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Next manager - Ben Garner confirmed (p256)
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ShootersHillGuru said:Any thoughts on who should be captain next season or is he yet to arrive ?
Gilbey 100%14 -
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.
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I said that straight faced last October 😱😱CL_Phantom said:ShootersHillGuru said:Any thoughts on who should be captain next season or is he yet to arrive ?
Gilbey 100%3 -
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ballOggy Red said:
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.2 -
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.Leuth said:
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ballOggy Red said:
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.5 -
Did you see Conor Coventry at The Valley last season? I mean, Dobson himself could clearly play a bit.Cafc43v3r said:
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.Leuth said:
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ballOggy Red said:
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.0 -
Yes which is why Coventry won't play in league 1 next season.Leuth said:
Did you see Conor Coventry at The Valley last season? I mean, Dobson himself could clearly play a bit.Cafc43v3r said:
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.Leuth said:
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ballOggy Red said:
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.0 -
And maybe Dobson won’t either.Cafc43v3r said:
Yes which is why Coventry won't play in league 1 next season.Leuth said:
Did you see Conor Coventry at The Valley last season? I mean, Dobson himself could clearly play a bit.Cafc43v3r said:
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.Leuth said:
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ballOggy Red said:
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.1 -
This is quite right, even if I think you sometimes underestimated Pratley’s value to us in the championship in that destroyer role. He was more than good at centre half in a 3 too .Leuth said:Pratley didn't take games by the scruff of the neck ffs, he spoilt games and made it hard for the opposition but he never led us forward in any constructive sense. In the promotion season we were at our best without him on the pitch, in the Championship season Cullen got injured and Gallagher left, Pratley came in and we went down, and the season after that he was frankly diabolical. This narrative that he controlled games is based on the Doncaster keeper throwing him one a yard out and him pushing someone over at Wembley
As for people who took games by the scruff of the neck, Cullen, Bielik, Aribo, Gallagher and Williams all did that in the Pratley era with considerably greater effect
I will concede that Pratley did it more than Gilbey, which is to say, more than not at all1 -
Yeah, I had time for him at centre-half; it's where he did much of his best work for us0
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Now now we are ment to be positive, now you have suggested its your fault when he signs for Millwall........Scoham said:
And maybe Dobson won’t either.Cafc43v3r said:
Yes which is why Coventry won't play in league 1 next season.Leuth said:
Did you see Conor Coventry at The Valley last season? I mean, Dobson himself could clearly play a bit.Cafc43v3r said:
In league 1 your lucky if he has a broom, let alone can play ball.Leuth said:
It's 2022. The roadsweepers have gotta be able to play ballOggy Red said:
You do understand why Bowyer signed Pratley and what he brought to the team, don't you?Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.
I'm sure you also understand that 90% of a player's game is played without the ball?
And that the balance of the right characters in a side is as important as ability on the ball?
Years ago, when underdogs Southampton finished 2nd in what is now the Premier League, their manager was asked what was the secret of his successful side?
He answered: "Each team needs 9 virtuosos and 2 roadsweepers".
Go figure.0 -
It is all very well trying to play high press possession football but what we really have to do to get out pf L1 is win games, and to win games the first thing is not to concede goals. Give me a 1-0 win rather. than a 3-2 loss any day. Conceding 54 goals in a season is not the 3 way to go.
What ever it takes to get promoted2 -
In his last season he was woeful. He was only in the team because he was Bowyer’s man through and through and Bowyer was slowly losing the dressing room and just wanted players to get stuck in as he ran out of ideas.Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.There were so many bad games. Overall he was a positive signing, but we should’ve got rid of him a season before we did.3 -
Easy to say in hindsightcabbles said:
In his last season he was woeful. He was only in the team because he was Bowyer’s man through and through and Bowyer was slowly losing the dressing room and just wanted players to get stuck in as he ran out of ideas.Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.There were so many bad games. Overall he was a positive signing, but we should’ve got rid of him a season before we did.
3 -
Wow - Gallagher and Cullen in one list. For all the faults from that era of supporting Charlton, we didnt half get some decent players in the door.Cafc43v3r said:
Easy to say in hindsightcabbles said:
In his last season he was woeful. He was only in the team because he was Bowyer’s man through and through and Bowyer was slowly losing the dressing room and just wanted players to get stuck in as he ran out of ideas.Leuth said:
In a game where we had a two-goal aggregate lead and then shipped three unanswered before their keeper threw him one? This is what I mean by big games distorting opinions disproportionately.Oggy Red said:
Blimey, Leuth, that's rewriting history .... you can't blame Pratley for getting us relegated from the Championship. He was a key member of that side when we were riding high in the first dozen matches and never let us down. The savage injury crisis, 14 players out injured (including leading goalscorer T*yl*r), for much of the autumn/winter, did for us. Then we lost Gallagher and after the season recommenced, T*yl*r acted the asshole. Maybe also Bowyer's negativity. But you can't blame Pratley for our relegation..Leuth said:I repeat: with Pratley as a fringe player we got promoted, then when he was a regular starter we got relegated and then flailed miserably in League One and people were still pissed off when he was rightfully released
Without Pratley, perhaps we wouldn't even have been promoted at all ....... his never-say-die performance and goal against Donny and his leadership in that 1st half in the Wembley play off final when we might otherwise have collapsed completely were vital.
And that was only during games. He was a positive influence in the dressing room also. You need leaders in your squad.
He was already 36 when he was released but still athletic - compare to Ben Watson, for example, a year younger?
We know Pratley was no silky ballplayer - but Bowyer signed him to add ballwinning, backbone and grit to the side. That's what we got, didn't we?
I'm also not saying that he was a major factor in our relegation, but the fact is that we got relegated in a season where he was a key player, becoming more key as the season wore on and our form got worse. And the other fact is that we were shocking the season after, in the league below, with him starting more or less every game (once Bowyer, the Mad King, decided Levitt wasn't tough enough or whatever).
I mentioned him because someone else gave him as an example of a player who'd take a game by the scruff of the neck, the sort of player we should think about signing. I think a player like Pratley would be completely anathemical to Garner's methods, and I dispute the narrative of him as an inspirational midfielder. Where I agree is that we have lacked inspiration from midfield since the Championship season.There were so many bad games. Overall he was a positive signing, but we should’ve got rid of him a season before we did.4 -
Nailed on mateCL_Phantom said:ShootersHillGuru said:Any thoughts on who should be captain next season or is he yet to arrive ?
Gilbey 100%1 -
Agreed 100%, a mate said this feels a bit of a Karl Robinson type appointment, lots of possession, will be pretty on the eye etc. That doesn’t get you promoted out of this league as Oxford have found, we need players that can play but can also show grit on a wet Tuesday night against Accrington. Hopefully we have that in our locker too.lancashire lad said:It is all very well trying to play high press possession football but what we really have to do to get out pf L1 is win games, and to win games the first thing is not to concede goals. Give me a 1-0 win rather. than a 3-2 loss any day. Conceding 54 goals in a season is not the 3 way to go.
What ever it takes to get promoted4 -
Just when you thought the vibe has at last changed around the place (and it’s safe to go back in the water), you still have the glass half empty brigade having their two pennies worth of negativity.Rob7Lee said:
Barker and Nugent were when RD had an about turn of actually employing experience in English leagues Managers.Cafc43v3r said:
If they were Roland people not Riga etc people why did they all change when the manager did? Barker and Nugent weren't RD people.Rob7Lee said:
My understanding was they were RD people, not Luzon, Peters or Riga's.Cafc43v3r said:
Didn't Luzon, Peters and Riga all bring back room staff with them? Slade did, Robinson did. It was only after KM left and RD gave up (chicken or egg?) that Bowyer didn't?Rob7Lee said:
Much like RD TS doesn't like employing managers who want to bring their own backroom, as it's double bubble when he sacks them. I suspect it's more to do with the restrictive contracts he's offering.SoundAsa£ said:
I think TS realises that and is just playing crafty.shirty5 said:
These should be his first 2 signings before anything else is doneThe Red Robin said:https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/are-swindon-town-coaches-set-to-join-ben-garner-at-charlton-athletic-addicks-owner-thomas-sandgaard-responds/Sandgaard on Garner’s coaches joining.
I fully expect the two guys to arrive, but suspect the delay/wrangling is over terms, and not the minor compensation to Swindon. They won't be getting straight 3 year deals! We are also yet to hear/understand (nor will we likely to) the terms of Garners, could it be like Jacksons and severance will be performance related?
The Jackson contract has no bearing on anything other than Thomas didn't really want Jackson and didn't like the football. Full stop. It was a tool to get a job done. No evidence at all it's been used again.
Your either putting 2 and 2 together and making 25 or still grieving.
I agree TS had doubts about Jackson, but he does about everyone. He has a very clear vision as to what he wants and how to achieve that, which in many respects is great, if it works. Two years in and so far it's been a categoric failure and I don't see much change between simply repeating the same mistakes time after time. Anyone notice TS saying signings will likely be towards the end of the window? Has he learnt nothing from last year? Or does he believe players will be more desperate, and therefore cheaper, as the window draws to a close?
I really really hope I'm wrong and Garner becomes a massive success with us, but he'll be another manager (coach) working with an arm tied behind his back, make no mistake. We'll have a very small squad thats fit and up to speed by the 1st game, remember we're starting at the end of July this year! The window closes 1st September.....
FWIW I believe from speaking to people in the game Garner is a very respected coach, but then one of the most respected in the game was Les Read - management didn't exactly work out for him and he didn't work for an owner who wanted to dictate the style of play (AFAIK!).
As I say, I truly hope he'll be a massive success, and maybe he will and take us back to the premiership only leaving to take over from Southgate....... but the current set up and based on the last two years, he's set up to fail IMHO.
The reality is that none of us know ‘for sure’ where things are heading, however for gods sake let’s be positive and give the set up our 100% backing.
Surely that’s what being a true supporter is all about. 🫣🫣🫣13 -
I agree, I think the vibe has changed, it got nastier post managerial appointment with a collection of people taking umbrage and moaning like fuck because someone or other has a concern or worry or view on something they can’t agree with or don’t want to hear. We are all Charlton fans, we all want them to do well BUT it’s valid to have concerns and worries and expressing them on a forum, whether one agrees or not, because it is exactly what the forum is for. Let’s all step back and take a breath, don’t pick up on one little thing and get the shits. Just move on or have a cup of tea…..or an Imodium3
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I don't think we'd have made Wembley in that semi final at the Valley without him, and not just for his goal.Leuth said:Pratley didn't take games by the scruff of the neck ffs, he spoilt games and made it hard for the opposition but he never led us forward in any constructive sense. In the promotion season we were at our best without him on the pitch, in the Championship season Cullen got injured and Gallagher left, Pratley came in and we went down, and the season after that he was frankly diabolical. This narrative that he controlled games is based on the Doncaster keeper throwing him one a yard out and him pushing someone over at Wembley
As for people who took games by the scruff of the neck, Cullen, Bielik, Aribo, Gallagher and Williams all did that in the Pratley era with considerably greater effect
I will concede that Pratley did it more than Gilbey, which is to say, more than not at all
When the younger less experienced heads go down and squeaky bum time he pulled us through. Taking games by the scuff of the neck isn't always about driving forward.
A seriously underrated player in his time with us. Just ask any of the coaches or players who played with him.24 -
What vibe has changed?SoundAsa£ said:
Just when you thought the vibe has at last changed around the place (and it’s safe to go back in the water), you still have the glass half empty brigade having their two pennies worth of negativity.Rob7Lee said:
Barker and Nugent were when RD had an about turn of actually employing experience in English leagues Managers.Cafc43v3r said:
If they were Roland people not Riga etc people why did they all change when the manager did? Barker and Nugent weren't RD people.Rob7Lee said:
My understanding was they were RD people, not Luzon, Peters or Riga's.Cafc43v3r said:
Didn't Luzon, Peters and Riga all bring back room staff with them? Slade did, Robinson did. It was only after KM left and RD gave up (chicken or egg?) that Bowyer didn't?Rob7Lee said:
Much like RD TS doesn't like employing managers who want to bring their own backroom, as it's double bubble when he sacks them. I suspect it's more to do with the restrictive contracts he's offering.SoundAsa£ said:
I think TS realises that and is just playing crafty.shirty5 said:
These should be his first 2 signings before anything else is doneThe Red Robin said:https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/are-swindon-town-coaches-set-to-join-ben-garner-at-charlton-athletic-addicks-owner-thomas-sandgaard-responds/Sandgaard on Garner’s coaches joining.
I fully expect the two guys to arrive, but suspect the delay/wrangling is over terms, and not the minor compensation to Swindon. They won't be getting straight 3 year deals! We are also yet to hear/understand (nor will we likely to) the terms of Garners, could it be like Jacksons and severance will be performance related?
The Jackson contract has no bearing on anything other than Thomas didn't really want Jackson and didn't like the football. Full stop. It was a tool to get a job done. No evidence at all it's been used again.
Your either putting 2 and 2 together and making 25 or still grieving.
I agree TS had doubts about Jackson, but he does about everyone. He has a very clear vision as to what he wants and how to achieve that, which in many respects is great, if it works. Two years in and so far it's been a categoric failure and I don't see much change between simply repeating the same mistakes time after time. Anyone notice TS saying signings will likely be towards the end of the window? Has he learnt nothing from last year? Or does he believe players will be more desperate, and therefore cheaper, as the window draws to a close?
I really really hope I'm wrong and Garner becomes a massive success with us, but he'll be another manager (coach) working with an arm tied behind his back, make no mistake. We'll have a very small squad thats fit and up to speed by the 1st game, remember we're starting at the end of July this year! The window closes 1st September.....
FWIW I believe from speaking to people in the game Garner is a very respected coach, but then one of the most respected in the game was Les Read - management didn't exactly work out for him and he didn't work for an owner who wanted to dictate the style of play (AFAIK!).
As I say, I truly hope he'll be a massive success, and maybe he will and take us back to the premiership only leaving to take over from Southgate....... but the current set up and based on the last two years, he's set up to fail IMHO.
The reality is that none of us know ‘for sure’ where things are heading, however for gods sake let’s be positive and give the set up our 100% backing.
Surely that’s what being a true supporter is all about. 🫣🫣🫣
I'll be there week in week out supporting the team as always, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion outside of that, good or bad.
Theres a lot of great stuff going on, but frankly I've see nothing bar appointing a manager that gives me any view that we will do any better than last season out on the pitch. That may change of course if we have a successful window, but history is beginning to tell me that's less likely to happen than is.2 -
To the conga song:JamesSeed said:
Can we have a songs thread?killerandflash said:Ben Garner, whoah
Ben Garner, whoah
He comes from Pembury
And plays football progressively
Ben Garner plays a high press,
Ben Garner plays a high press,
La la la la
La la la la
Sandgaard likes a low block
Just as much as hard rock
La la la la
La la la la.
I'm going to be honest, not expecting this one to stick.5 -
Generally speaking and it’s very generally speaking if you play good football or football well it goes along with good results. You can’t play good football with bad players so a good footballing side by definition has good players. I’ll take our chances doing it that way rather than all this plan b bollox. Garner has already said that we’ll have a style that we’ll play home and away. I like the sound of that and the cut of Garners jib.RedRobin said:
Agreed 100%, a mate said this feels a bit of a Karl Robinson type appointment, lots of possession, will be pretty on the eye etc. That doesn’t get you promoted out of this league as Oxford have found, we need players that can play but can also show grit on a wet Tuesday night against Accrington. Hopefully we have that in our locker too.lancashire lad said:It is all very well trying to play high press possession football but what we really have to do to get out pf L1 is win games, and to win games the first thing is not to concede goals. Give me a 1-0 win rather. than a 3-2 loss any day. Conceding 54 goals in a season is not the 3 way to go.
What ever it takes to get promoted2 -
Imagine you're Ben Garner, you think now you're in post you'll just nip over and see what the Charlton fans have to say about you, and it's just pages and pages of arguing about Darren fucking Pratley. He'll have handed his notice in by tomorrow
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Or he will speak to his mate Chorley and sign him back......Garrymanilow said:Imagine you're Ben Garner, you think now you're in post you'll just nip over and see what the Charlton fans have to say about you, and it's just pages and pages of arguing about Darren fucking Pratley. He'll have handed his notice in by tomorrow1 -
Or signed Darren Pratley...Garrymanilow said:Imagine you're Ben Garner, you think now you're in post you'll just nip over and see what the Charlton fans have to say about you, and it's just pages and pages of arguing about Darren fucking Pratley. He'll have handed his notice in by tomorrow2 -
Apparently during the delayed press conference yesterday, The Sun journalist (who happened to be a Millwall supporter also ) was asked "Where's Garner?" To which he replied " Africa somewhere I think ...near Nigeria ... why dya ask?"
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There's a lot of speculation on whether this is a good appt or not. What few are talking about is probably the most important issue of all ... Is there a good song than scans with the name "Ben Garner" or not?
I've got "Ben Ben Ben Gar-ner, Ben Ben Ben Gar-ner" to the popular soccer ballad "hez-hez hez bollah hez hez hez bollah".
A quick trip to the eponymous manager's Wikipedia entry reveals a photo that makes him look like he's actually very much part of Hezbollah!!
Also in Queen's "Don't stop me now" a possible song while we are winning:
Instead of ...
"Don't stop me, don't stop me
Don't stop me, hey, hey, hey
Don't stop me, don't stop me
Ooh, ooh, ooh, I like it
Don't stop me, don't stop me
Have a good time, good time".
We've got:
"Ben Garner, Ben GarnerBen Garner hey hey heyBen Garner Ben Garner
Ooh ooh ooh I like it.
Ben Garner Ben Garner
Have a good time good time".
Anyone fancy getting started with either of those at the Dartford or Swansea warm ups next month?0 -
Lavelle or if by way of a miracle fitness wise Inniss..If neither of those, then it would have to be someone new coming in..CL_Phantom said:ShootersHillGuru said:Any thoughts on who should be captain next season or is he yet to arrive ?
Gilbey 100%0
