I don't know... Seems like some of our fanbase have forgotten about trying to enjoy the football or the start of a new season and instead spend all day moaning about the owner/transfers. I thought it was just us but I guess it's happening at every club.
Little bit easier to enjoy the football when you’re one of the best teams in the world. Whilst just down the road Charlton are conceding a 96th min equaliser at Accrington Stanley…
"All I want is an owner who cares so I can just go back to watching the football."
I think the response would have been completely different if the narrative had been:
"The whole club is fucked, from top to bottom, it's going to take 2 maybe 3 years to fix. We won't always get it right but it won't be through lack of trying. It wont be easy but we will get there".
I genuinely think last season was a massive kick in the bollocks for everyone, including TS. I honestly believe he thought we had a "title winning" squad.
It doesn't take 3 seasons to turn around a football club, especially when the club is below it's natural level. Wigan rebuilt their side in one summer and got promotion straight away, whereas we made a horlicks of it and went backwards from what had been a decent team at the end of 20/21. Bolton rebuilt in L2, got promotion straight away, had a decent season in L1 and now look better equipped to challenge for promotion than we do.
What is our "natural level" though? Bolton and Wigan were in the Premier League more recently than we were. We've spent seven of the last eight years (double check my maths there) in League One. We have a Cat 2 academy, albeit a very good one. We have a League One budget and we're running at a loss (as almost every club, if not every club, at this level is).
Look, I think TS has serious issues if he fully believes some of the things he's said, especially at this point. And it's particularly hard to get things right when you make yourself the CEO despite no football, or even UK business, experience. And also hard when you make your son the head of analytics despite no football AND no analytics experience. But hey, rich guy is gonna rich guy.
I don't think any teams deserves to be at a particular level unless they're actually at that level. There is a reason we're at this level, there's a reason Derby and Portsmouth and Sheff Wed and Bolton are at this level despite having been in the Premier League at at least one point. In many cases, it's financial mismanagement, which is shit, but it's a very strong and common reason to fail and fall down the leagues.
Sorry, this isn't a dig at you specifically, I see this mindset both implicitly and explicitly on here all the time because a lot of us grew up with Charlton in the Prem. But that was almost 15 years ago. That was the exception, not the rule. If you go off of those last 15 years, I believe we've spent more time in League One than the Championship now (again, double check my maths). We were on the brink of not existing anymore at at least one point and quite possibly more. The club's current owner doesn't own the stadium. I would argue we're at our level.
Our natural level is the Championship, it's where we've easily spent the most seasons, with slightly more top tier seasons than 3rd tier ones.
Between the mid 30s and late 2000s slump we'd only spent 4 seasons in Div 3. It's never taken us more than 3 seasons to return to the 2nd tier from the the 3rd tier.
Financially, L1 football doesn't work for us, as our infrastructure is so much more expensive than for the likes of Accrington or Cheltenham.
Mckirdy, still young, but been around, rarely done anything anywhere, with an attitude of a premier league footballer and the ability of a mid table league 2 team. Last season was a fluke.
You can’t fluke an entire season so that’s nonsense, he got 23 goals in 44 games most from wide right.
I don’t doubt he’s got attitude issues that’s probably obvious to most, I reckon he has aspirations elsewhere and is half arsed interested.
I don't know... Seems like some of our fanbase have forgotten about trying to enjoy the football or the start of a new season and instead spend all day moaning about the owner/transfers. I thought it was just us but I guess it's happening at every club.
Little bit easier to enjoy the football when you’re one of the best teams in the world. Whilst just down the road Charlton are conceding a 96th min equaliser at Accrington Stanley…
"All I want is an owner who cares so I can just go back to watching the football."
I think the response would have been completely different if the narrative had been:
"The whole club is fucked, from top to bottom, it's going to take 2 maybe 3 years to fix. We won't always get it right but it won't be through lack of trying. It wont be easy but we will get there".
I genuinely think last season was a massive kick in the bollocks for everyone, including TS. I honestly believe he thought we had a "title winning" squad.
It doesn't take 3 seasons to turn around a football club, especially when the club is below it's natural level. Wigan rebuilt their side in one summer and got promotion straight away, whereas we made a horlicks of it and went backwards from what had been a decent team at the end of 20/21. Bolton rebuilt in L2, got promotion straight away, had a decent season in L1 and now look better equipped to challenge for promotion than we do.
What is our "natural level" though? Bolton and Wigan were in the Premier League more recently than we were. We've spent seven of the last eight years (double check my maths there) in League One. We have a Cat 2 academy, albeit a very good one. We have a League One budget and we're running at a loss (as almost every club, if not every club, at this level is).
Look, I think TS has serious issues if he fully believes some of the things he's said, especially at this point. And it's particularly hard to get things right when you make yourself the CEO despite no football, or even UK business, experience. And also hard when you make your son the head of analytics despite no football AND no analytics experience. But hey, rich guy is gonna rich guy.
I don't think any teams deserves to be at a particular level unless they're actually at that level. There is a reason we're at this level, there's a reason Derby and Portsmouth and Sheff Wed and Bolton are at this level despite having been in the Premier League at at least one point. In many cases, it's financial mismanagement, which is shit, but it's a very strong and common reason to fail and fall down the leagues.
Sorry, this isn't a dig at you specifically, I see this mindset both implicitly and explicitly on here all the time because a lot of us grew up with Charlton in the Prem. But that was almost 15 years ago. That was the exception, not the rule. If you go off of those last 15 years, I believe we've spent more time in League One than the Championship now (again, double check my maths). We were on the brink of not existing anymore at at least one point and quite possibly more. The club's current owner doesn't own the stadium. I would argue we're at our level.
I'd agree natural level would be where you end up in order of financial clout. We're losing money as are most, so I'm not sure what natural level means.
It's the club's income which is a better indicator of the natural level. Sunderland may have got stuck in L1 for a few seasons, but everyone knew they would eventually get it right as at that level they were a massive club, with gates and income vastly higher than the smaller clubs in the division, and indeed much of the Championship.
JFC at his best was clearly one of the better midfielders we’ve had in this division and he had some decent matches at Championship level, albeit in a team that was relegated. Standing out in our mediocre teams doesn’t necessarily make you a great player overall and I don’t think he would’ve got into Bowyer’s play off winning team, even if fit. However, I think it’s a bit disrespectful, unless injuries have really taken their toll (and how would most fans know having not seen him play much since fit again), to suggest he is league 2 level when he had lots of good matches in the two divisions above, especially league 1 level.
Pratley for example has played at much higher levels but is currently League two level. Not disrespectful to feel JFC is the same.
I’ve always felt our natural level were the years I really started going to games on my own …. Early to mid 90s. Mid table championship with moments of challenging the play offs (think the Nelson, Leaburn, Balmer, Robson, Whyte etc years).
Not surprised that McG is possibly on the move. Although I'd want experienced cover when Wollacott goes to the World Cup , not sure I'd be comfortable with Harness in goal for a month
Wollacott's distribution hasn't especially stood out when compared to McG's, it's more the way he dominates his area. He's far more commanding, and seems more athletic too.
Wollacott's distribution hasn't especially stood out when compared to McG's, it's more the way he dominates his area. He's far more commanding, and seems more athletic too.
I’ve always felt our natural level were the years I really started going to games on my own …. Early to mid 90s. Mid table championship with moments of challenging the play offs (think the Nelson, Leaburn, Balmer, Robson, Whyte etc years).
I recall reading an article on this very point a few years ago, and both us and Barnsley were occupying 30th in the pyramid. Fitting how we are both in League One now, so I'm assuming their fans will be saying similar to ours. Come on Barnsley, let's go up together and quieten those down at Hillsboro.
If we started yesterday with MacG in goal and Matthews and Purrington at full back it would have been done and dusted by half time. I don’t like these parallel comparisons too much but I sincerely believe that. You have to give credit there to BG because we were unsure on the need for a new keeper and the lack of left backs before the season started.
Mckirdy, still young, but been around, rarely done anything anywhere, with an attitude of a premier league footballer and the ability of a mid table league 2 team. Last season was a fluke.
You can’t fluke an entire season so that’s nonsense, he got 23 goals in 44 games most from wide right.
I don’t doubt he’s got attitude issues that’s probably obvious to most, I reckon he has aspirations elsewhere and is half arsed interested.
There have been many one season wonders in football. Berahino had a great season at West brom then scored about 20 goals in the next 5 years. Michu at Swansea was amazing one season, did nothing after that and within 3-4 years he'd retired at the age of 31. I remember Michael Ricketts having a decent season for Bolton and getting an England cap, he did nothing of note after.
Not saying McKirdy is a one season wonder, as it could just as easily be his break out season but he's 25 and has only had that one good season. I'd still be happy if we signed him though, but a 2 year deal with an option of a third just in case he turns out shit and we're not tied in for years.
Realistically, I feel like McKirdy is also a lot more likely than Stockton too.
As I've already said on here before, Stockton impressed me at The Valley last season. Even taking away the bumper amount of goals he scored and trying to evaluate him on that performance alone, it was the hold-up play, runs and intelligent movement that impressed me most. Stockley just lacks that for me, and Washington was the one player we did have that could play in that way. I see Stockton as a slower, but more clinical upgrade to Washington, who would fit very well into Garnerball. Apparently Rotherham are still sniffing around and likely still very much out of our budget - it's a shame, because I'd have made him our top target.
McKirdy has the aggy nature that winds up away fans, and that niggle can be handy in this league. If he can bring another 10-15 L1 goals, he could fit in very nicely. Age is better than Stockton, but much more volatile. Discipline is a bit of a concern, with 11 yellows last season. If Garner knows him well enough, then it's just about if the numbers work for TS.
I'll be happy if we get any striker/forward/goal-scorer tbh. Stockton remains the one I'd love us to get, but I'd be fine with us having McKirdy.
I think Tyreece Simpson will be the striker we sign….and could be the player who Garner mentioned he had been chasing / working on for a long time. Had a big impact at Swindon last year but hasn’t even featured on the bench for Ipswich this season.
Think him and JRS could be the two we are close on.
Wollacott it is the best of the keepers we have on the books. If he is absent during the World Cup, Harness is no worse than Mac in my opinion. It might help everybody if Mac moves on, a modest fee would be a welcome bonus.
Given the season he had last year, it makes you wonder why Stockton hasn’t moved on from Morecambe to a bigger club. There has been very few rumors about him going anywhere not just charlton. Perhaps the asking price is too high given the one year wonder risk
I don't know... Seems like some of our fanbase have forgotten about trying to enjoy the football or the start of a new season and instead spend all day moaning about the owner/transfers. I thought it was just us but I guess it's happening at every club.
Little bit easier to enjoy the football when you’re one of the best teams in the world. Whilst just down the road Charlton are conceding a 96th min equaliser at Accrington Stanley…
"All I want is an owner who cares so I can just go back to watching the football."
I think the response would have been completely different if the narrative had been:
"The whole club is fucked, from top to bottom, it's going to take 2 maybe 3 years to fix. We won't always get it right but it won't be through lack of trying. It wont be easy but we will get there".
I genuinely think last season was a massive kick in the bollocks for everyone, including TS. I honestly believe he thought we had a "title winning" squad.
It's strange, though. I flicked through some previous summer transfer threads from the Roland/ESI days, back when we couldn't even field a complete team and didn't know when or what quality of player we'd be signing, and it was still less miserable than it is now.
I think there was an element of acceptance back then? Everyone gave the management team 100% support in the knowledge that they were doing their best in difficult circumstances, and there was nothing we could do about it. We just hoped for better days.
Now we do have an owner who cares, and it hasn't yet resulted in an improved league performance, but the mood is even more miserable than when it all felt hopeless. The 100% support mantra is gone as well.
Totally agree for me I don't understand getting on TS back, yes he was naive with his first set of comments yes he may want to play his own music at half time etc perhaps it boosts his ego but for me he took over our club and bailed us out weeks or days before administration, he has sunk money into the club both on and off the pitch, it may not be as much as some people may like but that is tough, as far as I am concerned he rescued our club away from scumbags and as long as he has CAFCs best interests at heart he has my backing.
Wollacott's distribution hasn't especially stood out when compared to McG's, it's more the way he dominates his area. He's far more commanding, and seems more athletic too.
To be fair, he does seem to release the ball a bit quicker than mcg
Wollacott has been outstanding in the two games so far. He made superb saves up at Accrington and similarly yesterday. I’m not bothered too much if he has a preference for punching sometimes as long as he’s good at it. Punching the ball is far more common these days and many GK’s are very good at it. Wollacott is also not the tallest so getting something on the ball when under challenge might be his aim rather than catching and dropping. To me he looks very athletic and mobile and so far hasn’t put a foot wrong.
I think Tyreece Simpson will be the striker we sign….and could be the player who Garner mentioned he had been chasing / working on for a long time. Had a big impact at Swindon last year but hasn’t even featured on the bench for Ipswich this season.
Think him and JRS could be the two we are close on.
Those 2 would be amazing signings. Not sure if Simpson will happen though, can’t see TS spending a fee on a striker when he’s already spent 800k on that position in the last year
Wollacott has been outstanding in the two games so far. He made superb saves up at Accrington and similarly yesterday. I’m not bothered too much if he has a preference for punching sometimes as long as he’s good at it. Punching the ball is far more common these days and many GK’s are very good at it. Wollacott is also not the tallest so getting something on the ball when under challenge might be his aim rather than catching and dropping. To me he looks very athletic and mobile and so far hasn’t put a foot wrong.
This. Feel much more confident with him in goal. Also, I like his positioning when we were defending corners yesterday. Rather than stay rooted to his line, he was on the edge of the 6 yard box. Of course that might just be down to the corners Derby take, so will be interesting to see if he continues to take that position.
I think Tyreece Simpson will be the striker we sign….and could be the player who Garner mentioned he had been chasing / working on for a long time. Had a big impact at Swindon last year but hasn’t even featured on the bench for Ipswich this season.
Think him and JRS could be the two we are close on.
Those 2 would be amazing signings. Not sure if Simpson will happen though, can’t see TS spending a fee on a striker when he’s already spent 800k on that position in the last year
I can see TS spending a fee. Striker is the one position in any team you really do get what you pay for and nearly all strikers under contract will command a fee.
Paul Benson cost us a fee, even Josh Davison apparently went for a fee. And anyone out of contract has surely been snapped up by now.
That said while I can see a fee being paid for the right player I'd still say a loan is the most likely option.
I think Tyreece Simpson will be the striker we sign….and could be the player who Garner mentioned he had been chasing / working on for a long time. Had a big impact at Swindon last year but hasn’t even featured on the bench for Ipswich this season.
Think him and JRS could be the two we are close on.
Those 2 would be amazing signings. Not sure if Simpson will happen though, can’t see TS spending a fee on a striker when he’s already spent 800k on that position in the last year
I can see TS spending a fee. Striker is the one position in any team you really do get what you pay for and nearly all strikers under contract will command a fee.
Paul Benson cost us a fee, even Josh Davison apparently went for a fee. And anyone out of contract has surely been snapped up by now.
That said while I can see a fee being paid for the right player I'd still say a loan is the most likely option.
Unless it's a "frozen out" older championship player or a 1st time loan kid I can't see why anyone would want to loan us a striker.
The only way I can see us getting a striker significantly better/more suited than Stockley is buying one or getting, and keeping Aneke fit. I can't see either happening.
We will end up playing like Brazil in 82, with our very own Serginho. That's one for the kids!
Wollacott it is the best of the keepers we have on the books. If he is absent during the World Cup, Harness is no worse than Mac in my opinion. It might help everybody if Mac moves on, a modest fee would be a welcome bonus.
Think that it is too early for Harness. I wasn't impressed with him against Ipswich. He needs a loan at National League level.
Will we able to have a temporary loan keeper given the unique circumstances?
I feel sure a Premiership club would be happy to loan us a keeper knowing that they would get at least two league matches as well as FA Cup and JPT first team games.
Comments
Between the mid 30s and late 2000s slump we'd only spent 4 seasons in Div 3. It's never taken us more than 3 seasons to return to the 2nd tier from the the 3rd tier.
Financially, L1 football doesn't work for us, as our infrastructure is so much more expensive than for the likes of Accrington or Cheltenham.
I don’t doubt he’s got attitude issues that’s probably obvious to most, I reckon he has aspirations elsewhere and is half arsed interested.
If only you knew JR Buttle because he was decent with some insider information.
Not saying McKirdy is a one season wonder, as it could just as easily be his break out season but he's 25 and has only had that one good season. I'd still be happy if we signed him though, but a 2 year deal with an option of a third just in case he turns out shit and we're not tied in for years.
As I've already said on here before, Stockton impressed me at The Valley last season. Even taking away the bumper amount of goals he scored and trying to evaluate him on that performance alone, it was the hold-up play, runs and intelligent movement that impressed me most. Stockley just lacks that for me, and Washington was the one player we did have that could play in that way. I see Stockton as a slower, but more clinical upgrade to Washington, who would fit very well into Garnerball. Apparently Rotherham are still sniffing around and likely still very much out of our budget - it's a shame, because I'd have made him our top target.
McKirdy has the aggy nature that winds up away fans, and that niggle can be handy in this league. If he can bring another 10-15 L1 goals, he could fit in very nicely. Age is better than Stockton, but much more volatile. Discipline is a bit of a concern, with 11 yellows last season. If Garner knows him well enough, then it's just about if the numbers work for TS.
I'll be happy if we get any striker/forward/goal-scorer tbh. Stockton remains the one I'd love us to get, but I'd be fine with us having McKirdy.
It might help everybody if Mac moves on, a modest fee would be a welcome bonus.
yes he may want to play his own music at half time etc perhaps it boosts his ego but for me he took over our
club and bailed us out weeks or days before administration, he has sunk money into the club both on and off
the pitch, it may not be as much as some people may like but that is tough, as far as I am concerned he rescued our club away from scumbags and as long as he has CAFCs best interests at heart he has my backing.
Paul Benson cost us a fee, even Josh Davison apparently went for a fee. And anyone out of contract has surely been snapped up by now.
That said while I can see a fee being paid for the right player I'd still say a loan is the most likely option.
The only way I can see us getting a striker significantly better/more suited than Stockley is buying one or getting, and keeping Aneke fit. I can't see either happening.
We will end up playing like Brazil in 82, with our very own Serginho. That's one for the kids!
Will we able to have a temporary loan keeper given the unique circumstances?
I feel sure a Premiership club would be happy to loan us a keeper knowing that they would get at least two league matches as well as FA Cup and JPT first team games.