With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
Just some of the time?
What is your view on the dad staying at home and the mum going out to work?
Not the ideal set up ME14. You asked for my view
There are of course many factors to be considered in a case by case basis. You could add somewhere down the line that the father in question has a disability that makes staying at home essential and the mother is very well paid or perhaps has taken over the business etc Perhaps there is a choice of maintaining the aforesaid (not ideal) set up, or a broken home, where the child sees even less of both parent ~ totally for the child to be raised with both parents in the most functional way for the child to adapt and function and thrive and meet the many challenges modern adult life throws up.
Why is it not ideal for a man to stay at home and look after the children, instead of the woman? Apart from giving birth and breast feeding, what can a woman do that a man can't when bringing up their children?
I didn't suggest reading a hit piece on the author, I recommended reading the actual book! Two very different things.
So often in this age we do virtually no challenging of our own error laden default positions, refuse to read a text that may inform us in a variety of ways we may have been hitherto blind to and instead we hunt down any source anywhere that will reinforce our position and noone learns anything at all.
So why don't you challenge your own error laden default position.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
There is no discussion to be had. You are sexist. You have proven it again and again.
That's perfectly fine KB. Those that shut down conversation and effectively say "I WILL NOT compete/discuss/talk" have a name ~ they are called "toddlers". "Spoilt toddlers".
Now go to your room and come back when you are ready to move from baby food to solids!
Well at least you’re acknowledging me now. I don’t want to compete/discuss/talk with a sexist pig.
I want to remind you, again and again, that is what you are. In fact you’re proving that you’re an ignorant sexist pig.
And what’s great? Rebecca will continue to referee mens football matches, as will other women after her. And there’s feck all you can do about it. That makes me very happy.
I didn't suggest reading a hit piece on the author, I recommended reading the actual book! Two very different things.
So often in this age we do virtually no challenging of our own error laden default positions, refuse to read a text that may inform us in a variety of ways we may have been hitherto blind to and instead we hunt down any source anywhere that will reinforce our position and noone learns anything at all.
So why don't you challenge your own error laden default position.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
I always try to SELR..
Let me try that again.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
I didn't suggest reading a hit piece on the author, I recommended reading the actual book! Two very different things.
So often in this age we do virtually no challenging of our own error laden default positions, refuse to read a text that may inform us in a variety of ways we may have been hitherto blind to and instead we hunt down any source anywhere that will reinforce our position and noone learns anything at all.
So why don't you challenge your own error laden default position.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
I always try to SELR..
Let me try that again.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
I've referred to and answered this throughout this thread. The fact you wish to ignore all that is referred to and answered and instead just shout "racist" and "sexist" and "troll" at anyone or thing that doesn't appear agreeable to your wokery is really something I cannot address. I'd invite you to look again.
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
Just some of the time?
What is your view on the dad staying at home and the mum going out to work?
Not the ideal set up ME14. You asked for my view
There are of course many factors to be considered in a case by case basis. You could add somewhere down the line that the father in question has a disability that makes staying at home essential and the mother is very well paid or perhaps has taken over the business etc Perhaps there is a choice of maintaining the aforesaid (not ideal) set up, or a broken home, where the child sees even less of both parent ~ totally for the child to be raised with both parents in the most functional way for the child to adapt and function and thrive and meet the many challenges modern adult life throws up.
Why is it not ideal for a man to stay at home and look after the children, instead of the woman? Apart from giving birth and breast feeding, what can a woman do that a man can't when bringing up their children?
Wokery, what an utterly meaningless term used as a catch all for racists, homophobes, misogynists and especially trolls to try and worm out of having their views questioned.
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
Just some of the time?
What is your view on the dad staying at home and the mum going out to work?
Not the ideal set up ME14. You asked for my view
There are of course many factors to be considered in a case by case basis. You could add somewhere down the line that the father in question has a disability that makes staying at home essential and the mother is very well paid or perhaps has taken over the business etc Perhaps there is a choice of maintaining the aforesaid (not ideal) set up, or a broken home, where the child sees even less of both parent ~ totally for the child to be raised with both parents in the most functional way for the child to adapt and function and thrive and meet the many challenges modern adult life throws up.
Why is it not ideal for a man to stay at home and look after the children, instead of the woman? Apart from giving birth and breast feeding, what can a woman do that a man can't when bringing up their children?
This is once again what those of a reasonable approach to things call "progressive overreach". You pretend that "equality" and "diversity" (perfecly reasonable goals if actually intentioned) are the lynchpin of your leftist philosophy when actually there is something more behind it all. You are now saying the IDEAL in a family unit is for the father to stay at home every day and for the mother to be away from the family home all day every day.
It may be absolutely necessary in some cases yes (see earlier thread comment,) but it is clearly not the IDEAL.
To anyone reading who may feel offended by those nasty woke people…
We aren’t cancelling you, we are challenging you. Meanwhile religious zealots here in the States are having books banned from children’s school libraries that focus on topics that they don’t agree with.
There’s one article above but do look it up, it’s actually happening. And it won’t take long for sections of the British public to follow suit. Meanwhile, I’ll give you three attempts at trying to name a right wing mouthpiece that has actually been ‘cancelSELR_addicks said:
"I'm definitely not controlling and sexist but I would force women to stay in the kitchen and rear children for their entire lives".
When one cannot find a single quote to attack someone they ... Invent their own quote and idiotically attribute it to that person. Best leave you in fantasy land.
What role in society do you think that women should play a part in?
Are they allowed to interact with men in the workplace? Maybe perhaps even hold a similar role to a man in the same working environment?
SELR: I have mother, aunts, sisters, spouse, daughters, female colleagues and ... believe-it-or-not ... women I count as good friends. As unlikely as it may seem, they rather like my honest - hide nothing - approach. They know I am not 'performing to the gallery' and trying to virtue-signal my way through this short life we have. My terminology may appear (on a thread discussion among the rather woke-minded) to belong in the mid 19th Century but most people I know know the INTENT behind what I am saying. That is to say - they know I am not saying something either for effect or to hurt others. It might come across as clumsy or lacking the 'finesse' of a Guardian article (and thank God for that!) but there is no intended malice. To return to the original thread about a female referee. I applauded that this particular person has attained a high level of competence in her chosen field - refereeing. The umbrage that some have taken stems from where that refereeing should take place. Men's football or women's football. It's hardly Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech. And yet to the very distorted among us that is EXACTLY what my comment seems to represent. How utterly ridiculous.
The aforesaid women in my life all seem to play a variety of roles in society, yes. Motherhood being by far and away the most rewarding of these roles (they say). But as educated women they have professional lives also. They interact with men in the workplace. Of course.
I suspect there are many on these pages who think a family functions best when mum and dad are both out at work all day (presumably esp with the woman doing a quintessential male job of course!) and their children are left unparented, neglected and zombied out on computer games until those exhausted parents get home each evening. I don't. And I know a good number of men and women that do not subscribe to this particular configuration of family life.
It never fails to baffle me how the perceived 'victims' of all these woke discussions are always the least problematic persons to actually personally encounter in real life. Whether it be ethnic minorities, women, the same sex attracted, the disabled etc. The real problems are the (mostly) white, middle-class liberal/leftists that think they speak for the whole world when in fact they only speak for JUST other white, middle-class liberal/leftists.
And absolutely no one else.
I wish this woman referee - every happiness and success. And, if she has a husband and children - them too.
You quite clearly do not live in the real world.
I'm sure there are both men and women who would love to spend all day looking after their children, but the reality is that for most people, both parents need to work to earn enough money to bring up their children. Others choose to work as they enjoy it and lead more fulfilled lives by working. Everyone should do what is right for them and the view that the woman's place is in the home is outdated and abhorrent.
Your views on the role of women are archaic and have no place in the 21st century.
Yes, I would tend to agree with you ME14 - both parents DO '... need to work to earn enough money to bring up their children'. The point is, I believe that that NEED to be wrong. Wrong for those parents. Definitely wrong for their children and wrong for society.
I believe as a society we should not be making this sort of demand on parents. If you can point out how children, arguably with MORE complex needs than ever before, have less and less parent time, somehow helps society and builds up this nation to be stronger and makes families stay together and by extension - the community and the nation - I'd be really interested to hear about this. I see the polar opposite taking place. Everywhere.
Simply do not think that the family is should be at the centre of everything. Children need to go to school and be looked after in groups together while their parents are sometimes absent doing other things..
The traditional family unit as we know it is an artificial invention of the industrial age enabling efficiency in factories.
I couldn't differ more. I wonder how many, say, Indian heritage families you know, resident in UK? They seem to "get" family values and traditional families very well. What is completely artificial is the current configuration of the family as progressives see it. It doesn't work.
Well all the Asian women I know, seem to excel in medicine, law and accountancy. So not sure what your point is
And nearly every one, to a man, seems to have a faith. And strong family values.
You really do have a problem with women don't you.
No. Not at all BB. I DO have a problem with leftist blokes who think they speak for women though!
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
There is no discussion to be had. You are sexist. You have proven it again and again.
That's perfectly fine KB. Those that shut down conversation and effectively say "I WILL NOT compete/discuss/talk" have a name ~ they are called "toddlers". "Spoilt toddlers".
Now go to your room and come back when you are ready to move from baby food to solids!
Well at least you’re acknowledging me now. I don’t want to compete/discuss/talk with a sexist pig.
I want to remind you, again and again, that is what you are. In fact you’re proving that you’re an ignorant sexist pig.
And what’s great? Rebecca will continue to referee mens football matches, as will other women after her. And there’s feck all you can do about it. That makes me very happy.
To anyone reading who may feel offended by those nasty woke people…
We aren’t cancelling you, we are challenging you. Meanwhile religious zealots here in the States are having books banned from children’s school libraries that focus on topics that they don’t agree with.
There’s one article above but do look it up, it’s actually happening. And it won’t take long for sections of the British public to follow suit. Meanwhile, I’ll give you three attempts at trying to name a right wing mouthpiece that has actually been ‘cancelSELR_addicks said:
"I'm definitely not controlling and sexist but I would force women to stay in the kitchen and rear children for their entire lives".
When one cannot find a single quote to attack someone they ... Invent their own quote and idiotically attribute it to that person. Best leave you in fantasy land.
What role in society do you think that women should play a part in?
Are they allowed to interact with men in the workplace? Maybe perhaps even hold a similar role to a man in the same working environment?
SELR: I have mother, aunts, sisters, spouse, daughters, female colleagues and ... believe-it-or-not ... women I count as good friends. As unlikely as it may seem, they rather like my honest - hide nothing - approach. They know I am not 'performing to the gallery' and trying to virtue-signal my way through this short life we have. My terminology may appear (on a thread discussion among the rather woke-minded) to belong in the mid 19th Century but most people I know know the INTENT behind what I am saying. That is to say - they know I am not saying something either for effect or to hurt others. It might come across as clumsy or lacking the 'finesse' of a Guardian article (and thank God for that!) but there is no intended malice. To return to the original thread about a female referee. I applauded that this particular person has attained a high level of competence in her chosen field - refereeing. The umbrage that some have taken stems from where that refereeing should take place. Men's football or women's football. It's hardly Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech. And yet to the very distorted among us that is EXACTLY what my comment seems to represent. How utterly ridiculous.
The aforesaid women in my life all seem to play a variety of roles in society, yes. Motherhood being by far and away the most rewarding of these roles (they say). But as educated women they have professional lives also. They interact with men in the workplace. Of course.
I suspect there are many on these pages who think a family functions best when mum and dad are both out at work all day (presumably esp with the woman doing a quintessential male job of course!) and their children are left unparented, neglected and zombied out on computer games until those exhausted parents get home each evening. I don't. And I know a good number of men and women that do not subscribe to this particular configuration of family life.
It never fails to baffle me how the perceived 'victims' of all these woke discussions are always the least problematic persons to actually personally encounter in real life. Whether it be ethnic minorities, women, the same sex attracted, the disabled etc. The real problems are the (mostly) white, middle-class liberal/leftists that think they speak for the whole world when in fact they only speak for JUST other white, middle-class liberal/leftists.
And absolutely no one else.
I wish this woman referee - every happiness and success. And, if she has a husband and children - them too.
You quite clearly do not live in the real world.
I'm sure there are both men and women who would love to spend all day looking after their children, but the reality is that for most people, both parents need to work to earn enough money to bring up their children. Others choose to work as they enjoy it and lead more fulfilled lives by working. Everyone should do what is right for them and the view that the woman's place is in the home is outdated and abhorrent.
Your views on the role of women are archaic and have no place in the 21st century.
Yes, I would tend to agree with you ME14 - both parents DO '... need to work to earn enough money to bring up their children'. The point is, I believe that that NEED to be wrong. Wrong for those parents. Definitely wrong for their children and wrong for society.
I believe as a society we should not be making this sort of demand on parents. If you can point out how children, arguably with MORE complex needs than ever before, have less and less parent time, somehow helps society and builds up this nation to be stronger and makes families stay together and by extension - the community and the nation - I'd be really interested to hear about this. I see the polar opposite taking place. Everywhere.
Simply do not think that the family is should be at the centre of everything. Children need to go to school and be looked after in groups together while their parents are sometimes absent doing other things..
The traditional family unit as we know it is an artificial invention of the industrial age enabling efficiency in factories.
I couldn't differ more. I wonder how many, say, Indian heritage families you know, resident in UK? They seem to "get" family values and traditional families very well. What is completely artificial is the current configuration of the family as progressives see it. It doesn't work.
Well all the Asian women I know, seem to excel in medicine, law and accountancy. So not sure what your point is
And nearly every one, to a man, seems to have a faith. And strong family values.
You really do have a problem with women don't you.
No. Not at all BB. I DO have a problem with leftist blokes who think they speak for women though!
But sexist pig dinosaurs speaking for them is fine and dandy though eh?
And by the way I’m KBSLITTLESIS. My brother is KB and I’m his little sister. That’s why I’m calling you out again and again. Because I’m a woman and you DO NOT speak for me.
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
Just some of the time?
What is your view on the dad staying at home and the mum going out to work?
Not the ideal set up ME14. You asked for my view
There are of course many factors to be considered in a case by case basis. You could add somewhere down the line that the father in question has a disability that makes staying at home essential and the mother is very well paid or perhaps has taken over the business etc Perhaps there is a choice of maintaining the aforesaid (not ideal) set up, or a broken home, where the child sees even less of both parent ~ totally for the child to be raised with both parents in the most functional way for the child to adapt and function and thrive and meet the many challenges modern adult life throws up.
Why is it not ideal for a man to stay at home and look after the children, instead of the woman? Apart from giving birth and breast feeding, what can a woman do that a man can't when bringing up their children?
This is once again what those of a reasonable approach to things call "progressive overreach". You pretend that "equality" and "diversity" (perfecly reasonable goals if actually intentioned) are the lynchpin of your leftist philosophy when actually there is something more behind it all. You are now saying the IDEAL in a family unit is for the father to stay at home every day and for the mother to be away from the family home all day every day.
It may be absolutely necessary in some cases yes (see earlier thread comment,) but it is clearly not the IDEAL.
No, they're not. They're very clearly not saying anything like that but yet again you fail to actually address any arguments and instead wheel out the latest in a line of scarecrows.
But you know, silly leftist woke Brigade cancelling you...
To anyone reading who may feel offended by those nasty woke people…
We aren’t cancelling you, we are challenging you. Meanwhile religious zealots here in the States are having books banned from children’s school libraries that focus on topics that they don’t agree with.
There’s one article above but do look it up, it’s actually happening. And it won’t take long for sections of the British public to follow suit. Meanwhile, I’ll give you three attempts at trying to name a right wing mouthpiece that has actually been ‘cancelSELR_addicks said:
"I'm definitely not controlling and sexist but I would force women to stay in the kitchen and rear children for their entire lives".
When one cannot find a single quote to attack someone they ... Invent their own quote and idiotically attribute it to that person. Best leave you in fantasy land.
What role in society do you think that women should play a part in?
Are they allowed to interact with men in the workplace? Maybe perhaps even hold a similar role to a man in the same working environment?
SELR: I have mother, aunts, sisters, spouse, daughters, female colleagues and ... believe-it-or-not ... women I count as good friends. As unlikely as it may seem, they rather like my honest - hide nothing - approach. They know I am not 'performing to the gallery' and trying to virtue-signal my way through this short life we have. My terminology may appear (on a thread discussion among the rather woke-minded) to belong in the mid 19th Century but most people I know know the INTENT behind what I am saying. That is to say - they know I am not saying something either for effect or to hurt others. It might come across as clumsy or lacking the 'finesse' of a Guardian article (and thank God for that!) but there is no intended malice. To return to the original thread about a female referee. I applauded that this particular person has attained a high level of competence in her chosen field - refereeing. The umbrage that some have taken stems from where that refereeing should take place. Men's football or women's football. It's hardly Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech. And yet to the very distorted among us that is EXACTLY what my comment seems to represent. How utterly ridiculous.
The aforesaid women in my life all seem to play a variety of roles in society, yes. Motherhood being by far and away the most rewarding of these roles (they say). But as educated women they have professional lives also. They interact with men in the workplace. Of course.
I suspect there are many on these pages who think a family functions best when mum and dad are both out at work all day (presumably esp with the woman doing a quintessential male job of course!) and their children are left unparented, neglected and zombied out on computer games until those exhausted parents get home each evening. I don't. And I know a good number of men and women that do not subscribe to this particular configuration of family life.
It never fails to baffle me how the perceived 'victims' of all these woke discussions are always the least problematic persons to actually personally encounter in real life. Whether it be ethnic minorities, women, the same sex attracted, the disabled etc. The real problems are the (mostly) white, middle-class liberal/leftists that think they speak for the whole world when in fact they only speak for JUST other white, middle-class liberal/leftists.
And absolutely no one else.
I wish this woman referee - every happiness and success. And, if she has a husband and children - them too.
You quite clearly do not live in the real world.
I'm sure there are both men and women who would love to spend all day looking after their children, but the reality is that for most people, both parents need to work to earn enough money to bring up their children. Others choose to work as they enjoy it and lead more fulfilled lives by working. Everyone should do what is right for them and the view that the woman's place is in the home is outdated and abhorrent.
Your views on the role of women are archaic and have no place in the 21st century.
Yes, I would tend to agree with you ME14 - both parents DO '... need to work to earn enough money to bring up their children'. The point is, I believe that that NEED to be wrong. Wrong for those parents. Definitely wrong for their children and wrong for society.
I believe as a society we should not be making this sort of demand on parents. If you can point out how children, arguably with MORE complex needs than ever before, have less and less parent time, somehow helps society and builds up this nation to be stronger and makes families stay together and by extension - the community and the nation - I'd be really interested to hear about this. I see the polar opposite taking place. Everywhere.
Simply do not think that the family is should be at the centre of everything. Children need to go to school and be looked after in groups together while their parents are sometimes absent doing other things..
The traditional family unit as we know it is an artificial invention of the industrial age enabling efficiency in factories.
I couldn't differ more. I wonder how many, say, Indian heritage families you know, resident in UK? They seem to "get" family values and traditional families very well. What is completely artificial is the current configuration of the family as progressives see it. It doesn't work.
Well all the Asian women I know, seem to excel in medicine, law and accountancy. So not sure what your point is
And nearly every one, to a man, seems to have a faith. And strong family values.
You really do have a problem with women don't you.
No. Not at all BB. I DO have a problem with leftist blokes who think they speak for women though!
No leftyness here VoT, I'm from the treat everyone how you would like to be treated school of thought.
I didn't suggest reading a hit piece on the author, I recommended reading the actual book! Two very different things.
So often in this age we do virtually no challenging of our own error laden default positions, refuse to read a text that may inform us in a variety of ways we may have been hitherto blind to and instead we hunt down any source anywhere that will reinforce our position and noone learns anything at all.
So why don't you challenge your own error laden default position.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
I always try to SELR..
Let me try that again.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
I've referred to and answered this throughout this thread. The fact you wish to ignore all that is referred to and answered and instead just shout "racist" and "sexist" and "troll" at anyone or thing that doesn't appear agreeable to your wokery is really something I cannot address. I'd invite you to look again.
I've not shouted any of the terms 'racist', 'sexist' or 'troll' at you in my comments above.
Just asking you a simple question that yet again you're deflecting.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
VOT, whenever you post on this thread could you include the following image after the text please? Just to make it more official kinda thing yeah. cheers.
What adults are required to do with their children is parent them. Not mother them or father them. Mothering and fathering a child is the term more properly used to describe the reproductive process.
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
Just some of the time?
What is your view on the dad staying at home and the mum going out to work?
Not the ideal set up ME14. You asked for my view
There are of course many factors to be considered in a case by case basis. You could add somewhere down the line that the father in question has a disability that makes staying at home essential and the mother is very well paid or perhaps has taken over the business etc Perhaps there is a choice of maintaining the aforesaid (not ideal) set up, or a broken home, where the child sees even less of both parent ~ totally for the child to be raised with both parents in the most functional way for the child to adapt and function and thrive and meet the many challenges modern adult life throws up.
Why is it not ideal for a man to stay at home and look after the children, instead of the woman? Apart from giving birth and breast feeding, what can a woman do that a man can't when bringing up their children?
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
Just some of the time?
What is your view on the dad staying at home and the mum going out to work?
Not the ideal set up ME14. You asked for my view
There are of course many factors to be considered in a case by case basis. You could add somewhere down the line that the father in question has a disability that makes staying at home essential and the mother is very well paid or perhaps has taken over the business etc Perhaps there is a choice of maintaining the aforesaid (not ideal) set up, or a broken home, where the child sees even less of both parent ~ totally for the child to be raised with both parents in the most functional way for the child to adapt and function and thrive and meet the many challenges modern adult life throws up.
Why is it not ideal for a man to stay at home and look after the children, instead of the woman? Apart from giving birth and breast feeding, what can a woman do that a man can't when bringing up their children?
This is once again what those of a reasonable approach to things call "progressive overreach". You pretend that "equality" and "diversity" (perfecly reasonable goals if actually intentioned) are the lynchpin of your leftist philosophy when actually there is something more behind it all. You are now saying the IDEAL in a family unit is for the father to stay at home every day and for the mother to be away from the family home all day every day.
It may be absolutely necessary in some cases yes (see earlier thread comment,) but it is clearly not the IDEAL.
I did not say the ideal was for the father to stay at home and for the mother to stay away from the family home all day. I asked you why you think the woman should be the one to stay at home. You said that the woman can 'mother' and I asked you what that means. I believe everyone must do what is right for them and their circumstances. A man is just as capable of bringing up children as a woman.
For your information I am a woman and have voted Conservative all my life. Unlike you I am able to change my political views and will never vote Conservative again after the shambles of this Government.
I think Rebecca Welch should be free to referee whenever and wherever she likes, not stick to refereeing women's matches only.
To anyone reading who may feel offended by those nasty woke people…
We aren’t cancelling you, we are challenging you. Meanwhile religious zealots here in the States are having books banned from children’s school libraries that focus on topics that they don’t agree with.
There’s one article above but do look it up, it’s actually happening. And it won’t take long for sections of the British public to follow suit. Meanwhile, I’ll give you three attempts at trying to name a right wing mouthpiece that has actually been ‘cancelSELR_addicks said:
"I'm definitely not controlling and sexist but I would force women to stay in the kitchen and rear children for their entire lives".
When one cannot find a single quote to attack someone they ... Invent their own quote and idiotically attribute it to that person. Best leave you in fantasy land.
What role in society do you think that women should play a part in?
Are they allowed to interact with men in the workplace? Maybe perhaps even hold a similar role to a man in the same working environment?
SELR: I have mother, aunts, sisters, spouse, daughters, female colleagues and ... believe-it-or-not ... women I count as good friends. As unlikely as it may seem, they rather like my honest - hide nothing - approach. They know I am not 'performing to the gallery' and trying to virtue-signal my way through this short life we have. My terminology may appear (on a thread discussion among the rather woke-minded) to belong in the mid 19th Century but most people I know know the INTENT behind what I am saying. That is to say - they know I am not saying something either for effect or to hurt others. It might come across as clumsy or lacking the 'finesse' of a Guardian article (and thank God for that!) but there is no intended malice. To return to the original thread about a female referee. I applauded that this particular person has attained a high level of competence in her chosen field - refereeing. The umbrage that some have taken stems from where that refereeing should take place. Men's football or women's football. It's hardly Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech. And yet to the very distorted among us that is EXACTLY what my comment seems to represent. How utterly ridiculous.
The aforesaid women in my life all seem to play a variety of roles in society, yes. Motherhood being by far and away the most rewarding of these roles (they say). But as educated women they have professional lives also. They interact with men in the workplace. Of course.
I suspect there are many on these pages who think a family functions best when mum and dad are both out at work all day (presumably esp with the woman doing a quintessential male job of course!) and their children are left unparented, neglected and zombied out on computer games until those exhausted parents get home each evening. I don't. And I know a good number of men and women that do not subscribe to this particular configuration of family life.
It never fails to baffle me how the perceived 'victims' of all these woke discussions are always the least problematic persons to actually personally encounter in real life. Whether it be ethnic minorities, women, the same sex attracted, the disabled etc. The real problems are the (mostly) white, middle-class liberal/leftists that think they speak for the whole world when in fact they only speak for JUST other white, middle-class liberal/leftists.
And absolutely no one else.
I wish this woman referee - every happiness and success. And, if she has a husband and children - them too.
You quite clearly do not live in the real world.
I'm sure there are both men and women who would love to spend all day looking after their children, but the reality is that for most people, both parents need to work to earn enough money to bring up their children. Others choose to work as they enjoy it and lead more fulfilled lives by working. Everyone should do what is right for them and the view that the woman's place is in the home is outdated and abhorrent.
Your views on the role of women are archaic and have no place in the 21st century.
Yes, I would tend to agree with you ME14 - both parents DO '... need to work to earn enough money to bring up their children'. The point is, I believe that that NEED to be wrong. Wrong for those parents. Definitely wrong for their children and wrong for society.
I believe as a society we should not be making this sort of demand on parents. If you can point out how children, arguably with MORE complex needs than ever before, have less and less parent time, somehow helps society and builds up this nation to be stronger and makes families stay together and by extension - the community and the nation - I'd be really interested to hear about this. I see the polar opposite taking place. Everywhere.
Simply do not think that the family is should be at the centre of everything. Children need to go to school and be looked after in groups together while their parents are sometimes absent doing other things..
The traditional family unit as we know it is an artificial invention of the industrial age enabling efficiency in factories.
I couldn't differ more. I wonder how many, say, Indian heritage families you know, resident in UK? They seem to "get" family values and traditional families very well. What is completely artificial is the current configuration of the family as progressives see it. It doesn't work.
Well all the Asian women I know, seem to excel in medicine, law and accountancy. So not sure what your point is
And nearly every one, to a man, seems to have a faith. And strong family values.
You really do have a problem with women don't you.
No. Not at all BB. I DO have a problem with leftist blokes who think they speak for women though!
No leftyness here VoT, I'm from the treat everyone how you would like to be treated school of thought.
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
Just some of the time?
What is your view on the dad staying at home and the mum going out to work?
Not the ideal set up ME14. You asked for my view
There are of course many factors to be considered in a case by case basis. You could add somewhere down the line that the father in question has a disability that makes staying at home essential and the mother is very well paid or perhaps has taken over the business etc Perhaps there is a choice of maintaining the aforesaid (not ideal) set up, or a broken home, where the child sees even less of both parent ~ totally for the child to be raised with both parents in the most functional way for the child to adapt and function and thrive and meet the many challenges modern adult life throws up.
Why is it not ideal for a man to stay at home and look after the children, instead of the woman? Apart from giving birth and breast feeding, what can a woman do that a man can't when bringing up their children?
This is once again what those of a reasonable approach to things call "progressive overreach". You pretend that "equality" and "diversity" (perfecly reasonable goals if actually intentioned) are the lynchpin of your leftist philosophy when actually there is something more behind it all. You are now saying the IDEAL in a family unit is for the father to stay at home every day and for the mother to be away from the family home all day every day.
It may be absolutely necessary in some cases yes (see earlier thread comment,) but it is clearly not the IDEAL.
I did not say the ideal was for the father to stay at home and for the mother to stay away from the family home all day. I asked you why you think the woman should be the one to stay at home. You said that the woman can 'mother' and I asked you what that means. I believe everyone must do what is right for them and their circumstances. A man is just as capable of bringing up children as a woman.
For your information I am a woman and have voted Conservative all my life. Unlike you I am able to change my political views and will never vote Conservative again after the shambles of this Government.
I think Rebecca Welch should be free to referee whenever and wherever she likes, not stick to refereeing women's matches only.
I agree with you ME14!! People must do what is right in the circumstances that are set before them. Absolutely.
With regarding your last point BM ~ at no point in this thread have I suggested a woman's place is forever in the home.. Do read the discussion and see that. It was for this earlier accusation that I disclosed various personal relationships with women in my life ~ relatives, colleagues, friends etc. I was then shot down (rather predictably ) with ".... Ere listen to 'im now ...I have women relatives so therefore I can't be sexist" jibes. So I cannot really win..It is impossible to further a discussion when the only purpose is to (attempt to) corner your opponent and (attempt to) shut them down. I do hope you will find more on this thread than just your own viewpoint.
Just some of the time?
What is your view on the dad staying at home and the mum going out to work?
Not the ideal set up ME14. You asked for my view
There are of course many factors to be considered in a case by case basis. You could add somewhere down the line that the father in question has a disability that makes staying at home essential and the mother is very well paid or perhaps has taken over the business etc Perhaps there is a choice of maintaining the aforesaid (not ideal) set up, or a broken home, where the child sees even less of both parent ~ totally for the child to be raised with both parents in the most functional way for the child to adapt and function and thrive and meet the many challenges modern adult life throws up.
Why is it not ideal for a man to stay at home and look after the children, instead of the woman? Apart from giving birth and breast feeding, what can a woman do that a man can't when bringing up their children?
This is once again what those of a reasonable approach to things call "progressive overreach". You pretend that "equality" and "diversity" (perfecly reasonable goals if actually intentioned) are the lynchpin of your leftist philosophy when actually there is something more behind it all. You are now saying the IDEAL in a family unit is for the father to stay at home every day and for the mother to be away from the family home all day every day.
It may be absolutely necessary in some cases yes (see earlier thread comment,) but it is clearly not the IDEAL.
I did not say the ideal was for the father to stay at home and for the mother to stay away from the family home all day. I asked you why you think the woman should be the one to stay at home. You said that the woman can 'mother' and I asked you what that means. I believe everyone must do what is right for them and their circumstances. A man is just as capable of bringing up children as a woman.
For your information I am a woman and have voted Conservative all my life. Unlike you I am able to change my political views and will never vote Conservative again after the shambles of this Government.
I think Rebecca Welch should be free to referee whenever and wherever she likes, not stick to refereeing women's matches only.
"Shambles" is definitely the word ME14. I wholly agree.
What adults are required to do with their children is parent them. Not mother them or father them. Mothering and fathering a child is the term more properly used to describe the reproductive process.
Point taken SP. Out of charity you could probably see what I actually meant by mother and father in that specific sentence. Semantics aside, yes, poorly applied word. Well spotted..
VOT, whenever you post on this thread could you include the following image after the text please? Just to make it more official kinda thing yeah. cheers.
I was told it was part of the leftist playbook to further the Islamification of this country at every possible turn, no? Why on earth therefore would a leftist think such an Islamic image (that s/he promotes) would apply to my comments..surely that would mean you wish to promote my postings too..Now THATS bizarre!
I didn't suggest reading a hit piece on the author, I recommended reading the actual book! Two very different things.
So often in this age we do virtually no challenging of our own error laden default positions, refuse to read a text that may inform us in a variety of ways we may have been hitherto blind to and instead we hunt down any source anywhere that will reinforce our position and noone learns anything at all.
So why don't you challenge your own error laden default position.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
I always try to SELR..
Let me try that again.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
I've referred to and answered this throughout this thread. The fact you wish to ignore all that is referred to and answered and instead just shout "racist" and "sexist" and "troll" at anyone or thing that doesn't appear agreeable to your wokery is really something I cannot address. I'd invite you to look again.
I've not shouted any of the terms 'racist', 'sexist' or 'troll' at you in my comments above.
Just asking you a simple question that yet again you're deflecting.
Do you wish to walk back your idea that Rebecca Welch shouldn't be free to referee men's football if she so chooses and is good enough to do it?
SELR: I invite you to read my reply to Lord Romford's posting. I answerd the question comprehensively there. Twice if memory serves.
Comments
It may be absolutely necessary in some cases yes (see earlier thread comment,) but it is clearly not the IDEAL.
And by the way I’m KBSLITTLESIS. My brother is KB and I’m his little sister. That’s why I’m calling you out again and again. Because I’m a woman and you DO NOT speak for me.
But you know, silly leftist woke Brigade cancelling you...
Just asking you a simple question that yet again you're deflecting.
Mothering and fathering a child is the term more properly used to describe the reproductive process.
For your information I am a woman and have voted Conservative all my life. Unlike you I am able to change my political views and will never vote Conservative again after the shambles of this Government.
I think Rebecca Welch should be free to referee whenever and wherever she likes, not stick to refereeing women's matches only.