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Post-match Thread: Plymouth Argyle vs Charlton Athletic | Saturday 18th December 2021

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Comments

  • Really disappointed with this one. Another missed opportunity. I though it was worse than Morecambe and Shrewsbury away. We missed Conor and Akin but if our squad can't manage this then we can forget any kind of play off ambition. Just when you think we have cracked it, we turn in such an inept performance. I think the Wimbledon game will be called off and as much as I desperately want it to go ahead it might not be a bad thing. 
  • Exactly as I see it Scoham
  • edited December 2021
    Looked comfortable first half without really threatening. Desperately missed Washingtons runs behind the defence which meant we played in front of the back four which made it easy for them to defend and resulted in our midfield being static. Their goal gave them confidence and we never looked like getting back in it. As Scoham says there are a lot of players that don’t seem to suit Jackson’s preferred system and needs a clear out but can’t see that happening until the summer.
  • Scoham said:
    It’s simple for me, we need more players who play at that high intensity and have the ability to go with it. We have too many that can’t - Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Watson, Arter, Morgan and Kirk. Putting any of that group at wing back or central midfield makes us a slower team who can’t press, track back and make the right runs effectively enough.

    Then we have Inniss and CBT who contribute when fit but are never likely to consistently play 90 minutes. Davison has the energy but doesn’t make the runs Washington does and doesn’t have the touch and ability in the air to replace Stockley.

    That’s 10 players, it’s far too many. It means we can’t rotate, something you have to do in a 50+ game season. We can’t keep playing Purrington, Washington, Dobson, Lee and Gilbey for 90 minutes and expect them to keep up that intensity we need, we have to be able to rotate and sub them off. Jackson doesn’t bring on Watson and Morgan because of their limitations. He’s only playing Souare because he’s forced to.

    Realistically we’re unlikely to replace more than 3/4 in January, and that’s at the very most. I expect JFC in for Schwartz, Arter to be sent back to Forest with a signing coming in. Can also see looking for u21 permanents and loans as they aren’t counted under the squad cap. Kirk gong on loan would free up another space. It’s difficult to see the others being offloaded.

    Playoffs aren’t impossible but the more we strengthen our options up front, left wing back and central midfield the better our chances.
    Totally agree with this. Jacko asks for high energy and a high press and the same eleven can’t do that for 46 games and the others aren’t capable - so the drop off is huge
  • I’d say it’s less about what JJ has asked for and more about what a promotion side needs. The intensity needs to be there even if it’s not a high press. Curbs, Powell and Bowyer’s teams all had it. Every relegation side lacked it.
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  • Scoham said:
    It’s simple for me, we need more players who play at that high intensity and have the ability to go with it. We have too many that can’t - Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Watson, Arter, Morgan and Kirk. Putting any of that group at wing back or central midfield makes us a slower team who can’t press, track back and make the right runs effectively enough.

    Then we have Inniss and CBT who contribute when fit but are never likely to consistently play 90 minutes. Davison has the energy but doesn’t make the runs Washington does and doesn’t have the touch and ability in the air to replace Stockley.

    That’s 10 players, it’s far too many. It means we can’t rotate, something you have to do in a 50+ game season. We can’t keep playing Purrington, Washington, Dobson, Lee and Gilbey for 90 minutes and expect them to keep up that intensity we need, we have to be able to rotate and sub them off. Jackson doesn’t bring on Watson and Morgan because of their limitations. He’s only playing Souare because he’s forced to.

    Realistically we’re unlikely to replace more than 3/4 in January, and that’s at the very most. I expect JFC in for Schwartz, Arter to be sent back to Forest with a signing coming in. Can also see looking for u21 permanents and loans as they aren’t counted under the squad cap. Kirk gong on loan would free up another space. It’s difficult to see the others being offloaded.

    Playoffs aren’t impossible but the more we strengthen our options up front, left wing back and central midfield the better our chances.
    Gunter and Matthews have both (successfully) played as the right CB, in the Sunderland, Doncaster and Rotherham games. Gunter only lost his place due to the Welsh callup

    You can play one of them in defence, freeing up Clare to play in midfield or at wingback.

    And as others have noted, Lee has gone off the boil a bit in recent games, and would Morgan be any worse? Pressing isn't really Lee's game either
  • On another note, it was good to see Innis back. Has such a presence and considering he is an out & out CB, the fact he was willing to make runs down the line to support DJ was brilliant.
  • It could be said that Jackson is not adapting his tactics to the available players but continuing with a game plan that only works when certain players are available. We used to criticise Robinson for always sticking to the same system I hope that we don't have to with Jackson.
  • edited December 2021
    How much for Garrick btw? Purrington is lovely and all but honestly we should rip Plymouth's arm off. Nobody has given DJ a harder game
  • Scoham said:
    It’s simple for me, we need more players who play at that high intensity and have the ability to go with it. We have too many that can’t - Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Watson, Arter, Morgan and Kirk. Putting any of that group at wing back or central midfield makes us a slower team who can’t press, track back and make the right runs effectively enough.

    Then we have Inniss and CBT who contribute when fit but are never likely to consistently play 90 minutes. Davison has the energy but doesn’t make the runs Washington does and doesn’t have the touch and ability in the air to replace Stockley.

    That’s 10 players, it’s far too many. It means we can’t rotate, something you have to do in a 50+ game season. We can’t keep playing Purrington, Washington, Dobson, Lee and Gilbey for 90 minutes and expect them to keep up that intensity we need, we have to be able to rotate and sub them off. Jackson doesn’t bring on Watson and Morgan because of their limitations. He’s only playing Souare because he’s forced to.

    Realistically we’re unlikely to replace more than 3/4 in January, and that’s at the very most. I expect JFC in for Schwartz, Arter to be sent back to Forest with a signing coming in. Can also see looking for u21 permanents and loans as they aren’t counted under the squad cap. Kirk gong on loan would free up another space. It’s difficult to see the others being offloaded.

    Playoffs aren’t impossible but the more we strengthen our options up front, left wing back and central midfield the better our chances.
    Gunter and Matthews have both (successfully) played as the right CB, in the Sunderland, Doncaster and Rotherham games. Gunter only lost his place due to the Welsh callup

    You can play one of them in defence, freeing up Clare to play in midfield or at wingback.

    And as others have noted, Lee has gone off the boil a bit in recent games, and would Morgan be any worse? Pressing isn't really Lee's game either
    Exactly my point. Gunter and Matthews can’t effectively play right wing back despite it appearing to be their more natural position. They don’t have the legs to get up and down the pitch like Purrington does. They don’t have the pace or skill to offer enough in attack either. Ideally replace both in the summer, keep one at most. We won’t move forward if we retain too many players who can “do a job”.

    We have too many players like that in the squad. It’s not so important at CB but Clare is the better option, he’s athletic, more comfortable on the ball and no weaker defensively. Agree on using Clare in midfield though, he’s the next best option after Lee, Gilbey and Dobson. Need to rotate them a bit to help keep them fully fit.

    Lee presses, he’s just not going do it consistently for 90 minutes game after game. Morgan would weaken us, he doesn’t offer the movement or quick feet which makes Lee effective in that role in which he’s the most attacking of the three CMs. Morgan’s not an attacking midfielder yet has other weaknesses that mean he’s ineffective in a deeper position.
  • Scoham said:
    It’s simple for me, we need more players who play at that high intensity and have the ability to go with it. We have too many that can’t - Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Watson, Arter, Morgan and Kirk. Putting any of that group at wing back or central midfield makes us a slower team who can’t press, track back and make the right runs effectively enough.

    Then we have Inniss and CBT who contribute when fit but are never likely to consistently play 90 minutes. Davison has the energy but doesn’t make the runs Washington does and doesn’t have the touch and ability in the air to replace Stockley.

    That’s 10 players, it’s far too many. It means we can’t rotate, something you have to do in a 50+ game season. We can’t keep playing Purrington, Washington, Dobson, Lee and Gilbey for 90 minutes and expect them to keep up that intensity we need, we have to be able to rotate and sub them off. Jackson doesn’t bring on Watson and Morgan because of their limitations. He’s only playing Souare because he’s forced to.

    Realistically we’re unlikely to replace more than 3/4 in January, and that’s at the very most. I expect JFC in for Schwartz, Arter to be sent back to Forest with a signing coming in. Can also see looking for u21 permanents and loans as they aren’t counted under the squad cap. Kirk gong on loan would free up another space. It’s difficult to see the others being offloaded.

    Playoffs aren’t impossible but the more we strengthen our options up front, left wing back and central midfield the better our chances.
    Now if only we had had a whole summer to rectify that problem....🤔😄
  • Scoham said:
    Scoham said:
    It’s simple for me, we need more players who play at that high intensity and have the ability to go with it. We have too many that can’t - Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Watson, Arter, Morgan and Kirk. Putting any of that group at wing back or central midfield makes us a slower team who can’t press, track back and make the right runs effectively enough.

    Then we have Inniss and CBT who contribute when fit but are never likely to consistently play 90 minutes. Davison has the energy but doesn’t make the runs Washington does and doesn’t have the touch and ability in the air to replace Stockley.

    That’s 10 players, it’s far too many. It means we can’t rotate, something you have to do in a 50+ game season. We can’t keep playing Purrington, Washington, Dobson, Lee and Gilbey for 90 minutes and expect them to keep up that intensity we need, we have to be able to rotate and sub them off. Jackson doesn’t bring on Watson and Morgan because of their limitations. He’s only playing Souare because he’s forced to.

    Realistically we’re unlikely to replace more than 3/4 in January, and that’s at the very most. I expect JFC in for Schwartz, Arter to be sent back to Forest with a signing coming in. Can also see looking for u21 permanents and loans as they aren’t counted under the squad cap. Kirk gong on loan would free up another space. It’s difficult to see the others being offloaded.

    Playoffs aren’t impossible but the more we strengthen our options up front, left wing back and central midfield the better our chances.
    Gunter and Matthews have both (successfully) played as the right CB, in the Sunderland, Doncaster and Rotherham games. Gunter only lost his place due to the Welsh callup

    You can play one of them in defence, freeing up Clare to play in midfield or at wingback.

    And as others have noted, Lee has gone off the boil a bit in recent games, and would Morgan be any worse? Pressing isn't really Lee's game either
    Exactly my point. Gunter and Matthews can’t effectively play right wing back despite it appearing to be their more natural position. They don’t have the legs to get up and down the pitch like Purrington does. They don’t have the pace or skill to offer enough in attack either. Ideally replace both in the summer, keep one at most. We won’t move forward if we retain too many players who can “do a job”.

    We have too many players like that in the squad. It’s not so important at CB but Clare is the better option, he’s athletic, more comfortable on the ball and no weaker defensively. Agree on using Clare in midfield though, he’s the next best option after Lee, Gilbey and Dobson. Need to rotate them a bit to help keep them fully fit.

    Lee presses, he’s just not going do it consistently for 90 minutes game after game. Morgan would weaken us, he doesn’t offer the movement or quick feet which makes Lee effective in that role in which he’s the most attacking of the three CMs. Morgan’s not an attacking midfielder yet has other weaknesses that mean he’s ineffective in a deeper position.
    I'm not sure Purrington has the legs to get up and down either, and indeed hasn't been asked to. He's not charging down the wing and getting crosses in, as it's the right wing back who's expected to be more creative

    Purrington is alternating between attacking and defending. When he goes forward, Famewo covers for him defensively.

  • Didn't stay up for that I'm pleased to say.

    On a positive note, the return of Innis is as massive as he is.

    It means Clare could be liberated to rotate with Lee and Gilbey who both look knackered.  

    Jackson is no fool. He will know the limitations he has with that squad.  
  • goal scorer Agard has been a very decent lower league striker/winger for a long time .. I was advocating signing him years ago when he was at Rotherham (him and Paddy Madden when at Scunthorpe lol) .. no one EVER takes my advice   :'(
  • We all know the squad isn't good enough, losing players and performing bad just before the transfer window opens, hopefully backs up Jackos transfer requests. 
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  • goal scorer Agard has been a very decent lower league striker/winger for a long time .. I was advocating signing him years ago when he was at Rotherham (him and Paddy Madden when at Scunthorpe lol) .. no one EVER takes my advice   :'(
    He has been on the rumours thread every single one of the last 12 windows. 
  • Scoham said:
    It’s simple for me, we need more players who play at that high intensity and have the ability to go with it. We have too many that can’t - Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Watson, Arter, Morgan and Kirk. Putting any of that group at wing back or central midfield makes us a slower team who can’t press, track back and make the right runs effectively enough.

    Then we have Inniss and CBT who contribute when fit but are never likely to consistently play 90 minutes. Davison has the energy but doesn’t make the runs Washington does and doesn’t have the touch and ability in the air to replace Stockley.

    That’s 10 players, it’s far too many. It means we can’t rotate, something you have to do in a 50+ game season. We can’t keep playing Purrington, Washington, Dobson, Lee and Gilbey for 90 minutes and expect them to keep up that intensity we need, we have to be able to rotate and sub them off. Jackson doesn’t bring on Watson and Morgan because of their limitations. He’s only playing Souare because he’s forced to.

    Realistically we’re unlikely to replace more than 3/4 in January, and that’s at the very most. I expect JFC in for Schwartz, Arter to be sent back to Forest with a signing coming in. Can also see looking for u21 permanents and loans as they aren’t counted under the squad cap. Kirk gong on loan would free up another space. It’s difficult to see the others being offloaded.

    Playoffs aren’t impossible but the more we strengthen our options up front, left wing back and central midfield the better our chances.
    My take on it as well, good post.

    And unlike others on here I am not expecting a huge January transfer window, TS has already said publicly that we have one of the largest squads with depth and ability in League One so I am not expecting the cash to be flashed, just a few adjustments here and there.
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    goal scorer Agard has been a very decent lower league striker/winger for a long time .. I was advocating signing him years ago when he was at Rotherham (him and Paddy Madden when at Scunthorpe lol) .. no one EVER takes my advice   :'(
    He has been on the rumours thread every single one of the last 12 windows. 

    We should probably take the hint.
  • masicat said:
    We have had a couple of decent performances since JJ took over. However, most of these players are bang average and will revert to type over time. Average players will always have a good game now and again, but basically not good enough. DJ is a player I haven’t liked since he joined. Good game, bad game, good game etc etc not good enough. JJ isn’t a genius , he can’t do anything with this mob. Will be a long cold winter in SE7. 
     That is such a morbid response after the weeks of 'Give him the job '. 

    One game into a confirmed reign and the wolves start to turn. 

    These players are 3rd division with a couple of Championship contenders.  They are here for a reason , whatever that is. 

    What worries me is the players we thought were rubbish in September,  Clsre and Dobson, are actually OK  but wonder players like Kirk and DJ don't fit according to many.

    Granted, Kirk is a one footed wonder on the left and that foot is his right foot .  How come this wasn't  noticed until someone kidded Thomas into shelling out 500,000.
    Can't see him spending money like yet again on advice of anyone at the club.
    I certainly didn’t think they were rubbish 
  • ross1 said:
    A massive thank you to all those travelling Addicks who made the journey today
    We go again on Boxing Day

    image
    Hope their Christmas picks up.  Poor bastards!
  • Ben18 said:
    Just like at Shrewsbury, we lose more than we gain by Purrington having to play as the third centre half. 

    I’d rather have Gunter in there if they don’t trust Souare to play in the back 3. 
    Gunter is not an answer. 
  • Scoham said:
    Scoham said:
    Scoham said:
    It’s simple for me, we need more players who play at that high intensity and have the ability to go with it. We have too many that can’t - Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Watson, Arter, Morgan and Kirk. Putting any of that group at wing back or central midfield makes us a slower team who can’t press, track back and make the right runs effectively enough.

    Then we have Inniss and CBT who contribute when fit but are never likely to consistently play 90 minutes. Davison has the energy but doesn’t make the runs Washington does and doesn’t have the touch and ability in the air to replace Stockley.

    That’s 10 players, it’s far too many. It means we can’t rotate, something you have to do in a 50+ game season. We can’t keep playing Purrington, Washington, Dobson, Lee and Gilbey for 90 minutes and expect them to keep up that intensity we need, we have to be able to rotate and sub them off. Jackson doesn’t bring on Watson and Morgan because of their limitations. He’s only playing Souare because he’s forced to.

    Realistically we’re unlikely to replace more than 3/4 in January, and that’s at the very most. I expect JFC in for Schwartz, Arter to be sent back to Forest with a signing coming in. Can also see looking for u21 permanents and loans as they aren’t counted under the squad cap. Kirk gong on loan would free up another space. It’s difficult to see the others being offloaded.

    Playoffs aren’t impossible but the more we strengthen our options up front, left wing back and central midfield the better our chances.
    Gunter and Matthews have both (successfully) played as the right CB, in the Sunderland, Doncaster and Rotherham games. Gunter only lost his place due to the Welsh callup

    You can play one of them in defence, freeing up Clare to play in midfield or at wingback.

    And as others have noted, Lee has gone off the boil a bit in recent games, and would Morgan be any worse? Pressing isn't really Lee's game either
    Exactly my point. Gunter and Matthews can’t effectively play right wing back despite it appearing to be their more natural position. They don’t have the legs to get up and down the pitch like Purrington does. They don’t have the pace or skill to offer enough in attack either. Ideally replace both in the summer, keep one at most. We won’t move forward if we retain too many players who can “do a job”.

    We have too many players like that in the squad. It’s not so important at CB but Clare is the better option, he’s athletic, more comfortable on the ball and no weaker defensively. Agree on using Clare in midfield though, he’s the next best option after Lee, Gilbey and Dobson. Need to rotate them a bit to help keep them fully fit.

    Lee presses, he’s just not going do it consistently for 90 minutes game after game. Morgan would weaken us, he doesn’t offer the movement or quick feet which makes Lee effective in that role in which he’s the most attacking of the three CMs. Morgan’s not an attacking midfielder yet has other weaknesses that mean he’s ineffective in a deeper position.
    I'm not sure Purrington has the legs to get up and down either, and indeed hasn't been asked to. He's not charging down the wing and getting crosses in, as it's the right wing back who's expected to be more creative

    Purrington is alternating between attacking and defending. When he goes forward, Famewo covers for him defensively.

    Purrington absolutely does, he’s one of our fittest players. He constantly gets in the box when we’re attacking and supports the high press, but still tracks back. He can’t though be in two places at once, so Famewo covering is what we need from the LCB.

    You only have to compare to Souare, Matthews and Gunter when they’ve played wing back to see the difference Purrington’s fitness and determination to get in those positions is a massive strength of his.

    Jackson talked about it here: https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/johnnie-jackson-ben-purrington-can-score-double-figures-for-charlton-this-season/

    Charlton caretaker manager Johnnie Jackson, asked about Purrington being in a rich vein of scoring form, said: “That’s not a fluke though.

    “He’s got a knack of it. He makes good runs. He’s got the energy and fitness to get in those positions constantly – and he can finish. He has missed a couple as well, so he should be on more goals than what he’s on!

    He makes good runs in and around the box yes, but what he's not doing (and not being ASKED to do) is make constant lung busting runs up and down the touchline, as Famewo covers in the left back when he's up the pitch. 

    Matthews and Gunter have never played right wing back under Jacko, as he likes to have a winger on that side putting in the crosses, whereas Purrington's role is more to attack the back post. 
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