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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Blackpool | Sat 27 Feb 2021
Comments
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Oh, so its Ged Roddy's fault now is it.CafcWest said:Haven't things got worse since the Technical Director Ged Roddy was appointed? He was announced in October - but by the time he got his "feet under the table" it sort of lines up with our decline. Maybe the stuff that Bowyer is alluding to about things going on in the background is some sort of disagreement...
Heard it all.23 -
lol! Yeah it is actually... its.a.GAME!! - Dont take it so bloody seriouslycafcsinger said:
Predictable comment, all a big joke to you?ForeverAddickted said:
I should know, I've got wound up on here this season, I've had arguments, been slagged off etc.
And for what? - Where does it get any of us when we have a meltdown?4 -
This.Cafc43v3r said:
I honestly do not believe that the, nearly 50 players, we have since the "restart" can all not care, or try or just be generally shit, if they even turned up can all be at fault.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
If the managers excuse is the "the players aren't trying hard enough". After a while you have to ask why. They can't all be "bad eggs" else they would have been finished years ago.
There is a common denominator & it's not the players.5 -
Seeing as some people think it's the players fault & they are all crap I'm assuming that we will be playing during the International break as none will be called up to play for their countries.3
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I don't see Ged on the touchline barking instructions or making subs...CafcWest said:Haven't things got worse since the Technical Director Ged Roddy was appointed? He was announced in October - but by the time he got his "feet under the table" it sort of lines up with our decline. Maybe the stuff that Bowyer is alluding to about things going on in the background is some sort of disagreement...1 -
Yes we will - Gunter and Washington are the only two that can be called upon nowgolfaddick said:Seeing as some people think it's the players fault & they are all crap I'm assuming that we will be playing during the International break as none will be called up to play for their countries.
We dont have enough to get a game called off
Edit: No I'm actually wrong there, Millar can get called up by Canada as well as they've got World Cup Qualifers themselves next month0 -
They are diminishing in numbers but some have a list of people to blame above Bowyer. The tea lady is most likely just above him. They probably admire his approach to blaming everybody bar himself.0
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I really wish i could not take it so seriously, i know theres not point getting worked up but i find it so frustrating watching this team at the moment, its awful.ForeverAddickted said:
lol! Yeah it is actually... its.a.GAME!! - Dont take it so bloody seriouslycafcsinger said:
Predictable comment, all a big joke to you?ForeverAddickted said:
I should know, I've got wound up on here this season, I've had arguments, been slagged off etc.
And for what? - Where does it get any of us when we have a meltdown?1 -
To be fair I've heard similar rumours about the guy - and that was a little while ago. Nothing concrete though.golfaddick said:
Oh, so its Ged Roddy's fault now is it.CafcWest said:Haven't things got worse since the Technical Director Ged Roddy was appointed? He was announced in October - but by the time he got his "feet under the table" it sort of lines up with our decline. Maybe the stuff that Bowyer is alluding to about things going on in the background is some sort of disagreement...
Heard it all.0 -
I honestly dont know whats changed in me, I've had your approach far too often myselfcafcsinger said:
I really wish i could not take it so seriously, i know theres not point getting worked up but i find it so frustrating watching this team at the moment, its awful.ForeverAddickted said:
lol! Yeah it is actually... its.a.GAME!! - Dont take it so bloody seriouslycafcsinger said:
Predictable comment, all a big joke to you?ForeverAddickted said:
I should know, I've got wound up on here this season, I've had arguments, been slagged off etc.
And for what? - Where does it get any of us when we have a meltdown?
Maybe its because I've felt for a while that we wont get anywhere this season and that I feel we'll be in L1 regardless next season
e.g. that second penalty today, normally I'd be going apeshit at my screen, today I just gave a rueful chuckle of incredulity6 -
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Before I go overboard
The players just don't give us a chance do they, giving a penalty away so early in a game by our serial fuck up merchant just renders all the preparation useless and once again we are chasing a game, leaving gaps. Blah blah fucken blah
Blackpool were a very decent side, Garbutt and Tate in particular completely on a different level and regardless of how much the players again failed to close down players, retain possession, compete for second balls Blackpool deserved that
The referee was appalling, I know he wasn't the one who didn't challenge their midfielder strolling to the edge of our 18 yard box but he was atrocious. I'm embarrassed about the second penalty and Anekes red was not a red, red cards like that drive me insane as we will see dozens of red cards every week if all referees punished that.
Blackpool worked out the referee would buy any theatrics and he did.
For me so many of those players have given up and are not doing what they have been told to do, Albie Morgan, Aaron Henry, Charlie Barker, Vennings need to be brought into the team. This season was never about going up, after the disaster of the ownership and just trying to get a squad of bodies I was just hoping we stayed up and solvent.
I know its fashionable to blame all this shit on the manager who stuck with us and gave us a team to relate with again. He has to be backed and trusted to build a squad on the summer with no constraints for a change.
The players on the park today were again shameful and can thank themselves lucky there are no fans. Absolutely shat out that performance
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Didnt Reading sack him?addick19 said:
To be fair I've heard similar rumours about the guy - and that was a little while ago. Nothing concrete though.golfaddick said:
Oh, so its Ged Roddy's fault now is it.CafcWest said:Haven't things got worse since the Technical Director Ged Roddy was appointed? He was announced in October - but by the time he got his "feet under the table" it sort of lines up with our decline. Maybe the stuff that Bowyer is alluding to about things going on in the background is some sort of disagreement...
Heard it all.0 -
Maatsen’s 70 yard pressing of their entire back four towards the end of the game brought a lump to my throat.0
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Lee needs to remember that respect is earned. But it’s also lost.I had the utmost respect for everything he did, stood by us when no one else did. But his behaviour, comments, everything he is doing currently has pretty much eroded that.People making excuses about the team and player. Make no mistake. The quality is 100% there. The management and attitude isn’t. And that lies at the feet of the manager.4
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Give Euell the job until the end of the season and let him play the U23s every game. Gives them some good experience, they’ll actually give a shit about the result, and they can’t do much worse than the XI we’ve got now.1
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With Bowyer quite obviously losing the dressing room, Tuesday could turn about to be a proper battering. Hull City 2016’esque dare I say.0
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I'd be surprised what with the state of the Wigan teamCAFCOlly said:With Bowyer quite obviously losing the dressing room, Tuesday could turn about to be a proper battering. Hull City 2016’esque dare I say.0 -
Err..@golfaddick thats not what I'm saying. What I'm trying to say is that maybe they disagree on certain things - players, approach, style, whatever....and it's causing issues behind the scenes. We don't know.golfaddick said:
Oh, so its Ged Roddy's fault now is it.CafcWest said:Haven't things got worse since the Technical Director Ged Roddy was appointed? He was announced in October - but by the time he got his "feet under the table" it sort of lines up with our decline. Maybe the stuff that Bowyer is alluding to about things going on in the background is some sort of disagreement...
Heard it all.1 -
Yeah we’re lucky that it’s Wigan. I just can’t see us putting in any sort of performance at the moment, irregardless of the opposition.ForeverAddickted said:
I'd be surprised what with the state of the Wigan teamCAFCOlly said:With Bowyer quite obviously losing the dressing room, Tuesday could turn about to be a proper battering. Hull City 2016’esque dare I say.
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Bowyer is training and picking the team. I would be disappointed if Roddy agrees that digging players out and blaming everybody but yourself and chopping and changing to ridiculous levels is good. But more likely the things themselves are the issue rather than Roddy.0
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He won't play them fckin players though Carts.Carter said:Before I go overboard
The players just don't give us a chance do they, giving a penalty away so early in a game by our serial fuck up merchant just renders all the preparation useless and once again we are chasing a game, leaving gaps. Blah blah fucken blah
Blackpool were a very decent side, Garbutt and Tate in particular completely on a different level and regardless of how much the players again failed to close down players, retain possession, compete for second balls Blackpool deserved that
The referee was appalling, I know he wasn't the one who didn't challenge their midfielder strolling to the edge of our 18 yard box but he was atrocious. I'm embarrassed about the second penalty and Anekes red was not a red, red cards like that drive me insane as we will see dozens of red cards every week if all referees punished that.
Blackpool worked out the referee would buy any theatrics and he did.
For me so many of those players have given up and are not doing what they have been told to do, Albie Morgan, Aaron Henry, Charlie Barker, Vennings need to be brought into the team. This season was never about going up, after the disaster of the ownership and just trying to get a squad of bodies I was just hoping we stayed up and solvent.
I know its fashionable to blame all this shit on the manager who stuck with us and gave us a team to relate with again. He has to be backed and trusted to build a squad on the summer with no constraints for a change.
The players on the park today were again shameful and can thank themselves lucky there are no fans. Absolutely shat out that performance
Its the old poker school shit he trusts in that fk him over weekly1 -
Is Deji the one costing goals? I've some bad news about Gunter for Bow if so.2
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Quite sad that I actually wouldnt be surprised. I go into every game now expecting us to lose and tuesday is no different.ForeverAddickted said:
I'd be surprised what with the state of the Wigan teamCAFCOlly said:With Bowyer quite obviously losing the dressing room, Tuesday could turn about to be a proper battering. Hull City 2016’esque dare I say.2 -
10 games ago we had players good enough to have us in the play offs.
Lee got his wishes to remove Maddison and Williams and replace them.
Why are the players to blame now when Lee got the credit before?
Countless team changes
4 subs at half time
Leaving Pratley on the pitch
How long do we go before it IS his fault ?
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Well it's different now. We have an owner who talks a good game and engages with fans etc. The real fundamentals IMO are that we haven't signed any significantly better players than we probably would of done under Roland. However, the expectation level (just check twitter and this forum) has ticked up to an unrealistic level so What you're seeing is Bowyer under a lot of pressure. Is Bowyer perfect ? NO, Has Bowyer made mistakes ? OF COURSE. However, hand on heart I believe he does care about CAFC and the biggest mistake he's made was not managing the expectation level amongst us fans and he's now paying the price for it. I really don't believe Bowyer is hanging around for a payoff as posted by someone earlier. I do believe he believes he can turn it around. However, I think some people on this forum need to be more realistic about how good this squad is and where they will take us.MuttleyCAFC said:
That is a fair point but one which fails to address the Jekyl and Hyde transformation in Bowyer since he signed that contract.lonman said:
The problem is football fans are so fickle. Rewind approx 1 year ago and people were shouting the house down for Southall to give Bowyer a contract. Unfortunately most people these days seek instant gratification and if things don't go as expected the answer is to get rid of this guy and bring someone else in. This is not unique to football. I like to think we are a fair club and I think Bowyer deserves the opportunity to get in some players without the restrictions placed on him in the last window. It's not about 'blind loyalty' it's about giving someone a chance to solve the issues that are in front of him. Has he earned the chance to be given some time to sort it out ? I for one think he has.bazjonster said:
Blind loyalty is an admirable trait, but can be so damaging!lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
He doesn't have the managerial competence or tactical acumen to turn it around. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's simply a demonstrable fact! Players are absolutely spent and clueless as to what they are expected to do.
He was a top class footballer who is simply not cut out to be a manager, like so many who have gone before him. He clearly doesn't possess the spectrum of managerial skills that equal (relative) success, that's all.6 -
I've got 1.1k comments unread on the 'Has Bowyer Lost It?" thread.
How many will there be tomorrow? I can't keep up.
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In the past i've done the same mate.ForeverAddickted said:
I honestly dont know whats changed in me, I've had your approach far too often myselfcafcsinger said:
I really wish i could not take it so seriously, i know theres not point getting worked up but i find it so frustrating watching this team at the moment, its awful.ForeverAddickted said:
lol! Yeah it is actually... its.a.GAME!! - Dont take it so bloody seriouslycafcsinger said:
Predictable comment, all a big joke to you?ForeverAddickted said:
I should know, I've got wound up on here this season, I've had arguments, been slagged off etc.
And for what? - Where does it get any of us when we have a meltdown?
Maybe its because I've felt for a while that we wont get anywhere this season and that I feel we'll be in L1 regardless next season
e.g. that second penalty today, normally I'd be going apeshit at my screen, today I just gave a rueful chuckle of incredulity1 -
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But the person saying they don't care is Bowyer. The same Bowyer who has openly said that he's telling them all exactly the right things but apparently every single player is either not understanding or not caring.Garrymanilow said:
You’ve still completely ignored my point about the players to criticise Bowyer again. Why do they get a free pass? I don’t think there’a a single person on this thread defending Bowyer tonight. The willingness to just ignore the information that some of our players don’t give a shit is incredible though, and in that case we’ll get what we deserve. I just hope that even if he gets rid of Bowyer Sandgaard also makes sure he turfs out the players who can decide at any point that they just won’t try as well. This won’t end just with the manager moving onhoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Lee can't manage these players and can't get the best out of them. It's too much of a coincidence how many players are underperforming under his management.Garrymanilow said:
Why can't people understand that there's nuance to these situations and that more than one thing can be true at once? Is the team underperforming? Yes. Should Bowyer get criticism and the sack for that if he can't fix it? Yes. Do we think Bowyer is a liar who has made up a story about the players not caring? Up to you, but it would be a hell of an accusation to make. Should the players also be criticised for deciding to stop giving a shit about playing for the club if they don't like the manager or don't feel like trying? Yes. All these things can be true. Just giving the players a pass because you don't like the manager is ridiculous. I honestly can't fathom the idea that people can shrug their shoulders at what we're hearing and say 'but the manager, I don't like the manager'. If Bowyer goes we'll still have a team of players who can decide at any point that they don't feel like turning up, and that needs addressing.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If you have a lot of players in a squad who don't appear to care then the first thing you'd look at would be the manager - it's hardly rocket science. Too much of a coincidence that so many players are underperforming under him.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
He deserves the sack based on results - that's his job.
It's always the sign of a poor manager who starts calling out the players. Bowyer must have had some influence in signing these players.
Lee's devotees will invariably blame the players rather than face up to his shortcomings.
Either we've got a genius manager and an entire squad of feckless morons... Or Lee Bowyer's not quite the motivator and strategist that he thinks. Occam's razor says that option B is far more likely.9 -
He is saying his players don't care. That is when you pack it it. Unless something is keeping you from doing so. My money is on the pay off he is due.lonman said:
Well it's different now. We have an owner who talks a good game and engages with fans etc. The real fundamentals IMO are that we haven't signed any significantly better players than we probably would of done under Roland. However, the expectation level (just check twitter and this forum) has ticked up to an unrealistic level so What you're seeing is Bowyer under a lot of pressure. Is Bowyer perfect ? NO, Has Bowyer made mistakes ? OF COURSE. However, hand on heart I believe he does care about CAFC and the biggest mistake he's made was not managing the expectation level amongst us fans and he's now paying the price for it. I really don't believe Bowyer is hanging around for a payoff as posted by someone earlier. I do believe he believes he can turn it around. However, I think some people on this forum need to be more realistic about how good this squad is and where they will take us.MuttleyCAFC said:
That is a fair point but one which fails to address the Jekyl and Hyde transformation in Bowyer since he signed that contract.lonman said:
The problem is football fans are so fickle. Rewind approx 1 year ago and people were shouting the house down for Southall to give Bowyer a contract. Unfortunately most people these days seek instant gratification and if things don't go as expected the answer is to get rid of this guy and bring someone else in. This is not unique to football. I like to think we are a fair club and I think Bowyer deserves the opportunity to get in some players without the restrictions placed on him in the last window. It's not about 'blind loyalty' it's about giving someone a chance to solve the issues that are in front of him. Has he earned the chance to be given some time to sort it out ? I for one think he has.bazjonster said:
Blind loyalty is an admirable trait, but can be so damaging!lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
He doesn't have the managerial competence or tactical acumen to turn it around. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's simply a demonstrable fact! Players are absolutely spent and clueless as to what they are expected to do.
He was a top class footballer who is simply not cut out to be a manager, like so many who have gone before him. He clearly doesn't possess the spectrum of managerial skills that equal (relative) success, that's all.1
