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Summer 2022 transfer rumours (Gilbey loan confirmed p513, a signing falls through last minute p541)
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Him playing there adds the potential for goals, set piece delivery and a bit of quality on the ball than none of the others have. One of the few players that we have that plays with his head up and can receive the ball on the half turn. He is also quite good at attacking crosses in the penalty area.Callumcafc said:
I remember JFC had a decent game there once at Fulham so not a terrible idea in a meaningless game. I'd really liked to have seen him back into the midfield dictating the tempo but he has nothing to prove there.Cafc43v3r said:
I would like to see JFC at left wing back with CBT on the right as a one off look see.Callumcafc said:
Even this upcoming Saturday could tell us a decent amount with Clare set to miss out.Cafc43v3r said:
Is Jackson wed to a full back and a winger? Specifically a right back and a left winger? A right back and a right footed winger playing on the left?Chunes said:JJ is deploying CBT and DJ and left wingback now so we don't need Purrington covering there. It would be smarter to bring a dedicated CB in.
One way to frame these questions is to ask if this player were available on a free, would we be happy signing them?
I personally would be very unhappy if we signed a steady eddie full-back because they would serve no place or purpose in this team.
If we keep him and/or Matthews that says a lot about the season ahead, for me.
I have no idea, I would imagine that question won't be revealed until the squad is settled (probably mid September) and that would dictate if Matthews and/or Purrington get new contracts.
Does Jackson move Matthews to RCB (as he has a couple of times in the past), or bring in Inniss? That decision will likely dictate which side that the more attacking DJ/CBT plays.
If DJ/CBT end up on the right side with Matthews in the three, I'd imagine we'll see Purrington as the more defensively solid full/wing back on the left.
If he brings in Inniss, it's just a straight swap with Matthews staying wide right and DJ/CBT wide left.
With Fraser inside him you could actually get both of them in the same team. LWB might also stop JFC getting in Dobson's way. Dobson is better when he has the responsibility and clarity that he is the only one there. He is significantly better when he isn't in the double pivot.3 -
I'll be honest that I've forgotten about the squad limit size - it it 21 not including keepers and youth players?Todds_right_hook said:
I agree, but do we need players who can play 2 positions when considering the reduced squad sizes for next season? On that basis, I think one of purington and Matthews will get offered a new 1 year dealNorth Lower Neil said:Part of our problem has been the "can do a job there" types, having full backs at centre-back and wing-back, midfielders in defence etc.
If we're set on 352, and we appear to be, I'd rather we let Purrington and Matthews go and sign proper right and left wing backs so we have those two competing with CBT (and DJ as a 4th choice), and centre backs to play at centre back.
If so, if we sign smartly that's 2 for every position anyway, less need for that versatility, but we can still have CBT & DJ who can play RWB or LWB, Clare who could do a job at RWB etc within the squad.
The squad limit is hopefully less of an issue without the likes of Watson, Soaure, Gunter taking up valuable places.
We've got a good chance to get it in order this summer for that very reason. Inniss, Pearce, Purrington all go for me.2 -
So where would you play them in the 352?killerandflash said:
Both are a bit flawed in that position thoughChunes said:JJ is deploying CBT and DJ and left wingback now so we don't need Purrington covering there. It would be smarter to bring a dedicated CB in.
One way to frame these questions is to ask if this player were available on a free, would we be happy signing them?
I personally would be very unhappy if we signed a steady eddie full-back because they would serve no place or purpose in this team.
If we keep him and/or Matthews that says a lot about the season ahead, for me.
CBT does get caught out defensively from time to time, and as our best attacking threat, it feels a waste having him having to concentrate so much on defending
With DJ, he's better defensively, but doesn't contribute enough in attack. I'm struggling to remember much attacking threat from him on Saturday0 -
Another valid question is do you want the option of playing a flat 4 as plan B or C?Chunes said:
So where would you play them in the 352?killerandflash said:
Both are a bit flawed in that position thoughChunes said:JJ is deploying CBT and DJ and left wingback now so we don't need Purrington covering there. It would be smarter to bring a dedicated CB in.
One way to frame these questions is to ask if this player were available on a free, would we be happy signing them?
I personally would be very unhappy if we signed a steady eddie full-back because they would serve no place or purpose in this team.
If we keep him and/or Matthews that says a lot about the season ahead, for me.
CBT does get caught out defensively from time to time, and as our best attacking threat, it feels a waste having him having to concentrate so much on defending
With DJ, he's better defensively, but doesn't contribute enough in attack. I'm struggling to remember much attacking threat from him on Saturday1 -
Isn’t he under contract to Norwich? I assume he is because this seasons loan had a option to buy at the end of the season. They can’t sell a player who is not under contract.Chunes said:
I doubt he's signed a deal because if you can sign players outside of transfer windows like that or everyone would be doing it. We could have got a lot of our summer business done ready for the first day of the window for instance.Maccn05 said:The one transfer story I've heard from a few friends so seems to be out there is that Akin won't be back apparently he's signed a deal earlier in the year with a Championship club rumoured as Boro or Millwall. This coincided with his drop in form / being dropped.
So no more longing balling it into touch from Akin next season.
Having said that, I don’t want us to buy him. Despite comments earlier in the thread, I think he makes more mistakes than Naby, who also won’t be coming here.0 -
Seems like the 3-4-3 we saw at the end of the Shrewsbury and Morecambe games are becoming JJ's Plan BCafc43v3r said:
Another valid question is do you want the option of playing a flat 4 as plan B or C?Chunes said:
So where would you play them in the 352?killerandflash said:
Both are a bit flawed in that position thoughChunes said:JJ is deploying CBT and DJ and left wingback now so we don't need Purrington covering there. It would be smarter to bring a dedicated CB in.
One way to frame these questions is to ask if this player were available on a free, would we be happy signing them?
I personally would be very unhappy if we signed a steady eddie full-back because they would serve no place or purpose in this team.
If we keep him and/or Matthews that says a lot about the season ahead, for me.
CBT does get caught out defensively from time to time, and as our best attacking threat, it feels a waste having him having to concentrate so much on defending
With DJ, he's better defensively, but doesn't contribute enough in attack. I'm struggling to remember much attacking threat from him on Saturday2 -
He's out of contract this summer so while not officially done, he's agreed terms and the deal is all but done ready for when his contract expires.Chunes said:
I doubt he's signed a deal because if you can sign players outside of transfer windows like that or everyone would be doing it. We could have got a lot of our summer business done ready for the first day of the window for instance.Maccn05 said:The one transfer story I've heard from a few friends so seems to be out there is that Akin won't be back apparently he's signed a deal earlier in the year with a Championship club rumoured as Boro or Millwall. This coincided with his drop in form / being dropped.
So no more longing balling it into touch from Akin next season.0 -
He may have agreed terms but he’s not signed. I believe there were conditions to be met anyway, in my opinion we only had the option to buy if we were promoted as I think he feels he’s better than League One.Maccn05 said:
He's out of contract this summer so while not officially done, he's agreed terms and the deal is all but done ready for when his contract expires.Chunes said:
I doubt he's signed a deal because if you can sign players outside of transfer windows like that or everyone would be doing it. We could have got a lot of our summer business done ready for the first day of the window for instance.Maccn05 said:The one transfer story I've heard from a few friends so seems to be out there is that Akin won't be back apparently he's signed a deal earlier in the year with a Championship club rumoured as Boro or Millwall. This coincided with his drop in form / being dropped.
So no more longing balling it into touch from Akin next season.1 -
Don’t think he’s out of contract at Norwich though, as that would make our ‘loan to buy’ pointless!Maccn05 said:
He's out of contract this summer so while not officially done, he's agreed terms and the deal is all but done ready for when his contract expires.Chunes said:
I doubt he's signed a deal because if you can sign players outside of transfer windows like that or everyone would be doing it. We could have got a lot of our summer business done ready for the first day of the window for instance.Maccn05 said:The one transfer story I've heard from a few friends so seems to be out there is that Akin won't be back apparently he's signed a deal earlier in the year with a Championship club rumoured as Boro or Millwall. This coincided with his drop in form / being dropped.
So no more longing balling it into touch from Akin next season.Presumably he’s heard from Millwall/boro via Norwich and his agent?0 -
An alternative for Saturday would be Matthews at right CB, and Morgan at right wing back
Morgan has after all played right midfield before under Bowyer, and should be a reasonable crosser. That way JFC can play in the middle.4 -
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I stand corrected his contract expires next season. 4 people have told me the same rumour so suggests he has something lined up.0
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I did wonder whether we could do some sort of swap deal with Blackpool.Scoham said:
Left Backs Reece James and Luke Garbutt haven't played regularly or Ethan Robson had a good loan at MKD earlier in the season.1 -
Looking at their squad, Critchley has done a brilliant job to get them to a comfortable mid table finishRichard J said:
I did wonder whether we could do some sort of swap deal with Blackpool.Scoham said:
Left Backs Reece James and Luke Garbutt haven't played regularly or Ethan Robson had a good loan at MKD earlier in the season.0 -
There is nothing wrong with utilising the loan market, if you can get high quality players in as part of your squad. We saw it with Cullen and Bielik especially.
I was thinking earlier about some potential targets that we should be asking after. I remembered the two impressive Irish lads that played for Brighton U18s at the Valley earlier in the season.
Ferguson #9 and Moran #10. Both are young, but extremely talented players who ran the show as they ran out comfortable winners in the end. Both have had a taste of PL football since and Brighton might be looking for the Championship for loans, if they loan them out at all.
I think on balance both are unlikely and probably out of our range talent wise. But this is the sort of young player we should be fishing for.7 -
I would also hope we have a good idea of who is likely to be released by the Cat 1 academies over the summer.There is plenty of talent being let go every year, the George Dobsons of this world. Rather than wait for these players to have a good couple of seasons with other teams in this league and having to pay six figure fees, let’s sign them on free transfers instead.
Kane Wilson another great example. Let go by WBA two years ago and now the League Two player of the year with a dozen plus clubs lining up to sign him7 -
I think this is an area where we don’t look enough in. We could, and probably would, find some very talented players better that could develop with us for a couple of years and sell on for a good fee. It’s not just our own academy we should be keeping track of, it’s those in other academies who do not have the pathway that we provide.Callumcafc said:I would also hope we have a good idea of who is likely to be released by the Cat 1 academies over the summer.There is plenty of talent being let go every year, the George Dobsons of this world. Rather than wait for these players to have a good couple of seasons with other teams in this league and having to pay six figure fees, let’s sign them on free transfers instead.
Kane Wilson another great example. Let go by WBA two years ago and now the League Two player of the year with a dozen plus clubs lining up to sign him22 -
Strange in a way as thats exactly how Ryan Viggars joined us around this time last season.Sage said:
I think this is an area where we don’t look enough in. We could, and probably would, find some very talented players better that could develop with us for a couple of years and sell on for a good fee. It’s not just our own academy we should be keeping track of, it’s those in other academies who do not have the pathway that we provide.Callumcafc said:I would also hope we have a good idea of who is likely to be released by the Cat 1 academies over the summer.There is plenty of talent being let go every year, the George Dobsons of this world. Rather than wait for these players to have a good couple of seasons with other teams in this league and having to pay six figure fees, let’s sign them on free transfers instead.
Kane Wilson another great example. Let go by WBA two years ago and now the League Two player of the year with a dozen plus clubs lining up to sign him
Just need to have our finger on the pulse a lot more.3 -
I think Charlton actually a very good track record of bring players in from other academies, I would say around 50% of the U23 haven't come all the way through the Charlton system, they have been at other academies..Sage said:
I think this is an area where we don’t look enough in. We could, and probably would, find some very talented players better that could develop with us for a couple of years and sell on for a good fee. It’s not just our own academy we should be keeping track of, it’s those in other academies who do not have the pathway that we provide.Callumcafc said:I would also hope we have a good idea of who is likely to be released by the Cat 1 academies over the summer.There is plenty of talent being let go every year, the George Dobsons of this world. Rather than wait for these players to have a good couple of seasons with other teams in this league and having to pay six figure fees, let’s sign them on free transfers instead.
Kane Wilson another great example. Let go by WBA two years ago and now the League Two player of the year with a dozen plus clubs lining up to sign him2 -
Ask Nile John who is good in the Spurs academy, really rub it in.Callumcafc said:I would also hope we have a good idea of who is likely to be released by the Cat 1 academies over the summer.There is plenty of talent being let go every year, the George Dobsons of this world. Rather than wait for these players to have a good couple of seasons with other teams in this league and having to pay six figure fees, let’s sign them on free transfers instead.
Kane Wilson another great example. Let go by WBA two years ago and now the League Two player of the year with a dozen plus clubs lining up to sign him
(I agree though).3 -
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Two different things, what we don’t really do is sign young players let go elsewhere who are good enough to go straight into the first team. Kane Wilson for example.DubaiCAFC said:
I think Charlton actually a very good track record of bring players in from other academies, I would say around 50% of the U23 haven't come all the way through the Charlton system, they have been at other academies..Sage said:
I think this is an area where we don’t look enough in. We could, and probably would, find some very talented players better that could develop with us for a couple of years and sell on for a good fee. It’s not just our own academy we should be keeping track of, it’s those in other academies who do not have the pathway that we provide.Callumcafc said:I would also hope we have a good idea of who is likely to be released by the Cat 1 academies over the summer.There is plenty of talent being let go every year, the George Dobsons of this world. Rather than wait for these players to have a good couple of seasons with other teams in this league and having to pay six figure fees, let’s sign them on free transfers instead.
Kane Wilson another great example. Let go by WBA two years ago and now the League Two player of the year with a dozen plus clubs lining up to sign him
On making u23 signings how many are here to be genuine first team prospects and how many are making up the numbers? Some of the u23 signings are the latter, they need enough to have a decent sized squad.1 -
Is there a flaw in the logic that says if you have a development system then play your own developed or developing players rather than cast around for loans?
I know the answer is yes if what you loan is better than what you’ve got, but looking at this past season I would say we have in house players as good as what we have loaned in.
At third division level surely the opportunity to try and to blood our own players is here.
Save wasting money on indifferent strangers.2 -
I'm not sure there are easy answers here. I can understand why we don't play our own youngsters that aren't ready. But I don't understand why we loan useless players that aren't ready/don't play.seth plum said:Is there a flaw in the logic that says if you have a development system then play your own developed or developing players rather than cast around for loans?
I know the answer is yes if what you loan is better than what you’ve got, but looking at this past season I would say we have in house players as good as what we have loaned in.
At third division level surely the opportunity to try and to blood our own players is here.
Save wasting money on indifferent strangers.
It's clearly not an either/or situation, in that loaning Arter/John/Castillo were not keeping youngsters out of the team since they didn't play and neither did the youngsters.2 -
And that's the issue - the answer probbaly isn't playing your own players if they arent much good either, it's loaning better players than those you have.seth plum said:Is there a flaw in the logic that says if you have a development system then play your own developed or developing players rather than cast around for loans?
I know the answer is yes if what you loan is better than what you’ve got, but looking at this past season I would say we have in house players as good as what we have loaned in.
At third division level surely the opportunity to try and to blood our own players is here.
Save wasting money on indifferent strangers.
Easier said than done, obviously.0 -
That is also the issue, if the loans are not ‘better’ then what is the point?
They cost money too.
I know I am a bit obsessive about this, but the question remains why have a development system and not use it?
Kanu for 40 seconds last Saturday was farcical.
As is the Nile John situation.0 -
If things were different we would probably have 4 or 5 in the first team. The reason we haven't is we either sold them (in some cases we didn't have a choice) Gomez, Grant and Konsa could of all still played u23s last season! or didn't extend their contracts when we should have.seth plum said:That is also the issue, if the loans are not ‘better’ then what is the point?
They cost money too.
I know I am a bit obsessive about this, but the question remains why have a development system and not use it?
Kanu for 40 seconds last Saturday was farcical.
As is the Nile John situation.
Dijksteel, Aribo and Lookman are just a year older. Doughty left after 5 minutes, Morgan has been stop start and Lapslie wasn't good enough. That's a great core of young players we could of had, not including others that left even younger.
There is no point playing 17 and 18 year old boys if they aren't ready, it does more harm than good. It's not like we have any, let alone 3 or 4, 19-21 year olds knocking the door down or missing out.
That's the thing that will take time to fix. That's what decades of under investment does.13 -
I think you are spot on, but not necessarily about the under investment. We simply sell the youngsters as demonstrated by your list. It’s unrealistic to keep expecting more, even in the third tier.Cafc43v3r said:
If things were different we would probably have 4 or 5 in the first team. The reason we haven't is we either sold them (in some cases we didn't have a choice) Gomez, Grant and Konsa could of all still played u23s last season! or didn't extend their contracts when we should have.seth plum said:That is also the issue, if the loans are not ‘better’ then what is the point?
They cost money too.
I know I am a bit obsessive about this, but the question remains why have a development system and not use it?
Kanu for 40 seconds last Saturday was farcical.
As is the Nile John situation.
Dijksteel, Aribo and Lookman are just a year older. Doughty left after 5 minutes, Morgan has been stop start and Lapslie wasn't good enough. That's a great core of young players we could of had, not including others that left even younger.
There is no point playing 17 and 18 year old boys if they aren't ready, it does more harm than good. It's not like we have any, let alone 3 or 4, 19-21 year olds knocking the door down or missing out.
That's the thing that will take time to fix. That's what decades of under investment does.0 -
That’s the point I was making. There would be players released from other academies who would be able to go and get a place in the first team squad. What we do instead is sign others not quite ready for the first team, for the U23 or U18s.Scoham said:
Two different things, what we don’t really do is sign young players let go elsewhere who are good enough to go straight into the first team. Kane Wilson for example.DubaiCAFC said:
I think Charlton actually a very good track record of bring players in from other academies, I would say around 50% of the U23 haven't come all the way through the Charlton system, they have been at other academies..Sage said:
I think this is an area where we don’t look enough in. We could, and probably would, find some very talented players better that could develop with us for a couple of years and sell on for a good fee. It’s not just our own academy we should be keeping track of, it’s those in other academies who do not have the pathway that we provide.Callumcafc said:I would also hope we have a good idea of who is likely to be released by the Cat 1 academies over the summer.There is plenty of talent being let go every year, the George Dobsons of this world. Rather than wait for these players to have a good couple of seasons with other teams in this league and having to pay six figure fees, let’s sign them on free transfers instead.
Kane Wilson another great example. Let go by WBA two years ago and now the League Two player of the year with a dozen plus clubs lining up to sign him
On making u23 signings how many are here to be genuine first team prospects and how many are making up the numbers? Some of the u23 signings are the latter, they need enough to have a decent sized squad.
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If you look at it though, each club release 5 or 6 every single year, how many of them end up at a decent size club and doing well.. Not many I don't think.Sage said:
That’s the point I was making. There would be players released from other academies who would be able to go and get a place in the first team squad. What we do instead is sign others not quite ready for the first team, for the U23 or U18s.Scoham said:
Two different things, what we don’t really do is sign young players let go elsewhere who are good enough to go straight into the first team. Kane Wilson for example.DubaiCAFC said:
I think Charlton actually a very good track record of bring players in from other academies, I would say around 50% of the U23 haven't come all the way through the Charlton system, they have been at other academies..Sage said:
I think this is an area where we don’t look enough in. We could, and probably would, find some very talented players better that could develop with us for a couple of years and sell on for a good fee. It’s not just our own academy we should be keeping track of, it’s those in other academies who do not have the pathway that we provide.Callumcafc said:I would also hope we have a good idea of who is likely to be released by the Cat 1 academies over the summer.There is plenty of talent being let go every year, the George Dobsons of this world. Rather than wait for these players to have a good couple of seasons with other teams in this league and having to pay six figure fees, let’s sign them on free transfers instead.
Kane Wilson another great example. Let go by WBA two years ago and now the League Two player of the year with a dozen plus clubs lining up to sign him
On making u23 signings how many are here to be genuine first team prospects and how many are making up the numbers? Some of the u23 signings are the latter, they need enough to have a decent sized squad.
But as you say, there are normally a few hidden gems out there, and finding them is tough.. We have one with CBT via another club.. Fosu was another one0 -
Your never going to keep a Gomez, it's just how much you get, we wouldn't have kept him in the top tier.cafcfan1990 said:
I think you are spot on, but not necessarily about the under investment. We simply sell the youngsters as demonstrated by your list. It’s unrealistic to keep expecting more, even in the third tier.Cafc43v3r said:
If things were different we would probably have 4 or 5 in the first team. The reason we haven't is we either sold them (in some cases we didn't have a choice) Gomez, Grant and Konsa could of all still played u23s last season! or didn't extend their contracts when we should have.seth plum said:That is also the issue, if the loans are not ‘better’ then what is the point?
They cost money too.
I know I am a bit obsessive about this, but the question remains why have a development system and not use it?
Kanu for 40 seconds last Saturday was farcical.
As is the Nile John situation.
Dijksteel, Aribo and Lookman are just a year older. Doughty left after 5 minutes, Morgan has been stop start and Lapslie wasn't good enough. That's a great core of young players we could of had, not including others that left even younger.
There is no point playing 17 and 18 year old boys if they aren't ready, it does more harm than good. It's not like we have any, let alone 3 or 4, 19-21 year olds knocking the door down or missing out.
That's the thing that will take time to fix. That's what decades of under investment does.
We sold Konsa and Dijksteel because we wanted the money and ballsed up Aribo and Doughty's contracts. Grant we managed to do both at the same time. All 5 were avoidable.
Lookman is the only one we got fair use and fair money from.
The rest is lack of investment and shoddy contract management that go hand in hand.
I didn't even include others that left younger, Palmer is only 25.
Seth's point is why have a youth team if you don't have a pathway. Mine is that's not the case at all.2
