Pratley was good in the championship season as we usually didn’t have the ball much. In league 1 he was never great as we would have the ball more, was definitely the right decision to release him.
Dobson is much better on the ball than pratley, but will be interesting to see if Garner fancies him or not as I would have thought someone like a JFC would probably suit his style more. Dobson did improve on the ball as the season went on so hopefully that continues
Pratley was good in the championship season as we usually didn’t have the ball much. In league 1 he was never great as we would have the ball more, was definitely the right decision to release him.
Dobson is much better on the ball than pratley, but will be interesting to see if Garner fancies him or not as I would have thought someone like a JFC would probably suit his style more. Dobson did improve on the ball as the season went on so hopefully that continues
I actually think Dobsons passing through the lines was underrated last season. I always thought he looked to pass forward more than most of our other midfielders
I really liked Pratley. He didn't have the best ball skills but he was able to pair intelligence with his stamina, which is more than you can say for a couple of the midfielders we have on the books currently.
He wouldn't be the kind of player we need for a Ben Garner team but he was exactly what was required at the time under Bowyer - we identified a gap in our squad after getting beat by Shrewsbury in the play-offs the previous year and Pratley filled that gap. I agree that Cullen/Bielik/Aribo ultimately had the quality in the run in to push us on to eventual promotion but Pratley's contribution throughout those winter months (games 15-35) were vital in keeping us in the hunt with ugly points away from home and laying the foundation for the others to play.
Wouldn't want to sign him now but won't read the slander without challenging it.
An adult analysis to counter the childish tantrums
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
Absolutely but not everyone can or wants to see that
I think at this point, people should withhold judgement and support the new manager and what ever squad he can put together before the season starts, remembering he will be constrained by the budget available and his late arrival to the club.
The new manager is oh, so yesterday.
We've moved on. We're discussing Darren Pratley now.
Warning football tactics/stats being discussed so look away now if not interested:
When I saw all the stats that said Swindon were first in so many categories last season in League 2 I felt I had to try to find out what they weren't so good at as they finish 6th not 1st.
Swindon scored the most goals in League 2, 77 which is a good achivement but conceding 54 goals which was more than anyone else in the top 10.
So being hit in transition may be an issue when you try to play attacking football and getting more bodies joining in the attack, when one poor pass can open you up to the counter attack. We will need faster defenders than Matthews (gone) and Purrington,(?) to perfect this system; even though Ben can have good games.
Ian Evatt at Bolton has a similar penchant for playing possession football and getting players forward. They finished 9th and at times were excellent at going for the Jugular ( 4-1 winners at the valley) yet other times they were hit on the counter attack and punished.
When Evatt took over at Barrow in his first job they were pot less and in the National League. He started with 4-2-3-1 and it didn't work but as soon as he tweaked to a 3-4-1-2 they went on a fantastic run and got promoted. Evatt said that system made them better in both penalty areas as he had 3 good headers of the ball in the back 3 and the two strikers helped each other and the goals for total.
Evatt has high intensity in training. I wonder if Ben Garner does ? Anyone know ?
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
I'm looking forward to attacking football and goal mouth action, I really am, who wouldn't? But isn't this constant insistence on it being the only way to play and win all a bit one - eyed and dogmatic? There's another team on the pitch, they're allowed to compete, they'll each provide their own challenges. The whole management/ownership/recruitment team are singing from the same hymn sheet but it's Sandgaard's hymn sheet, innit? Sandgaard's derision of "the high balls to the big bloke" is troubling - There's always a time and place for that, that's why it's so popular and effective. Steve Gallen's a decent and knowledgeable chap but I'm concerned by his revelation that Martin S was in on all the manager interviews. Doing what? What does he bring? Was he just Thomas's eyes and ears on the day, taking notes? Garner's credentials look fine to me, let's hope he has the players, time, players, space and players to succeed here at Charlton.
Watch this, Russell Martin gives a different perspective on managers not having a “plan B” and “typical Brits” wanting long balls up to a big man when plan A isn’t working.
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
I really liked Pratley. He didn't have the best ball skills but he was able to pair intelligence with his stamina, which is more than you can say for a couple of the midfielders we have on the books currently.
He wouldn't be the kind of player we need for a Ben Garner team but he was exactly what was required at the time under Bowyer - we identified a gap in our squad after getting beat by Shrewsbury in the play-offs the previous year and Pratley filled that gap. I agree that Cullen/Bielik/Aribo ultimately had the quality in the run in to push us on to eventual promotion but Pratley's contribution throughout those winter months (games 15-35) were vital in keeping us in the hunt with ugly points away from home and laying the foundation for the others to play.
Wouldn't want to sign him now but won't read the slander without challenging it.
An adult analysis to counter the childish tantrums
Shall we hear your Naby Sarr opinions again, old man?
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
That was the whole point, the team looked flat at that point, but he chased around, got stuck in and this is what made the rest of the team get going again. You need a player like that when things go wrong and the team stops playing
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
It really is frustrating when I read people defending a player (or suggesting we keep them) based on one thing they did in one game.
The other pet peeve is people using team stats to justify a single player's performance (e.g. we won 8 games when X started) but that's another story.
I wonder if professional scouts, when putting their reports together, say things like: "He once scored in a play-off semi."
No. She said it hadn't been agreed at that time which turns out to be true. The Steve Gallen interview explains a lot.
all semantics though. TS said yesterday that Garner had agreed to join two weeks ago but it's been with the lawyers since. Raelynn denied anyone had been appointed. Better off saying nothing. We all know the fans are stupid.🙀
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
That was the whole point, the team looked flat at that point, but he chased around, got stuck in and this is what made the rest of the team get going again. You need a player like that when things go wrong and the team stops playing
Do you? A manager like Garner is trying to build a system by which the team will always be able to respond calmly to setbacks through possession play and team pressing, rather than relying on one man to hare about aggressively (which does the other 10 players down tbh; it wasn't just Pratley who rose to the occasion)
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
That was the whole point, the team looked flat at that point, but he chased around, got stuck in and this is what made the rest of the team get going again. You need a player like that when things go wrong and the team stops playing
Do you? A manager like Garner is trying to build a system by which the team will always be able to respond calmly to setbacks through possession play and team pressing, rather than relying on one man to hare about aggressively (which does the other 10 players down tbh; it wasn't just Pratley who rose to the occasion)
You are talking about human beings. When things go wrong, some rise to the occasion and others hold back. No matter how good a manager is and what tactics he plays, the individual will act as his nature. End of my opinion, obviously not yours, but everyone entitled to theirs
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
That was the whole point, the team looked flat at that point, but he chased around, got stuck in and this is what made the rest of the team get going again. You need a player like that when things go wrong and the team stops playing
Problem is with that, had we had a better player than Pratley, would we even be in that position in the first place? That’s the counter argument. Ok he got stuck in, but how many times that season did he just get ran past? A lot from my memory. When it’s all said and done he just wasn’t a very good player for us, I appreciate he gave us a hell of a moment to remember at the Valley but that’s one moment. Let’s not forget all the times he was moving like a fridge freezer.
Comments
But my guess is that if our new manager brings in his two coaches he will go.
If he doesn't then he will stay.
Just my opinion.
Have a feeling he will pitch up with Jacko eventually..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
If they were we wouldn't have seen everything we have over the last 2 seasons.
We've moved on. We're discussing Darren Pratley now.
When I saw all the stats that said Swindon were first in so many categories last season in League 2 I felt I had to try to find out what they weren't so good at as they finish 6th not 1st.
Swindon scored the most goals in League 2,
77 which is a good achivement but conceding 54 goals which was more than anyone else in the top 10.
So being hit in transition may be an issue when you try to play attacking football and getting more bodies joining in the attack, when one poor pass can open you up to the counter attack. We will need faster defenders than Matthews (gone) and Purrington,(?) to perfect this system; even though Ben can have good games.
Ian Evatt at Bolton has a similar penchant for playing possession football and getting players forward. They finished 9th and at times were excellent at going for the Jugular ( 4-1 winners at the valley) yet other times they were hit on the counter attack and punished.
When Evatt took over at Barrow in his first job they were pot less and in the National League. He started with 4-2-3-1 and it didn't work but as soon as he tweaked to a 3-4-1-2
they went on a fantastic run and got promoted. Evatt said that system made them better in both penalty areas as he had 3 good headers of the ball in the back 3 and the two strikers helped each other and the goals for total.
Evatt has high intensity in training. I wonder if Ben Garner does ? Anyone know ?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
In fairness he has dropped the low block, which is good. I heard it was because we couldn’t identify the right linebackers.
The other pet peeve is people using team stats to justify a single player's performance (e.g. we won 8 games when X started) but that's another story.
I wonder if professional scouts, when putting their reports together, say things like: "He once scored in a play-off semi."