I feel for Southgate at times, as some people have such strong negative feelings against him as a manager that they are never going to applaud him for anything, and they’ll always be something to moan at him for. Even if he manages back-to-back semi finals in major tournaments, the same people will still say we only played shit teams, so it doesn’t count.
Yes, we have an incredible abundance of skilful players at this time, but they still have had to be managed as a group, rather than the star individuals we’ve always had before, who struggled at almost every tournament. Southgate isn’t the most charismatic personality, but personally think he’s doing a decent job with the players in front of him.
I must be one of the only people that find him quite charismatic. He seems approachable, genuine, friendly, intelligent. I’d rather listen to him talk about the game than someone like Allardyce. I don’t always agree with what he says or even his tactics, but he’s got a lot more experience and coaching badges that I could ever dream of, so you just gotta trust what he’s trying to achieve.
GS is a man with a plan and although some of it seems unnatural to most of us, if it wins us the tournament then he's to be applauded for having the balls to see it through and stick with it - as he said in his interview after - 'lose and you're buried' so he knows the tightrope he is walking but believes in what he is doing and isn't taking the easy option - i like that and its single minded manager's that end up being great ones - he's a way off that yet but lets see
I must be one of the only people that find him quite charismatic. He seems approachable, genuine, friendly, intelligent. I’d rather listen to him talk about the game than someone like Allardyce. I don’t always agree with what he says or even his tactics, but he’s got a lot more experience and coaching badges that I could ever dream of, so you just gotta trust what he’s trying to achieve.
He's not charismatic in a chest-thumping, rabble rousing way but he has a manner the players seem to respond to - he does genuinely seem to believe in them which gets them to believe in themselves.
Too many people focus on "passion" or when we are talking national teams "patriotism" when sometimes it's a more understated and measured response you need. I think part of it is that these are fairly young players for the most part but considerably more intelligent and complex than the stereotypical "football player" (e.g Rashford's anti-poverty campaigning and Sterling's work against racism) and he recognises that.
Personally thought the team selection was far too negative, we're at home to a side who whilst they have tremendous pedigree, really aren't all that, but we changed our formation and set up to match them rather than impose our own game and left out any number of decent attacking options.
However..........i'll never criticise Southgate again, as it's clearly working. I still can't decide if he's a good manager or a lucky manager. The draw in 2018 was great, the draw this time is absolutely incredible, the miss from Muller was unbelievable.
But credit to us, despite a couple of close shaves we still haven't conceded and we scored 2 superbly well worked goals. I'll be honest in saying that pre tournament i'd have preferred Chilwell to play, but absolute full credit to Luke Shaw, he's been great and was absolutely superb last night.
On we go to Saturday now, where surely we'll change things up and play more attacking. Grealish has to start in my opinion, game changer.
Napoleon liked his marshals to be lucky so Gareth being lucky is good enough for me.
I genuinely think you have to be old enough to remember Italia 90 to truly appreciate last night. You youngsters enjoy the victory but us veterans lived the pain.
I won't disagree. I'll add 1970 as well because I'm really old!
Lots of ghosts exorcised yesterday.
1970 was my first 'how the feck did we lose that?' moment in football.
Another ode to those who went through the pain of Italia 90.
And as we head off to Italy again needing to stand tall - let’s give some airtime to my personal number one soundtrack to an England tournament summer:
Another ode to those who went through the pain of Italia 90.
And as we head off to Italy again needing to stand tall - let’s give some airtime to my personal number one soundtrack to an England tournament summer:
Another ode to those who went through the pain of Italia 90.
And as we head off to Italy again needing to stand tall - let’s give some airtime to my personal number one soundtrack to an England tournament summer:
Thought first half Shaw looked slightly clueless as to where he should be playing. Was almost playing next to Maguire and when we got the ball he couldn’t push forward apart from one free kick he won, but that could have been down to the intelligence of Muller. Second half he played much further forward and looked a totally different player.
Also, anyone with Instagram watch Rob Becketts stories 😂
When ever the 3 at the back becomes a 5 you know the opposition are on the offensive and Shaw was indeed pegged back with limited options in the First half and that was credit to Muller and their game plan. Muller has had a fantastic career for Germany and Bayern Munich since he was a 19 year old who highlighted how slow Gareth Barry was in that 4-1 defeat and personally found it Cathartic that our Nemesis missed a chance that 9 times out of 10 he would have taken with aplomb. Being a 50/50 match it was going to come down to who took their few chances and we took two of ours where for once against England, Germany's chances were saved or missed.
Maybe Charlton will beat Millwall one day or do miracles take longer !
Well, it's a good job we were playing with a football and not a plomb.
I must be one of the only people that find him quite charismatic. He seems approachable, genuine, friendly, intelligent. I’d rather listen to him talk about the game than someone like Allardyce. I don’t always agree with what he says or even his tactics, but he’s got a lot more experience and coaching badges that I could ever dream of, so you just gotta trust what he’s trying to achieve.
This story was told to me by Andy Woodman, Charlton's ex Keeper coach and now Bromley's manager. Friends with Pardew as well, as West ham, Charlton and Newcastle shows the connection with the dad dancer.
Gareth is Freddie's Godfather, so best mate is not an exaggeration.
Gareth was never going to continue in football Manager after Middlesbrough as he had been financially astute and didn't need the stress of football management !!! Southgate didn't have his A licence or Pro Licence when he was at Middlesbrough. (Both JJ and John Terry passed and got their pro coaching licence last week).
But after getting involved with the England set up he felt that previous England managers had not created the right ambience or atmosphere with senior pros not welcoming new kids who may take their place. Similar to what Nigel Adkins is trying to achieve at Sparrows lane, Gareth was determined that players should relish being involved and yes, obvious, but create a club like band of brothers who if not in the starting 11 would still be 100% behind the team. Seeing the subs join the celebration he looked like he has succeeded in that at least.
Only knew Andy Woodman through Freddie Woodman going to my son's school and Andy kindly showed us the Cafc dressing room on a match day, 2 hours before KO when Parky was manager. Very low key and the players all looked sleepy before the game as they arrived !
This is the Gospel truth, my brother went up to Kyle Reid and told him to take him the full back on the outside as he was so slow as he had seen him play the week before atDagenham. Andy and Parky looked bemused, it was time to leave the dressing room and it was a surreal experience seeing Gary Docherty flat out on his back on the couch, nodding off.
12 minutes into the match Kyle Reid went pass the full back and pulled his hamstring. My stomach hurt as I couldn't stop laughing at my Brother.
A work colleague of MsAA is the husband/partner of the British ambassador in Rome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Morris). Apparently, she's dreading the problems our lot might cause over there so probably happy(ish) with the COVID travel restrictions.
Grealish turned the game because he came on against a tiring Germany. I do not believe he'd have added any more than Saka did had he started in his place.
Southgate is getting it right so far. As boring as the football may seem.
Different perspective (for the purposes 'balance') -
You could argue that Southgate is getting it right and that he's a tactical genius; or, you could also argue that he's fumbling in the dark and riding his luck(?). His decisions are underpinned by his risk-averse nature.
For instance, if Havertz's half volley had gone 6 inches either side of Pickford, it's a goal. If Müller hadn't have missed a sitter, it's extra time and penalties, etc.
Germany were a pedestrian, mediocre side. Yes, history makes us view the result in a slightly blinkered way, but they are not a great side at all. Just like the road to the 2018 semi-final, we haven't faced anyone to really test us. In this instance, that will now not happen until the final, and that's when Southgate should be judged, arguably.
I personally don't understand the propensity to insist that we play with 2 defensive midfielders, just like I don't understand how Grealish doesn't start, but then again that's why I am not a football manager. At the end of the day, it's a game of opinions 'Saint' and we are in a quarter-final! Nonetheless, I am enjoying the ride.
Basically you're saying Southgate is lucky and clueless unless we win the competition.
1) George hasn't a clue what's happened. Why did William and Kate take him? They could have picked up any kid who knows about football on the way to the ground and stuck him in that privileged seat.
Surely you didn't leave your kid at home and abduct a kid on the way to The Valley? You get arrested for that sort of thing these days :-)
OK, lets get our feet back on the ground now, enough of how great we are. We won our last game, but The Germans are not the all conquering force they once were, although still a force to be reckoned with. We have rode our luck well, (all 4 games), they didn't. We had two goals, that in the cold light of day, were as good as any passing movement goal from any team in the euros. But we did have few errors that on another day would have cost us. At 0-0 even a bad team can sneak a goal and then park the bus, that could of but happily didn't happen. That wasn't a final and I have seen this euphoria all before only to be severely disappointed. As much as it seems we have a favorable draw the other teams will have a game plan to combat ours, especially at this stage. I don't believe there are bad sides in the Euros, some are better than others, some have a large slice good luck and some have the opposite. If I sound a little negative that come from supporting Charlton and England for bloody decades. I know other teams don't and won't relish playing us, certainly not in the QF & hopefully the SF, (and dare I say it final) at Wembley but like most England supporters we have seen so many false dawns.
I would look at some of England's failures in the past and say they involved a fair bit of bad luck. I believe we are due some good luck and there is nothing wrong with that. Each new game has the potential to be lucky or unlucky. With teams like Ukraine, there is probably much more scope to take luck out of the equation.
Grealish turned the game because he came on against a tiring Germany. I do not believe he'd have added any more than Saka did had he started in his place.
Southgate is getting it right so far. As boring as the football may seem.
Different perspective (for the purposes 'balance') -
You could argue that Southgate is getting it right and that he's a tactical genius; or, you could also argue that he's fumbling in the dark and riding his luck(?). His decisions are underpinned by his risk-averse nature.
For instance, if Havertz's half volley had gone 6 inches either side of Pickford, it's a goal. If Müller hadn't have missed a sitter, it's extra time and penalties, etc.
Germany were a pedestrian, mediocre side. Yes, history makes us view the result in a slightly blinkered way, but they are not a great side at all. Just like the road to the 2018 semi-final, we haven't faced anyone to really test us. In this instance, that will now not happen until the final, and that's when Southgate should be judged, arguably.
I personally don't understand the propensity to insist that we play with 2 defensive midfielders, just like I don't understand how Grealish doesn't start, but then again that's why I am not a football manager. At the end of the day, it's a game of opinions 'Saint' and we are in a quarter-final! Nonetheless, I am enjoying the ride.
Almost every football match, even those that end up with big margins of defeat, swing on a few key moments. At this level, even an apparent mismatch between a major nation and a minnow, will usually be settled by fine margins.
If Sterling’s shot goes in in the first half, or Kane doesn’t have a heavy touch England could have been leading by at halftime.
England got pelters for the Scotland match, but if Stones’ header or Mount’s chance goes in it’s a different game. In the Wales vs Denmark game, Wales started the best and Bale had a chance almost identical to Denmark’s first goal but Bale missed and Denmark scored. If Bale scores, the momentum and dynamic of the game changes and, even what was eventually a comprehensive win for Denmark, could’ve turned into a very different match.
Germany are not the best side in the world but they still have a team full of players playing for the likes of Man City, Real, Chelsea, Bayern etc. - i.e. some of the very top club sides in the world, and many players who are recent Champions League winners. They had chances vs France in the group (although no one was trying to retrospectively belittle France’s win because of it), and they beat Portugal the reigning European champions. Of course they were going to have chances. How often do you watch a game and see one of the sides have zero chances unless they are in really poor form? It’s ludicrous to say Germany weren’t a true test. It was a huge test, of skill, tactics, and, particularly, psychology (because of the history with Germany and playing under the pressure of Wembley). England passed the test and passed well.
Belgium, officially the best team in the world, only had one shot in their win over Portugal. Reigning world champions France couldn’t beat Switzerland. Spain were pushed hard by Croatia (who England beat in the group). Italy were taken to extra time by Austria who were one of the least impressive teams in the group stages and were potentially a tight offside away from beating Italy. Netherlands got taken out by another team England have already beaten.
Apart from maybe Belgium, England had, on paper , the toughest round of 16 match and, apart from Denmark, had probably the most comfortable win out of anyone.
I’m not saying England are the greatest football force the world has ever seen, or that we’re nailed on to win it now, but the constant negativity towards the team gets so tiresome. If they aren’t winning they’re getting dogs’ abuse. If they do win they get told they didn’t win well enough or only beat easy teams. Well ask Spain, France, Italy, and Netherlands how easy some of these supposed “easy teams” are to beat.
I seriously don’t know what some England fans want or expect from the team. If people can’t enjoy an England win against Germany, no matter what the relative quality of the sides is, then, frankly, I think supporting England might not be for them.
GS is a man with a plan and although some of it seems unnatural to most of us, if it wins us the tournament then he's to be applauded for having the balls to see it through and stick with it - as he said in his interview after - 'lose and you're buried' so he knows the tightrope he is walking but believes in what he is doing and isn't taking the easy option - i like that and its single minded manager's that end up being great ones - he's a way off that yet but lets see
Think back to Ramsey. He played winger(s) in the borefest v Uruguay in the first match then dumped the winger(s) and the rest is history.
I must be one of the only people that find him quite charismatic. He seems approachable, genuine, friendly, intelligent. I’d rather listen to him talk about the game than someone like Allardyce. I don’t always agree with what he says or even his tactics, but he’s got a lot more experience and coaching badges that I could ever dream of, so you just gotta trust what he’s trying to achieve.
I think Southgate is extremely likeable. Mourinho is charismatic but he’s also a bit of Dick. Southgate is thoughtful, intelligent, articulate, and genuine (I don’t know how anyone could not be pleased for him after his comments about carrying the pain of that penalty miss and guilt towards his teammates for 25 years). He’s the right man to be leading this group of players and it shouldn’t be underestimated what a good job he’s done fostering team spirit and allowing the players to be themselves.
Their stance on the taking the knee thing, things like the tweet from Henderson yesterday to that Queer fan - I think Southgate and this team are providing a bit of a figure head and voice for a more liberal section of English society that currently is not being well represented by the media and politicians. That’s part of why I personally want to see this lot succeed more than any England team before, but it’s also made them a target for some people that don’t like their stance on some of these things.
I must be one of the only people that find him quite charismatic. He seems approachable, genuine, friendly, intelligent. I’d rather listen to him talk about the game than someone like Allardyce. I don’t always agree with what he says or even his tactics, but he’s got a lot more experience and coaching badges that I could ever dream of, so you just gotta trust what he’s trying to achieve.
I think Southgate is extremely likeable. Mourinho is charismatic but he’s also a bit of Dick. Southgate is thoughtful, intelligent, articulate, and genuine (I don’t know how anyone could not be pleased for him after his comments about carrying the pain of that penalty miss and guilt towards his teammates for 25 years). He’s the right man to be leading this group of players and it shouldn’t be underestimated what a good job he’s done fostering team spirit and allowing the players to be themselves.
Their stance on the taking the knee thing, things like the tweet from Henderson yesterday to that Queer fan - I think Southgate and this team are providing a bit of a figure head and voice for a more liberal section of English society that currently is not being well represented by the media and politicians. That’s part of why I personally want to see this lot succeed more than any England team before, but it’s also made them a target for some people that don’t like their stance on some of these things.
I must be one of the only people that find him quite charismatic. He seems approachable, genuine, friendly, intelligent. I’d rather listen to him talk about the game than someone like Allardyce. I don’t always agree with what he says or even his tactics, but he’s got a lot more experience and coaching badges that I could ever dream of, so you just gotta trust what he’s trying to achieve.
I think Southgate is extremely likeable. Mourinho is charismatic but he’s also a bit of Dick. Southgate is thoughtful, intelligent, articulate, and genuine (I don’t know how anyone could not be pleased for him after his comments about carrying the pain of that penalty miss and guilt towards his teammates for 25 years). He’s the right man to be leading this group of players and it shouldn’t be underestimated what a good job he’s done fostering team spirit and allowing the players to be themselves.
Their stance on the taking the knee thing, things like the tweet from Henderson yesterday to that Queer fan - I think Southgate and this team are providing a bit of a figure head and voice for a more liberal section of English society that currently is not being well represented by the media and politicians. That’s part of why I personally want to see this lot succeed more than any England team before, but it’s also made them a target for some people that don’t like their stance on some of these things.
Nail on the head here. Exactly why I think those anti Southgate appear to be vehemently so, I suspect if you plotted a graph there would be a very strong correlation between the booers and those asking him to be sacked before the tournament.
i see stan wallymore is getting involved with the booing of national anthems which he calls a disgrace etc - this is the same bloke that whilst i was standing in a bar in marseille was jumping around outside saying how badly it was kicking off with the russians - it wasnt and we were standing having a nice pint.
i see stan wallymore is getting involved with the booing of national anthems which he calls a disgrace etc - this is the same bloke that whilst i was standing in a bar in marseille was jumping around outside saying how badly it was kicking off with the russians - it wasnt and we were standing having a nice pint.
Blokes a knob. Struggling to remember the outrage when God save the Queen was booed by the Scots at Wembley.
Another ode to those who went through the pain of Italia 90.
And as we head off to Italy again needing to stand tall - let’s give some airtime to my personal number one soundtrack to an England tournament summer:
My wife and I were so very fortunate to see the great man at Leeds Castle in 2004. He didn't sing Nessun Dorma that night as his 68 year old voice would have struggled to sing it as he would have wished, but the rest more than made up for it.
Not just a monumental voice but also the essence of what charisma truly means.
Comments
Too many people focus on "passion" or when we are talking national teams "patriotism" when sometimes it's a more understated and measured response you need. I think part of it is that these are fairly young players for the most part but considerably more intelligent and complex than the stereotypical "football player" (e.g Rashford's anti-poverty campaigning and Sterling's work against racism) and he recognises that.
This story was told to me by Andy Woodman, Charlton's ex Keeper coach and now Bromley's manager. Friends with Pardew as well, as West ham, Charlton and Newcastle shows the connection with the dad dancer.
Gareth is Freddie's Godfather, so best mate is not an exaggeration.
Gareth was never going to continue in football Manager after Middlesbrough as he had been financially astute and didn't need the stress of football management !!! Southgate didn't have his A licence or Pro Licence when he was at Middlesbrough.
(Both JJ and John Terry passed and got their pro coaching licence last week).
But after getting involved with the England set up he felt that previous England managers had not created the right ambience or atmosphere with senior pros not welcoming new kids who may take their place.
Similar to what Nigel Adkins is trying to achieve at Sparrows lane, Gareth was determined that players should relish being involved and yes, obvious, but create a club like band of brothers who if not in the starting 11 would still be 100% behind the team. Seeing the subs join the celebration he looked like he has succeeded in that at least.
Only knew Andy Woodman through Freddie Woodman going to my son's school and Andy kindly showed us the Cafc dressing room on a match day, 2 hours before KO when Parky was manager.
Very low key and the players all looked sleepy before the game as they arrived !
This is the Gospel truth, my brother went up to Kyle Reid and told him to take him the full back on the outside as he was so slow as he had seen him play the week before at Dagenham. Andy and Parky looked bemused, it was time to leave the dressing room and it was a surreal experience seeing Gary Docherty flat out on his back on the couch, nodding off.
12 minutes into the match Kyle Reid went pass the full back and pulled his hamstring.
My stomach hurt as I couldn't stop laughing at my Brother.
You get arrested for that sort of thing these days :-)
Germany are not the best side in the world but they still have a team full of players playing for the likes of Man City, Real, Chelsea, Bayern etc. - i.e. some of the very top club sides in the world, and many players who are recent Champions League winners. They had chances vs France in the group (although no one was trying to retrospectively belittle France’s win because of it), and they beat Portugal the reigning European champions. Of course they were going to have chances. How often do you watch a game and see one of the sides have zero chances unless they are in really poor form? It’s ludicrous to say Germany weren’t a true test. It was a huge test, of skill, tactics, and, particularly, psychology (because of the history with Germany and playing under the pressure of Wembley). England passed the test and passed well.
I seriously don’t know what some England fans want or expect from the team. If people can’t enjoy an England win against Germany, no matter what the relative quality of the sides is, then, frankly, I think supporting England might not be for them.
More like 55 years.
Dilemma for the boss as its a knock out game and you can't assume and look ahead too much.
Foden I think we could replace if he did pick up another yellow.
Maguire is the tough one.
Not just a monumental voice but also the essence of what charisma truly means.