He didn't have to as far as I am concerened. He impressed at Charlton. Jobs differ and good managers have failures on their CVs as well as successes.
True but you’d expect the better managers to have more successes than failures. Powell did a brilliant job for us and could have taken us further with enough backing, but if he came back I wouldn’t expect him to repeat that success. Partly for his ability to do it and partly because it’s unlikely so many signings would work out as well as they did.
I do get what you are saying and the logic behind it. I also think Powell had his faults, a big one being too cautious within games. Similar to Southgate with England in some ways. But overall he just fitted. When he was here, the fans loved him and the players would run through brick walls for him. When you have that, it is stupid throwing it away. When he told us we had our Charlton back, we knew he got it and we loved him for it because it meant as much to him as to us. Maybe Chrissy has found it just as hard to find subsequently as we have managerially. I think it was Duchatelet's first criminal act and it basically stemmed from having a plan and throwing out opportunities to pursue it as Powell was definitely an opportunity for an open minded owner who could adapt to what was around him. Whilst his heart seems to be in the right place, I suspect Sandgaard has this trait.
I definitely backed Powell at the time RD came in and agree there was a great opportunity for us to really push on had the plan simply be to back him. I hoped for the same with TS and Bowyer but that felt different, Bowyer seemed to get to a point where he needed a change himself. I don’t think Powell was at that point, instead he needed backing in the window but ended up with Thuram, Nego etc.
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
Yes. I've used Wimbledon before as an example and I'll use them again. They have a committee of non football people who make all decisions on transfers and contracts.
its more common than you ours think. But I'm guessing that doesn't fit into most peoples ts bashing agenda.
jackson took our job knowing the set up and then again at Wimbledon. Either jj is stupid or he has a greater understanding of how football clubs are run than the members of Charlton life 🤔
Non football people with zero experience? I doubt it.
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
SG is head of recruitment .. gone are the days when a manager went to look at players , speak to people about him etc etc remember Curbs saying it can take up to a year for him to make a decision on a player .. now at all clubs in prem championship and most of league one who can afford it the manager just highlights the players or positions he wants and then leaves it all to the recruitment team and scouts … the first time the manager then sees the player is when he turns up for training , you don’t even get the manager and player picture together now that tells how recruitment as changed
So why does the owner of that club say the recruitment team works in an entirely different way?
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
How many managers ever over achieve for more than a very short period of time though?
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
Les Reed is the other one BTW.
I’d rather we over achieved for a year or two than not achieve at all.
Not sure what you’re saying, is it that we should go for an experienced manager rather than Beale? That was the point originally made in the first comment in this set of quotes.
Of course, wasn’t thinking as far back as Reed.
No the original point was basically past performance, or lack of, doesn't really paint any sort of picture at all, without context.
As an example you can't compare Adkins's success at Southampton with his failed here and draw the conclusion he is "yesterday's man". Different players, different owners, different opponents, different staff.
You originally said that a manager who had been at a higher level would only come here because they couldn't get a job at a higher level because they aren't good enough any more, or words to that effect.
Dyche probably will end up getting a big championship job but is that because he isnt good enough, any more, to be a Premier League one?
It’s broadly true though of course there are exceptions. If a manager is rated as a Championship level manager with the amount of managerial changes that happen they’ve got a good chance of getting another job at that level.
In the same way we can’t assume Adkins is a great manager based on him managing a very well funded Southampton team who had various players who went on to impress at a much higher level than League 1.
That’s an assumption on Dyche but probably true due to his style of football putting Prem clubs off.
At the same time we can't say that Adkins isn't a good manager because of his time here. Or Reading, or Hull because of exactly the same reason.
Big Mick got stick for not taking Ipswich back up but the season they sacked him they went down....
With Dyche, could he have kept Burnley up playing tiki taka? Almost certainly not. Big Sam didn't play that style when he had the players at Bolton to not. Would Dyche play like that if he had unlimited resource, I would suggest not.
Almost everyone, including the dinosaurs and yesterday's men have all the badges, circumstances are a bigger factor in success or not.
We’re going in circles but agreeing managers like Adkins have mixed records so in most cases they’re seen as reasonable managers who will succeed in the right circumstances.
But you can say that about manager who is successful due to having the right circumstances. Recent example, is ancelotti a good manager? He finished 10th with everton and then went to real madrid where the circumstances are more favourable and they won the league.
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
Yes. I've used Wimbledon before as an example and I'll use them again. They have a committee of non football people who make all decisions on transfers and contracts.
its more common than you ours think. But I'm guessing that doesn't fit into most peoples ts bashing agenda.
jackson took our job knowing the set up and then again at Wimbledon. Either jj is stupid or he has a greater understanding of how football clubs are run than the members of Charlton life 🤔
Non football people with zero experience? I doubt it.
I’ve had a look, there’s an article on it. Their committee has 5 members, the CEO, the head coach, the recruitment and analytics manager and two senior scouts.
CEO Joe Palmer was previously a director at Shakhtar Donetsk and COO with Sheff Wed. He’s been at AFCW since 2018 first as COO and then CEO.
Will Daniels recruitment and analytics manager worked as a sports trader for Spreadex since 2003. He joined AFCW as an analyst in 2019 and moved to his current role in 2021.
No idea who the senior scouts are.
Not wildly different from what we’re doing but the CEO has been in football for a lot longer and I assume the senior scouts have decent experience in the game too.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
How many managers ever over achieve for more than a very short period of time though?
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
Les Reed is the other one BTW.
I’d rather we over achieved for a year or two than not achieve at all.
Not sure what you’re saying, is it that we should go for an experienced manager rather than Beale? That was the point originally made in the first comment in this set of quotes.
Of course, wasn’t thinking as far back as Reed.
No the original point was basically past performance, or lack of, doesn't really paint any sort of picture at all, without context.
As an example you can't compare Adkins's success at Southampton with his failed here and draw the conclusion he is "yesterday's man". Different players, different owners, different opponents, different staff.
You originally said that a manager who had been at a higher level would only come here because they couldn't get a job at a higher level because they aren't good enough any more, or words to that effect.
Dyche probably will end up getting a big championship job but is that because he isnt good enough, any more, to be a Premier League one?
It’s broadly true though of course there are exceptions. If a manager is rated as a Championship level manager with the amount of managerial changes that happen they’ve got a good chance of getting another job at that level.
In the same way we can’t assume Adkins is a great manager based on him managing a very well funded Southampton team who had various players who went on to impress at a much higher level than League 1.
That’s an assumption on Dyche but probably true due to his style of football putting Prem clubs off.
At the same time we can't say that Adkins isn't a good manager because of his time here. Or Reading, or Hull because of exactly the same reason.
Big Mick got stick for not taking Ipswich back up but the season they sacked him they went down....
With Dyche, could he have kept Burnley up playing tiki taka? Almost certainly not. Big Sam didn't play that style when he had the players at Bolton to not. Would Dyche play like that if he had unlimited resource, I would suggest not.
Almost everyone, including the dinosaurs and yesterday's men have all the badges, circumstances are a bigger factor in success or not.
We’re going in circles but agreeing managers like Adkins have mixed records so in most cases they’re seen as reasonable managers who will succeed in the right circumstances.
But you can say that about manager who is successful due to having the right circumstances. Recent example, is ancelotti a good manager? He finished 10th with everton and then went to real madrid where the circumstances are more favourable and they won the league.
Not sure where Everton’s budget is but 10th can’t be miles off expectations?
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
How many managers ever over achieve for more than a very short period of time though?
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
Les Reed is the other one BTW.
I’d rather we over achieved for a year or two than not achieve at all.
Not sure what you’re saying, is it that we should go for an experienced manager rather than Beale? That was the point originally made in the first comment in this set of quotes.
Of course, wasn’t thinking as far back as Reed.
No the original point was basically past performance, or lack of, doesn't really paint any sort of picture at all, without context.
As an example you can't compare Adkins's success at Southampton with his failed here and draw the conclusion he is "yesterday's man". Different players, different owners, different opponents, different staff.
You originally said that a manager who had been at a higher level would only come here because they couldn't get a job at a higher level because they aren't good enough any more, or words to that effect.
Dyche probably will end up getting a big championship job but is that because he isnt good enough, any more, to be a Premier League one?
It’s broadly true though of course there are exceptions. If a manager is rated as a Championship level manager with the amount of managerial changes that happen they’ve got a good chance of getting another job at that level.
In the same way we can’t assume Adkins is a great manager based on him managing a very well funded Southampton team who had various players who went on to impress at a much higher level than League 1.
That’s an assumption on Dyche but probably true due to his style of football putting Prem clubs off.
At the same time we can't say that Adkins isn't a good manager because of his time here. Or Reading, or Hull because of exactly the same reason.
Big Mick got stick for not taking Ipswich back up but the season they sacked him they went down....
With Dyche, could he have kept Burnley up playing tiki taka? Almost certainly not. Big Sam didn't play that style when he had the players at Bolton to not. Would Dyche play like that if he had unlimited resource, I would suggest not.
Almost everyone, including the dinosaurs and yesterday's men have all the badges, circumstances are a bigger factor in success or not.
We’re going in circles but agreeing managers like Adkins have mixed records so in most cases they’re seen as reasonable managers who will succeed in the right circumstances.
But you can say that about manager who is successful due to having the right circumstances. Recent example, is ancelotti a good manager? He finished 10th with everton and then went to real madrid where the circumstances are more favourable and they won the league.
I think its so difficult to judge from our position as fans. What you really need is to see them in their day to day role behind the scenes, which we aren't privy to. How they motivate players, provide instructions, their commitment and drive each day of the week, training, respect from the players.
We as fans only see the results, which as people have stated depend on circumstances and luck.
Further to that, my opinion was that I felt that Adkins was out of touch with the players and a little bit in a dreamworld of positivity.
When Jacko took over I think the players felt envigorated by someone they connected with on a personal level. But I do suspect that worked against him when things started to go wrong in that he was too close. I also suspect he lost their belief with his tactical rigidity and the odd selections in the defensive positions.
It's a fine line for a manager between connecting personally and maintaining authority.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
How many managers ever over achieve for more than a very short period of time though?
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
Les Reed is the other one BTW.
I’d rather we over achieved for a year or two than not achieve at all.
Not sure what you’re saying, is it that we should go for an experienced manager rather than Beale? That was the point originally made in the first comment in this set of quotes.
Of course, wasn’t thinking as far back as Reed.
No the original point was basically past performance, or lack of, doesn't really paint any sort of picture at all, without context.
As an example you can't compare Adkins's success at Southampton with his failed here and draw the conclusion he is "yesterday's man". Different players, different owners, different opponents, different staff.
You originally said that a manager who had been at a higher level would only come here because they couldn't get a job at a higher level because they aren't good enough any more, or words to that effect.
Dyche probably will end up getting a big championship job but is that because he isnt good enough, any more, to be a Premier League one?
It’s broadly true though of course there are exceptions. If a manager is rated as a Championship level manager with the amount of managerial changes that happen they’ve got a good chance of getting another job at that level.
In the same way we can’t assume Adkins is a great manager based on him managing a very well funded Southampton team who had various players who went on to impress at a much higher level than League 1.
That’s an assumption on Dyche but probably true due to his style of football putting Prem clubs off.
At the same time we can't say that Adkins isn't a good manager because of his time here. Or Reading, or Hull because of exactly the same reason.
Big Mick got stick for not taking Ipswich back up but the season they sacked him they went down....
With Dyche, could he have kept Burnley up playing tiki taka? Almost certainly not. Big Sam didn't play that style when he had the players at Bolton to not. Would Dyche play like that if he had unlimited resource, I would suggest not.
Almost everyone, including the dinosaurs and yesterday's men have all the badges, circumstances are a bigger factor in success or not.
We’re going in circles but agreeing managers like Adkins have mixed records so in most cases they’re seen as reasonable managers who will succeed in the right circumstances.
But you can say that about manager who is successful due to having the right circumstances. Recent example, is ancelotti a good manager? He finished 10th with everton and then went to real madrid where the circumstances are more favourable and they won the league.
10th with Everton was good and few at the club wanted him to leave
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
Yes. I've used Wimbledon before as an example and I'll use them again. They have a committee of non football people who make all decisions on transfers and contracts.
its more common than you ours think. But I'm guessing that doesn't fit into most peoples ts bashing agenda.
jackson took our job knowing the set up and then again at Wimbledon. Either jj is stupid or he has a greater understanding of how football clubs are run than the members of Charlton life 🤔
Non football people with zero experience? I doubt it.
That's your choice but it happens! I'm not saying it's right but it happens. The Wimbledon committee decided to sell their star striker to Wrexham instead of paying him an extra 2k a month. That back fired!!
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
Yes. I've used Wimbledon before as an example and I'll use them again. They have a committee of non football people who make all decisions on transfers and contracts.
its more common than you ours think. But I'm guessing that doesn't fit into most peoples ts bashing agenda.
jackson took our job knowing the set up and then again at Wimbledon. Either jj is stupid or he has a greater understanding of how football clubs are run than the members of Charlton life 🤔
Non football people with zero experience? I doubt it.
I’ve had a look, there’s an article on it. Their committee has 5 members, the CEO, the head coach, the recruitment and analytics manager and two senior scouts.
CEO Joe Palmer was previously a director at Shakhtar Donetsk and COO with Sheff Wed. He’s been at AFCW since 2018 first as COO and then CEO.
Will Daniels recruitment and analytics manager worked as a sports trader for Spreadex since 2003. He joined AFCW as an analyst in 2019 and moved to his current role in 2021.
No idea who the senior scouts are.
Not wildly different from what we’re doing but the CEO has been in football for a lot longer and I assume the senior scouts have decent experience in the game too.
Q: So, a football committee has been created – but who sits on it?
Joe: There’s me, Robbo, our new recruitment and analytics manager, Will Daniels, and two senior scouts.
I doubt the scouts are “non-football” people, as previously described, and the head coach is part of the committee. You could equate that to the recruitment structure at Charlton in 2011.
That structure didn’t include Jimenez/Slater although there’s no reason it couldn’t have included someone holding the purse strings. Varney would have been a proxy for them, as well as being otherwise involved. Chris Powell was at the heart of it.
The key there is balance and variety. Not having a manager/head coach is obviously a handicap.
AFC Wimbledon started in 2002 as a Phoenix from the Ashes club in the 9th tier and are the first club started in the 21st century to achieve League status.
Diversity in business skills made it possible, combined with Football skills on their journey from the Combined Counties League-9th tier to the dizzy heights of League 1 and finally getting back to 250 yards from the stadium of Wimbledon fc. A minor set back in League 2 but a great opportunity for Johnnie Jackson.
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
Yes. I've used Wimbledon before as an example and I'll use them again. They have a committee of non football people who make all decisions on transfers and contracts.
its more common than you ours think. But I'm guessing that doesn't fit into most peoples ts bashing agenda.
jackson took our job knowing the set up and then again at Wimbledon. Either jj is stupid or he has a greater understanding of how football clubs are run than the members of Charlton life 🤔
Non football people with zero experience? I doubt it.
I’ve had a look, there’s an article on it. Their committee has 5 members, the CEO, the head coach, the recruitment and analytics manager and two senior scouts.
CEO Joe Palmer was previously a director at Shakhtar Donetsk and COO with Sheff Wed. He’s been at AFCW since 2018 first as COO and then CEO.
Will Daniels recruitment and analytics manager worked as a sports trader for Spreadex since 2003. He joined AFCW as an analyst in 2019 and moved to his current role in 2021.
No idea who the senior scouts are.
Not wildly different from what we’re doing but the CEO has been in football for a lot longer and I assume the senior scouts have decent experience in the game too.
Q: So, a football committee has been created – but who sits on it?
Joe: There’s me, Robbo, our new recruitment and analytics manager, Will Daniels, and two senior scouts.
The recruitment analytics team at AFC have all either, studied sports performance analysis, data science, have fa player performance accreditation and a fair few having done junior coaching or worked varying analyst jobs at other clubs.
This is,again, the only point of concern people have with our current set-up, they have a pretty well experienced data team in place (including a junior analyst who left us in 2018!), Ours headed up by a guy who has a very week data CV and no industry knowledge, with the ultimate decision falling on the owner with even less knowledge.
But still, some people like to portray it as some sort of personal hatred towards Sandy JR.
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
Yes. I've used Wimbledon before as an example and I'll use them again. They have a committee of non football people who make all decisions on transfers and contracts.
its more common than you ours think. But I'm guessing that doesn't fit into most peoples ts bashing agenda.
jackson took our job knowing the set up and then again at Wimbledon. Either jj is stupid or he has a greater understanding of how football clubs are run than the members of Charlton life 🤔
Non football people with zero experience? I doubt it.
I’ve had a look, there’s an article on it. Their committee has 5 members, the CEO, the head coach, the recruitment and analytics manager and two senior scouts.
CEO Joe Palmer was previously a director at Shakhtar Donetsk and COO with Sheff Wed. He’s been at AFCW since 2018 first as COO and then CEO.
Will Daniels recruitment and analytics manager worked as a sports trader for Spreadex since 2003. He joined AFCW as an analyst in 2019 and moved to his current role in 2021.
No idea who the senior scouts are.
Not wildly different from what we’re doing but the CEO has been in football for a lot longer and I assume the senior scouts have decent experience in the game too.
Q: So, a football committee has been created – but who sits on it?
Joe: There’s me, Robbo, our new recruitment and analytics manager, Will Daniels, and two senior scouts.
I doubt the scouts are “non-football” people, as previously described, and the head coach is part of the committee. You could equate that to the recruitment structure at Charlton in 2011.
That structure didn’t include Jimenez/Slater although there’s no reason it couldn’t have included someone holding the purse strings. Varney would have been a proxy for them, as well as being otherwise involved. Chris Powell was at the heart of it.
The key there is balance and variety. Not having a manager/head coach is obviously a handicap.
Agree on the senior scouts, that’s why I said I assume they have decent experience in the game. Very unlikely they’ve gone straight into senior roles.
If our new manager/head coach and Gallen have input then that gives us balance and variety. If Gallen is purely there to negotiate and Jackson’s replacement has no say then obviously not.
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
Yes. I've used Wimbledon before as an example and I'll use them again. They have a committee of non football people who make all decisions on transfers and contracts.
its more common than you ours think. But I'm guessing that doesn't fit into most peoples ts bashing agenda.
jackson took our job knowing the set up and then again at Wimbledon. Either jj is stupid or he has a greater understanding of how football clubs are run than the members of Charlton life 🤔
Non football people with zero experience? I doubt it.
That's your choice but it happens! I'm not saying it's right but it happens. The Wimbledon committee decided to sell their star striker to Wrexham instead of paying him an extra 2k a month. That back fired!!
I don’t have an issue with the system, I have an issue with two of the most senior people in the system having zero experience other than watching SSN.
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
SG is head of recruitment .. gone are the days when a manager went to look at players , speak to people about him etc etc remember Curbs saying it can take up to a year for him to make a decision on a player .. now at all clubs in prem championship and most of league one who can afford it the manager just highlights the players or positions he wants and then leaves it all to the recruitment team and scouts … the first time the manager then sees the player is when he turns up for training , you don’t even get the manager and player picture together now that tells how recruitment as changed
Yeah most managers just say get me a defensive midfielder , and then a couple months later some bloke turns up at training that he has never seen before
Adkins had NO INTEREST in the players we signed last year. He had zero suggestions and zero interest in it. He had been out of the game for too long and wasn’t up to date with players but didn’t care anyway. He was prepared to work with what he had.
Don’t think it took too long to realise we had made a mistake but probably took too long to act on it.
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
SG is head of recruitment .. gone are the days when a manager went to look at players , speak to people about him etc etc remember Curbs saying it can take up to a year for him to make a decision on a player .. now at all clubs in prem championship and most of league one who can afford it the manager just highlights the players or positions he wants and then leaves it all to the recruitment team and scouts … the first time the manager then sees the player is when he turns up for training , you don’t even get the manager and player picture together now that tells how recruitment as changed
Yeah most managers just say get me a defensive midfielder , and then a couple months later some bloke turns up at training that he has never seen before
That was what happened a few times under Duchatelet crazily!
Re the length of time between departure of old manager and arrival of new one, Curbishley went in May 2006 but Dowie wasn't in until July as I recall, and that went well, didn't it!
Is this longest it’s ever taken us to appoint a new manager?
no one decent wants to be manager under TS format
I don't get this. What format?
what do we do that's so different to every other club?
who heads up our recruitment? Is that normal?
SG is head of recruitment .. gone are the days when a manager went to look at players , speak to people about him etc etc remember Curbs saying it can take up to a year for him to make a decision on a player .. now at all clubs in prem championship and most of league one who can afford it the manager just highlights the players or positions he wants and then leaves it all to the recruitment team and scouts … the first time the manager then sees the player is when he turns up for training , you don’t even get the manager and player picture together now that tells how recruitment as changed
Yeah most managers just say get me a defensive midfielder , and then a couple months later some bloke turns up at training that he has never seen before
There’s no question that managers do say to their recruitment teams “find me a defensive midfielder” or whatever and then have little input until a list fitting that requirement is made. Then I presume availability, budget and personal preferences are added to that mix. For most teams it’s a very difficult process because it will require the player to be either out of contract or available on a free. The days of a manager scouting, and then dealing with all aspects of getting players in ala Curbs are long gone. That’s not to say I think the manager shouldn’t have the final say but these days it’s very much a committee process.
I reckon the reason for the delay is because the manager is still in post & their season hasn't finished.
So I'm going for Beale.
I dont think or understand why if anyone like Beale has accepted the job it would necessitate being kept quiet. I think both clubs would probably announce it saying he's joining us at end of season.
It's not a controversial appointment that will destabilise either club as if it were guardiola or klopp moving on somewhere with lots to play for.
I'd say outside of villa, rangers and charlton Beale isn't really big news in the football world and whilst I'll be delighted if he joins us and villa will lose an apparently excellent coach I can't see why it would be hushed up until villa complete their dead rubber this weekend.
Man C v A Villa on Sunday. If Beale is the brains behind Villa, then his announced departure could effect who wins The Premier League?
I would say the £15m bonus Villa get for Grealish becoming PL Champion would have more Impact on who wins the Premier League
Is this fact?? This could seriously be seen as an incentive to lose
Re the length of time between departure of old manager and arrival of new one, Curbishley went in May 2006 but Dowie wasn't in until July as I recall, and that went well, didn't it!
Adkins had NO INTEREST in the players we signed last year. He had zero suggestions and zero interest in it. He had been out of the game for too long and wasn’t up to date with players but didn’t care anyway. He was prepared to work with what he had.
Don’t think it took too long to realise we had made a mistake but probably took too long to act on it.
No reason at all to not believe that but why would Thomas have heated arguments about it with someone that couldn't give a toss either way?
Adkins had NO INTEREST in the players we signed last year. He had zero suggestions and zero interest in it. He had been out of the game for too long and wasn’t up to date with players but didn’t care anyway. He was prepared to work with what he had.
Don’t think it took too long to realise we had made a mistake but probably took too long to act on it.
No reason at all to not believe that but why would Thomas have heated arguments about it with someone that couldn't give a toss either way?
Potentially Thomas was “sucked in” to Adkins positivity and played too large a role in his employment. Regretted it and then took it all a bit personally
Adkins had NO INTEREST in the players we signed last year. He had zero suggestions and zero interest in it. He had been out of the game for too long and wasn’t up to date with players but didn’t care anyway. He was prepared to work with what he had.
Don’t think it took too long to realise we had made a mistake but probably took too long to act on it.
I thought he had to be convinced we should sign Dobson?
Adkins had NO INTEREST in the players we signed last year. He had zero suggestions and zero interest in it. He had been out of the game for too long and wasn’t up to date with players but didn’t care anyway. He was prepared to work with what he had.
Don’t think it took too long to realise we had made a mistake but probably took too long to act on it.
Wouldn't the suggestion of players came up in the interview? Surely the flags would have been there?
But I suppose when you've got a very inexperienced person conducting the interviews then this type off scenario was always a possibility.
Comments
CEO Joe Palmer was previously a director at Shakhtar Donetsk and COO with Sheff Wed. He’s been at AFCW since 2018 first as COO and then CEO.
Will Daniels recruitment and analytics manager worked as a sports trader for Spreadex since 2003. He joined AFCW as an analyst in 2019 and moved to his current role in 2021.
No idea who the senior scouts are.
Not wildly different from what we’re doing but the CEO has been in football for a lot longer and I assume the senior scouts have decent experience in the game too.
https://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/news/2021/april/robbo-key-to-our-football-revolution/
Q: So, a football committee has been created – but who sits on it?
Joe: There’s me, Robbo, our new recruitment and analytics manager, Will Daniels, and two senior scouts.
We as fans only see the results, which as people have stated depend on circumstances and luck.
When Jacko took over I think the players felt envigorated by someone they connected with on a personal level. But I do suspect that worked against him when things started to go wrong in that he was too close. I also suspect he lost their belief with his tactical rigidity and the odd selections in the defensive positions.
It's a fine line for a manager between connecting personally and maintaining authority.
The key there is balance and variety. Not having a manager/head coach is obviously a handicap.
Diversity in business skills made it possible, combined with Football skills on their journey from the Combined Counties League-9th tier to the dizzy heights of League 1 and finally getting back to 250 yards from the stadium of Wimbledon fc.
A minor set back in League 2 but a great opportunity for Johnnie Jackson.
I admire the Dons trust that made it possible.
The recruitment analytics team at AFC have all either, studied sports performance analysis, data science, have fa player performance accreditation and a fair few having done junior coaching or worked varying analyst jobs at other clubs.
This is,again, the only point of concern people have with our current set-up, they have a pretty well experienced data team in place (including a junior analyst who left us in 2018!), Ours headed up by a guy who has a very week data CV and no industry knowledge, with the ultimate decision falling on the owner with even less knowledge.
But still, some people like to portray it as some sort of personal hatred towards Sandy JR.
If our new manager/head coach and Gallen have input then that gives us balance and variety. If Gallen is purely there to negotiate and Jackson’s replacement has no say then obviously not.
Don’t think it took too long to realise we had made a mistake but probably took too long to act on it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/5027750.stm
But I suppose when you've got a very inexperienced person conducting the interviews then this type off scenario was always a possibility.