18 pages in and still not a sensible suggestion for a new manager should jj go
What difference would that make? If I come up with a "sensible suggestion" will TS act upon it? It's his call. You could argue that it lends weight to somebody's opinion if they include a "solution" as well as a critique. At the end of the day we are a bunch of frustrated fans who don't want to let shit go unchallenged
People got short memories… I am not a Powell fan and he deserved the sack when he got it but … his first season mirrors Jackson fans calling for him to be sacked etc etc .. looked what happened the season after
People got short memories… I am not a Powell fan and he deserved the sack when he got it but … his first season mirrors Jackson fans calling for him to be sacked etc etc .. looked what happened the season after
I’ve got a memory like an elephant and I remember exactly what happened in Powell’s first 23 league games (6 wins). We all know what happened next.
People got short memories… I am not a Powell fan and he deserved the sack when he got it but … his first season mirrors Jackson fans calling for him to be sacked etc etc .. looked what happened the season after
Because of the coincidental similarities people also conveniently over look the massive differences.
We have been out managed frequently this season by teams with lesser (theoretically) players. If Jackson thinks his problems will be over with even more random signings I think he is wrong. Jackson has to work harder and better himself, other managers can do it, can he? If the team for Ipswich was properly managed and prepared in the eyes of Jackson we are in trouble. We were essentially thrashed out of sight by a team that hardly had to raise sweat. For all the praise Jackson might heap on our fans, it is about time he won us points. I have very fragile faith in Jackson at the moment, I would like him to approach the future by never making any excuses, or laying any blame anywhere, he can get the praise for points won, but it is absolutely down to him if we lose points, not down to self pity about being in disgrace with fortune and mens eyes. I saw the interview with Neil Harris on Quest last night, and the blast of directness and honesty was impressive, Jackson could learn from that.
It shows Jackson can’t truly be judged on this season. This squad is nowhere near top 6 quality whoever the manager is.
I’d like to see what Jackson could do but part of me feels we might benefit more from a good coach who is more suited to working with what he’s given, someone like Michael Beale.
Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
Just don't know how anyone who's watched us be consistently carved open down the middle and exposed out wide can think Jackson can do anything near what we need to get promoted next season. Cut the sentimental feeling out of it and not a single fan would think the football we play under him is acceptable.
Those wins against Sunderland and Ipswich are quickly becoming what the Nottingham Forest match was for Bowyer
It shows Jackson can’t truly be judged on this season. This squad is nowhere near top 6 quality whoever the manager is.
I’d like to see what Jackson could do but part of me feels we might benefit more from a good coach who is more suited to working with what he’s given, someone like Michael Beale.
It don't really think it says whether you can, or can't, judge Jackson on this season.
I don't think any manager Jackson or Adkins or Jackson from the start, a n other from the start or from when Adkins got sacked etc etc would have got this squad above Ipswich or below Morecambe. That's a combination of things the manager has had little or no control over.
Saying that, is there a game since he was cartaker we have played really well? I don't mean battling wins against the likes of Wimbledon and Cambridge.
It's the manner of the defeats that's the question mark, the number of unacceptable performances, for me.
There is absolutely no point what so ever in just sacking Jackson and plugging in someone else into his job.
It's as clear as day what needs to happen in the summer, it was last summer as well. From a higher starting point. If that doesn't happen it doesn't matter who the manager is.
I think we are failing due to TS having inherited a bargain basement squad which he is either not willing nor able to fund overhauling to the levels required to become a dominant force. Point one - too many also rans, not enough quality. Last season’s ‘closer’ proximity to the play offs finish gave TS a false impression of what was required.
Secondly, the summer transfer window was managed poorly. Too many players came in too late to settle in, while some players way way past their best or raw talent had to do to fill in. Adkins, regardless of all of the sun shining, birds singing commentary was handed a double sided shitty stick and if what I have read on here re the manager not being directly involved or not wanting one or more players is an insight I hope is not true, as that sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Onto JJ, I think he established that he had neither a back centre half pairing, nor a midfield duo he could trust in a 4-4-2. Immobile natural positional fit fullbacks to rely upon too, so plumped for 3-1-4-2 in the hope having 3 at the back would be enough to keep the clean sheets while Stockley and Washington would lead the goal return. Bottom line is the loan season 2 for Famewo ended up being poor, Pearce has been a great servant, but overly relied upon, Lavelle has shown some encouraging performances but too few thus far, Innis continues to have fitness issues, some frayed decision making wiring in his head (which leads to further game absence), Gunter (let’s not go there) and only Clare, who is not a CB has had a real go at trying to come out of this season with some credit, using his athleticism.
I could go on for each department, but point being, JJ, despite the squad he has inherited and perhaps continues to ‘inherit’ thanks to a ‘black box’, has got us up to mid table from being second to bottom and had two decent run of firm spells and one pretty dire one when our squad was very much depleted.
If the right exits and right incomings to strengthen us come early, combined with JJ’s input transpire to provide strength in depth, I have a feeling (based on form) that JJ will bring 3/3 spells of good form rather than the two next season and we will be challenging.
If some of the conditions above are not met, I don’t care whether Mourinho, Klopp, Ferguson or Wenger were here, they too would have a hand tied behind their back and not deliver what us fans all want.
While I wanted us promoted this season, I will thank JJ tonight for saving us from an incredibly embarrassing drop into League 2, which at one point this season, I felt was a realistic possibility. Size of club matters not, others have been through the same trap door. Another season, but with the right conditions please TS…
Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?
Scoham said: but then I would imagine the forest fans were saying the same about there players, players don't just become crap over night, it's how there managed, where there positioned, they way they train, and I'm sorry to say these players look like that haven't trained for a game for ages, they just look like aload of lost school boys not knowing what there doing, just remember Jackson was our defender coach and now we ship goals for fun
Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?
but then I would imagine the forest fans were saying the same about there players, players don't just become crap over night, it's how there managed, where there positioned, they way they train, and I'm sorry to say these players look like that haven't trained for a game for ages, they just look like aload of lost school boys not knowing what there doing, just remember Jackson was our defender coach and now we ship goals for fun
but then I would imagine the forest fans were saying the same about there players, players don't just become crap over night, it's how there managed, where there positioned, they way they train, and I'm sorry to say these players look like that haven't trained for a game for ages, they just look like aload of lost school boys not knowing what there doing, just remember Jackson was our defender coach and now we ship goals for fun
In that example Forest fans were wrong. That doesn't mean our squad can be coached well to become a promotion quality squad. Would you prefer a significant squad rebuild in the summer with Jackson as manager or a new manager who's a great coach keeping this squad together with minimal signings?
Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?
But why is Gilbey so bad? POTY in 2018/19 in a L2 promotion season and then again the following season in L1. That's exactly the kind of player we all say we should be looking for. Why does Famewo suddenly look like he's never seen a ball before? Why hasn't Fraser influenced a single match? Should we just stop getting players from MK Dons? Did Llera curse us? Why could Powell turn a player Sheff Weds fans laughed out of the building into a Championship colossus, and a keeper Reading didn't want into a borderline Premier League keeper? Isn't the truth of our season somewhere in the middle?
but then I would imagine the forest fans were saying the same about there players, players don't just become crap over night, it's how there managed, where there positioned, they way they train, and I'm sorry to say these players look like that haven't trained for a game for ages, they just look like aload of lost school boys not knowing what there doing, just remember Jackson was our defender coach and now we ship goals for fun
In that example Forest fans were wrong. That doesn't mean our squad can be coached well to become a promotion quality squad. Would you prefer a significant squad rebuild in the summer with Jackson as manager or a new manager who's a great coach keeping this squad together with minimal signings?
I would like a new man to take us forward, who's tactically aware off what he is doing, and when things are going wrong change them, I don't see that in Jackson, I've always been told learn from your mistakes and Jackson hasn't week in week out it's the same mistakes and it's not acceptable
I would essentially want the latter. Release what isn’t ours and make best use of what remains with one or two signings if they’re any good. You would really have to go some to prepare a team as badly as yesterday. Understandably Jackson might believe his work has been good enough and has no especial inclination to change. I think if so he is wrong..
Enough is enough for me. I can't see us getting promoted next season with Jackson in charge. He simply can't motivate his players and tactically he looks clueless. His obsession with 3-5-2 has cost us a shed load of points this season and there is no excuse for the 'bothered/can't be bothered' second-half of the season. We need the biggest clearout we can afford and I would put my money on someone else. It's too important a role to get wrong for yet another season.
For what it's worth, my view is that Jackson went with 352 because it's the best formation for the players in his squad. Washington and Stockley have to play together, and the 433 didn't work at all for us, cost us our season.
Yesterday only JFC turned up. It was a shameful end of season nothing on it performance, shameful because nearly 2000 fans travelled and we deserved at least some effort.
We can't play with 2 centre halves because we have no pace at the back, and Clare's absence yesterday showed that up with endless balls between the centre halves and the wing backs.
If the formation is going to change and we're going to get the best out of our wingers - and DJ and CBT are very decent going forward - we need a proper midfield. JFC and Dobson might be it, but you can't afford Gilbey showing up for 10 minutes a game, or Morgan putting 2 decent balls in out of 10 a game.
I would stick with Jacko, but we need pace at the back, we need the best central midfielder in the division.
Personally I'd aim for 442, perhaps a diamond, or 4312, but we'd need to bring in two quick full backs and a dominant reliable centre half with a bit of pace about him. We'd need a mobile and creative centre mid, perhaps one out and out winger or a decent number 10, and a quick striker who has goals about him.
When I think back to the play off winning team, we had Bauer and Djiksteel offering pace at the back, and Purrington was mobile enough to get up and down the pitch too. We had a much stronger set of players in midfield.
I'd ditch Gilbey and Morgan, I'd lose Innis and Pearce, probably Matthews as well. I'd not look to retain any of the loans.
But I do believe Jacko has enough to be successful if he's backed and not hamstrung by silly loans foistered upon him. Give him and Gallen their heads, get the squad he wants, and then judge him. This season's squad was far from good enough, notwithstanding that the injuries to our strikers mid-season put paid to any chance of finishing higher than we did. His points per game ratio would have us on 82 points - one place outside the play offs - and that's with an inadequate squad built by an experienced manager who could only get 6 points in 13 games from them.
Cpntracts run until the end of June and players go on holiday.
Hard to see any signings happening before July.
Depends if there are any players who are decent enough that are going to be out of contract at other clubs. Some clubs actually make these signings in May or June but don't announce them straight away. If we get one or 2, and one of them is a coup, we need to announce it as a statement of intent. The big problem is actually getting them, and my worry is have we actually started diligence
Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?
But why is Gilbey so bad? POTY in 2018/19 in a L2 promotion season and then again the following season in L1. That's exactly the kind of player we all say we should be looking for. Why does Famewo suddenly look like he's never seen a ball before? Why hasn't Fraser influenced a single match? Should we just stop getting players from MK Dons? Did Llera curse us? Why could Powell turn a player Sheff Weds fans laughed out of the building into a Championship colossus, and a keeper Reading didn't want into a borderline Premier League keeper? Isn't the truth of our season somewhere in the middle?
That's exactly my point. I'm saying this is a mid table squad who have finished roughly where you'd expect - whether that's 9th or 14th it makes no real difference, it's failure either way. Better coaching alone won't solve our problems, and simply signing better players won't be enough either.
We lost Aneke, Maatsen, JFC, Millar and Amos last summer and didn't properly replace them. There's no doubt we need better players, but there are some here who could be part of a promotion squad.
Powell signed Morrison and Hamer in his first summer window. Morrison had already had a year and a half of Championship football for Leicester, Powell knew he was capable and took advantage when his move to Sheff Wed didn't work out. Hamer was proven out on loan and was a player on the up.
You could spin it the other way with Powell - why couldn't he get more from Semedo and Llera who went on to be promoted with Sheff Wed? Could say that's a better comparison of where we are with players like Gilbey and Famewo.
Whatever happens we need a squad that looks very different next season. Get our recruitment right and players like Gilbey, Morgan etc may benefit too, whoever the manager is.
Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?
But why is Gilbey so bad? POTY in 2018/19 in a L2 promotion season and then again the following season in L1. That's exactly the kind of player we all say we should be looking for. Why does Famewo suddenly look like he's never seen a ball before? Why hasn't Fraser influenced a single match? Should we just stop getting players from MK Dons? Did Llera curse us? Why could Powell turn a player Sheff Weds fans laughed out of the building into a Championship colossus, and a keeper Reading didn't want into a borderline Premier League keeper? Isn't the truth of our season somewhere in the middle?
It could reasonably be argued that Dobson was a laughing stock at Sunderland and under Jackson - not Adkins - he's been just brilliant.
For me, you look at the squad we went up with last time - and they only reached the play offs - and we're well well short of that. That's what we should be aiming for in the window.
Appalling final game of the season. Still attempting to play this laughable 3-5-2 formation without the personnel to do so. What message does this send to the younger players (Kanu and Co) when Jackson sticks with his favourites who have no heart and no guts? Three donkeys in defence and Morgan and Gilbey by-passed in midfield. Created very little with no pace upfront. Embarrassed for those who travelled. We have to make a lot of changes to really improve next season and I can't see Sandgaard spending the money or Jackson the balls to do it.
If the nucleus of this side is still here in August, I won't be wasting more money on them.
What formation would you play out of interest?
4-4-2
A flat 4-4-2?
one of my friends has been a youth coach for a few years now and this year has broken through into the mens game at non league level (higher but not highest levels). I was talking to him about 4-4-2 and he said it isn't mentioned anymore when doing coaching badges as the midfield gets overran. They still teach it at youth level though
Any formation would be better than a 3-5-2 we simply can't play with this squad.
Comments
If I come up with a "sensible suggestion" will TS act upon it? It's his call.
You could argue that it lends weight to somebody's opinion if they include a "solution" as well as a critique.
At the end of the day we are a bunch of frustrated fans who don't want to let shit go unchallenged
Will that happen again. Unlikely in my view
If Jackson thinks his problems will be over with even more random signings I think he is wrong.
Jackson has to work harder and better himself, other managers can do it, can he?
If the team for Ipswich was properly managed and prepared in the eyes of Jackson we are in trouble. We were essentially thrashed out of sight by a team that hardly had to raise sweat.
For all the praise Jackson might heap on our fans, it is about time he won us points.
I have very fragile faith in Jackson at the moment, I would like him to approach the future by never making any excuses, or laying any blame anywhere, he can get the praise for points won, but it is absolutely down to him if we lose points, not down to self pity about being in disgrace with fortune and mens eyes.
I saw the interview with Neil Harris on Quest last night, and the blast of directness and honesty was impressive, Jackson could learn from that.
I’d like to see what Jackson could do but part of me feels we might benefit more from a good coach who is more suited to working with what he’s given, someone like Michael Beale.
Those wins against Sunderland and Ipswich are quickly becoming what the Nottingham Forest match was for Bowyer
I don't think any manager Jackson or Adkins or Jackson from the start, a n other from the start or from when Adkins got sacked etc etc would have got this squad above Ipswich or below Morecambe. That's a combination of things the manager has had little or no control over.
Saying that, is there a game since he was cartaker we have played really well? I don't mean battling wins against the likes of Wimbledon and Cambridge.
It's the manner of the defeats that's the question mark, the number of unacceptable performances, for me.
There is absolutely no point what so ever in just sacking Jackson and plugging in someone else into his job.
It's as clear as day what needs to happen in the summer, it was last summer as well. From a higher starting point. If that doesn't happen it doesn't matter who the manager is.
Secondly, the summer transfer window was managed poorly. Too many players came in too late to settle in, while some players way way past their best or raw talent had to do to fill in. Adkins, regardless of all of the sun shining, birds singing commentary was handed a double sided shitty stick and if what I have read on here re the manager not being directly involved or not wanting one or more players is an insight I hope is not true, as that sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Onto JJ, I think he established that he had neither a back centre half pairing, nor a midfield duo he could trust in a 4-4-2. Immobile natural positional fit fullbacks to rely upon too, so plumped for 3-1-4-2 in the hope having 3 at the back would be enough to keep the clean sheets while Stockley and Washington would lead the goal return. Bottom line is the loan season 2 for Famewo ended up being poor, Pearce has been a great servant, but overly relied upon, Lavelle has shown some encouraging performances but too few thus far, Innis continues to have fitness issues, some frayed decision making wiring in his head (which leads to further game absence), Gunter (let’s not go there) and only Clare, who is not a CB has had a real go at trying to come out of this season with some credit, using his athleticism.
If some of the conditions above are not met, I don’t care whether Mourinho, Klopp, Ferguson or Wenger were here, they too would have a hand tied behind their back and not deliver what us fans all want.
While I wanted us promoted this season, I will thank JJ tonight for saving us from an incredibly embarrassing drop into League 2, which at one point this season, I felt was a realistic possibility. Size of club matters not, others have been through the same trap door. Another season, but with the right conditions please TS…
After 15 years of poor ownership and bad decisions throughout the club, we need stability, not constant change.
Hard to see any signings happening before July.
Release what isn’t ours and make best use of what remains with one or two signings if they’re any good.
You would really have to go some to prepare a team as badly as yesterday.
Understandably Jackson might believe his work has been good enough and has no especial inclination to change.
I think if so he is wrong..
Yesterday only JFC turned up. It was a shameful end of season nothing on it performance, shameful because nearly 2000 fans travelled and we deserved at least some effort.
We can't play with 2 centre halves because we have no pace at the back, and Clare's absence yesterday showed that up with endless balls between the centre halves and the wing backs.
If the formation is going to change and we're going to get the best out of our wingers - and DJ and CBT are very decent going forward - we need a proper midfield. JFC and Dobson might be it, but you can't afford Gilbey showing up for 10 minutes a game, or Morgan putting 2 decent balls in out of 10 a game.
I would stick with Jacko, but we need pace at the back, we need the best central midfielder in the division.
Personally I'd aim for 442, perhaps a diamond, or 4312, but we'd need to bring in two quick full backs and a dominant reliable centre half with a bit of pace about him. We'd need a mobile and creative centre mid, perhaps one out and out winger or a decent number 10, and a quick striker who has goals about him.
When I think back to the play off winning team, we had Bauer and Djiksteel offering pace at the back, and Purrington was mobile enough to get up and down the pitch too. We had a much stronger set of players in midfield.
I'd ditch Gilbey and Morgan, I'd lose Innis and Pearce, probably Matthews as well. I'd not look to retain any of the loans.
But I do believe Jacko has enough to be successful if he's backed and not hamstrung by silly loans foistered upon him. Give him and Gallen their heads, get the squad he wants, and then judge him. This season's squad was far from good enough, notwithstanding that the injuries to our strikers mid-season put paid to any chance of finishing higher than we did. His points per game ratio would have us on 82 points - one place outside the play offs - and that's with an inadequate squad built by an experienced manager who could only get 6 points in 13 games from them.
First league game is 30 July.
We lost Aneke, Maatsen, JFC, Millar and Amos last summer and didn't properly replace them. There's no doubt we need better players, but there are some here who could be part of a promotion squad.
Powell signed Morrison and Hamer in his first summer window. Morrison had already had a year and a half of Championship football for Leicester, Powell knew he was capable and took advantage when his move to Sheff Wed didn't work out. Hamer was proven out on loan and was a player on the up.
You could spin it the other way with Powell - why couldn't he get more from Semedo and Llera who went on to be promoted with Sheff Wed? Could say that's a better comparison of where we are with players like Gilbey and Famewo.
Whatever happens we need a squad that looks very different next season. Get our recruitment right and players like Gilbey, Morgan etc may benefit too, whoever the manager is.
For me, you look at the squad we went up with last time - and they only reached the play offs - and we're well well short of that. That's what we should be aiming for in the window.
https://twitter.com/PcPresenter/status/1520406591605989377/video/1
ps If someone could embed this, it might be helpful