I thought Arter and Dobson looked much better than Morgan and Watson. Arter looked knackered by the end of the first half though but you can see he’s a big upgrade on the other two. His set pieces were miles better for a start. He was neat and tidy which is what you want in there. And he put his foot in. He’ll be good. I thought Dobson looked really decent too.
Watching MOTD and they mentioned Sane Mane scoring his 100th goal for Liverpool & that got me thinking......when was the last time we've had a player score 100 goals for us..... or even 50.
I appreciate fluctuating between the Premier League, the Championship & League 1 over the past 30 years has meant that we havent managed to hold onto players for too long due to promotion (not being good enough) or relegation (having to sell to balance the books) but surely over that time we should have signed a decent enough player to have got 50 or 60 goals over even a 3 year contract (because since 1998 NONE of our strikers have signed another contract after their original one has run out)
Too tired & pissed off tonight to go trawling through the record books but I would say just Darren Bent, Andy Hunt & Clive Mendonca would be the ones anywhere near getting to 50. Before the Premier League days probably just Killer.
So in my 45 years supporting this club I reckon I've only ever seen 1 player who has scored over 50 goals for this club. Until that is rectified & we unearth or buy a striker who you know will get you 20 goals a season, regularly, then we are just going to stagnate....or worse !
Johnnie Jackson scored 51 goals for us.
50.
Stupid I know but it still irritates me that the club changed their statistics years later to award Jackson a goal at Luton that was originally (and rightly) originally awarded to Racon.
With Dobson, I think I can see a useful player in that defensive role protecting the defence and linking play. The midfield needs another player and Arter and X may be the best option. But is Arter the answer, he is being paid enough to be, and who is X? Morgan looks like he could be X when he doesn't play but not when he does!
We have bought two wingers at the end of last season and this. You have to have two strikers and a very offensive outlook to maximise this but then you need a very effective midfield. And/or effective full backs who can support them. But it goes back to the point as to whether you need two wingers. It all looks like disjointed planning.
But yesterday, we had a very defensive mindset and I would argue, that goes counter to our recruitment.
There's no midfield guile. Just one reliable footballing midfielder would make a world of difference (oh for an Andy Reid or even a Yoni Buyens....)
We don't have that, so I'm going 4-5-1 at Gills; Matthews Deji Lavelle Souare - Clare Arter Watson Lee CBT - Davison. Try to keep a clean sheet and nick a goal from somewhere.
A couple of weeks ago I said I was not surprised by the performance or the result, as our squad is made up of bang average League one squad players....................... I feel I may have overestimated them
Appoint a UK resident CEO (Peter Varley?) to look after the Valley; get rid of Keohane; Make Alan Curbishley Director of Football; say goodbye to Roddy. Get the players fit to play 100 minutes; get rid of anyone disrupting the dressing room; use the players in their best positions; play systems to maximise their strengths.
Because the owner knows sod all about football he has allowed a situation where everyone has an excuse and everyone has someone to blame. Including the players.
Adkins is partly to blame because he shouldn't have taken the job with out the final say on players and his back room staff.
All this bollocks about pathways for coaches means if/when Adkins goes Jackson or Euall has to get the job. Even if they don't any other new manager has to keep them.
The manager hasn't been allowed to manage or appoint his staff. That being said he isn't blameless and should be doing better.
Sacking Adkins might get a small new manager bounce but it won't solve all the other problems. Major surgery, on and off the pitch, is required. Either that or believe you have done the right thing and stick with it, even if it takes a long time.
I’ve said before, if there is no clarity about who is in charge a) on the football side and b) at The Valley, it is a recipe for chaos.
Wouldn’t dream of contradicting you but as far as the playing side is concerned the boss is very clear. Its Adkins. Anything behind the scenes of whom reports to whom shouldn’t impact in the slightest in how NA sets up his teams and who he chooses to start. That is where the biggest problem lays. Getting the team winning again might not resolve those other hierarchy issues but my god it would lift the whole place. A football club is never happy when it’s not winning and even worse when it’s disastrously underperforming like Charlton are. Either NA finds a way to get the results flowing or TS has to find someone who can. I never dreamed that at any point this season things would become toxic again but that’s where we’re heading if we’re not already there. Something must change pdq.
Saying on quest Gillingham had a shortage of beer yesterday, not only is it hard work watching Charlton at the moment , but you can’t even drown your sorrows!
Gunter back on his preferred side and he was probably worse than on the left. Would be happy if that's the last we see of him but he seems to have something over Adkins. How someone with so many international appearances (even if it is only Wales) can be so poor is beyond me.
Saying on quest Gillingham had a shortage of beer yesterday, not only is it hard work watching Charlton at the moment , but you can’t even drown your sorrows!
Gunter back on his preferred side and he was probably worse than on the left. Would be happy if that's the last we see of him but he seems to have something over Adkins. How someone with so many international appearances (even if it is only Wales) can be so poor is beyond me.
And with every appearance he gets closer to being able to activate his extension option.
We’ve had a lot of poor players over the years. He rarely looks so bad he needs to be dropped (thinking of the likes of Lepoint) but he’s just so average and rarely adds anything positive.
Matthews back in at right back for me. I’d rather try Deji there over giving Gunter more game time. We need confidence and ability on the ball. Gunter for all his experience is someone happy to hoof it and avoid risking making a mistake.
Saying on quest Gillingham had a shortage of beer yesterday, not only is it hard work watching Charlton at the moment , but you can’t even drown your sorrows!
Wasn’t there, didn’t watch or listen so can’t comment on the game.
However, I do have some sympathy for Adkins. I’m not a fan of having a recruitment team that recruits the players, hands them to the manager and says go on, fuck it up with that lot. The manager should be the one in charge of recruitment, then if it goes tits up we know whom to blame. Whom is at fault now? Roddy? TS? Gallen? Adkins said he wanted his players in place for pre season. He knows why that was needed. To get playing systems in place, to get the players gelling. Now you can’t get every player in that early of course but we left most of our business far too late. It put us and Adkins on the back foot. Then we discovered that a few of those recruits look inadequate (Dobson, Clare for two) and had to find replacements on deadline day, replacements who are not fully up to speed and able to play a full 90 minutes (Lee, Leko, Soare, Arter). Not Adkins fault, shoddy recruitment process.
I’m not saying Adkins doesn’t shoulder some of the blame but I don’t think he’s been helped behind the scenes as much as he’d been hoping, maybe even promised.
Bang on the money.
Once things start haphazardly and results are negative it makes it twice as hard to get confidence in a team.
Whether Adkins is the right or wrong manager the fact is he was given the short straw to start with.
We are 23rd in the 3rd tier. Have we ever been lower ?
I don't want to turn up at the valley and see Great players like Mendonca and Darren Bent scoring goals from 15 and 20 odd years ago in the Premier on the big screen before seeing Charlton outplayed by Cheltenham. (Unfortunately I did)
I doubt he would consider Cafc this time around as he could get a Championship gig, but *Chris Wilder 100% for me. Listening to Wilder on Radio 5 yesterday on the way to a local game was mesmeric with his positive views on twin strikers, attacking full backs and why he tried an attacking over lapping CB in the Championship and League 1. He knew that once United got to the Premier the possession would drop from 60% to 35% against the better team's and you adapt your Tactics. Wilder over achieved big time in his first season.
Only saw the goals on quest last night but after spending 15 days on the training ground with the players during the international break and then last week with no mid week feature, we are a shambles.
When you have a 5 year plan you need the template to start that journey. Nigel Adkins was brought in to start that process, but for a myriad of reasons it's been a non starter.
Big decisions to be made after the Gillingham and Portsmouth matches if the inept performances continue.
* Don't believe Wilder will happen so give JJ and Jason Euell the Job until the end of the season and then see where we are, as we need unity and cohesive not just between the players but with the crowd.
I know it sounds odd but I am glad we didn't scramble a last minute equaliser, it would have been a platform for excuses, and it would not have papered over the cracks we have as wide as the Grand Canyon.
Disagree. It wouldn't have papered over the cracks and another point on our total for the next manager.
Just listened to NA’s post match analysis. There’s very little confidence there I think at the moment.
I don’t know how he played y’day, but Chris Gunter is not a wing back as Adkins described the set up in the way he did. He also mentioned Wycombe have a group of players and an identity in the way they play. I understand it may be still be a work in progress with us given the amount of new players in, and late arrivals toward the end of the window, but it seems he doesn’t know what that identity or group of players should be, now his preferred 4-3-3 formation seems to have been abandoned (not that it was pulling up trees in its own right).
The other worrying thing is that he referenced Gilbey being very dominant in that formation and we don’t have him available yet. Are we seriously saying one player will come back and our fortunes return. It’s never about one player. The telling factor for me is that when Sage and FA do their excellent pre match predictions, we all have a different opinion on who the starting line up should be. 3 years ago that would never have been the case. Everyone would’ve probably opted for a very similar line up and it was settled. Now, whatever midfielders we pick are much of a muchness. I don’t see the difference at the moment between Kirk, DJ, Blackett Taylor, or Dobson, Watson, Morgan etc.
Is he going to stick with the 3-4-3 we saw to combat Wycombe, or do we need another formation to combat Gillingham? There was a tactics thread earlier in the week. I said I don’t think players at this level are intelligent enough to play anything other than 4-4-2, Tutt-tutt offered an example of a non league team he watched play a modern formation and do it very well, so I’ll reappraise that statement, I don’t think the players we’ve got are intelligent enough to play anything other than 4-4-2. I think we need to go back to basics. However, even that might not be enough
You can be too complicated for the players. I know what you mean about 4-4-2 and simplifying can work. You can tweak 4-4-2 as well whereas players know what their role is but you may have one wing back and one winger on the other side allowing an extra midfielder. Something like Curbs was suggesting he did a few weeks back when we were off form.
It isn't for us to find the answers though as nobody listens to us and probably rightfully so. Adkins has to find the answers. Currently our defence can look ok but not reliably for 90 minutes. It is too easy to get balls in and shots off against it. Our midfield is not dominant and doesn't pose a goal threat or support our attack, Our attack is isolated and too easy to supress. The whole system needs reviewing and a way needs to found to link all areas far better than we are doing currently.
I would say that whatever we come up with, going ultra defensive with our lack of confidence is a recipe for defeats. We are playing a team that has just lost at home on Tuesday and our best chance of success is taking the game to them. Will we? I can take that we won't to the bank. One or two shots on target at best.
what amazes me is that the one player who does seem to have a bit of confidence on the ball - Lee - gets dropped from the starting line up - was there any explanation for that? the logic behind fitting jason pierce and chris gunter into a team yet leaving out probably your most creative player in a team devoid of much creation, is beyond me
Only Charlton Athletic could get a stable owner and a well known manager at this level and actually get WORSE!
Adkins looks clueless and I think letting JJ have 5-10 games with this squad to see what he can do wouldn’t be the worst move.
Fancy hiring a Nigel in the first place….
Im not sure JJ is the answer, like the fella, spoke a few times but for me he's been in and around shittyness for a few years.
JJ doesn't pick the team, and it wasJJ the players ran to when Bauer winning goal at Wembley went in.
JJ has a winning record when he picked the team.
Better give him a 35 year contract immediately then. Fucking hell 😂😂😂
I have already given reasons why I would like to see Chris Wilder given the Job as manager. JJ and Euell until the end of the season as caretakers because I can't see Chris Wilder coming to a team in free fall and where the infrastructure in recruitment is hazy with how much say the manager has ?
Not only that, but he is a player with a goal scoring pedigree. Something we clearly lack. I have been stating a fact so simple since the start of the season that a lot of people discount because it is too simple, but it is true. Players that score goals and create goals do that and players that don't don't.
Look at the goal scoring records of those in our squad and we are short of those that do. That isn't to say the players that don't are rubbish, but you need enough of those that do. I have a motto, never take goals out the team. If you lose them, then you have to put them back in. Not always in the same way, but players that score 1 goal in 60 are not going to suddenly score say 15 in 60. Maybe the odd one will, but that happening is as rare as hen's teeth.
JFC, Gilbey and Aneke are players who know where the goal is. Clare, Morgan and Dobson don't although Dobson's role was not to score goals. Lee should be the first name on the team sheet at the moment.
We are 23rd in the 3rd tier. Have we ever been lower ?
I don't want to turn up at the valley and see Great players like Mendonca and Darren Bent scoring goals from 15 and 20 odd years ago in the Premier on the big screen before seeing Charlton outplayed by Cheltenham. (Unfortunately I did)
I doubt he would consider Cafc this time around as he could get a Championship gig, but *Chris Wilder 100% for me. Listening to Wilder on Radio 5 yesterday on the way to a local game was mesmeric with his positive views on twin strikers, attacking full backs and why he tried an attacking over lapping CB in the Championship and League 1. He knew that once United got to the Premier the possession would drop from 60% to 35% against the better team's and you adapt your Tactics. Wilder over achieved big time in his first season.
Only saw the goals on quest last night but after spending 15 days on the training ground with the players during the international break and then last week with no mid week feature, we are a shambles.
When you have a 5 year plan you need the template to start that journey. Nigel Adkins was brought in to start that process, but for a myriad of reasons it's been a non starter.
Big decisions to be made after the Gillingham and Portsmouth matches if the inept performances continue.
* Don't believe Wilder will happen so give JJ and Jason Euell the Job until the end of the season and then see where we are, as we need unity and cohesive not just between the players but with the crowd.
So you go from wanting Chris Wilder, a man with years of experience & managing in League 1, The Championship & The Premiership to 2 complete novices.
I'm sure there must be an in between somewhere out there.
Comments
Stupid I know but it still irritates me that the club changed their statistics years later to award Jackson a goal at Luton that was originally (and rightly) originally awarded to Racon.
We have bought two wingers at the end of last season and this. You have to have two strikers and a very offensive outlook to maximise this but then you need a very effective midfield. And/or effective full backs who can support them. But it goes back to the point as to whether you need two wingers. It all looks like disjointed planning.
But yesterday, we had a very defensive mindset and I would argue, that goes counter to our recruitment.
We don't have that, so I'm going 4-5-1 at Gills; Matthews Deji Lavelle Souare - Clare Arter Watson Lee CBT - Davison. Try to keep a clean sheet and nick a goal from somewhere.
Get the players fit to play 100 minutes; get rid of anyone disrupting the dressing room; use the players in their best positions; play systems to maximise their strengths.
We’ve had a lot of poor players over the years. He rarely looks so bad he needs to be dropped (thinking of the likes of Lepoint) but he’s just so average and rarely adds anything positive.
Matthews back in at right back for me. I’d rather try Deji there over giving Gunter more game time. We need confidence and ability on the ball. Gunter for all his experience is someone happy to hoof it and avoid risking making a mistake.
Once things start haphazardly and results are negative it makes it twice as hard to get confidence in a team.
Whether Adkins is the right or wrong manager the fact is he was given the short straw to start with.
We are 23rd in the 3rd tier. Have we ever been lower ?
I don't want to turn up at the valley and see Great players like Mendonca and Darren Bent scoring goals from 15 and 20 odd years ago in the Premier on the big screen before seeing Charlton outplayed by Cheltenham. (Unfortunately I did)
I doubt he would consider Cafc this time around as he could get a Championship gig, but *Chris Wilder 100% for me. Listening to Wilder on Radio 5 yesterday on the way to a local game was mesmeric with his positive views on twin strikers, attacking full backs and why he tried an attacking over lapping CB in the Championship and League 1.
He knew that once United got to the Premier the possession would drop from 60% to 35% against the better team's and you adapt your Tactics. Wilder over achieved big time in his first season.
Only saw the goals on quest last night but after spending 15 days on the training ground with the players during the international break and then last week with no mid week feature, we are a shambles.
When you have a 5 year plan you need the template to start that journey. Nigel Adkins was brought in to start that process, but for a myriad of reasons it's been a non starter.
Big decisions to be made after the Gillingham and Portsmouth matches if the inept performances continue.
* Don't believe Wilder will happen so give JJ and Jason Euell the Job until the end of the season and then see where we are, as we need unity and cohesive not just between the players but with the crowd.
JJ doesn't pick the team, and it was JJ the players ran to when Bauer winning goal at Wembley went in.
JJ has a winning record when he picked the team.
The other worrying thing is that he referenced Gilbey being very dominant in that formation and we don’t have him available yet. Are we seriously saying one player will come back and our fortunes return. It’s never about one player. The telling factor for me is that when Sage and FA do their excellent pre match predictions, we all have a different opinion on who the starting line up should be. 3 years ago that would never have been the case. Everyone would’ve probably opted for a very similar line up and it was settled. Now, whatever midfielders we pick are much of a muchness. I don’t see the difference at the moment between Kirk, DJ, Blackett Taylor, or Dobson, Watson, Morgan etc.
Is he going to stick with the 3-4-3 we saw to combat Wycombe, or do we need another formation to combat Gillingham? There was a tactics thread earlier in the week. I said I don’t think players at this level are intelligent enough to play anything other than 4-4-2, Tutt-tutt offered an example of a non league team he watched play a modern formation and do it very well, so I’ll reappraise that statement, I don’t think the players we’ve got are intelligent enough to play anything other than 4-4-2. I think we need to go back to basics. However, even that might not be enough
It isn't for us to find the answers though as nobody listens to us and probably rightfully so. Adkins has to find the answers. Currently our defence can look ok but not reliably for 90 minutes. It is too easy to get balls in and shots off against it. Our midfield is not dominant and doesn't pose a goal threat or support our attack, Our attack is isolated and too easy to supress. The whole system needs reviewing and a way needs to found to link all areas far better than we are doing currently.
I would say that whatever we come up with, going ultra defensive with our lack of confidence is a recipe for defeats. We are playing a team that has just lost at home on Tuesday and our best chance of success is taking the game to them. Will we? I can take that we won't to the bank. One or two shots on target at best.
I have already given reasons why I would like to see Chris Wilder given the Job as manager.
JJ and Euell until the end of the season as caretakers because I can't see Chris Wilder coming to a team in free fall and where the infrastructure in recruitment is hazy with how much say the manager has ?
Look at the goal scoring records of those in our squad and we are short of those that do. That isn't to say the players that don't are rubbish, but you need enough of those that do. I have a motto, never take goals out the team. If you lose them, then you have to put them back in. Not always in the same way, but players that score 1 goal in 60 are not going to suddenly score say 15 in 60. Maybe the odd one will, but that happening is as rare as hen's teeth.
JFC, Gilbey and Aneke are players who know where the goal is. Clare, Morgan and Dobson don't although Dobson's role was not to score goals. Lee should be the first name on the team sheet at the moment.
I'm sure there must be an in between somewhere out there.