I think at this point, people should withhold judgement and support the new manager and what ever squad he can put together before the season starts, remembering he will be constrained by the budget available and his late arrival to the club.
The new manager is oh, so yesterday.
We've moved on. We're discussing Darren Pratley now.
Warning football tactics/stats being discussed so look away now if not interested:
When I saw all the stats that said Swindon were first in so many categories last season in League 2 I felt I had to try to find out what they weren't so good at as they finish 6th not 1st.
Swindon scored the most goals in League 2, 77 which is a good achivement but conceding 54 goals which was more than anyone else in the top 10.
So being hit in transition may be an issue when you try to play attacking football and getting more bodies joining in the attack, when one poor pass can open you up to the counter attack. We will need faster defenders than Matthews (gone) and Purrington,(?) to perfect this system; even though Ben can have good games.
Ian Evatt at Bolton has a similar penchant for playing possession football and getting players forward. They finished 9th and at times were excellent at going for the Jugular ( 4-1 winners at the valley) yet other times they were hit on the counter attack and punished.
When Evatt took over at Barrow in his first job they were pot less and in the National League. He started with 4-2-3-1 and it didn't work but as soon as he tweaked to a 3-4-1-2 they went on a fantastic run and got promoted. Evatt said that system made them better in both penalty areas as he had 3 good headers of the ball in the back 3 and the two strikers helped each other and the goals for total.
Evatt has high intensity in training. I wonder if Ben Garner does ? Anyone know ?
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
I'm looking forward to attacking football and goal mouth action, I really am, who wouldn't? But isn't this constant insistence on it being the only way to play and win all a bit one - eyed and dogmatic? There's another team on the pitch, they're allowed to compete, they'll each provide their own challenges. The whole management/ownership/recruitment team are singing from the same hymn sheet but it's Sandgaard's hymn sheet, innit? Sandgaard's derision of "the high balls to the big bloke" is troubling - There's always a time and place for that, that's why it's so popular and effective. Steve Gallen's a decent and knowledgeable chap but I'm concerned by his revelation that Martin S was in on all the manager interviews. Doing what? What does he bring? Was he just Thomas's eyes and ears on the day, taking notes? Garner's credentials look fine to me, let's hope he has the players, time, players, space and players to succeed here at Charlton.
Watch this, Russell Martin gives a different perspective on managers not having a “plan B” and “typical Brits” wanting long balls up to a big man when plan A isn’t working.
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
I really liked Pratley. He didn't have the best ball skills but he was able to pair intelligence with his stamina, which is more than you can say for a couple of the midfielders we have on the books currently.
He wouldn't be the kind of player we need for a Ben Garner team but he was exactly what was required at the time under Bowyer - we identified a gap in our squad after getting beat by Shrewsbury in the play-offs the previous year and Pratley filled that gap. I agree that Cullen/Bielik/Aribo ultimately had the quality in the run in to push us on to eventual promotion but Pratley's contribution throughout those winter months (games 15-35) were vital in keeping us in the hunt with ugly points away from home and laying the foundation for the others to play.
Wouldn't want to sign him now but won't read the slander without challenging it.
An adult analysis to counter the childish tantrums
Shall we hear your Naby Sarr opinions again, old man?
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
That was the whole point, the team looked flat at that point, but he chased around, got stuck in and this is what made the rest of the team get going again. You need a player like that when things go wrong and the team stops playing
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
It really is frustrating when I read people defending a player (or suggesting we keep them) based on one thing they did in one game.
The other pet peeve is people using team stats to justify a single player's performance (e.g. we won 8 games when X started) but that's another story.
I wonder if professional scouts, when putting their reports together, say things like: "He once scored in a play-off semi."
No. She said it hadn't been agreed at that time which turns out to be true. The Steve Gallen interview explains a lot.
all semantics though. TS said yesterday that Garner had agreed to join two weeks ago but it's been with the lawyers since. Raelynn denied anyone had been appointed. Better off saying nothing. We all know the fans are stupid.🙀
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
That was the whole point, the team looked flat at that point, but he chased around, got stuck in and this is what made the rest of the team get going again. You need a player like that when things go wrong and the team stops playing
Do you? A manager like Garner is trying to build a system by which the team will always be able to respond calmly to setbacks through possession play and team pressing, rather than relying on one man to hare about aggressively (which does the other 10 players down tbh; it wasn't just Pratley who rose to the occasion)
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
That was the whole point, the team looked flat at that point, but he chased around, got stuck in and this is what made the rest of the team get going again. You need a player like that when things go wrong and the team stops playing
Do you? A manager like Garner is trying to build a system by which the team will always be able to respond calmly to setbacks through possession play and team pressing, rather than relying on one man to hare about aggressively (which does the other 10 players down tbh; it wasn't just Pratley who rose to the occasion)
You are talking about human beings. When things go wrong, some rise to the occasion and others hold back. No matter how good a manager is and what tactics he plays, the individual will act as his nature. End of my opinion, obviously not yours, but everyone entitled to theirs
I thought in the play off final, after our own goal, it was Pratley who drove us on for the next 15 minutes until the rest of the team came together, or is my old memory fading?
He did some fouls and pushed someone over. He then played precisely no part whatsoever in the stunning team move that actually equalised for us
That was the whole point, the team looked flat at that point, but he chased around, got stuck in and this is what made the rest of the team get going again. You need a player like that when things go wrong and the team stops playing
Problem is with that, had we had a better player than Pratley, would we even be in that position in the first place? That’s the counter argument. Ok he got stuck in, but how many times that season did he just get ran past? A lot from my memory. When it’s all said and done he just wasn’t a very good player for us, I appreciate he gave us a hell of a moment to remember at the Valley but that’s one moment. Let’s not forget all the times he was moving like a fridge freezer.
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ball
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ball
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ball
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.
Did you see Conor Coventry at The Valley last season? I mean, Dobson himself could clearly play a bit.
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ball
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.
Did you see Conor Coventry at The Valley last season? I mean, Dobson himself could clearly play a bit.
Yes which is why Coventry won't play in league 1 next season.
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ball
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.
Did you see Conor Coventry at The Valley last season? I mean, Dobson himself could clearly play a bit.
Yes which is why Coventry won't play in league 1 next season.
Pratley didn't take games by the scruff of the neck ffs, he spoilt games and made it hard for the opposition but he never led us forward in any constructive sense. In the promotion season we were at our best without him on the pitch, in the Championship season Cullen got injured and Gallagher left, Pratley came in and we went down, and the season after that he was frankly diabolical. This narrative that he controlled games is based on the Doncaster keeper throwing him one a yard out and him pushing someone over at Wembley
As for people who took games by the scruff of the neck, Cullen, Bielik, Aribo, Gallagher and Williams all did that in the Pratley era with considerably greater effect
I will concede that Pratley did it more than Gilbey, which is to say, more than not at all
This is quite right, even if I think you sometimes underestimated Pratley’s value to us in the championship in that destroyer role. He was more than good at centre half in a 3 too .
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ball
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.
Did you see Conor Coventry at The Valley last season? I mean, Dobson himself could clearly play a bit.
Yes which is why Coventry won't play in league 1 next season.
And maybe Dobson won’t either.
Now now we are ment to be positive, now you have suggested its your fault when he signs for Millwall........
It is all very well trying to play high press possession football but what we really have to do to get out pf L1 is win games, and to win games the first thing is not to concede goals. Give me a 1-0 win rather. than a 3-2 loss any day. Conceding 54 goals in a season is not the 3 way to go.
I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad. He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
In his last season he was woeful. He was only in the team because he was Bowyer’s man through and through and Bowyer was slowly losing the dressing room and just wanted players to get stuck in as he ran out of ideas.
There were so many bad games. Overall he was a positive signing, but we should’ve got rid of him a season before we did.
Comments
We've moved on. We're discussing Darren Pratley now.
When I saw all the stats that said Swindon were first in so many categories last season in League 2 I felt I had to try to find out what they weren't so good at as they finish 6th not 1st.
Swindon scored the most goals in League 2,
77 which is a good achivement but conceding 54 goals which was more than anyone else in the top 10.
So being hit in transition may be an issue when you try to play attacking football and getting more bodies joining in the attack, when one poor pass can open you up to the counter attack. We will need faster defenders than Matthews (gone) and Purrington,(?) to perfect this system; even though Ben can have good games.
Ian Evatt at Bolton has a similar penchant for playing possession football and getting players forward. They finished 9th and at times were excellent at going for the Jugular ( 4-1 winners at the valley) yet other times they were hit on the counter attack and punished.
When Evatt took over at Barrow in his first job they were pot less and in the National League. He started with 4-2-3-1 and it didn't work but as soon as he tweaked to a 3-4-1-2
they went on a fantastic run and got promoted. Evatt said that system made them better in both penalty areas as he had 3 good headers of the ball in the back 3 and the two strikers helped each other and the goals for total.
Evatt has high intensity in training. I wonder if Ben Garner does ? Anyone know ?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
In fairness he has dropped the low block, which is good. I heard it was because we couldn’t identify the right linebackers.
The other pet peeve is people using team stats to justify a single player's performance (e.g. we won 8 games when X started) but that's another story.
I wonder if professional scouts, when putting their reports together, say things like: "He once scored in a play-off semi."
Gilbey 100%
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.
What ever it takes to get promoted