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POST-MATCH THREAD: Wigan Athletic vs Charlton Athletic | Saturday 12th February - 3pm KO

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    Croydon said:
    Why have we still not seen the two youngsters we have on loan?
    Castillo came on when Kanu did - Played his second game after appearing against Hartlepool
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    Croydon said:
    Why have we still not seen the two youngsters we have on loan?
    Castillo came on yesterday alongside Kanu.
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    I've not seen any team really slaughter us this season. We are winning, drawing or losing by a single goal. I don't really know if JJ has got what is necessary to bring this club to where TS wants it but he has done pretty well in his first job so far but with TS's outlay and patience tried "pretty well" might not be enough. 

    I don't see the point in playing Burstow when the other forwards are fit now. I'd like to see us get enough points on the board for guaranteed safety and then work in Kanu and a few of the other kids and try out new formations.  We also have a spine of sorts now with Macgillivray, Inniss, Clare, Dobson, (Fraser?) Gilbey, chuks and Stockley. We are not far off having a good team. 
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    Same old story really, had a good spell of 10-20 minutes with 70+ minutes of dog dirt. Not too bad going forward,  pretty shocking at the back, struggled with balls over the top again despite having Inniss back. 

    Was always going to be tough, even more.so with the side we stuck out but this team, nah this squad, for the most part look like they don't know how to play with each other, we get a big old mix of football, some passing around, some balls in behind and a fair amount of hoofs forward but rarely look capable at any of it.

    We're a bit guilty of over blaming the ref for losing the last few seasons, yeah league one officials are shite, but both teams have to deal with them and it's not the officials fault Matthews can't get a foot in, Clare is in a bad position, Purrington can't deal with a bounce, Washington can't finish etc etc etc.

    Positives, Kanu made his debut. Lee looked alright but it's give me a contract time.

    We're just an average, mid table, league one outfit. And that's a big problem. 

    Can't agree that a player like Lee would be so cynical that he literally wouldn't try, except for a few games when his contract might be extended. A loss of form is a loss of form, and I doubt very much that he just couldn't be bothered.
    Agree with much of the rest though (apart from the Purrington 'bounce' bit. It was Famewo who couldn't deal with a bounce last week, and the corner yesterday didn't bounce).
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    Croydon said:
    Why have we still not seen the two youngsters we have on loan?
    Castillo came on when Kanu did - Played his second game after appearing against Hartlepool
    Cheers mate. Noticed Kanu coming on but must have missed the double sub
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    Scoham said:

    Sandgaard needs to back JJ properly in the summer, let him bring in his own players because i think theres a good young coach in there.


    I'm not calling for JJ to go, I just want him to prove he's worth another season in the remaining games by some decent performances. Aside from the new manager bounce, objectively speaking what have you seen that shows he's a good young coach since being made permanent?

    It's too much of a risk for Sandgaard to confirm him for next season at this point in time for me. I don't want to see Clare at RCB next season, and that's what we'd see. Yes he's a great ball carrier from defense, but he's often being caught out because he's not a natural defender.
    Is Clare often caught out? Until these last two games most were saying how impressive he’s been at RCB.

    Oxford used him at right back, we’ve given him a run at RCB where he had played consistently well. How much longer does he have to play in defence before we decide he’s a natural defender and cover in midfield? I get the feeling it’s more the player sees himself as a midfielder rather his managers and coaches.

    On Jackson, how can you be certain he’s not up to it after only 20 odd games? We’ll get nowhere if we continue changing managers. The recruitment wasn’t good enough in the summer and he’s a manager who plays a different system to Adkins.

    We’ve brought in managers who have won previous promotions, it doesn’t guarantee success. JJ, the coaches, fans and players all know this season is effectively over (even if they won’t and can’t say it) and many know they’ll be moved on in the summer. We’ve seen this situation before. We’ll plod along getting a few good results along the way and finish in mid table.

    I can see others arguments for changing the formation but squad needs a big rebuild - sticking with the system helps JJ work out who should stay, who needs to move on and the type of signings we’ll bring in. Changing it won’t see us stumble across a formation that suddenly turns us into promotion contenders.

    For me he’s shown enough to have the chance to build his own squad in the summer.
    Totally agree with this. JJ with his Charlton pedigree ticks the promotion boxes (Bailey, Curbs, Bows). Now we need to get JJ’s players in over the summer to be able to play how he wants the team to play. And we may need to pay a bit more to bring in young fit players who aren’t made of glass and who can play at a high level week in and week out. This will be down to TS - but for a number of years now, we’ve been scraping the bottom of the bargain barrel because we haven’t had owners who wished to commit sufficient funds.
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    JamesSeed said:
    Same old story really, had a good spell of 10-20 minutes with 70+ minutes of dog dirt. Not too bad going forward,  pretty shocking at the back, struggled with balls over the top again despite having Inniss back. 

    Was always going to be tough, even more.so with the side we stuck out but this team, nah this squad, for the most part look like they don't know how to play with each other, we get a big old mix of football, some passing around, some balls in behind and a fair amount of hoofs forward but rarely look capable at any of it.

    We're a bit guilty of over blaming the ref for losing the last few seasons, yeah league one officials are shite, but both teams have to deal with them and it's not the officials fault Matthews can't get a foot in, Clare is in a bad position, Purrington can't deal with a bounce, Washington can't finish etc etc etc.

    Positives, Kanu made his debut. Lee looked alright but it's give me a contract time.

    We're just an average, mid table, league one outfit. And that's a big problem. 

    Can't agree that a player like Lee would be so cynical that he literally wouldn't try, except for a few games when his contract might be extended. A loss of form is a loss of form, and I doubt very much that he just couldn't be bothered.
    Agree with much of the rest though (apart from the Purrington 'bounce' bit. It was Famewo who couldn't deal with a bounce last week, and the corner yesterday didn't bounce).

    Wouldn't try, no. Will try a lot harder with unemployment looming, yes. 

    Players are that cynical unfortunately. Example: Adam Matthews.

    The Purrington bounce was a generalised example of our shitness.
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    As bad as Leko was yesterday, there was no way Jacko was taking him off and having Burstow & Kanu upfront.
    Don’t see why not, Leko doesn’t come across as the consummate pro who’s going to be a big influence on the young lads on the pitch. 
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    Sandgaard needs to back JJ properly in the summer, let him bring in his own players because i think theres a good young coach in there.


    I'm not calling for JJ to go, I just want him to prove he's worth another season in the remaining games by some decent performances. Aside from the new manager bounce, objectively speaking what have you seen that shows he's a good young coach since being made permanent?

    It's too much of a risk for Sandgaard to confirm him for next season at this point in time for me. I don't want to see Clare at RCB next season, and that's what we'd see. Yes he's a great ball carrier from defense, but he's often being caught out because he's not a natural defender.
    Problem with this is that if we keep JJ until the end of the season and then let him go, any new manager will not have time to build the squad he wants. Sandgaard should either confirm JJ now or sack him and bring next season's manager in. The latter is how both our previous promotions happened under Powell and Bowyer.
    In fact, I cannot think of a season when we have had a new manager at the start of a season and we have been promoted. 
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    Yesterday was another example of poor recruitment in that we were so light up front we literally had no options. Signing Chucks expecting anything other than regular absences due to injury was pie in the sky, Cucks is Chucks and he is never going to be a regular starter. 
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    I've not seen any team really slaughter us this season. We are winning, drawing or losing by a single goal. I don't really know if JJ has got what is necessary to bring this club to where TS wants it but he has done pretty well in his first job so far but with TS's outlay and patience tried "pretty well" might not be enough. 

    I don't see the point in playing Burstow when the other forwards are fit now. I'd like to see us get enough points on the board for guaranteed safety and then work in Kanu and a few of the other kids and try out new formations.  We also have a spine of sorts now with Macgillivray, Inniss, Clare, Dobson, (Fraser?) Gilbey, chuks and Stockley. We are not far off having a good team. 
    But they're not fit though, which is where we are. Stockley will be weeks away, and by the sound of what Jacko was saying, Washington and Aneke might not be back next Saturday

    The only options to play up front are a raw kid (Kanu) and THREE loan players Burstow, Leko and Lee
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    edited February 2022
    It wasn't that we lost that posters are angry about its the way we lost. In fact we had lost before the teams made it onto the field. We simply didnt have the personnel to play 5 at the back, and even if we did Jacko left 2 of them on the bench. We even took the lead & still lost, for which for Wigan there is even a term for on here 😉. 

    I said it on another thread but Burstow is not a "wonder kid" & I doubt whether he'll even get more league goals than Purrington will this season. Hard on the lad but I doubt he'd be playing if the 3 main strikers were all fit. And now people are saying that Kanu is even better. I just hope that TS & JJ aren't on here as we may find that they then decide that he is our big hope for next season.......and if thats the case then be prepared for more of the same next season.

    Edit

    Just as I pressed save comment Rotherham went 2-0 up with Smith getting his 20th goal of the season. Ladapo got the first. To get promotion you need 2 strikers like them. I say it every season & nothing changes my mind on that. 
    Rotherham are a bad example for you, because they also have the best defence in the League!! - Pressure is off the likes of Ladapo and Smith, because it doesnt matter if they fail to take every chance that comes their way.

    Attack takes the pressure off the defence by scoring goals
    Defence takes the pressure off the attack by keeping them out.

    Its why its a team game...
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    AndyG said:
    Yesterday was another example of poor recruitment in that we were so light up front we literally had no options. Signing Chucks expecting anything other than regular absences due to injury was pie in the sky, Cucks is Chucks and he is never going to be a regular starter. 
    Another appearance of the “Chuks is always injured” canard - last season he appeared in 38 of the 46 league games. It’s not that he’s injured, it’s that he often can’t seem to play 90 minutes. 
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    With the team we fielded I didn't expect anything out of the game, so wasn't overly disappointed.
    If we had scored the 2nd goal, as we probably should, we would certainly have got something out of the game.
    However, the defending for their 1st goal is just criminal. How on earth has Matthews allowed the guy to skip past him. Dreadful and disheartening for the team as a whole to witness such a powder puff effort when they have worked hard to establish a lead.
    MacGillivary doesn't look like a promotion keeper. Has too many mistakes in him and doesn't look confident when the ball is hoisted in to the box.
    Of the squad from yesterday's game, there are only 6 or 7 who I'd want as part of next season's match day squad.
    I think we probably need 4 or 5 quality signings to enable us to sustain a decent promotion challenge next season.

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    edited February 2022
    If Chuks, Washington and Chuks are our three best strikers, we won't gain promotion next season. FACT. 

    With a promotion winning side often having their top 3 strikers scoring 15, 20, 25 goals plus a sizeable amount coming from midfield, there is no sign during their many games at the club, that any of these three have what it takes. Some will say about Chuks good season however that still came as sub appearances, which would still require a senior striker to fill the 60 minutes he's not on the pitch. 

    Stockley is not a lead striker.
    Chuks can't complete enough minutes to be lead striker. 
    Washington doesn't hit the target enough. 
    Out midfield do not create enough chances for any of the above to put away. 

    Anyone notice how Inniss was absolutely roasting Leko prior to the second goal. He was enraged. Was watching on TV and didnt see the build up play from Leko for the corner, so don't know why he was singled out, but would appear to be either giving the ball away or not tracking back to defend. Leko just wandered back up towards the halfway line as the corner was taken and game over. 
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    AndyG said:
    Yesterday was another example of poor recruitment in that we were so light up front we literally had no options. Signing Chucks expecting anything other than regular absences due to injury was pie in the sky, Cucks is Chucks and he is never going to be a regular starter. 
    Another appearance of the “Chuks is always injured” canard - last season he appeared in 38 of the 46 league games. It’s not that he’s injured, it’s that he often can’t seem to play 90 minutes. 
    Ok mate but the different reason leaves exactly the same outcome doesnt it ? The player signed to be one of our main strikers for the next 3.5 years cant play 90 mins 
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    It wasn't that we lost that posters are angry about its the way we lost. In fact we had lost before the teams made it onto the field. We simply didnt have the personnel to play 5 at the back, and even if we did Jacko left 2 of them on the bench. We even took the lead & still lost, for which for Wigan there is even a term for on here 😉. 

    I said it on another thread but Burstow is not a "wonder kid" & I doubt whether he'll even get more league goals than Purrington will this season. Hard on the lad but I doubt he'd be playing if the 3 main strikers were all fit. And now people are saying that Kanu is even better. I just hope that TS & JJ aren't on here as we may find that they then decide that he is our big hope for next season.......and if thats the case then be prepared for more of the same next season.

    Edit

    Just as I pressed save comment Rotherham went 2-0 up with Smith getting his 20th goal of the season. Ladapo got the first. To get promotion you need 2 strikers like them. I say it every season & nothing changes my mind on that. 
    Stockley was on course for around 20 goals and Washington currently has 9 all in a mid table team and we've added Aneke who whilst we know can't start every game will score goals at this level. Strikers aren't the problem in this squad.
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    colthe3rd said:
    Is this just my perception or are reactions to results on this site getting more extreme? Win or lose there seems to be more wild overreactions, I'm not sure if it's just the position we find ourselves in or just the general hyperbole driven by social media.

    This isn't to say I thought we played well yesterday, I thought at times in the first half we looked okay but I think people need to take a step back and view things rather than in black or white, brilliant or atrocious. We went away from home to second in the league with our strikers an 18 and 17 year old. We were missing one of our first choice centre backs and we made it a tight game and should have had a penalty in the second half.

    Yes I understand we hate this league and our position but we haven't missed out on playoffs because of these last 2 results, that happened much earlier in the season. It would just be nice to see some nuanced debate rather than overreactions trying to be edgy. The abusers on twitter will gladly welcome that.
    I know what you mean. Some posters seem to think with their emotions rather than with their brain - especially during the evening straight after the match.

    Perhaps the Post Match thread shouldn't be posted until Sunday afternoon when everyones calmed down and thinking a bit more rationally? :smile:


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    colthe3rd said:
    It wasn't that we lost that posters are angry about its the way we lost. In fact we had lost before the teams made it onto the field. We simply didnt have the personnel to play 5 at the back, and even if we did Jacko left 2 of them on the bench. We even took the lead & still lost, for which for Wigan there is even a term for on here 😉. 

    I said it on another thread but Burstow is not a "wonder kid" & I doubt whether he'll even get more league goals than Purrington will this season. Hard on the lad but I doubt he'd be playing if the 3 main strikers were all fit. And now people are saying that Kanu is even better. I just hope that TS & JJ aren't on here as we may find that they then decide that he is our big hope for next season.......and if thats the case then be prepared for more of the same next season.

    Edit

    Just as I pressed save comment Rotherham went 2-0 up with Smith getting his 20th goal of the season. Ladapo got the first. To get promotion you need 2 strikers like them. I say it every season & nothing changes my mind on that. 
    Stockley was on course for around 20 goals and Washington currently has 9 all in a mid table team and we've added Aneke who whilst we know can't start every game will score goals at this level. Strikers aren't the problem in this squad.
    Don’t agree with this, this set of strikers alone aren’t going to get us promoted, there is no dynamism, the most mobile ,Washington is not clinical enough over a season, his work rate isn’t in question but that don’t get him enough goals. Aneke has done nothing to convince me to change my opinion of him from his 1st spell with us, league one at best on a very good day, but that’s like finding rocking horse shit, stockley is ok, but needs help.
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    esseffect said:
    Who would manage Charlton eh?

    9 points from 15 and dropping said points away from home against in form Bolton and Wigan.

    Already calling him for the sack is a disgrace 
    Who’s calling for the sacking of JJ?, from the majority of what I’ve read people are just highlighting the players aren’t covering themselves in glory, and overall this season has been a complete shitter and a wasted opportunity when we had  the feel good factor of TS hopefully putting us on a stable footing. People are questioning JJ a bit which I don’t think is unreasonable as things haven’t been impressive of late, it’s not like we haven’t signed players since the summer,so the not been backed line to me sounds like a bit of an excuse as the players we’ve got had been targeted by our recruitment team. Signings don’t always work out as we all know. There does need to be a clear plan going forward though as it appears the profile of players seems a bit off, maybe have a chat with Curbs on that, he always emphasised how important it was and generally got it right, the amount of times he got players we didn’t necessarily think were great signings but went on to really work out.
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    edited February 2022
    as others have said a proper meh season - we have probably done enough to stay up owing to teams maybe being poorer than us given our next few games could potentially be squeaky bum time. 

    a lot of the current crop need to go need to have a powell esqe summer with a complete rebuild. 

    fully behind jacko, if adkins was still here i have no doubt that we would be league 2 bound 
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    If Chuks, Washington and Chuks are our three best strikers, we won't gain promotion next season. FACT. 

    With a promotion winning side often having their top 3 strikers scoring 15, 20, 25 goals plus a sizeable amount coming from midfield, there is no sign during their many games at the club, that any of these three have what it takes. Some will say about Chuks good season however that still came as sub appearances, which would still require a senior striker to fill the 60 minutes he's not on the pitch. 

    Stockley is not a lead striker.
    Chuks can't complete enough minutes to be lead striker. 
    Washington doesn't hit the target enough. 
    Out midfield do not create enough chances for any of the above to put away. 

    Anyone notice how Inniss was absolutely roasting Leko prior to the second goal. He was enraged. Was watching on TV and didnt see the build up play from Leko for the corner, so don't know why he was singled out, but would appear to be either giving the ball away or not tracking back to defend. Leko just wandered back up towards the halfway line as the corner was taken and game over. 
    Which is why we've bought Fraser. Our chances created will also surely increase if/when we buy 2 proper wing backs.
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