We now actually look worse than when Roland was in charge. How is that possible?!
Because he left the football club to a load of conmen and gutted the club before he went and now we are seeing Thomas have to balance a rebuild of the club's infrastructure with trying to get some success on the pitch.
Personally I think whilst he is trying, he needs to make and learn from mistakes to get it right. It was never going to he the instant success we all wanted it to be, I did however hope we'd have been in a better place by now.
The squad is now worse than it was at the end of last season. 5 or 6 signings in the summer could of had us in and around the play offs.
We were in a much better position than Wigan at the end of last season, we aren't now. We probably spent about as much as them as well.
4 transfer windows, and let's be honest a lot of money, have made us worse. That's some achievement.
Can't believe we let Chuks go in the summer and didn't replace him for the 1st half of this season with anyone, maybe because we were still paying Ronnies wages!
We now actually look worse than when Roland was in charge. How is that possible?!
Because after him we had ESI 1 and 2. The damage on the squad is still showing and may take another summer window to address.
I like most am not enjoying where we are but I do see light at the end of the tunnel.
I think recruitment in the summer was not great either but hopeful TS has learnt from this and made changes.
But why does it need to take so many windows to sort out the ESI damage? Last season we just missed the playoffs, which is a an excellent base for a promotion campaign, but we screwed up last summer, which has nothing to do with ESI.
Wigan's squad were decimated by Administration as they lost player after player, they finished 5th bottom last season, having scraped survival. In ONE WINDOW they bought a team and are now top of the table under a rookie manager who used to be assistant at the club...
More recently, I thought we were outstanding in the Norwich fixture and made a PL side look very poor for most of the match, so I can't totally buy into the 'players are rubbish', as the sole reason for the poor performances. They looked pretty good only 17 days ago, so what happened? Do they not care so much when playing a low profile team up north on a freezing Tuesday night?
Brownie on Charlton TV during the Crewe game made a good point that we shouldn't get too excited by the Norwich game, as they fielded a disjointed side with lots of changes. Thus while we played well, to an extent they made us look good
Its definitely a weird one. I still think Jackson is a hungry, enthusiastic young manager and deserves a proper shot at the job. When he was caretaker, he managed to install belief and a reason for the players to put in good performances.
Then he got it and now you're looking for the next motivation, the next seasonal target. Easier said than done when you got far too many players on the downward curve in their career and players getting injured too often.
I agree he needs to learn to adapt and change tactics/formations better, but he's still learning and perhaps he thinks he's stuck with too many players that don't have the ability or footballing brain to adapt quickly.
This season is write off and i'm not gonna judge JJ using these shirkers wearing the shirt this season.
TS really needs to back his man this summer and then we see if Jackson was the correct decision.
100%.
You're not going to get very far if you never adapt your formation and ideas when getting outplayed or losing games.
Take last night for example. It was plainly obvious that Watson was having a mare, so ok maybe don't change it at half time when winning but 10-15 minutes into the 2nd half we were still being overrun was surely time? Why was Watson not subbed? Why when being over run did we not change things and match up with them?
More recently, I thought we were outstanding in the Norwich fixture and made a PL side look very poor for most of the match, so I can't totally buy into the 'players are rubbish', as the sole reason for the poor performances. They looked pretty good only 17 days ago, so what happened? Do they not care so much when playing a low profile team up north on a freezing Tuesday night?
Brownie on Charlton TV during the Crewe game made a good point that we shouldn't get too excited by the Norwich game, as they fielded a disjointed side with lots of changes. Thus while we played well, to an extent they made us look good
Anybody getting excited by the Norwich game does not understand football, The FA Cup throws up all sorts of anomalies due to players being rested, played out of position or making their debut.
As Brownie said, Norwich made us look good on the day, not ourselves.
Its definitely a weird one. I still think Jackson is a hungry, enthusiastic young manager and deserves a proper shot at the job. When he was caretaker, he managed to install belief and a reason for the players to put in good performances.
Then he got it and now you're looking for the next motivation, the next seasonal target. Easier said than done when you got far too many players on the downward curve in their career and players getting injured too often.
I agree he needs to learn to adapt and change tactics/formations better, but he's still learning and perhaps he thinks he's stuck with too many players that don't have the ability or footballing brain to adapt quickly.
This season is write off and i'm not gonna judge JJ using these shirkers wearing the shirt this season.
TS really needs to back his man this summer and then we see if Jackson was the correct decision.
It all kind of went wrong after 'that' speech.
We've won here and we'll go to X and win and y and win and z and win....
I guess its nice for fans to see into the dressing room discussions, but I'm a firm believer that what happens in there, stays in there. The evidence for us is what happens on the pitch. I think Jackson definitely said the right thing, I just don't think our opposition should have seen it!
Bloody stupid thing to put out on social media by the club
Can't believe we let Chuks go in the summer and didn't replace him for the 1st half of this season with anyone, maybe because we were still paying Ronnies wages!
We now actually look worse than when Roland was in charge. How is that possible?!
Because he left the football club to a load of conmen and gutted the club before he went and now we are seeing Thomas have to balance a rebuild of the club's infrastructure with trying to get some success on the pitch.
Personally I think whilst he is trying, he needs to make and learn from mistakes to get it right. It was never going to he the instant success we all wanted it to be, I did however hope we'd have been in a better place by now.
The squad is now worse than it was at the end of last season. 5 or 6 signings in the summer could of had us in and around the play offs.
We were in a much better position than Wigan at the end of last season, we aren't now. We probably spent about as much as them as well.
4 transfer windows, and let's be honest a lot of money, have made us worse. That's some achievement.
This.
We didn't replace: Aneke and Shinnie's role and failed to improve on the weaker areas RB, CB and Schwartz' role, our experienced players became 1 year older.
Millar was replaced with Kirk, on paper a fair signing.
Essentially, all we did was add a couple of wingers in Leko and CBT as options.
Too many of these posts I agree with, however bad last night was, isn’t that the furthest we’ve ever got in this tin pot pizza trophy?
Got to the Area Semi-Finals (which would be the QFs in this modern format) and lost on penalties against Brentford back in 2010-11 - Our history of getting beyond the QFs in Cup Competitions is really bad.
Full Members Cup is the only time we've done it since we won the FA Cup.
Since then we've gone out at the Quarters on eight occasions.
We now actually look worse than when Roland was in charge. How is that possible?!
Because after him we had ESI 1 and 2. The damage on the squad is still showing and may take another summer window to address.
I like most am not enjoying where we are but I do see light at the end of the tunnel.
I think recruitment in the summer was not great either but hopeful TS has learnt from this and made changes.
But why does it need to take so many windows to sort out the ESI damage? Last season we just missed the playoffs, which is a an excellent base for a promotion campaign, but we screwed up last summer, which has nothing to do with ESI.
Wigan's squad were decimated by Administration as they lost player after player, they finished 5th bottom last season, having scraped survival. In ONE WINDOW they bought a team and are now top of the table under a rookie manager who used to be assistant at the club...
I’ve also said this a lot on socials but it gets glossed over by TS fans as it doesn’t suit their narrative of how well TS is doing.
You just get the he “saved the club” line and the other favourite he “had to rebuild the infrastructure”
But Wigan we’re in a worse state than us they hardly had a player left, just survived relegation & admin.
Clearly they have done an amazing job so kudos to them and it’s unfair to expect the same level of success but surely we should at least be competing or seeing shoots of recovery… instead we are going backwards alarmingly quickly.
We now actually look worse than when Roland was in charge. How is that possible?!
Because after him we had ESI 1 and 2. The damage on the squad is still showing and may take another summer window to address.
I like most am not enjoying where we are but I do see light at the end of the tunnel.
I think recruitment in the summer was not great either but hopeful TS has learnt from this and made changes.
But why does it need to take so many windows to sort out the ESI damage? Last season we just missed the playoffs, which is a an excellent base for a promotion campaign, but we screwed up last summer, which has nothing to do with ESI.
Wigan's squad were decimated by Administration as they lost player after player, they finished 5th bottom last season, having scraped survival. In ONE WINDOW they bought a team and are now top of the table under a rookie manager who used to be assistant at the club...
This.
You can't just use the ESI excuse window after window after window.
We've had enough time to turn things around, we have gotten worse instead.
Just watched the after match video with Jacko and the body language was a bit, "oh well", with a shrug of the shoulders, now I appreciate he ain't gonna be happy and up for a chat, but he seems to lack the intensity of a guy who is gonna get things put right, "It's a shame", "Could have done better but we knew Hartlepool were a good team"... I was very pro Jacko when he was in the caretaker role, and still think and hope he will come good given the time, but we have just gone out to Hartlepool ffs Jacko, where's the frustration and emotion that gives us hope that it will be sorted. On to Portsmouth Monday we go, and we can only hope that he has seriously read the riot act to each of them or we could get a repeat performance at Fratton..
We now actually look worse than when Roland was in charge. How is that possible?!
Because after him we had ESI 1 and 2. The damage on the squad is still showing and may take another summer window to address.
I like most am not enjoying where we are but I do see light at the end of the tunnel.
I think recruitment in the summer was not great either but hopeful TS has learnt from this and made changes.
But why does it need to take so many windows to sort out the ESI damage? Last season we just missed the playoffs, which is a an excellent base for a promotion campaign, but we screwed up last summer, which has nothing to do with ESI.
Wigan's squad were decimated by Administration as they lost player after player, they finished 5th bottom last season, having scraped survival. In ONE WINDOW they bought a team and are now top of the table under a rookie manager who used to be assistant at the club...
I think we just completely underestimated the window and that other clubs like Wigan would spend a lot of money, but you have to prepare properly for a season and expect or consider that other teams who have been taken over or wanting to go for promotion will do that.
Not that you have to match them in terms of wages and fees but you have to work around it.
I think TS was naive to not think about the other clubs and possibly the strength of the league this year. My worry is that what's to say this won't happen again?
Don't think any one is calling for, or even considering, Jacko going (hopefully not anyway) at this stage. I'm certainly not and hope he is with us and leading us to better times for the long term.
But surely it is fair game to debate how we have gone from turning over and being at least equal to the best and worst in the league whilst he was caretaker to our complete lack of consistency and some appalling results and performances that have frequently occurred since he got the perm gig.
Can there not be a little room for nuance on CL, rather than an all in/ all out or pro/ against binary camp.
Criticising elements of Sandgaard's ownership and antics to date doesn't mean (in most cases) we want him gone or want ESI back and similarly questioning what is not connecting on the football side pre and post Jacksons permanent role doesn't mean we want him gone or are laying the blame at his door.
Something is clearly wrong in the chemistry of the football club on the playing side whether that be the players, the recruitment, the manager or elements of all of it and it's going to get debated as long as we turn out shite like last night and in in the majority of games we've appeared in this season across all competitions.
Everything is not shit or destined for doom but at the same time everything is not brilliant or cause to be optimistic so long as we all think positively and stop pointing out the shite.
Season is over in January unless we sign a new squad in next 5 days and it is cause for concern in that hopefully work will start to address the multitude of problems that appear on the football side of things before the end of the summer window and end this repetitive loop/ cycle of mediocrity and failure that we've had for past few years.
I definitely do not want to get rid of Jacko: I still think he can come good and he can grow and learn in the job.
However, I think the idea that we have should not, in their ability, be far higher in the league is just not right. Look at the squads that the likes of Burton, Cambridge, or even Plymouth or Oxford have - their own managers would want a huge number of our players over theirs.
I think we have generally bought pretty well and the problem is bringing those into a working team and system. It is telling that Kirk cannot get into our team but might be getting a move to the division above.
I definitely do not want to get rid of Jacko: I still think he can come good and he can grow and learn in the job.
However, I think the idea that we have should not, in their ability, be far higher in the league is just not right. Look at the squads that the likes of Burton, Cambridge, or even Plymouth or Oxford have - their own managers would want a huge number of our players over theirs.
I think we have generally bought pretty well and the problem is bringing those into a working team and system. It is telling that Kirk cannot get into our team but might be getting a move to the division above.
Indeed. Though sometimes, just like managers, players do not work out at certain clubs.
However that being said, at the moment it feels like we essentially have the same recruitment staff, essentially have the same coaching staff, and are essentially churning out the same sort of performances where other teams just look better than us.
Echo others' thoughts that we are absolutely miles way from where we need to be for promotion. We're in this league for years to come unless we get some sort of miracle.
We now actually look worse than when Roland was in charge. How is that possible?!
Because after him we had ESI 1 and 2. The damage on the squad is still showing and may take another summer window to address.
I like most am not enjoying where we are but I do see light at the end of the tunnel.
I think recruitment in the summer was not great either but hopeful TS has learnt from this and made changes.
But why does it need to take so many windows to sort out the ESI damage? Last season we just missed the playoffs, which is a an excellent base for a promotion campaign, but we screwed up last summer, which has nothing to do with ESI.
Wigan's squad were decimated by Administration as they lost player after player, they finished 5th bottom last season, having scraped survival. In ONE WINDOW they bought a team and are now top of the table under a rookie manager who used to be assistant at the club...
Fully agree the summer was poor on the recruitment front and TS needs to look at that and fix it going forward.
With regards to Wigan you have said it yourself they lost player after player so had a blank canvas similar to us with Powell in 2011 but difference being we was not in admin. We panicked to some degree after ESI and TS coming in late close to the window and felt like we just grabbed what we could a are stuck with players like Gunter and Watson on big wages.
I thought we would be more ruthless in the summer in letting players go like Pearce and Matthews but I think the Adkins run at the end papered over some of the cracks and gave the impression we was better than we are and did not need a re build.
Fingers crossed this summer is different and we recruit players to suit how JJ wants to play.
Echo others' thoughts that we are absolutely miles way from where we need to be for promotion. We're in this league for years to come unless we get some sort of miracle.
Other clubs have shown it doesn’t necessarily take years to build a promotion squad, as we have ourselves in the past. Building a squad over time never really happens because most good players will eventually be signed by a Prem or Champ team if their club isn’t progressing.
Its definitely a weird one. I still think Jackson is a hungry, enthusiastic young manager and deserves a proper shot at the job. When he was caretaker, he managed to install belief and a reason for the players to put in good performances.
Then he got it and now you're looking for the next motivation, the next seasonal target. Easier said than done when you got far too many players on the downward curve in their career and players getting injured too often.
I agree he needs to learn to adapt and change tactics/formations better, but he's still learning and perhaps he thinks he's stuck with too many players that don't have the ability or footballing brain to adapt quickly.
This season is write off and i'm not gonna judge JJ using these shirkers wearing the shirt this season.
TS really needs to back his man this summer and then we see if Jackson was the correct decision.
It all kind of went wrong after 'that' speech.
We've won here and we'll go to X and win and y and win and z and win....
I guess its nice for fans to see into the dressing room discussions, but I'm a firm believer that what happens in there, stays in there. The evidence for us is what happens on the pitch. I think Jackson definitely said the right thing, I just don't think our opposition should have seen it!
More recently, I thought we were outstanding in the Norwich fixture and made a PL side look very poor for most of the match, so I can't totally buy into the 'players are rubbish', as the sole reason for the poor performances. They looked pretty good only 17 days ago, so what happened? Do they not care so much when playing a low profile team up north on a freezing Tuesday night?
Brownie on Charlton TV during the Crewe game made a good point that we shouldn't get too excited by the Norwich game, as they fielded a disjointed side with lots of changes. Thus while we played well, to an extent they made us look good
Anybody getting excited by the Norwich game does not understand football, The FA Cup throws up all sorts of anomalies due to players being rested, played out of position or making their debut.
As Brownie said, Norwich made us look good on the day, not ourselves.
Ah so it only happens in the FA Cup... Not in this competition.
We now actually look worse than when Roland was in charge. How is that possible?!
Because after him we had ESI 1 and 2. The damage on the squad is still showing and may take another summer window to address.
I like most am not enjoying where we are but I do see light at the end of the tunnel.
I think recruitment in the summer was not great either but hopeful TS has learnt from this and made changes.
But why does it need to take so many windows to sort out the ESI damage? Last season we just missed the playoffs, which is a an excellent base for a promotion campaign, but we screwed up last summer, which has nothing to do with ESI.
Wigan's squad were decimated by Administration as they lost player after player, they finished 5th bottom last season, having scraped survival. In ONE WINDOW they bought a team and are now top of the table under a rookie manager who used to be assistant at the club...
What we ate currently seeing from this group of players is exactly the same way they were playing under Adkins, pass it across the back then eventually hit an aimless ball forward that either goes straight out of play or the defenders deal with it easily. Adkins often looked bemused by it and now so does JJ. I sat behind the dugout on Saturday and he wasnt happy ! It is obvious this manager and the previous manager is trying to get them to play but what can they do if the team keep reverting back to the same old bollox ?
Comments
We were in a much better position than Wigan at the end of last season, we aren't now. We probably spent about as much as them as well.
4 transfer windows, and let's be honest a lot of money, have made us worse. That's some achievement.
You're not going to get very far if you never adapt your formation and ideas when getting outplayed or losing games.
Take last night for example. It was plainly obvious that Watson was having a mare, so ok maybe don't change it at half time when winning but 10-15 minutes into the 2nd half we were still being overrun was surely time? Why was Watson not subbed? Why when being over run did we not change things and match up with them?
As Brownie said, Norwich made us look good on the day, not ourselves.
First managerial job, good early start then form tapered off, flirted with relegation.
Close season, given a budget, signed his own players and walked League One.
This.
We didn't replace: Aneke and Shinnie's role and failed to improve on the weaker areas RB, CB and Schwartz' role, our experienced players became 1 year older.
Millar was replaced with Kirk, on paper a fair signing.
Essentially, all we did was add a couple of wingers in Leko and CBT as options.
The peoples cup!
But Wigan we’re in a worse state than us they hardly had a player left, just survived relegation & admin.
Clearly they have done an amazing job so kudos to them and it’s unfair to expect the same level of success but surely we should at least be competing or seeing shoots of recovery… instead we are going backwards alarmingly quickly.
And then when he goes through a little spell of bad results, get rid of him and another manager in.
You can't just use the ESI excuse window after window after window.
We've had enough time to turn things around, we have gotten worse instead.
I was very pro Jacko when he was in the caretaker role, and still think and hope he will come good given the time, but we have just gone out to Hartlepool ffs Jacko, where's the frustration and emotion that gives us hope that it will be sorted.
On to Portsmouth Monday we go, and we can only hope that he has seriously read the riot act to each of them or we could get a repeat performance at Fratton..
Not that you have to match them in terms of wages and fees but you have to work around it.
I think TS was naive to not think about the other clubs and possibly the strength of the league this year. My worry is that what's to say this won't happen again?
But surely it is fair game to debate how we have gone from turning over and being at least equal to the best and worst in the league whilst he was caretaker to our complete lack of consistency and some appalling results and performances that have frequently occurred since he got the perm gig.
Can there not be a little room for nuance on CL, rather than an all in/ all out or pro/ against binary camp.
Criticising elements of Sandgaard's ownership and antics to date doesn't mean (in most cases) we want him gone or want ESI back and similarly questioning what is not connecting on the football side pre and post Jacksons permanent role doesn't mean we want him gone or are laying the blame at his door.
Something is clearly wrong in the chemistry of the football club on the playing side whether that be the players, the recruitment, the manager or elements of all of it and it's going to get debated as long as we turn out shite like last night and in in the majority of games we've appeared in this season across all competitions.
Everything is not shit or destined for doom but at the same time everything is not brilliant or cause to be optimistic so long as we all think positively and stop pointing out the shite.
Season is over in January unless we sign a new squad in next 5 days and it is cause for concern in that hopefully work will start to address the multitude of problems that appear on the football side of things before the end of the summer window and end this repetitive loop/ cycle of mediocrity and failure that we've had for past few years.
However that being said, at the moment it feels like we essentially have the same recruitment staff, essentially have the same coaching staff, and are essentially churning out the same sort of performances where other teams just look better than us.
I thought we would be more ruthless in the summer in letting players go like Pearce and Matthews but I think the Adkins run at the end papered over some of the cracks and gave the impression we was better than we are and did not need a re build.
@roseandcrown 0