As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
Although I agree with you, being better than last season is a pretty low bar to compare against.
I'm fearing that for want of a decent striker a top 6 spot could be lost. Oh well.....
Doesn't really matter how low the bar is, it is an improvement on last season, can't do any better than that,..can you, and the window still has some time to go, so regarding all this "all hope is lost stuff" save it for then and if we have not added strength to the front line, you will no doubt end up with some support for your pessimism...
Reading posts on here since 5pm yesterday I think there is a load of support for pessimism. But to me its not new, I've been saying it since June.
We let Washington go & havent seemed to look for a replacement. We then let Davison go on the basis that we have Leaburn waiting in the wings. 3 matches into the season & people are suddenly worried where the goals are going to come from. Not news to me. I even remarked on the preview thread that we are currently going into games with just 2 strikers & it would only take an injury or suspension to Stockley for Leaburn to be our one & only front man. Well be blowed - Stockley had to play on Saturday whilst " under the weather" because, surprise surprise, we really had no other choice.
I know I get a lot of stick on here & I take no pleasure out of saying this....I was right last season & I've been proved right again this season. A striker should have been our no 1 priority, esp once we let Washington go. Now people are saying that we must get one in before deadline day (18 days away). Don't you think the price will be higher now than it would have been in June ? Because of that TS wont be going out spending money on one. Hence we wont buy one & best we will do is a loanee on deadline day. And I bet you it wont be an experience pro with a history or scoring goals in this division. Can anyone tell me when the last time we brought in a striker on loan that scored more than a handful of goals ?
Just to put some balance to the anti TS comments, I think he has had a cracking summer.
If Carlsberg did owners it would be TS. We have got ourselves a 1st class manager who is getting his ideas across to a much younger and dynamic team of players and we are playing some very good football. The transfer window is still open and I am sure that Martin and Steve are pulling all the stops out to bring in one or two more players in before it shuts, and I am confident that we will bring in another striker that every Charlton supporter in the world believes we should. The best are always last in.
Can someone go back and check who was slating Washington's ability as last season went on and cross reference if they're the same saying Washington going was a mistake?
Not true. We all have lives outside of supporting our club but nothing wrong with being greedy and wanting the best on that side too.
I agree Charlton doesn't matter above the important things but I think the owner is clueless and that seems to not be an acceptable view for some on here. Believe me I am probably happier than most. Retired, financially secure, happily married, son doing well at Uni. I don't need pyschiatric advice which amounts to laying off Sandgaard's many faults and the risks I think it poses for our club in the longer term.
If I could be bullied I think that is going on here but I don't give a shit about some poster's views so it isn't possible to shout me down for talking as I see it because you don't want it to be true, whilst there are of course many I respect even when we disagree.
Like you and everyone else on here mate we all love the club and you like everyone else are deserving your opinion. But I honestly dont get the so anti TS thing. Yes he is a bit of a crackpot but in ownership terms imo he is streets ahead of what we have had for years! Surely you can see the change so far on the pitch ? We are trying to play attractive football with a gameplan, I havent seen that myself for ages. We all know we would like a few things done differently like a striker already through the door, a CEO in place to name but 2 but if both those things had happened we would be arguing that it's the wrong striker and the wrong CEO 😂 I'm in the support the club camp and that includes the owner he doesnt get everything right but I do think he wants the best for the club, how long since we have had an owner we could say that about?? Recruitment last year dire ! Recruitment tthiis year alot better ? He is learning and hopefully will get it right. For me I want to watch us play decent football if that means another year in league one building then fair enough ( I actually think we have a great chance this year ) my main priority this season was not to play the shite we had for the last 2
I can agree with almost all of this, with just a couple of minor exceptions, but it’s a transfer rumours thread, so I’ll leave it now.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
Although I agree with you, being better than last season is a pretty low bar to compare against.
I'm fearing that for want of a decent striker a top 6 spot could be lost. Oh well.....
Doesn't really matter how low the bar is, it is an improvement on last season, can't do any better than that,..can you, and the window still has some time to go, so regarding all this "all hope is lost stuff" save it for then and if we have not added strength to the front line, you will no doubt end up with some support for your pessimism...
Reading posts on here since 5pm yesterday I think there is a load of support for pessimism. But to me its nit new, I've been saying it since June.
We let Washington go & havent seemed to look for a replacement. We then let Davison go on the basis that we have Leaburn waiting in the wings. 3 matches into the season & people are suddenly worried where the goals are going to come from. Not news to me. I even remarked on the preview thread that we are currently going into games with just 2 strikers & it would only take an injury or suspension to Stockley for Leaburn to be our one & only front man. Well be blowed - Stockley had to play on Saturday whilst " under the weather" because, surprise surprise, we really had no other choice.
I know I get a lot of stick on here & I take no pleasure out of saying this....I was right last season & I've been proved right again this season. A striker should have been our no 1 priority, esp once we let Washington go.
Yep, can't argue with that, and of course we should never have let Washington go, did you see the goal he scored yesterday, we are crying out for that kind of finisher I know, and I am sure the club are trying to right that wrong and get someone who is a proven goalscorer in, but the top six spot ain't lost yet is it..let's see where we are at the closing of the window, one thing is obvious Stockley ain't the answer to all our prayers that's for sure...
@Redrobo I'm not sure he is in the Carlsberg bracket 😂 but I 100% agree we have had a great window so far and also Garner is refreshing. You make and interesting point about the recruitment team working hard and I thought yes actually so far they have done a great job. Makes you wonder how much shit TS would be getting for having his son involved with Gallen if the signing weren't looking as good. Although it doesnt suit the narrative it would be good to see the complainers acknowledge they have done ok so far this year
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
Of course I did call out, admittedly different issues, with Southall when a lot of you lot were still cheering him and blowing smoke up his arse. I love Charlton like the rest of you and have my opinions right or wrong.
And no-one is questioning that or your right to have those opinions. Merely saying that there are probably better, healthier options available to you right now because you don't seem to be in a very good place right now.
Speaking as someone who has never met you in person and wouldn't know if I saw you in the street, but if you were my friend or even just someone I knew I'd be recommending the same thing.
I am not depressed at all. I have a good life. I am specifically depressed about the state of my football club.
Weirdly I'm not depressed at all about the state of our club. This is the least depressed I've felt about our future in many a season.
We have some cracking youth players getting signed up, a nearly full squad of first teamers, a manager that is a breath of fresh air and most importantly an owner, inexperienced as he is, that actually wants us to do well and cares about us doing well. I'll take TSs mistakes so far on the chin quite frankly as I feel they are mistakes made in good faith.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
Any transfer rumours from yesterday? Did many fans speak to the Sandgaard’s who were sitting in with the fans yesterday?
That did make me laugh when I heard he did that !!!
There itself is all the proof anyone needs that the bloke is a loon 😂
You tell me how many football clubs owners are crazy enough to sit in with the fans ? Just imagine how much grief he would get if we played like we did in the 1st half against Derby.
I would like a fiver for everytime someone asked him if we are buying a striker 😂😂😂
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
I think it's a very easy mistake to make, if you don't have the on ground Intel.
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
I think it's a very easy mistake to make, if you don't have the on ground Intel.
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
I think it's a very easy mistake to make, if you don't have the on ground Intel.
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
But that should not stop you trying.
In my view there are two ways you can go - offer people a good deal so that more are encouraged to come or ratchet up the prices and get as much money as you can from those who are already committed. A case can be made for either approach, but not both at the same time.
The problem with Sandgaard’s approach, at least as far as the match tickets are concerned, is that he’s gone for Cakeism.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
I think it's a very easy mistake to make, if you don't have the on ground Intel.
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
But that should not stop you trying.
Of course it shouldn't stop you trying but you shouldn't build your business model on Jam tomorrow.
It's the pragmatic little things that have cost him a lot of money. Buy a center back in January 2021 and half the problems might have gone away.
Of course that wouldn't have guaranteed us promotion but it might have helped. It would have almost certainly have also help the start of the next season.
The awful transfer policies (there have been many) have set the club back years. Now it's a two season project when two years ago it was a one year project.
Now of course I will add the caveat that it's his money and he can choose to spend it as he wishes but by spending it baldy, at the wrong time, it has cost him a lot, my fag packet maths about £10 million, more than it could have done.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
I think it's a very easy mistake to make, if you don't have the on ground Intel.
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
But that should not stop you trying.
In my view there are two ways you can go - offer people a good deal so that more are encouraged to come or ratchet up the prices and get as much money as you can from those who are already committed. A case can be made for either approach, but not both at the same time.
The problem with Sandgaard’s approach, at least as far as the match tickets are concerned, is that he’s gone for Cakeism.
I do think it is a very difficult balance to get right, and there is a risk in lowering prices if you then don’t get an increase in numbers attending. But surely you are not suggesting that there is no point in trying to do anything? I remember fans saying the same thing with the target 10,000 campaign and that it was an unrealistic target. That target looks ridiculously low now.
Who knows what the Club and fans could achieve together, but what I do know is that if you don’t try you definitely won’t improve attendance.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
Happy to bow to your experience on the numbers Airman. I wasn’t sure if an average yield of £20 per ticket would be right given there might be a high proportion of juniors/concessions etc but assumed a reasonable percentage of revenue from bars and retail might go to the club. However, from what you are saying that isn’t hugely significant. But I think my general point stands that it isn’t going to be easy for TS to halve the current losses of £8M per annum, let along break even until we start moving back up the leagues and get bigger gates, increased tv revenues etc. Obviously not rocket science. But difficult to see how he does it without a bigger level of investment in playing staff than he is either willing or able to do. We could be in League 1 for some years.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
I think it's a very easy mistake to make, if you don't have the on ground Intel.
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
But that should not stop you trying.
In my view there are two ways you can go - offer people a good deal so that more are encouraged to come or ratchet up the prices and get as much money as you can from those who are already committed. A case can be made for either approach, but not both at the same time.
The problem with Sandgaard’s approach, at least as far as the match tickets are concerned, is that he’s gone for Cakeism.
I do think it is a very difficult balance to get right, and there is a risk in lowering prices if you then don’t get an increase in numbers attending. But surely you are not suggesting that there is no point in trying to do anything? I remember fans saying the same thing with the target 10,000 campaign and that it was an unrealistic target. That target looks ridiculously low now.
Who knows what the Club and fans could achieve together, but what I do know is that if you don’t try you definitely won’t improve attendance.
Different times, different world. I don’t think our current gates are that bad for Charlton in L1 by historical standards. Of course you should try to maximise revenue one way or the other, but what I don’t see here is a credible plan to do either. In fact, I see a pricing structure that mitigates against increasing crowds, accompanied by contradictory rhetoric.
We spent a lot of time working up business cases around pricing in the past because every board of directors contained people who couldn’t see beyond higher prices equals more revenue or thought that if they were putting their spare cash into the club that fans should expect to do so too. Problem is, a lot of people either didn’t have “spare cash” or weren’t that bothered.
In short, I don’t believe TS has a business case for the pricing which would stand up to critical examination - but of course in his structure it won’t get any. That doesn’t make him a bad man but it does mean his budgets will be way off, and that ultimately impinges on the players we sign.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
Happy to bow to your experience on the numbers Airman. I wasn’t sure if an average yield of £20 per ticket would be right given there might be a high proportion of juniors/concessions etc but assumed a reasonable percentage of revenue from bars and retail might go to the club. However, from what you are saying that isn’t hugely significant. But I think my general point stands that it isn’t going to be easy for TS to halve the current losses of £8M per annum, let along break even until we start moving back up the leagues and get bigger gates, increased tv revenues etc. Obviously not rocket science. But difficult to see how he does it without a bigger level of investment in playing staff than he is either willing or able to do. We could be in League 1 for some years.
I believe they have been getting 18% from the kiosks, but even if the average spend is £3 that’s only 54p per spectator. Remember that most people buy nothing, dragging down the average.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I would call TS my straw. I don't hate him and I think a case could be made that he is the best owner we have had in years, but look at what we have had. I am a camel and he is the straw that has broken my back. Others may have been haystacks, but I have been watching us in this shit league too long and that isn't Sandgaards fault although it is on him to get us out of it and I don't think he will. I want him to but I can't lie or convince myself otherwise.
I won't protest and I will hope something changes but I am a bit depressed about it to be honest and because he is the straw, my patience levels are close to zero.
Should probably take a break if the club's making you depressed. You seem like you're getting all Bowyer-y again and that's surely a sign to give yourself some time off
Can someone go back and check who was slating Washington's ability as last season went on and cross reference if they're the same saying Washington going was a mistake?
100%
It’s just as bad as Twitter on Tuesday and Twitter on Saturday
People just like to be heard, regardless of the substance
Of course I did call out, admittedly different issues, with Southall when a lot of you lot were still cheering him and blowing smoke up his arse. I love Charlton like the rest of you and have my opinions right or wrong.
Absolutely fair comment, as were your earlier ones. Unfortunately there are now so many posters on here who see any expression of doubt about TS as an act of treason that discussion just gets shut down.
There’s plenty of criticism, and I don’t think it gets shut or shouted down unless it’s overly personal.
My feelings about Sandgaard are similar to my feelings about Stockley. He’s quite a good owner in the same way that Stockley is quite a good striker. Means well, decent fella, and he’s probably heading in the right direction (like Stockley, boom boom), but whether or not he has the wherewithal to get us promoted is a different matter.
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
I think it's a very easy mistake to make, if you don't have the on ground Intel.
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
But that should not stop you trying.
In my view there are two ways you can go - offer people a good deal so that more are encouraged to come or ratchet up the prices and get as much money as you can from those who are already committed. A case can be made for either approach, but not both at the same time.
The problem with Sandgaard’s approach, at least as far as the match tickets are concerned, is that he’s gone for Cakeism.
I do think it is a very difficult balance to get right, and there is a risk in lowering prices if you then don’t get an increase in numbers attending. But surely you are not suggesting that there is no point in trying to do anything? I remember fans saying the same thing with the target 10,000 campaign and that it was an unrealistic target. That target looks ridiculously low now.
Who knows what the Club and fans could achieve together, but what I do know is that if you don’t try you definitely won’t improve attendance.
We always seem to charge £10 or £15 for cup games (and you get ‘footy for a fiver’ matches). What’s wrong with making them £12 or £13? Some people were literally put off going to the QPR match because of the £15 price tag. So if £10 is deemed too cheap, try £12 or £13?
As I thought yesterday - us not buying a forward to replace Washington cost us a victory. That is on TS.
Why are people so wanting to hate this man, who as I can see it, is trying to run this club so that we never have to go through what we went through just before he arrived again.
He isn’t perfect but continuous blaming and hating on him must get so depressing for people.
They’ve said they have to balance the books. We’re looking so much better already than last year.
I certainly don’t hate him. Am grateful to him for saving the club. But I suspect if he wants to balance the books, the team will not be successful (my definition of success being promotion) any time soon.
Apparently he wants to reduce annual losses by £4M, £1M through cost efficiencies and £2-3M through increased revenue. Roughly speaking that equates to ~ another £100K per game, say another 4-5,000 spectators per game. Great that the style of play appears more attractive than last season but results is what will help improve gates and maybe that requires more investment on additional striking options than TS is willing to pay.
Bit more than that. It's highly unlikely that the average ticket yield is £20 net, given that a good 40-45% are concessions and the majority of those are juniors. Even if you factor in what people spend on average, it's relatively minor as a net benefit (and actual revenue from the kiosks, bars and retail goes elsewhere with the club only getting a royalty). I would think you need about 7,000 extra paying fans every game to add £2.3m in ticket revenue - roughly speaking that means doubling (or for some games trebling) the home match sales. That isn't happening any time soon.
I think that this is TS' fundamental problem on terms of his goals, aspirations etc. He's probably run all the maths and done the sums and figured out that ON PAPER you can get a lot more money out than he currently is.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
I think it's a very easy mistake to make, if you don't have the on ground Intel.
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
But that should not stop you trying.
In my view there are two ways you can go - offer people a good deal so that more are encouraged to come or ratchet up the prices and get as much money as you can from those who are already committed. A case can be made for either approach, but not both at the same time.
The problem with Sandgaard’s approach, at least as far as the match tickets are concerned, is that he’s gone for Cakeism.
I do think it is a very difficult balance to get right, and there is a risk in lowering prices if you then don’t get an increase in numbers attending. But surely you are not suggesting that there is no point in trying to do anything? I remember fans saying the same thing with the target 10,000 campaign and that it was an unrealistic target. That target looks ridiculously low now.
Who knows what the Club and fans could achieve together, but what I do know is that if you don’t try you definitely won’t improve attendance.
We always seem to charge £10 or £15 for cup games (and you get ‘footy for a fiver’ matches). What’s wrong with making them £12 or £13? Some people were literally put off going to the QPR match because of the £15 price tag. So if £10 is deemed too cheap, try £12 or £13?
I wasn’t put off the QPR game because it was £15. I was put off because for as long as I can remember we haven’t taken cup matches seriously, putting out severely weakened teams, putting in severely sub standard performances. If the manager doesn’t take it seriously then neither will the players. That is unfair on Garner but he, the team, and the ultimately the Club suffered as a result.
Can someone go back and check who was slating Washington's ability as last season went on and cross reference if they're the same saying Washington going was a mistake?
100%
It’s just as bad as Twitter on Tuesday and Twitter on Saturday
People just like to be heard, regardless of the substance
It’s a much discussed subject….he was a great player in a number of ways, I liked him as a matter of fact, but his missed opportunities ratios were sadly just not good enough. As for his one on ones with the keeper…..the less said the better. He simply wasn’t a natural goal scorer……end of……sadly.
Any transfer rumours from yesterday? Did many fans speak to the Sandgaard’s who were sitting in with the fans yesterday?
That did make me laugh when I heard he did that !!!
There itself is all the proof anyone needs that the bloke is a loon 😂
You tell me how many football clubs owners are crazy enough to sit in with the fans ? Just imagine how much grief he would get if we played like we did in the 1st half against Derby.
I would like a fiver for everytime someone asked him if we are buying a striker 😂😂😂
Comments
We let Washington go & havent seemed to look for a replacement. We then let Davison go on the basis that we have Leaburn waiting in the wings. 3 matches into the season & people are suddenly worried where the goals are going to come from. Not news to me. I even remarked on the preview thread that we are currently going into games with just 2 strikers & it would only take an injury or suspension to Stockley for Leaburn to be our one & only front man. Well be blowed - Stockley had to play on Saturday whilst " under the weather" because, surprise surprise, we really had no other choice.
I know I get a lot of stick on here & I take no pleasure out of saying this....I was right last season & I've been proved right again this season. A striker should have been our no 1 priority, esp once we let Washington go. Now people are saying that we must get one in before deadline day (18 days away). Don't you think the price will be higher now than it would have been in June ? Because of that TS wont be going out spending money on one. Hence we wont buy one & best we will do is a loanee on deadline day. And I bet you it wont be an experience pro with a history or scoring goals in this division. Can anyone tell me when the last time we brought in a striker on loan that scored more than a handful of goals ?
We have got ourselves a 1st class manager who is getting his ideas across to a much younger and dynamic team of players and we are playing some very good football.
The transfer window is still open and I am sure that Martin and Steve are pulling all the stops out to bring in one or two more players in before it shuts, and I am confident that we will bring in another striker that every Charlton supporter in the world believes we should.
The best are always last in.
Weirdly I'm not depressed at all about the state of our club. This is the least depressed I've felt about our future in many a season.
We have some cracking youth players getting signed up, a nearly full squad of first teamers, a manager that is a breath of fresh air and most importantly an owner, inexperienced as he is, that actually wants us to do well and cares about us doing well. I'll take TSs mistakes so far on the chin quite frankly as I feel they are mistakes made in good faith.
BUT he's either too stubborn or naive/idealistic/stupid (delete as you feel accurate) about turning those sums into reality. He's sure that he can succeed where a lot of others have not and will somehow find the football equivalent of the magic money tree. Chances are that he is very wrong on that.
There itself is all the proof anyone needs that the bloke is a loon 😂
You tell me how many football clubs owners are crazy enough to sit in with the fans ? Just imagine how much grief he would get if we played like we did in the 1st half against Derby.
I would like a fiver for everytime someone asked him if we are buying a striker 😂😂😂
Bloke has some balls you have to give him that
Can Charlton sell 20,000 tickets for almost every home game of the season. Of course they can.
We sell about 13ish?
7,000 x times £10 profit per ticket x 25ish home games. Equals nearly £2 million. Simple isn't it.
It's like buying a DVD player manufacturer and saying in 2010 we sold a million players. Why did we only sell 1 last year? Obviously didn't try hard enough.
Yes that's being flippant and over the top but I remember reading an article/interview (maybe someone could dig it out) about how Thomas turned round his company by chasing debt that people advised him he should write off. He increased the resource and targeted management of the recovery team and clawed back millions that people had told him he wouldn't get back.
Unless you actually pay people to turn up you won't get 20,000 in the valley, on a bi weekly basis, in league 1. Full stop.
It's the pragmatic little things that have cost him a lot of money. Buy a center back in January 2021 and half the problems might have gone away.
Of course that wouldn't have guaranteed us promotion but it might have helped. It would have almost certainly have also help the start of the next season.
The awful transfer policies (there have been many) have set the club back years. Now it's a two season project when two years ago it was a one year project.
Now of course I will add the caveat that it's his money and he can choose to spend it as he wishes but by spending it baldy, at the wrong time, it has cost him a lot, my fag packet maths about £10 million, more than it could have done.
Who knows what the Club and fans could achieve together, but what I do know is that if you don’t try you definitely won’t improve attendance.
In short, I don’t believe TS has a business case for the pricing which would stand up to critical examination - but of course in his structure it won’t get any. That doesn’t make him a bad man but it does mean his budgets will be way off, and that ultimately impinges on the players we sign.
People just like to be heard, regardless of the substance
As for his one on ones with the keeper…..the less said the better.
He simply wasn’t a natural goal scorer……end of……sadly.