I’d give JJ the nod next season but would demand nothing less than top six at Christmas. My gut feeling is that something is wrong with our recruitment process. Every season now we’re slow out of the blocks and end up scratching around with our third or fourth choices the week before the window closes. Next season is huge for this club. We simply must climb out of this league. We’re rapidly becoming an established third tier club and that simply isn’t good enough. Chris Powell showed that getting the players you want in early pays enormous dividends . He did though have the advantage of Charlton being one of the most attractive clubs in league one for players. Every season we fuck up, we lose some of that shine.
It best be top six by Christmas as Tommy is on the record this week saying the aim is top two next season going up via automatic promotion.
Well I’m suggesting that it’s a bit daft demanding top two. I think most of us would expect top six for a club like Charlton in the third division.
I expect top two. Too many fans accept mediocrity.
I agree. And because of that, it’s why I’ve been banging the drum re: a very extensive overhaul. Given where we’ll finish this season and the fact we were ‘2 or 3 players off’ getting in the playoffs - think how many we are getting in the play offs next season, let alone the top two
Currently we're 2 or 3 players off having a good enough defence, never mind the rest of the team.
Blaming JJ and saying the players are good enough is just wrong in my opinion. There's only about 6 or 7 of our squad that are good enough for a promotion push. And as we are normally missing 2 or 3 of them with injuries JJ can only do his best with a woeful bunch of players. Has JJ made mistakes. Yes but he is still learning on the job. Give him a chance to rebuild in the summer and judge him next Christmas.
Completely agree with what you've said but the fact remains we will do nothing with this formation until two good quality pacy wing backs are signed. The entire formation depends on these 2 critical positions within the team. Get these two positions filled as an absolute priority early in the summer and the entire dynamics of the team will change. Without them we'll go nowhere.
Add 2 good wing backs to the likes of Lavelle, Famewo, Dobson, Fraser, JFC, Stockley, Aneke and you've got a pretty solid team for this level. If the team still doesn't perform then Jackson will have no excuses and obviously he'll be sacked.
Question for those who watch the youth teams U23s, U18s etc @Swisdom@Scoham and others, do these teams play the same 352 that the senior team do?
They seem to be doing well, getting good results (apart from the last week), so this alone should prove that with the right players the formation can work. Any youngsters there (ideally the wing backs) who could potentially step up?
If we somehow get relegated to league two....it's hard to imagine celebrating a promotion to league one! I think I'd probably just have a couple of beers, go to bed at 9pm a think "it's a bit shit supporting Charlton"
If we somehow get relegated to league two....it's hard to imagine celebrating a promotion to league one! I think I'd probably just have a couple of beers, go to bed at 9pm a think "it's a bit shit supporting Charlton"
"Relegation won't be so bad, we'll win a lot more games, get to visit new grounds and we'll win the league."
17th Feb 2023. Charlton 0 Barrow 1. The Addicks drop to 13th in league 2 after Inniss and Aneke are both stretchered off.
If we somehow get relegated to league two....it's hard to imagine celebrating a promotion to league one! I think I'd probably just have a couple of beers, go to bed at 9pm a think "it's a bit shit supporting Charlton"
"Relegation won't be so bad, we'll win a lot more games, get to visit new grounds and we'll win the league."
17th Feb 2023. Charlton 0 Barrow 1. The Addicks drop to 13th in league 2 after Inniss and Aneke are both stretchered off.
If you have to have the perfect players for success is it really you creating that success?
If the quality just isn’t there then good tactics, man management and motivation can only take you so far.
Where those leave end up is always a good indicator, Oshilaja going to Burton for example.
A good example, rightly regarded as one of our worst players last season. Burton are above us in the league.
Above us but shows he wasn’t the answer for a club aiming to improve on 7th.
He wasn't the answer, obviously, and no one would claim he was. But a lot of our dross seems to fail upwards which indicates to me that there is something more fundamentally wrong.
I am happy to accept that it's, in the main, the balance and what we haven't got (pace, power, goals, leadership etc etc) but I really don't buy the fact that the players are just shit. They aren't, the have shown they aren't.
Bar Watson and Souare I would bet a lot of money that if they wanted to everyone single one of our squad could get a contract at another league 1 club.
They don't play like it very often do they? There is either something so fundamentally wrong with the coaching/managing/communication or its something else.
If you have to have the perfect players for success is it really you creating that success?
If the quality just isn’t there then good tactics, man management and motivation can only take you so far.
Where those leave end up is always a good indicator, Oshilaja going to Burton for example.
A good example, rightly regarded as one of our worst players last season. Burton are above us in the league.
Above us but shows he wasn’t the answer for a club aiming to improve on 7th.
He wasn't the answer, obviously, and no one would claim he was. But a lot of our dross seems to fail upwards which indicates to me that there is something more fundamentally wrong.
I am happy to accept that it's, in the main, the balance and what we haven't got (pace, power, goals, leadership etc etc) but I really don't buy the fact that the players are just shit. They aren't, the have shown they aren't.
Bar Watson and Souare I would bet a lot of money that if they wanted to everyone single one of our squad could get a contract at another league 1 club.
They don't play like it very often do they? There is either something so fundamentally wrong with the coaching/managing/communication or its something else.
The comparison isn’t with where we are now, but where we want to be. Most of the out of contract players that move on aren’t going to be regulars for a top 6 side, never mind top 2.
It was no surprise that Oshilaja ended up at a mid table L1 side - letting him go was the right decision, where we finish this season doesn’t change that. The point is they’re mostly average L1 players, I agree the majority will find another club at this level.
Sides like that don’t consistently get results, it’s why they end up finishing mid table. Look at Bowyer’s side - Taylor, Cullen, Bielik and Aribo lifted the team, it meant we could get promoted with the likes of Reeves, Marshall, Parker etc in the squad. Swapping them for Gilbey, DJ and Washington on paper wouldn’t have made a difference, we’d have still got promoted. The difference is this team is missing those top players. That’s not to say recruitment is the only issue, but better tactics, man management, coaching etc wouldn’t be enough to turn this squad into a promotion winning one.
If you have to have the perfect players for success is it really you creating that success?
If the quality just isn’t there then good tactics, man management and motivation can only take you so far.
Where those leave end up is always a good indicator, Oshilaja going to Burton for example.
A good example, rightly regarded as one of our worst players last season. Burton are above us in the league.
Above us but shows he wasn’t the answer for a club aiming to improve on 7th.
He wasn't the answer, obviously, and no one would claim he was. But a lot of our dross seems to fail upwards which indicates to me that there is something more fundamentally wrong.
I am happy to accept that it's, in the main, the balance and what we haven't got (pace, power, goals, leadership etc etc) but I really don't buy the fact that the players are just shit. They aren't, the have shown they aren't.
Bar Watson and Souare I would bet a lot of money that if they wanted to everyone single one of our squad could get a contract at another league 1 club.
They don't play like it very often do they? There is either something so fundamentally wrong with the coaching/managing/communication or its something else.
The comparison isn’t with where we are now, but where we want to be. Most of the out of contract players that move on aren’t going to be regulars for a top 6 side, never mind top 2.
It was no surprise that Oshilaja ended up at a mid table L1 side - letting him go was the right decision, where we finish this season doesn’t change that. The point is they’re mostly average L1 players, I agree the majority will find another club at this level.
Sides like that don’t consistently get results, it’s why they end up finishing mid table. Look at Bowyer’s side - Taylor, Cullen, Bielik and Aribo lifted the team, it meant we could get promoted with the likes of Reeves, Marshall, Parker etc in the squad. Swapping them for Gilbey, DJ and Washington on paper wouldn’t have made a difference, we’d have still got promoted. The difference is this team is missing those top players. That’s not to say recruitment is the only issue, but better tactics, man management, coaching etc wouldn’t be enough to turn this squad into a promotion winning one.
The comparison, for me is where are now, compared to where we were at the end of last season and how much is to do.
Last season, imo, was very comparable to 17/18 where we were a bit of quality short. If we had kept what we had and added 3 or 4 1st choice quality players we would have been fine. In my opinion we added 1.
We also lost Millar, Maatsen, Aneke, JFC and Amos and didn't replace them either at all or we'll enough (you can argue Amos but it doesn't change the point).
That's the reason we aren't getting promoted.
All that said this doesn't look like a team that's 3 or 4 short, which is what it should be on paper. We still aren't safe and it's only Morcambe, Wimbledon and Fleetwood's awful runs that are stopping us getting dragged in. That's worse, a lot worse, than where we should be.
That's not Jackson the managers fault. Or rather replacing Jackson as manager won't change that. It's something deeper.
Setting up to grind it out in some games without forwards, rather than play an over exposed system without the right players, might have seen us safer than 8 points from relegation.
That's an area JJ could have and still really needs to focus on. Not the young coach who doesn't want to change his manual.
If you have to have the perfect players for success is it really you creating that success?
If the quality just isn’t there then good tactics, man management and motivation can only take you so far.
Where those leave end up is always a good indicator, Oshilaja going to Burton for example.
A good example, rightly regarded as one of our worst players last season. Burton are above us in the league.
Above us but shows he wasn’t the answer for a club aiming to improve on 7th.
He wasn't the answer, obviously, and no one would claim he was. But a lot of our dross seems to fail upwards which indicates to me that there is something more fundamentally wrong.
I am happy to accept that it's, in the main, the balance and what we haven't got (pace, power, goals, leadership etc etc) but I really don't buy the fact that the players are just shit. They aren't, the have shown they aren't.
Bar Watson and Souare I would bet a lot of money that if they wanted to everyone single one of our squad could get a contract at another league 1 club.
They don't play like it very often do they? There is either something so fundamentally wrong with the coaching/managing/communication or its something else.
The comparison isn’t with where we are now, but where we want to be. Most of the out of contract players that move on aren’t going to be regulars for a top 6 side, never mind top 2.
It was no surprise that Oshilaja ended up at a mid table L1 side - letting him go was the right decision, where we finish this season doesn’t change that. The point is they’re mostly average L1 players, I agree the majority will find another club at this level.
Sides like that don’t consistently get results, it’s why they end up finishing mid table. Look at Bowyer’s side - Taylor, Cullen, Bielik and Aribo lifted the team, it meant we could get promoted with the likes of Reeves, Marshall, Parker etc in the squad. Swapping them for Gilbey, DJ and Washington on paper wouldn’t have made a difference, we’d have still got promoted. The difference is this team is missing those top players. That’s not to say recruitment is the only issue, but better tactics, man management, coaching etc wouldn’t be enough to turn this squad into a promotion winning one.
The comparison, for me is where are now, compared to where we were at the end of last season and how much is to do.
Last season, imo, was very comparable to 17/18 where we were a bit of quality short. If we had kept what we had and added 3 or 4 1st choice quality players we would have been fine. In my opinion we added 1.
We also lost Millar, Maatsen, Aneke, JFC and Amos and didn't replace them either at all or we'll enough (you can argue Amos but it doesn't change the point).
That's the reason we aren't getting promoted.
All that said this doesn't look like a team that's 3 or 4 short, which is what it should be on paper. We still aren't safe and it's only Morcambe, Wimbledon and Fleetwood's awful runs that are stopping us getting dragged in. That's worse, a lot worse, than where we should be.
That's not Jackson the managers fault. Or rather replacing Jackson as manager won't change that. It's something deeper.
We agree, our summer recruitment resulted in a weaker squad. If last season’s squad was one to finish 5-10th this is more like 8-12th. In terms of points we should be on 50 by now or at least closer to it.
Better recruitment is needed a lot more than a new manager is - that’s not to say Jackson is the answer, more that we won’t find out he isn’t this season.
I get the points others have said around Jackson getting the best out of what he has, but this squad is more comparable to 10/11 and 16/17 than 11/12 and 18/19. There isn’t a core of players who would compete in the Championship, every L1 promotion side has that. We don’t have to worry too much about Championship sides signing our best players in the summer, we have very few they’d be interested in.
There’s only one job at this time. Stay up. If we don’t I don’t think JJ will be here next season. If we do he should be allowed to create his new squad in the summer. Even then I think he’ll be on a short time frame to be in the forefront of the division next season before the club makes a decision about his longer term future.
I think it's pretty obvious that if we go down JJ won't be here next season, and rightly so.
Question for those who watch the youth teams U23s, U18s etc @Swisdom@Scoham and others, do these teams play the same 352 that the senior team do?
They seem to be doing well, getting good results (apart from the last week), so this alone should prove that with the right players the formation can work. Any youngsters there (ideally the wing backs) who could potentially step up?
I don’t keep up to date with the u23s and u18s beyond what’s posted on here and by the club. I remember seeing the u23s used 3-5-2 but not sure it’s their regular formation. In the youth cup at least the u18s played a form of 4-3-3, something they’ve done for years (or alternatively a 4-4-2 diamond).
Interesting reading this thread page 1 to 30. Apparently he was the right man for the job because he is proper Charlton and that’s the only way we can be successful. Whatever that means - I think that’s a quick and cheap way to narrow your candidate list unnecessarily.
Odds are, the best manager available has no previous affiliation with Charlton.
I was never convinced Jackson was the man but he won so many games in a row as caretaker that he made it impossible not to give him the contract.
Same is now true in reverse. I’m absolutely not convinced that we get rid of Jackson and our problems are solved. But we are losing too many games in a row and you have to say that his future hangs in the balance.
Interesting reading this thread page 1 to 30. Apparently he was the right man for the job because he is proper Charlton and that’s the only way we can be successful. Whatever that means - I think that’s a quick and cheap way to narrow your candidate list unnecessarily.
Odds are, the best manager available has no previous affiliation with Charlton.
I was never convinced Jackson was the man but he won so many games in a row as caretaker that he made it impossible not to give him the contract.
Same is now true in reverse. I’m absolutely not convinced that we get rid of Jackson and our problems are solved. But we are losing too many games in a row and you have to say that his future hangs in the balance.
Pretty much how I would write this post. He should never have got to this position. Caretaker to the end of the season should have been the best scenario.
The worry is 6 defeats in 7 (granted some of that was with no forward line) and the types of performances we’ve been showing is that if the team lose on Tuesday, they’re in the ‘You’re not fit to wear the shirt’ territory and when teams get like that imo is because they’ve given up which usually means they’ve lost interest in playing for the manager
Not saying this is the case with Jackson, but today was like a carbon copy of the dying days of Adkins, which is not a good signing
Comments
Add 2 good wing backs to the likes of Lavelle, Famewo, Dobson, Fraser, JFC, Stockley, Aneke and you've got a pretty solid team for this level. If the team still doesn't perform then Jackson will have no excuses and obviously he'll be sacked.
They seem to be doing well, getting good results (apart from the last week), so this alone should prove that with the right players the formation can work. Any youngsters there (ideally the wing backs) who could potentially step up?
I think I'd probably just have a couple of beers, go to bed at 9pm a think "it's a bit shit supporting Charlton"
17th Feb 2023. Charlton 0 Barrow 1.
The Addicks drop to 13th in league 2 after Inniss and Aneke are both stretchered off.
I hope Charlton invest in a new written slogan for the players... Could be put either the directors box or the tunnel.
"If you don't want to be here, f*ck off"
I am happy to accept that it's, in the main, the balance and what we haven't got (pace, power, goals, leadership etc etc) but I really don't buy the fact that the players are just shit. They aren't, the have shown they aren't.
Bar Watson and Souare I would bet a lot of money that if they wanted to everyone single one of our squad could get a contract at another league 1 club.
They don't play like it very often do they? There is either something so fundamentally wrong with the coaching/managing/communication or its something else.
It was no surprise that Oshilaja ended up at a mid table L1 side - letting him go was the right decision, where we finish this season doesn’t change that. The point is they’re mostly average L1 players, I agree the majority will find another club at this level.
Sides like that don’t consistently get results, it’s why they end up finishing mid table. Look at Bowyer’s side - Taylor, Cullen, Bielik and Aribo lifted the team, it meant we could get promoted with the likes of Reeves, Marshall, Parker etc in the squad. Swapping them for Gilbey, DJ and Washington on paper wouldn’t have made a difference, we’d have still got promoted. The difference is this team is missing those top players. That’s not to say recruitment is the only issue, but better tactics, man management, coaching etc wouldn’t be enough to turn this squad into a promotion winning one.
Last season, imo, was very comparable to 17/18 where we were a bit of quality short. If we had kept what we had and added 3 or 4 1st choice quality players we would have been fine. In my opinion we added 1.
We also lost Millar, Maatsen, Aneke, JFC and Amos and didn't replace them either at all or we'll enough (you can argue Amos but it doesn't change the point).
That's the reason we aren't getting promoted.
All that said this doesn't look like a team that's 3 or 4 short, which is what it should be on paper. We still aren't safe and it's only Morcambe, Wimbledon and Fleetwood's awful runs that are stopping us getting dragged in. That's worse, a lot worse, than where we should be.
That's not Jackson the managers fault. Or rather replacing Jackson as manager won't change that. It's something deeper.
That's an area JJ could have and still really needs to focus on. Not the young coach who doesn't want to change his manual.
Better recruitment is needed a lot more than a new manager is - that’s not to say Jackson is the answer, more that we won’t find out he isn’t this season.
I get the points others have said around Jackson getting the best out of what he has, but this squad is more comparable to 10/11 and 16/17 than 11/12 and 18/19. There isn’t a core of players who would compete in the Championship, every L1 promotion side has that. We don’t have to worry too much about Championship sides signing our best players in the summer, we have very few they’d be interested in.
I was never convinced Jackson was the man but he won so many games in a row as caretaker that he made it impossible not to give him the contract.
Same is now true in reverse. I’m absolutely not convinced that we get rid of Jackson and our problems are solved. But we are losing too many games in a row and you have to say that his future hangs in the balance.
Nothing about a training ground overhaul, no new coaches. Only a formation change and a nice speech.
Need a top to bottom refit of this club.
Nice guy but he's not managerial material.
He also had experience with better managers and was able to see how a properly run club operates.
Jackson has had umm, us. And the basket case we've been the last 5 seasons.
Not saying this is the case with Jackson, but today was like a carbon copy of the dying days of Adkins, which is not a good signing
would currently put us on 48.5 points which is 13th
and a season ending total of 62