowyer get criticism and the sack for that if he can't fix it? Yes. Do we think Bowyer is a liar who has made up a story about the players not caring? Up to you, but it would be a hell of an accusation to make. Should the players also be criticised for deciding to stop giving a shit about playing for the club if they don't like the manager or don't feel like trying? Yes. All these things can be true. Just giving the players a pass because you don't like the manager is ridiculous. I honestly can't fathom the idea that people can shrug their shoulders at what we're hearing and say 'but the manager, I don't like the manager'. If Bowyer goes we'll still have a team of players who can decide at any point that they don't feel like turning up, and that needs addressing.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If you have a lot of players in a squad who don't appear to care then the first thing you'd look at would be the manager - it's hardly rocket science. Too much of a coincidence that so many players are underperforming under him.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
He deserves the sack based on results - that's his job.
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I respect Sandgaard and appreciate what he has done and is doing for us so I don't want to call not buying any more Valley Passes until Bowyer goes a protest on my part. I promise to buy the games again as soon as he is sacked even if we are playing for nothing.0
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This should be printed out in caps & sent to Bowyer.Addick Addict said:"Pick the best 11. But they can’t physically go Saturday Tuesday Saturday”
I've got news for you Lee. Since Mick McCarthy took charge at Cardiff, they have:
played 9 games in 31 days
won 6 Drawn 3
had 11 players appear in at least 8 of those 9 matches
And McCarthy did not sign any of the players to appear either
Up until the 1990's cup games would go to replay after replay until settled. Only 1 substitute too. Look at Forests European Cup winning team of 1979. 70 games they played that season. 8 games in March & 9 in April. And the same players played most weeks.
Even Curbs said that Bows should try playing the same team on Tuesday as switching players in & out just isn't working.1 -
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As much as bowyer has made some bad decisions etc , the players downing tools wether they like the manager or not is totally unacceptable, that is the only sympathy bowyer is getting, the under performing players are wankers and should all be binned3
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You can inspire and motivate players Lee. I think there is a word for it. What is it now? Management I think!6
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Couldn’t agree more... his time was up for me when he started calling out players and subbing subs... shows his lack of man management skillsCafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.9 -
I'm guessing the pay-off could be significant, given that Southall probably wasn't the toughest negotiator on contractual issues - not least because neither he, nor any of his phoney associates, were ever going to be around to meet those obligations. I'm sure that won't inhibit Thomas, once he identifies a suitable successor. If things continue as they are, I'd like to see an interim appointment/caretaker manager brought in, as we can't go on like this.
An ugly situation but Bowyer's self-justificatory comments only tend to reinforce the view that he is a busted flush - as I think, deep down, he knows.3 -
That's crap, Golfie.golfaddick said:
Sounds to me like he wants to be sacked.......Doesn't want to resign though.LouisMend said:
So it's all about the £££££ then. Oh sorry.......€€€€€ as he wants to to back to France.
That's just your assumption. Guesswork. And you're trying to pass it off as fact.
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Dazzler, we get on mate but he's been absolute shit.Dazzler21 said:
Shinnie who had 4 assists in 5 games before today?Charltonparklane said:The other week we had Morgan on the pitch who had two shots, one which hit the bar And Bows moaned he should have passed it, took him off at ht.
Yet he persists with Shinnie, Pratley, Watson who are just dreadful.
He has lost it, completely and utterly.
Watch his work rate and effort.
Yes haes had 4 assist, 2 corners?
What's his input since September?
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28 months at whatever is salary is. A quick internet search suggests an average for his level is about £10k per month (I've no idea how accurate this would be), but it could well be a cool quarter of a million.mendonca said:How much difference in levels of compensation between him being sacked and resigning?1 -
Thomas must have been hoping we’d have a chance of promotion this season. Then, promotion or not, splash the cash on a few new players. Job done.I wonder what he’s thinking now it looks like we need a major clear out and a rebuild, just to have a chance of promotion next year. Or the year after. The five/six year plan is already in doubt.:-(1
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Quite simple, Bowyer should have been sacked weeks ago .. whether the players are not good enough or are just not playing for the manager is irrelevant, Bowyer selects them, and they are not responding to his management. One more point, I hope that Sandy is not just another absentee owner who just does not have his finger on the pulse of what is going on with his club.2
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To be honest, and I have to take my share of the blame with most other Charlton fans - we were demanding the inept Southall who needed the truth deflecting sorted the contract out. We didn't expect Bowyer was going to change beyond recognition but if what I have been told is true, it is a lot of unplanned money for Thomas to have to fork out if he sacks him!Blucher said:I'm guessing the pay-off could be significant, given that Southall probably wasn't the toughest negotiator on contractual issues - not least because neither he, nor any of his phoney associates, were ever going to be around to meet those obligations. I'm sure that won't inhibit Thomas, once he identifies a suitable successor. If things continue as they are, I'd like to see an interim appointment/caretaker manager brought in, as we can't go on like this.
An ugly situation but Bowyer's self-justificatory comments only tend to reinforce the view that he is a busted flush - as I think, deep down, he knows.0 -
Lee Bowyer Athletic.usetobunkin said:Lee played at Prem Level for many years and has a Prem mentality. If he was told to play as holding midfielder in diamond he would know what the manager wanted and he cared so much he chined Dyer because he wasn't pulling his weight.
The players he is dealing with now would on the whole struggle to get into a Championship side , or are taking wages at the tail end of their career.
He needs to keep things simple, get them 1yd fitter, and practise their first touch. Play 4-4-2 , blood some of the youngsters, and get ready for next term. Remember Curbs had his set backs before he got going, the structure is in place. We don't want another manager merry go round, remember Bows could have walked but he didn't , time for us as supporters to hold our nerve, and show him the same loyalty he showed us1 -
I agree, he started off way to good for this division but has been pants recently, like he doesn't care.Charltonparklane said:
Dazzler, we get on mate but he's been absolute shit.Dazzler21 said:
Shinnie who had 4 assists in 5 games before today?Charltonparklane said:The other week we had Morgan on the pitch who had two shots, one which hit the bar And Bows moaned he should have passed it, took him off at ht.
Yet he persists with Shinnie, Pratley, Watson who are just dreadful.
He has lost it, completely and utterly.
Watch his work rate and effort.
Yes haes had 4 assist, 2 corners?
What's his input since September?0 -
I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.9
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Lee can't manage these players and can't get the best out of them. It's too much of a coincidence how many players are underperforming under his management.Garrymanilow said:
Why can't people understand that there's nuance to these situations and that more than one thing can be true at once? Is the team underperforming? Yes. Should Bowyer get criticism and the sack for that if he can't fix it? Yes. Do we think Bowyer is a liar who has made up a story about the players not caring? Up to you, but it would be a hell of an accusation to make. Should the players also be criticised for deciding to stop giving a shit about playing for the club if they don't like the manager or don't feel like trying? Yes. All these things can be true. Just giving the players a pass because you don't like the manager is ridiculous. I honestly can't fathom the idea that people can shrug their shoulders at what we're hearing and say 'but the manager, I don't like the manager'. If Bowyer goes we'll still have a team of players who can decide at any point that they don't feel like turning up, and that needs addressing.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If you have a lot of players in a squad who don't appear to care then the first thing you'd look at would be the manager - it's hardly rocket science. Too much of a coincidence that so many players are underperforming under him.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
He deserves the sack based on results - that's his job.
It's always the sign of a poor manager who starts calling out the players. Bowyer must have had some influence in signing these players.
Lee's devotees will invariably blame the players rather than face up to his shortcomings.6 -
From league 2?lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.1 - Sponsored links:
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Naive if thats the case. We haven’t had a proper infrastructure of transfers for several years and it was clear even before he came in that a large amount of players were out of contract this coming summer. I don’t see our Sandgaard and his team looked at our squad and thought summer 2021 would need a few new players only.JamesSeed said:Thomas must have been hoping we’d have a chance of promotion this season. Then, promotion or not, splash the cash on a few new players. Job done.I wonder what he’s thinking now it looks like we need a major clear out and a rebuild, just to have a chance of promotion next year. Or the year after. The five/six year plan is already in doubt.:-(1 -
Well, if you read my first 3 words......Oggy Red said:
That's crap, Golfie.golfaddick said:
Sounds to me like he wants to be sacked.......Doesn't want to resign though.LouisMend said:
So it's all about the £££££ then. Oh sorry.......€€€€€ as he wants to to back to France.
That's just your assumption. Guesswork. And you're trying to pass it off as fact.
Sounds to ME.
Not trying to pass anything off as fact. Just me reading it as I did.1 -
I thought he got rid of the bad apples. Now people and Bowyer himself is trying to say they are f*ing all bad apples. Ridiculous.3
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Have avoided reading through all the posts on here, this is my take on the game.
The worrying thing for me reference Lee Bowyer is his comments post match comments on Valley pass.
It was if he was watching a different game to me.
Blackpool were by far the better side.
They looked organised, fitter than us, sharper than us and technically superior.
I think our players tried but just weren't good enough.
The first penalty looked like a penalty as soon as the bloke was brought down.
The second penalty was a joke, the ref. should be embarrassed when he see's that again.
Pratley should have been replaced at half time, he'd had a warning from the ref. and was a sending off waiting to happen, aided by a vocal group of Blackpool players.
Chucks, will be contested, so not sure about that one.
We didn't have a shot on target all game, which says it all really.
Where will we go from here, I'm not sure.
T.S. should be concerned as we appear to be going backwards.
I feel the next few days could and maybe should see a new chapter in the Charlton saga.
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Kept all the 'good eggs'MuttleyCAFC said:I thought he got rid of the bad apples. Now people and Bowyer himself is trying to say they are f*ing all bad apples. Ridiculous.
Watson, Pearce, Pratley, Shinnie, Washington0 -
I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.7
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We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got.Charltonparklane said:
From league 2?lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.1 -
Thanks. I was trying to look for an approx figure. Bow's will keep going then until he gets his near £1m payoff. A situation that poor Thomas never thought would have arisen so soon!Stig said:
28 months at whatever is salary is. A quick internet search suggests an average for his level is about £10k per month (I've no idea how accurate this would be), but it could well be a cool quarter of a million.mendonca said:How much difference in levels of compensation between him being sacked and resigning?
Something always looked wrong with Bows smiling and trying to be aligned to TS's level of positivity in press releases and photos. His rudeness and incoherent ways are too much for me. I can't imagine many players will jump at the sign of being 'improved' by LB this season knowing how he treats players.1 -
The absolute state of this 🥴🥴🥴mistrollingin62 said:He's waiting for a payoff, not got the decency to walk.Prick.4 -
His goals to time played ratio says otherwise.lonman said:
We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got.Charltonparklane said:
From league 2?lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.6
