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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Blackpool | Sat 27 Feb 2021
Comments
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lonman said:
We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got.Charltonparklane said:
From league 2?lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
I've been in a bad mood and didn't think I'd be able to laugh this evening. But thank you, you managed it.2 -
If 22 points from 21 games with this squad in L1 playing some awful clueless football doesn't deserve the sack then I'm not sure what does? I've seen enough.palarsehater said:I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.10 -
I think the overachieving was that this bunch of players were in top 6.charltonbob said:
"The players I have in that dressing room are underachieving, 100 percent"LouisMend said:
Last week he said we were overachieving ?0 -
MuttleyCAFC said:
His goals to time played ratio says otherwise.lonman said:
We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got.Charltonparklane said:
From league 2?lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
Well he got 1 goal last year at Championship level. This guy is not Karlan Grant or Lyle Taylor. Just watch him when he receives the ball. I mean he got a goal was it last Saturday and the ball came to his feet and it took him a few seconds to register that he had the damn thing. I'm just saying that a lot of players are bang average, not scapegoating Aneke just using him as an example. I think we need to clear the decks of all this average dross and get in some quality. Lets see what Thomas is all about in the summer. TBH if he decides he doesn't want to spend to build a decent squad rather than this shower we currently have on our books then we need to adjust expectation levels. Personally I'm happy we still have a club and yes it's rough at the moment but given time and the right quality of player I think Bowyer will come through.3 -
The reality is that as a supporter you want only to want to see your team play well and win. Most of us would accept that losing is part and parcel of any team that you support however what is not acceptable is watching a team bereft of ideas. Its no coincedence that we started well in the championship and run out of ideas and similar to this season.
The players of course have a lot to answer for but Bowyers inconsistent approach with several players must cause some unrest. Certain players make mistakes (Morgan, Williams, Pearce) and get dug out and removed from the team whilst others don't (Watson, Pratley, Gunter).
An ever changing team doesn't help with performances and whilst suspensions and injuries don't help the vast majority have been uneccessarily made. I would say unnecessary because results prove it hasn't worked as a tactic by the manager.
Whilst again we have been undone by some poor refereeing and wonder goals even when winning the performance didn't always match.
Basics havnt been worked on or eradicated and examples being
A right back who's throw on's 90% of the time end up with the opposition.
The back up right back who can't cross a ball.
Centre halfs who are consistently bullied but not protected.
Midfielders who can't tackle (Shinnie and Gilbey) or pick up the opposition.
Midfielders prone to gaffs that cost us (Watson, Pratley, Shinnie)
Players who should never have been brought (Madison, Bogle)
A manager who has left our best passer consistantly out of the team (Morgan) and plays a loan player who needs resting (Maartson). The treatment of Morgan and more lately Purrington by Bowyer is strange.
A goalkeeper who now is consistantly beaten from 25 yards and not rested.
A fundamental change in management and coaching needs to take place and some players need to be released
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This IN SPADESpalarsehater said:I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.5 -
You're welcome Bro : )DRAddick said:lonman said:
We won't get relegated. Honestly, look at someone like Chuks Aneke that everyone on here praises. If you think he's a 20 goal a season man at any level above non league football I don't know what to tell you. First Touch is abysmal, often has no spatial awareness either, receives the ball and 80% of the time never looks up or around him to see what opportunities are available. Ultimately Bowyer can only work with what he's got.Charltonparklane said:
From league 2?lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
I've been in a bad mood and didn't think I'd be able to laugh this evening. But thank you, you managed it.0 -
Blind loyalty is an admirable trait, but can be so damaging!lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
He doesn't have the managerial competence or tactical acumen to turn it around. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's simply a demonstrable fact! Players are absolutely spent and clueless as to what they are expected to do.
He was a top class footballer who is simply not cut out to be a manager, like so many who have gone before him. He clearly doesn't possess the spectrum of managerial skills that equal (relative) success, that's all.8 -
Agree with most of your posts on here PH, but that last sentence is one of the weirdest standpoints the Bowyer in crowd have taken on. Accepting failure just because it could have been worse? Makes no sense.palarsehater said:I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.18 -
He has to work with the squad he's got and get the best out of them. He has to take into account their limitations..bazjonster said:
Blind loyalty is an admirable trait, but can be so damaging!lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
He doesn't have the managerial competence or tactical acumen to turn it around. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's simply a demonstrable fact! Players are absolutely spent and clueless as to what they are expected to do.
He was a top class footballer who is simply not cut out to be a manager, like so many who have gone before him. He clearly doesn't possess the spectrum of managerial skills that equal (relative) success, that's all.
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You’ve still completely ignored my point about the players to criticise Bowyer again. Why do they get a free pass? I don’t think there’a a single person on this thread defending Bowyer tonight. The willingness to just ignore the information that some of our players don’t give a shit is incredible though, and in that case we’ll get what we deserve. I just hope that even if he gets rid of Bowyer Sandgaard also makes sure he turfs out the players who can decide at any point that they just won’t try as well. This won’t end just with the manager moving onhoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Lee can't manage these players and can't get the best out of them. It's too much of a coincidence how many players are underperforming under his management.Garrymanilow said:
Why can't people understand that there's nuance to these situations and that more than one thing can be true at once? Is the team underperforming? Yes. Should Bowyer get criticism and the sack for that if he can't fix it? Yes. Do we think Bowyer is a liar who has made up a story about the players not caring? Up to you, but it would be a hell of an accusation to make. Should the players also be criticised for deciding to stop giving a shit about playing for the club if they don't like the manager or don't feel like trying? Yes. All these things can be true. Just giving the players a pass because you don't like the manager is ridiculous. I honestly can't fathom the idea that people can shrug their shoulders at what we're hearing and say 'but the manager, I don't like the manager'. If Bowyer goes we'll still have a team of players who can decide at any point that they don't feel like turning up, and that needs addressing.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If you have a lot of players in a squad who don't appear to care then the first thing you'd look at would be the manager - it's hardly rocket science. Too much of a coincidence that so many players are underperforming under him.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
He deserves the sack based on results - that's his job.
It's always the sign of a poor manager who starts calling out the players. Bowyer must have had some influence in signing these players.
Lee's devotees will invariably blame the players rather than face up to his shortcomings.1 -
The only evidence I have is results. I have no idea if the players care or not so can't comment - it's just hearsay.Garrymanilow said:
You’ve still completely ignored my point about the players to criticise Bowyer again. Why do they get a free pass? I don’t think there’a a single person on this thread defending Bowyer tonight. The willingness to just ignore the information that some of our players don’t give a shit is incredible though, and in that case we’ll get what we deserve. I just hope that even if he gets rid of Bowyer Sandgaard also makes sure he turfs out the players who can decide at any point that they just won’t try as well. This won’t end just with the manager moving onhoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Lee can't manage these players and can't get the best out of them. It's too much of a coincidence how many players are underperforming under his management.Garrymanilow said:
Why can't people understand that there's nuance to these situations and that more than one thing can be true at once? Is the team underperforming? Yes. Should Bowyer get criticism and the sack for that if he can't fix it? Yes. Do we think Bowyer is a liar who has made up a story about the players not caring? Up to you, but it would be a hell of an accusation to make. Should the players also be criticised for deciding to stop giving a shit about playing for the club if they don't like the manager or don't feel like trying? Yes. All these things can be true. Just giving the players a pass because you don't like the manager is ridiculous. I honestly can't fathom the idea that people can shrug their shoulders at what we're hearing and say 'but the manager, I don't like the manager'. If Bowyer goes we'll still have a team of players who can decide at any point that they don't feel like turning up, and that needs addressing.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If you have a lot of players in a squad who don't appear to care then the first thing you'd look at would be the manager - it's hardly rocket science. Too much of a coincidence that so many players are underperforming under him.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
He deserves the sack based on results - that's his job.
It's always the sign of a poor manager who starts calling out the players. Bowyer must have had some influence in signing these players.
Lee's devotees will invariably blame the players rather than face up to his shortcomings.
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I've never really been a supporter of fans and the press trotting out the "lost the dressing room" line. Usually there's much more to it than that going on.
But this is a textbook case.
It's just a desperately sad situation and dragging out the inevitable is ultimately not good for anyone. Including Bowyer himself.3 -
You said: "So it's all about the £££££ then. Oh sorry.......€€€€€ as he wants to to back to France."golfaddick said:
Well, if you read my first 3 words......Oggy Red said:
That's crap, Golfie.golfaddick said:
Sounds to me like he wants to be sacked.......Doesn't want to resign though.LouisMend said:
So it's all about the £££££ then. Oh sorry.......€€€€€ as he wants to to back to France.
That's just your assumption. Guesswork. And you're trying to pass it off as fact.
Sounds to ME.
Not trying to pass anything off as fact. Just me reading it as I did.
Well, it was your last 2 sentences that I took issue with, Golfie.
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Haven't things got worse since the Technical Director Ged Roddy was appointed? He was announced in October - but by the time he got his "feet under the table" it sort of lines up with our decline. Maybe the stuff that Bowyer is alluding to about things going on in the background is some sort of disagreement...5
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But the information that some players don't give a shit is coming from Bowyer, in a post match press conference where he once again refused to take any responsibility himself for what is going on.Garrymanilow said:
You’ve still completely ignored my point about the players to criticise Bowyer again. Why do they get a free pass? I don’t think there’a a single person on this thread defending Bowyer tonight. The willingness to just ignore the information that some of our players don’t give a shit is incredible though, and in that case we’ll get what we deserve. I just hope that even if he gets rid of Bowyer Sandgaard also makes sure he turfs out the players who can decide at any point that they just won’t try as well. This won’t end just with the manager moving onhoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Lee can't manage these players and can't get the best out of them. It's too much of a coincidence how many players are underperforming under his management.Garrymanilow said:
Why can't people understand that there's nuance to these situations and that more than one thing can be true at once? Is the team underperforming? Yes. Should Bowyer get criticism and the sack for that if he can't fix it? Yes. Do we think Bowyer is a liar who has made up a story about the players not caring? Up to you, but it would be a hell of an accusation to make. Should the players also be criticised for deciding to stop giving a shit about playing for the club if they don't like the manager or don't feel like trying? Yes. All these things can be true. Just giving the players a pass because you don't like the manager is ridiculous. I honestly can't fathom the idea that people can shrug their shoulders at what we're hearing and say 'but the manager, I don't like the manager'. If Bowyer goes we'll still have a team of players who can decide at any point that they don't feel like turning up, and that needs addressing.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If you have a lot of players in a squad who don't appear to care then the first thing you'd look at would be the manager - it's hardly rocket science. Too much of a coincidence that so many players are underperforming under him.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
He deserves the sack based on results - that's his job.
It's always the sign of a poor manager who starts calling out the players. Bowyer must have had some influence in signing these players.
Lee's devotees will invariably blame the players rather than face up to his shortcomings.
We have also heard through a couple of posters on here, that Bowyer has effectively lost the plot behind the scenes and does not discuss tactics.
I know who I'm inclined to believe at the moment.
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Bowhere is way over that, believe to be between £300,000 and £500,000. Highest paid in league 1.Stig said:
28 months at whatever is salary is. A quick internet search suggests an average for his level is about £10k per month (I've no idea how accurate this would be), but it could well be a cool quarter of a million.mendonca said:How much difference in levels of compensation between him being sacked and resigning?0 -
So Bowyer’s a liarFishCostaFortune said:
But the information that some players don't give a shit is coming from Bowyer, in a post match press conference where he once again refused to take any responsibility himself for what is going on.Garrymanilow said:
You’ve still completely ignored my point about the players to criticise Bowyer again. Why do they get a free pass? I don’t think there’a a single person on this thread defending Bowyer tonight. The willingness to just ignore the information that some of our players don’t give a shit is incredible though, and in that case we’ll get what we deserve. I just hope that even if he gets rid of Bowyer Sandgaard also makes sure he turfs out the players who can decide at any point that they just won’t try as well. This won’t end just with the manager moving onhoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Lee can't manage these players and can't get the best out of them. It's too much of a coincidence how many players are underperforming under his management.Garrymanilow said:
Why can't people understand that there's nuance to these situations and that more than one thing can be true at once? Is the team underperforming? Yes. Should Bowyer get criticism and the sack for that if he can't fix it? Yes. Do we think Bowyer is a liar who has made up a story about the players not caring? Up to you, but it would be a hell of an accusation to make. Should the players also be criticised for deciding to stop giving a shit about playing for the club if they don't like the manager or don't feel like trying? Yes. All these things can be true. Just giving the players a pass because you don't like the manager is ridiculous. I honestly can't fathom the idea that people can shrug their shoulders at what we're hearing and say 'but the manager, I don't like the manager'. If Bowyer goes we'll still have a team of players who can decide at any point that they don't feel like turning up, and that needs addressing.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If you have a lot of players in a squad who don't appear to care then the first thing you'd look at would be the manager - it's hardly rocket science. Too much of a coincidence that so many players are underperforming under him.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
He deserves the sack based on results - that's his job.
It's always the sign of a poor manager who starts calling out the players. Bowyer must have had some influence in signing these players.
Lee's devotees will invariably blame the players rather than face up to his shortcomings.
We have also heard through a couple of posters on here, that Bowyer has effectively lost the plot behind the scenes and does not discuss tactics.
I know who I'm inclined to believe at the moment.0 -
I honestly do not believe that the, nearly 50 players, we have since the "restart" can all not care, or try or just be generally shit, if they even turned up can all be at fault.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
If the managers excuse is the "the players aren't trying hard enough". After a while you have to ask why. They can't all be "bad eggs" else they would have been finished years ago.5 - Sponsored links:
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The problem is football fans are so fickle. Rewind approx 1 year ago and people were shouting the house down for Southall to give Bowyer a contract. Unfortunately most people these days seek instant gratification and if things don't go as expected the answer is to get rid of this guy and bring someone else in. This is not unique to football. I like to think we are a fair club and I think Bowyer deserves the opportunity to get in some players without the restrictions placed on him in the last window. It's not about 'blind loyalty' it's about giving someone a chance to solve the issues that are in front of him. Has he earned the chance to be given some time to sort it out ? I for one think he has.bazjonster said:
Blind loyalty is an admirable trait, but can be so damaging!lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
He doesn't have the managerial competence or tactical acumen to turn it around. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's simply a demonstrable fact! Players are absolutely spent and clueless as to what they are expected to do.
He was a top class footballer who is simply not cut out to be a manager, like so many who have gone before him. He clearly doesn't possess the spectrum of managerial skills that equal (relative) success, that's all.3 -
Predictable comment, all a big joke to you?ForeverAddickted said:
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It’s been in the press many times that Lambert earns £550k at Ipswich.RaplhMilne said:
Bowhere is way over that, believe to be between £300,000 and £500,000. Highest paid in league 1.Stig said:
28 months at whatever is salary is. A quick internet search suggests an average for his level is about £10k per month (I've no idea how accurate this would be), but it could well be a cool quarter of a million.mendonca said:How much difference in levels of compensation between him being sacked and resigning?0 -
I mean if you want to group someone who is underperforming and looking at ways to deflect this, into the same group as a liar - then sure.Garrymanilow said:
So Bowyer’s a liarFishCostaFortune said:
But the information that some players don't give a shit is coming from Bowyer, in a post match press conference where he once again refused to take any responsibility himself for what is going on.Garrymanilow said:
You’ve still completely ignored my point about the players to criticise Bowyer again. Why do they get a free pass? I don’t think there’a a single person on this thread defending Bowyer tonight. The willingness to just ignore the information that some of our players don’t give a shit is incredible though, and in that case we’ll get what we deserve. I just hope that even if he gets rid of Bowyer Sandgaard also makes sure he turfs out the players who can decide at any point that they just won’t try as well. This won’t end just with the manager moving onhoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Lee can't manage these players and can't get the best out of them. It's too much of a coincidence how many players are underperforming under his management.Garrymanilow said:
Why can't people understand that there's nuance to these situations and that more than one thing can be true at once? Is the team underperforming? Yes. Should Bowyer get criticism and the sack for that if he can't fix it? Yes. Do we think Bowyer is a liar who has made up a story about the players not caring? Up to you, but it would be a hell of an accusation to make. Should the players also be criticised for deciding to stop giving a shit about playing for the club if they don't like the manager or don't feel like trying? Yes. All these things can be true. Just giving the players a pass because you don't like the manager is ridiculous. I honestly can't fathom the idea that people can shrug their shoulders at what we're hearing and say 'but the manager, I don't like the manager'. If Bowyer goes we'll still have a team of players who can decide at any point that they don't feel like turning up, and that needs addressing.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
If you have a lot of players in a squad who don't appear to care then the first thing you'd look at would be the manager - it's hardly rocket science. Too much of a coincidence that so many players are underperforming under him.Garrymanilow said:
But there's a stark difference between asking players to run through walls and expecting the basics from professionals. At the start of last season we were getting the running though walls effect and the players were performing beyond themselves. Injuries and mad ownerships dented confidence and we went back down to our level. This isn't that though, this is players who don't seem to care at all, who aren't trying and aren't doing the basics resulting in them getting turned over at home against Blackpool. We're being told that our players don't care, and reading this thread it's remarkable the amount people will forgive the players anything if they don't like the manager. Your anger and frustrations can be directed to more than one place, and if hearing what we've heard that the only place we're willing to look is the manager then we're evidently perfectly happy to have players here who just don't really care about playing for us because the manager subbed them early once or was harsh in a press conference. That's no good.Cafc43v3r said:
He nailed himself to that cross in November. If you publicly slag off you players, sub them off before half time or sub a sub you have to be 100% right.Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
You have to start winnings games and prove it to the dressing room.
You can say what you like about Maddison's attitude (we should never have signed him in the first place) or Bogle's ability. You don't treat players like that and then expect their pals to run through walls for you.
I am quite supprised that anyone thinks he should get sacked but couldn't see it 3 months ago because nothing has really changed.
He deserves the sack based on results - that's his job.
It's always the sign of a poor manager who starts calling out the players. Bowyer must have had some influence in signing these players.
Lee's devotees will invariably blame the players rather than face up to his shortcomings.
We have also heard through a couple of posters on here, that Bowyer has effectively lost the plot behind the scenes and does not discuss tactics.
I know who I'm inclined to believe at the moment.
He wouldn't be the first person, and he sure as hell won't be the last.0 -
I wish you 2 well. You can walk off merrily holding hands into the sunset together.lonman said:
This IN SPADESpalarsehater said:I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.3 -
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Wright, Curtis, Kinsey, Campbell, Went, Reeves, Gregory, Tracy, Tees, Moore, Peacock.... Sub Kiers. I remember they played game in, game out, over forty two plus games that season, managed by a former Charlton "Legend". They seemed to do OK, finishing 3rd behind Derby and Crystal Palace in the Championships Daddy, the "real" Second Division. None well paid, but enjoyed turning out for the game, keen to win, and proud to wear the shirt. A season later, Ray Crawford (Ipswich and England) signing to play for us in the evening of his career, running across during "limbering up" half an hour before kick off of his first game for Charlton, to say "hello" and make three school-kids feel like royalty! I think that football players in those times "cared". Possibly because they were not elevated above the crowd that cheered them on, or parade their ego on Facebook..... If any of you bump into Keith (ex Erith Grammar with my sister) Peacock, speak to him about playing for Charlton in the Real Age of Football. Modern football stinks, see today for details.Addick Addict said:"Pick the best 11. But they can’t physically go Saturday Tuesday Saturday”
I've got news for you Lee. Since Mick McCarthy took charge at Cardiff, they have:
played 9 games in 31 days
won 6 Drawn 3
had 11 players appear in at least 8 of those 9 matches
And McCarthy did not sign any of the players to appear either
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Let's see where we are when Iniss is back.golfaddick said:I'm so done with it all I actually want Bowyer to stay. I was saying months ago thay he should go but lots on here said give it time , wait for Famewo & Innis to come back, wait for the transfer window to open. We will soon go on a run. Blah blah blah
So it's all down to you lot. I resigned myself weeks ago we weren't going up & now not even getting into the play-offs. Now it's your turn to suffer. You wanted it this way so no point complaining now.4 -
That is a fair point but one which fails to address the Jekyl and Hyde transformation in Bowyer since he signed that contract.lonman said:
The problem is football fans are so fickle. Rewind approx 1 year ago and people were shouting the house down for Southall to give Bowyer a contract. Unfortunately most people these days seek instant gratification and if things don't go as expected the answer is to get rid of this guy and bring someone else in. This is not unique to football. I like to think we are a fair club and I think Bowyer deserves the opportunity to get in some players without the restrictions placed on him in the last window. It's not about 'blind loyalty' it's about giving someone a chance to solve the issues that are in front of him. Has he earned the chance to be given some time to sort it out ? I for one think he has.bazjonster said:
Blind loyalty is an admirable trait, but can be so damaging!lonman said:I still have faith in Bowyer. I think given time he will turn this around. A large portion of the blame lays at the door of the players. There is no way this squad is a top 6 squad IMO. There are a few exceptions Shinnie, Millar, Stockley and Famewo but beyond that we are garbage. Pearce was dog sh#t last year I don't think he's gonna improve any. We lost 12 players in the summer and they were replaced with average signings even by L1 standards. I think Bowyer deserves the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer and have a good crack at getting us promoted next year.
He doesn't have the managerial competence or tactical acumen to turn it around. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's simply a demonstrable fact! Players are absolutely spent and clueless as to what they are expected to do.
He was a top class footballer who is simply not cut out to be a manager, like so many who have gone before him. He clearly doesn't possess the spectrum of managerial skills that equal (relative) success, that's all.
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