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Sorry but Jackson has to go.
Comments
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I’ll say it again. It’s not our job to suggest a new manager. How could we possibly. We don’t know who is or might be available or a budget plus no doubt a hundred other thing that are pertinent. If you’re demanding a name I’ll go with Pep. If the job became vacant there would be dozens of credible applicants. Sadly not Pep.Todds_right_hook said:18 pages in and still not a sensible suggestion for a new manager should jj go4 -
We did get beat by crap near the bottom but we also went unbeaten against Sunderland and Rotherham.Billericaydickie said:Sorry but Jackson definitely has to go!
For half a season now with Jackson in sole charge (since the away game at Plymouth) the week before Christmas, we have had nothing but sub standard embarrassing performances.
We have lost to a succession of teams, all in or around the relegation places.
Jackson’s body language says it all.
He looks like a beaten man. He doesn’t inspire the fan base and he certainly doesn’t inspire the players.
If Jackson is still in charge for the start of next season I fear that we will be served up another season of mediocre football, and another season stuck in League 1.0 -
Let’s not try and polish a turd mate, slight positives amongst a load of shite. We managed to lose 20 odd games against worse teams than those two aswell. Tells its own story.Todds_right_hook said:
We did get beat by crap near the bottom but we also went unbeaten against Sunderland and Rotherham.Billericaydickie said:Sorry but Jackson definitely has to go!
For half a season now with Jackson in sole charge (since the away game at Plymouth) the week before Christmas, we have had nothing but sub standard embarrassing performances.
We have lost to a succession of teams, all in or around the relegation places.
Jackson’s body language says it all.
He looks like a beaten man. He doesn’t inspire the fan base and he certainly doesn’t inspire the players.
If Jackson is still in charge for the start of next season I fear that we will be served up another season of mediocre football, and another season stuck in League 1.0 -
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
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I'm split as to whether or not JJ is the man for the job. Part of me is stuck on sentiment of his love & loyalty for the club, plus the fact he's inherited a shit-box of a squad. However, my biggest concern is his lack of tactical awareness and stubborness to try something different. Fair enough, he's adamant that 3-5-2 is the formation that best suits this squad, or simply his formation of choice, but to not have a plan B when it's evident (during a game) that things are simply not working. Too many times this season, we found ourselves going in at HT down by a couple of goals and being totally played off the park by teams that most of us would agree are inferior to us, yet everytime, he just sends them back out after the break, hoping the problem will just fix itself. I'm still trying to figure out if this is down to stubborness, or simply not having the nous to change it?
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Not really though is it? If Jackson has very little input into the summer transfers why should he be judged on that?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
If he had been the manager since Bowyer left we would have still finished well out of the play off places and very few people would be saying he should stay.
Why are we judging him purely on how well, or badly, someone else does something?
If Thomas and Martin fuck it up again does Jackson get the 23/24 season as well? Or do we sack him because that's what football clubs do?0 -
Any chance the players can have some of the drugs you're on mate?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.0 -
I think there has to be proof over a longer period of time than 33 games and one January window that we aren’t going anywhere, despite sufficient support from the ownership. I think your point comes back to, and to a certain extent I agree, if the players aren’t good enough it doesn’t matter who the manager is. If we have another summer mirroring the one just gone, I would be in favour of retaining Jacko with any kind of top half finish.Cafc43v3r said:
Not really though is it? If Jackson has very little input into the summer transfers why should he be judged on that?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
If he had been the manager since Bowyer left we would have still finished well out of the play off places and very few people would be saying he should stay.
Why are we judging him purely on how well, or badly, someone else does something?
If Thomas and Martin fuck it up again does Jackson get the 23/24 season as well? Or do we sack him because that's what football clubs do?
Yes the footballing style isn’t prime Barcelona but it’s never going to be in League One. In the CharltonTV studio last week, Yann described the football under Powell as ‘direct’ but it was still effective enough to win the league with 100+ points. Both Wigan and Rotherham got promoted with a direct style too. It’s just the nature of the league we’re in.
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So you can't judge on 33 games, what about 33 games into next season with different players? Is that still to soon? How comes Adkins got judged after 13 games then? Should have been good for at least another 20?Callumcafc said:
I think there has to be proof over a longer period of time than 33 games and one January window that we aren’t going anywhere, despite sufficient support from the ownership. I think your point comes back to, and to a certain extent I agree, if the players aren’t good enough it doesn’t matter who the manager is. If we have another summer mirroring the one just gone, I would be in favour if retaining Jacko with any kind of top half finish.Cafc43v3r said:
Not really though is it? If Jackson has very little input into the summer transfers why should he be judged on that?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
If he had been the manager since Bowyer left we would have still finished well out of the play off places and very few people would be saying he should stay.
Why are we judging him purely on how well, or badly, someone else does something?
If Thomas and Martin fuck it up again does Jackson get the 23/24 season as well? Or do we sack him because that's what football clubs do?
Yes the footballing style isn’t prime Barcelona but it’s never going to be in League One. In the CharltonTV studio last week, Yann described the football under Powell as ‘direct’ but it was still effective enough to win the league with 100+ points. Both Wigan and Rotherham got promoted with a direct style too. It’s just the nature of the league we’re in.
Of course it's direct,most teams are, Liverpool are direct, but we aren't even good at that. We confuse lumping it with direct. No one has a problem with direct, if you do it well.
I don't get this blind faith that this summer will be different because its a different manager when last summers issues weren't the fault of the manager. Of course you make allowances because its not Jackson's squad, but does anyone really believe it was Adkins's either?2 -
How long was Adkins in charge for?Callumcafc said:
I think there has to be proof over a longer period of time than 33 games and one January window that we aren’t going anywhere, despite sufficient support from the ownership. I think your point comes back to, and to a certain extent I agree, if the players aren’t good enough it doesn’t matter who the manager is. If we have another summer mirroring the one just gone, I would be in favour of retaining Jacko with any kind of top half finish.Cafc43v3r said:
Not really though is it? If Jackson has very little input into the summer transfers why should he be judged on that?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
If he had been the manager since Bowyer left we would have still finished well out of the play off places and very few people would be saying he should stay.
Why are we judging him purely on how well, or badly, someone else does something?
If Thomas and Martin fuck it up again does Jackson get the 23/24 season as well? Or do we sack him because that's what football clubs do?
Yes the footballing style isn’t prime Barcelona but it’s never going to be in League One. In the CharltonTV studio last week, Yann described the football under Powell as ‘direct’ but it was still effective enough to win the league with 100+ points. Both Wigan and Rotherham got promoted with a direct style too. It’s just the nature of the league we’re in.0 - Sponsored links:
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Adkins had us 23rd. I would’ve liked him to have more time but drastic action had to be taken.0
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But at the end of last season he had us playing better football than Jackson ever has no?Callumcafc said:Adkins had us 23rd. I would’ve liked him to have more time but drastic action had to be taken.
Can't judge on 33 games sure I suppose I do agree but it works both ways. 33 games is essentially an entire season in some divisions.0 -
So if we are say 22nd after 5, 10 or 15 games next season Jackson should go regardless of the recruitment and his role in it? Where do you draw the line?Callumcafc said:Adkins had us 23rd. I would’ve liked him to have more time but drastic action had to be taken.
What if we are 14th after 33 games?0 -
From 50pts to 90pts! Do you have any examples where such an enormous change in fortunes occurred in one season?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.0 -
Sure, it’s not an insignificant amount but the big missing piece is that he hasn’t been allowed a summer yet either.SELR_addicks said:
But at the end of last season he had us playing better football than Jackson ever has no?Callumcafc said:Adkins had us 23rd. I would’ve liked him to have more time but drastic action had to be taken.
Can't judge on 33 games sure I suppose I do agree but it works both ways. 33 games is essentially an entire season in some divisions.
I’m not sure the football under Adkins was that much better. I would have to go back and read some post match threads but I’m fairly certain I can remember complaints back then too.1 -
I mean it’s not as black and white as I would like it to be but I’ll give it a go:Cafc43v3r said:
So if we are say 22nd after 5, 10 or 15 games next season Jackson should go regardless of the recruitment and his role in it? Where do you draw the line?Callumcafc said:Adkins had us 23rd. I would’ve liked him to have more time but drastic action had to be taken.
What if we are 14th after 33 games?
22nd after 5 = no sack
22nd after 10 = depends on the manner of the defeats
22nd after 15 = bye bye Jacko
14th after 33 = probably no sack but depends on how good the squad is - there would be a decision to be made this time next year.0 -
Well apart from the fact that the season is 46 games long and not the 33 games we got 50 points from… that gets us halfway across the 40 gap!ValleyOfTears said:
From 50pts to 90pts! Do you have any examples where such an enormous change in fortunes occurred in one season?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
Here’s one for every season since we won this league in 2012.
Charlton 2011->2012 / 13th -> 1st
Bournemouth 2012->2013 / 11th -> 2nd
Preston 2013->2014 / 14th -> 5th
Bristol City 2014->2015 / 12th -> 1st
Walsall 2015->2016 / 14th -> 3rd
Sheff Utd 2016->2017 / 11th -> 1st
Shrewsbury 2017->2018 / 18th -> 3rd
Doncaster 2018->2019 / 15th -> 6th
Wycombe 2019->2020 / 17th -> 3rd
Blackpool 2020->2021 / 13th -> 3rd
Wigan 2021->2022 / 20th -> 1st3 -
WiganValleyOfTears said:
From 50pts to 90pts! Do you have any examples where such an enormous change in fortunes occurred in one season?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
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Yes Wigan sprang to mind but weren't they relegated the season before? That makes the points tally comparison null and void. It has to surely be based on a team in the same division for.two or more seasons. I exoect, for example, Derby County to end next season with much more than double their points tally of this season in the 22/23 season down here in Div one.Todds_right_hook said:
WiganValleyOfTears said:
From 50pts to 90pts! Do you have any examples where such an enormous change in fortunes occurred in one season?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.0 -
Thanks Callum. That's pretty comprehensiveCallumcafc said:
Well apart from the fact that the season is 46 games long and not the 33 games we got 50 points from… that gets us halfway across the 40 gap!ValleyOfTears said:
From 50pts to 90pts! Do you have any examples where such an enormous change in fortunes occurred in one season?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
Here’s one for every season since we won this league in 2012.
Charlton 2011->2012 / 13th -> 1st
Bournemouth 2012->2013 / 11th -> 2nd
Preston 2013->2014 / 14th -> 5th
Bristol City 2014->2015 / 12th -> 1st
Walsall 2015->2016 / 14th -> 3rd
Sheff Utd 2016->2017 / 11th -> 1st
Shrewsbury 2017->2018 / 18th -> 3rd
Doncaster 2018->2019 / 15th -> 6th
Wycombe 2019->2020 / 17th -> 3rd
Blackpool 2020->2021 / 13th -> 3rd
Wigan 2021->2022 / 20th -> 1st1 - Sponsored links:
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They stayed up by a point and 12 months later were champions! It shows that a big turn around can be achieved. From memory, Plymouth went form lower mid table to be in the top 7 all season.ValleyOfTears said:
Yes Wigan sprang to mind but weren't they relegated the season before? That makes the points tally comparison null and void. It has to surely be based on a team in the same division for.two or more seasons. I exoect, for example, Derby County to end next season with much more than double their points tally of this season in the 22/23 season down here in Div one.Todds_right_hook said:
WiganValleyOfTears said:
From 50pts to 90pts! Do you have any examples where such an enormous change in fortunes occurred in one season?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
im not saying we will, but it has and can be done.1 -
I think our fans just expect to much.
We were crap, in the relegation zone and couldn't beat an egg.
He got us up to 13th, not bad for a relegation bound team.
The mess at Charlton has been going on for years, and you can't just sort it out over night.
I don't think motivation is the issue, we just don't have very good players.
If he wants to play three at the back, he needs to have at least 5-6 central defenders, and not be playing left backs, right backs and midfielders in central defence.
Our keeper needs to go, he is an absolute liability.
The team is far better than the rubbish we saw from Adkins. So we have improved.
I say give Jackson this season to build his own team and see where we end up. If we improve on 13th, then we're heading in the right direction. Then we can improve again the following season, and maybe push for promotion.
Please remember, it was only a couple of years ago we nearly never had our football club anymore.
Just be thankful we have a football club for you all to have a moan about...
The same can't be said for Bury!
8 -
As said before, he’s too rigid with the formation. Hopefully it’s because he has no trust in the playing squad so be interesting what he does if kept on. Curbs was the best at changing formation during a game, maybe as he used to sit in the directors box for a better view of what was going on all over the pitch. Peacock used to do it for SCP I am sure too.0
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🙄Leaburn Forever said:I think our fans just expect to much.
We were crap, in the relegation zone and couldn't beat an egg.
He got us up to 13th, not bad for a relegation bound team.
The mess at Charlton has been going on for years, and you can't just sort it out over night.
I don't think motivation is the issue, we just don't have very good players.
If he wants to play three at the back, he needs to have at least 5-6 central defenders, and not be playing left backs, right backs and midfielders in central defence.
Our keeper needs to go, he is an absolute liability.
The team is far better than the rubbish we saw from Adkins. So we have improved.
I say give Jackson this season to build his own team and see where we end up. If we improve on 13th, then we're heading in the right direction. Then we can improve again the following season, and maybe push for promotion.
Please remember, it was only a couple of years ago we nearly never had our football club anymore.
Just be thankful we have a football club for you all to have a moan about...
The same can't be said for Bury!8 -
I'd like to think they've been working on signings for at least the last couple of months thoughMendonca In Asdas said:
We really haven’t got long to sort this mess out then?Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Starts early because of the world cup in the winter.Mendonca In Asdas said:
When does the season start?Crusty54 said:Cpntracts run until the end of June and players go on holiday.
Hard to see any signings happening before July.
First league game is 30 July.0 -
There really is a load of twaddle spoken about formations nowadays. This logic says you play 2-3-5 and you will outscore the opposition every week. How do your four defenders in a 4-4-2 get over-run by three midfielders? You just play them closer together and it's 4 v 3 using your logic. You could also argue that your four man midfield will out-run their three. What's far more important is playing to your players strengths and ours is very clearly not 3-5-2.
You can't play a flat 442 unless your players are ridiculously better than the opposition. Simply because almost everyone plays 433 or 352 or versions of and your 2 central midfielders will just get totally over run by the 3. Your extra man is most likely to be a center half or a full back.
The starting point is the 3 midfielders and what roles you want them to do. Not just chuck 3 in there who are notionally midfielders. That's what we have done for the last two seasons and it doesn't work, at all. Gilbey has had about 5 different roles in 5 different formations. League 1 players aren't good enough to do that.
After doing that there is no right or wrong way to go as long as you have the players to play the roles you need and provide the other qualities all good teams have.1 -
"Improving on 13th"!!!! Well it's certainly closer to reality than "we'll p*** this league".Leaburn Forever said:I think our fans just expect to much.
We were crap, in the relegation zone and couldn't beat an egg.
He got us up to 13th, not bad for a relegation bound team.
The mess at Charlton has been going on for years, and you can't just sort it out over night.
I don't think motivation is the issue, we just don't have very good players.
If he wants to play three at the back, he needs to have at least 5-6 central defenders, and not be playing left backs, right backs and midfielders in central defence.
Our keeper needs to go, he is an absolute liability.
The team is far better than the rubbish we saw from Adkins. So we have improved.
I say give Jackson this season to build his own team and see where we end up. If we improve on 13th, then we're heading in the right direction. Then we can improve again the following season, and maybe push for promotion.
Please remember, it was only a couple of years ago we nearly never had our football club anymore.
Just be thankful we have a football club for you all to have a moan about...
The same can't be said for Bury!
Would anyone accept Lyle back? I've just got a feeling he will be back in League 1 next season....0 -
If Jackson doesn’t have much influence on the players the club signs then I politely suggest to him that he finds a club where he can influence the signings because at Charlton he’ll be doomed and any kudos he does have will soon be long gone. If it’s Gallen and Martin Sandgaard you might as well let them pick the team and set them up. I would hope JJ, whom I have utmost respect for would have the backbone to call this out. I’m sure he loves the club and would be doing it and the supporters a favour. If our recruitment system is that broken then those saying it doesn’t matter who is manager are absolutely right. Perhaps our ire should be directed more at SG and the system.Cafc43v3r said:
Not really though is it? If Jackson has very little input into the summer transfers why should he be judged on that?Callumcafc said:
Yes. It’s not really fair but that’s football.Cafc43v3r said:
So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?Callumcafc said:se9addick said:
70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable.Callumcafc said:Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.
Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all.First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.
That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.
This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.
In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).
Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.
70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.
Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.
I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either. I still think the same about Adkins.
The question here is whether Jacko deserves a crack at it next year and in trying to look at it as objectively as possible, I would suggest that he does.
There is no reason why, with a good summer, we can’t turn that 50 points from 33 games into 80-90 points from 46.
If he had been the manager since Bowyer left we would have still finished well out of the play off places and very few people would be saying he should stay.
Why are we judging him purely on how well, or badly, someone else does something?
If Thomas and Martin fuck it up again does Jackson get the 23/24 season as well? Or do we sack him because that's what football clubs do?0 -
The puzzling question for me in this dire season is exactly what was wrong with Spurs loan Nile John. Just how bad is he that he couldn’t get a kick in probably the worst Charlton midfield I’ve ever known in 60 years of watching. Certainly Spurs think he’s a real prospect and I imagine Chris Powell thought he was doing Charlton a real favour by manoeuvring John to sign for us. Didn’t Chris Powell actually “deliver” NJ to Sparrows and made a statement about his loan ? That’s not particularly usual is it. I would imagine its completely naused up any prospect of future loans from Spurs for a while and we already know that Arsenal were not happy with our previous treatment of Matt Smith. We have as a third division club a rich source of local Premiership talent to utilise and already we’ve alienated two of the richest sources ? Can’t put my finger on what’s wrong at Charlton but there’s something that is badly out of kilter.2
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Wigan did… and Bury have just bought their name & ground back… neither has happened to us yet or is likely to.Leaburn Forever said:I think our fans just expect to much.
We were crap, in the relegation zone and couldn't beat an egg.
He got us up to 13th, not bad for a relegation bound team.
The mess at Charlton has been going on for years, and you can't just sort it out over night.
I don't think motivation is the issue, we just don't have very good players.
If he wants to play three at the back, he needs to have at least 5-6 central defenders, and not be playing left backs, right backs and midfielders in central defence.
Our keeper needs to go, he is an absolute liability.
The team is far better than the rubbish we saw from Adkins. So we have improved.
I say give Jackson this season to build his own team and see where we end up. If we improve on 13th, then we're heading in the right direction. Then we can improve again the following season, and maybe push for promotion.
Please remember, it was only a couple of years ago we nearly never had our football club anymore.
Just be thankful we have a football club for you all to have a moan about...
The same can't be said for Bury!0
This discussion has been closed.
