I say this not as a criticism of Dobson's commitment or abilities, which are unmatched at this level. But is a deep-lying defensive midfielder even...optimal right now? Do other teams employ it and prosper? Is Dobson a brilliant throwback to the 00's or even 10's? Is his lack of breaking forward and dynamic attacking play a tactical weakness? A lot of questions that I feel need answering.
It's a fair question. However maybe framing it purely as dependent on Dobson is the issue here. Are the limitations because of him and the deep lying role or because there are weaknesses in the squad in general, for example.
Dobson is excellent as the deep lying player, Fraser shows signs of being a decent enough playmaker further forward but ideally they'd both be complemented by a proper ball carrying box to box type who can get the ball from Dobson, drive forwards and either lay off to Fraser to pick the killer pass or maybe try some shooting at range.
Gilbey, Morgan, McGrandles and Kilkenny have all been tried out and found wanting in either quality or consistency.
The common factor for ALL of Dobson's midfield partners is Dobson, though. Could it be that too much running and responsibility for team shape was heaped onto all of those players? I'm not saying I fully believe this (and Gilbey is a hider, screw him), but it can't be ignored.
It's a fair comment. On the other hand if you lose Dobson you also lose some more intangible elements like his leadership and effort.
After watching Luongo and Morsy on Saturday, that’s the standard of your holding midfielders you need at the top of this league. Don’t think Dobson is at that level
I know both the football and the results spoke for themself at the end with Adkins but I do feel sorry for him, I do get an inkling that he knew what he was doing and was strung up. Our end to the season previous was excellent
I've always thought he's been a little overrated. Would he get into the starting eleven of many teams near the top of the league, I'm not sure. The whole squad needs replacing to really make a decent go of next season
Literally the last person in the team that needs replacing.
Has anyone said to the contrary though?
No one has, but it doesn't mean he's beyond any questions, as BRE has just said, would he get into the say Ipswich or Plymouth's midfield? let alone Barnsley or Bolton?
Literally the last person in the team that needs replacing.
I don't think that's what's being said personally. I could have Leuth wrong - as I have so many, many times before - but I think he's wondering if you make him the foundation of the side.
Dobson would be fine, for a promotion side, if he were the third-best CM in the side, basically. I am thinking kind of like Danny Hollands, or some of the types mentioned above. If he could be the guy to sit in front of the back four with better technical players surrounding him (I think Fraser could be one, but we'd desperately need a top quality box-to-box type), then that's fine (though against weaker teams he would be somewhat redundant).
The fact he doesn't need replacing is all well and good - but he is a standout in a mediocre side, and I'd rather he was a body in a side good enough to be promoted.
He could easily be part of a promotion winning squad.
Whether he be a regular starter comes down to the balance of the team.
Semedo was seen as part of the problem here but he got promoted in 2nd with Wednesday when we won the league.
We’re missing those stand out players that take the team up a level or two. I don’t think he’s one of them despite being one of our better players.
Powell had Yann and an excellent GK and back four. Bowyer had Taylor, Grant, Bielik, Aribo and Cullen. They both backed that up with several good, reliable L1 players, exactly what Dobson is.
I’m not too concerned a Championship team will be after him in the summer. As others have said he’s not the type of DM clubs tend to look for at higher levels. His touch and passing is underrated by some but he’s not at the level Cullen was or where Bielik got to as he became more consistent over the course of the season.
If he’s replaced it really needs to be someone at that sort of level - a player who over time proves themselves too good for L1 and a key player for the Championship.
Never seen Dobson get forward so much as he did tonight. Either they read my posts or they realised this was something that had to be added to his game. Long live it.
I've been having disquieting thoughts. Can our tactical experts please assemble.
It's often said on here that a promotion-winning team could be built around Dobson.
Could it really?
Last season's Dobbo, probably. This season's probably not.
I actually think he has improved this season. Certainly in terms of his ability to drop the shoulder in a tight space and with his forward passing.
That being said, and it’s something I’ve been mentioning for a while - I look at the skill set of the players in the top 6 who play in his role or similar, and although they may lack his tackling and interception stats, their mobility and ability to drive forwards with or without the ball really sets them aside.
I am with Leuth now in as much as I was thinking maybe if we went 4-2-3-1 and had someone alongside Dobson then he could flourish a little more. But then after seeing Morsy and Luongo (perhaps a little too good for this league) I still think he would be too one paced.
Id never count him out though. He’s one of those players who seems to always come back stronger and better.
Well, arguably Morgan has tried dropping right in there, and it's worked to a degree. But then Fraser has been the sacrifice - he just isn't a number 10, doesn't quite have the game for it. You're compromising something no matter how you do it. Morgan, Henry, Kilkenny in a double-pivot with Dobson could only work with a brilliant Number 10 in the team. And we don't have anything like that. JRS probably isn't far off, but it isn't his game either. Payne would be the one, but it just doesn't happen. And even with the double-pivot, you need Dobson to be able to be the one who provides attacking shape sometimes.
Our lack of No.10 is the problem I think, not Dobson. A decent 10 would allow us to go 4-2-3-1 and it actually work. Fraser isn’t a number 10 but I would like to see him in the 2 next to Dobson so he can be the progresser. He did well there in Garner’s 4-4-2 so I think a 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 with someone next to Dobson who can keep things ticking is what we need. I still think we missed a trick with JFC in this role but maybe he is past it. Fraser might not be the answer either but that’s the only way I can see us setting up a promotion winning midfield with both of them in it.
I do think if we play the 4-3-3 we become over-reliant on Dobsons on the ball abilities. Fine against a poor side like MK last night but against a decent high pressing side Dobson gets exposed if he is the single pivot. He is so good at what he does that I do think it is worth us setting up so that he has that player next to him. From what we have it could be Fraser or the returning McGrandles, but might be one to bring in this summer
I've been having disquieting thoughts. Can our tactical experts please assemble.
It's often said on here that a promotion-winning team could be built around Dobson.
Could it really?
Last season's Dobbo, probably. This season's probably not.
I actually think he has improved this season. Certainly in terms of his ability to drop the shoulder in a tight space and with his forward passing.
That being said, and it’s something I’ve been mentioning for a while - I look at the skill set of the players in the top 6 who play in his role or similar, and although they may lack his tackling and interception stats, their mobility and ability to drive forwards with or without the ball really sets them aside.
I am with Leuth now in as much as I was thinking maybe if we went 4-2-3-1 and had someone alongside Dobson then he could flourish a little more. But then after seeing Morsy and Luongo (perhaps a little too good for this league) I still think he would be too one paced.
Id never count him out though. He’s one of those players who seems to always come back stronger and better.
Well, arguably Morgan has tried dropping right in there, and it's worked to a degree. But then Fraser has been the sacrifice - he just isn't a number 10, doesn't quite have the game for it. You're compromising something no matter how you do it. Morgan, Henry, Kilkenny in a double-pivot with Dobson could only work with a brilliant Number 10 in the team. And we don't have anything like that. JRS probably isn't far off, but it isn't his game either. Payne would be the one, but it just doesn't happen. And even with the double-pivot, you need Dobson to be able to be the one who provides attacking shape sometimes.
Our lack of No.10 is the problem I think, not Dobson. A decent 10 would allow us to go 4-2-3-1 and it actually work. Fraser isn’t a number 10 but I would like to see him in the 2 next to Dobson so he can be the progresser. He did well there in Garner’s 4-4-2 so I think a 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 with someone next to Dobson who can keep things ticking is what we need. I still think we missed a trick with JFC in this role but maybe he is past it. Fraser might not be the answer either but that’s the only way I can see us setting up a promotion winning midfield with both of them in it.
I do think if we play the 4-3-3 we become over-reliant on Dobsons on the ball abilities. Fine against a poor side like MK last night but against a decent high pressing side Dobson gets exposed if he is the single pivot. He is so good at what he does that I do think it is worth us setting up so that he has that player next to him. From what we have it could be Fraser or the returning McGrandles, but might be one to bring in this summer
Well, yeah. We have lots of players who are fine with a midfield 2 next to Dobson. When Garner reverted to 4-4-2, Dobson and Fraser worked pretty well as a 2. But yeah, that number 10. Of course, we have potentially one of the best number 10s below the Premiership in our squad, but he's completely broken forever BECAUSE WE'RE CURSED
- Championship Manager - Break-even Charlton - New Owners, we are loaded
There's way too much theoretical thinking in the posts above. We have more pigeons at the Valley than fans. Get real.
Get real?! Wtf
I'm not "playing" any of this, but putting my assessment of Dobson's footballing ability in what I think is context. I even elaborate on this in my post.
Foundation of the side, if you really need to be beaten over the head with it, would mean the cornerstone, the person you build our hopes around. I don't think he is the player you build the team around - but he has the ability to be in the starting 11 of a promotion-calibre side.
The issue, of course, is that the other players I (and other posters) have described are pretty rare. I'm not waving a magic wand in any sense or thinking "we can just do XYZ"
Comments
Dobson would be fine, for a promotion side, if he were the third-best CM in the side, basically. I am thinking kind of like Danny Hollands, or some of the types mentioned above. If he could be the guy to sit in front of the back four with better technical players surrounding him (I think Fraser could be one, but we'd desperately need a top quality box-to-box type), then that's fine (though against weaker teams he would be somewhat redundant).
The fact he doesn't need replacing is all well and good - but he is a standout in a mediocre side, and I'd rather he was a body in a side good enough to be promoted.
- Championship Manager
- Break-even Charlton
- New Owners, we are loaded
There's way too much theoretical thinking in the posts above. We have more pigeons at the Valley than fans.
Whether he be a regular starter comes down to the balance of the team.
Semedo was seen as part of the problem here but he got promoted in 2nd with Wednesday when we won the league.
I’m not too concerned a Championship team will be after him in the summer. As others have said he’s not the type of DM clubs tend to look for at higher levels. His touch and passing is underrated by some but he’s not at the level Cullen was or where Bielik got to as he became more consistent over the course of the season.
If he’s replaced it really needs to be someone at that sort of level - a player who over time proves themselves too good for L1 and a key player for the Championship.
I do think if we play the 4-3-3 we become over-reliant on Dobsons on the ball abilities. Fine against a poor side like MK last night but against a decent high pressing side Dobson gets exposed if he is the single pivot. He is so good at what he does that I do think it is worth us setting up so that he has that player next to him. From what we have it could be Fraser or the returning McGrandles, but might be one to bring in this summer
I'm not "playing" any of this, but putting my assessment of Dobson's footballing ability in what I think is context. I even elaborate on this in my post.
Foundation of the side, if you really need to be beaten over the head with it, would mean the cornerstone, the person you build our hopes around. I don't think he is the player you build the team around - but he has the ability to be in the starting 11 of a promotion-calibre side.
The issue, of course, is that the other players I (and other posters) have described are pretty rare. I'm not waving a magic wand in any sense or thinking "we can just do XYZ"
13 in the League | 1 in the FA Cup | 1 in the League Cup | 1 in the EFL Trophy
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/george-dobson/leistungsdaten/spieler/292734/plus/0?saison=2021
He was never suspended during the season for the first five, or first ten bookings, no doubt because he reached those milestones after the cut-off
I'd be tempted to play Zach Mitchell in his place