In my opinion all the hiring and firing going on along with the free tickets fiasco and trying to rename the women's team etc etc all points to one thing. We do not have the right people in position to advise him. But when Sandgaard goes on record saying he doesn't need a CEO to advise him and it's just common sence running a club and gaining success is just about being smarter than everyone else it does make me think that he's not learning from his previous mistakes. Until the right people are put in place I can't see things changing for the better.
Even though perhaps Jokat was underperforming, and some of the fans have mentioned that they found him and his ideas unimpressive, that is still pretty grim if true.
Not sure how they can judge performance in 6 weeks, in the off season, when the club has done little in the way of investment in the playing side!
Also I heard the opposite from unimpressive.
Sure, I’m not saying he was bad at his job, hence my use of the word ‘perhaps’. But we did have at least one fan on here discussing how his presentation around boxes was repetitive and pitched completely wrong.
My point was, and I will say it again, even if he was crap at his job (I’m not saying he is), that’s a really grim, and as mentioned bullying way, to go around things.
As a note to the meeting where Mr Jokat made his underwhelming East Stand boxes pitch, the lovely Raelynn was present and attentive to the presentation!
Think Thomas is learning why some things are done the way that they are. No doubt these are quite expensive lessons but he changes things quickly when they're not working. Feel sorry for the fans who landed dream roles at the club.
And, I will add, can it be that hard to find a CEO/Hands on Football Exec? There must be a market for people like this? Steve Kavangh went from us to Millwall via Coventry was it? Why aren’t we looking at former Championship/League one, possibly league two CEOs? Still, makes no odds if they aren’t going to be able to run it as they see fit
This adds to my growing uneasiness over how the club is being run.
Jokat and the sales team may or may not have been up to the job but if so why were they given the job and were their targets realistic in the first place?
Losing one senior manager can be misfortune, losing Roddy, Mumford (who resigned) and now Jokat (ignoring the football managers for the time being) looks like more than just carelessness.
It reeks of unrealistic expectations of how much commercial income a league 1 club can generate in a depressed economy and how many season tickets we can realistically sell.
Bleeding staff, especially those who know the business and the "customer" base, is never good.
Neither are knee jerk reactions which don't include owners reflecting on their own part in the failure.
For you to start having a negative comment on TS ownership and decision making, you know something isn’t right!
In my opinion all the hiring and firing going on along with the free tickets fiasco and trying to rename the women's team etc etc all points to one thing. We do not have the right people in position to advise him. But when Sandgaard goes on record saying he doesn't need a CEO to advise him and it's just common sence running a club and gaining success is just about being smarter than everyone else it does make me think that he's not learning from his previous mistakes. Until the right people are put in place I can't see things changing for the better.
It is clear that TS knows how to run a business but naive when running a football club. He has and is continuing to make mistakes and as you say he hasn't had the right people in position to advise him. The majority of us have always said we need a CEO, preferably with football experience but still we await that appointment.
This adds to my growing uneasiness over how the club is being run.
Jokat and the sales team may or may not have been up to the job but if so why were they given the job and were their targets realistic in the first place?
Losing one senior manager can be misfortune, losing Roddy, Mumford (who resigned) and now Jokat (ignoring the football managers for the time being) looks like more than just carelessness.
It reeks of unrealistic expectations of how much commercial income a league 1 club can generate in a depressed economy and how many season tickets we can realistically sell.
Bleeding staff, especially those who know the business and the "customer" base, is never good.
Neither are knee jerk reactions which don't include owners reflecting on their own part in the failure.
For you to start having a negative comment on TS ownership and decision making, you know something isn’t right!
One thing I have noticed over the last few months, a number of people that have left Charlton from Sales and Marketing side, have gone on to be employed by companies that have sponsored the club, they clearly must be good people, and left an impression with these people.. be interested to know how many members of non playing staff has TS let go/sacked since he took over!
I’ve had calls from the commercial dept (which I am happy to receive), but they were trying to sell boxes and ticket upgrades etc - at a time when we had no manager and no new signings.
The thinking didn’t sound very joined-up to me.
As a l long term ST holder, I am struggling to get excited about going to the early games at all !
If it’s another season of unwatchable passing back to the keeper and kicking it across the centre circle, then I won’t be rushing to go - let alone any kind of upgrade.
This precisely why I have yet to renew. Probably further away from renewing than I was when the season finished. Looks like I will go match to match again. Missed opportunity.
Dan Burke was the clubs Fans Liasion Officer, a role the club must have to be within the EFL rules. They may get around this by having the Fans Advisor (Lucy) cover that from the voluntary role
I doubt that. Would think Fan Liaison Officer would be a proper paid role, or else it would be less than a box ticking exercise.
Dan Burke was the clubs Fans Liasion Officer, a role the club must have to be within the EFL rules. They may get around this by having the Fans Advisor (Lucy) cover that from the voluntary role
I doubt that. Would think Fan Liaison Officer would be a proper paid role, or else it would be less than a box ticking exercise.
So they have made someone redundant when they will then replace them with someone else?
I’ve got no idea whether this is right, but wouldn’t senior management positions (ie HR) have to be accredited accordingly by the appropriate governing body as such - does Mrs Sandgaard have this qualification??
As I say, I have no idea whether this is right but surely there’s legal safeguards in place to stop company owners doing things like this?
Certain professions and titles are protected, for example you can't go round calling yourself a paramedic or dentist without an appropriate qualification.
However anyone in theory could apply for head of HR post, you'd be very unlikely to even be considered though by any business of a similar size to Charlton without a degree or masters in a HR related topic. My friend works at Lidl and although very competent in her field they won't even consider her for an entry level HR role without a degree.
Whilat there's nothing to stop you appointing your spouse as head of HR i doubt you'd see it ever happen at any business worth its salt. HR is a minefield and you only need to make one wrong decision when managing an employee and it can end up costing you thousands in employment tribunals etc, so most companies will want to know the advice they are getting is from someone appropriately qualified to give that advice.
In the same respect I doubt you would find many businesses where the owner employs their wife as head of HR, I would think that would open up you up to all kinds of issues in terms of impartiality in any investigations, disciplinary hearings, tribunals etc. Plus there's all kinds of questions about whether your spouse is likely to tell you if your making a bad decision, or whether there'll keep quiet and allow you to make a bad judgement call which could cost you big time in the long run.
People say about Raelynn not having an official role but I think it’s becoming growingly clear she is now heavily engaged and having a wide impact on the decision making behind the scenes.
Not automatically saying that’s a bad thing, she could be amazing for all I know and it could be a huge benefit for the club. We’ll see in the medium term.
But for a multi-million pound business Charlton structurally is increasingly looking a complete mess.
Bar Gallen, there is absolutely no real senior experience in the structure now and no one to effectively upward challenge. His son has a background of production manager in his medical business is now a key part of the football recruitment arm , and his partner with a background (as far I’m aware) in psychology and child mindfulness is now heavily involved in the running of the non-football business.
From the outside, the impression is square pegs look like they’re being forced into round holes. Any senior appointments outside of family just aren’t lasting. And the number of employees that actually genuinely care about the club seems to be shrinking quite quickly.
This could all be over-dramatised but objectively it’s not looking very professional or progressive.
I was in one of the east stand boxes for the last game of the season(shrewsbury i think). The service was shocking, waitress didn't know what beers were available, took about 20 minutes to get a second round of drinks. Food was lukewarm. For £1k that is terrible value, we complained and got a freeby in one of the west stand lounges for next season. Wonder if there have been other similar complaints.
Something seriously wrong here, not sure Jokat doing or TS.. Maybe Jokat couldn't work under the forever moving goalpost!
Are you able to expand on what might have changed for him during the short period since his arrival? Was it to do with sales targets or job remit?
I don't know about Jokat, but certainly for Mumford that was the case.. Sounds like Jokat went because he told a certain someone to stop getting involved, in stuff they shouldn't be.. TS took exception to it!
Still sounds like a bit of a mess behind the scenes if true. You can’t appoint a COO and then have your other half (however well qualified), in a non formal position sticking their beak in. That’s not a conducive way to run the club. Does Raelynn have that sort of say in Zynex? Part of me think TS still doesn’t understand what he’s bought when I see examples like this. Appreciate I am only going off of what is said above, but if he wants to offer Raelynn a role, do it properly. Appoint her as head of HR or whatever role like he has done his lad with Director of Analytics, move her over here and get on with it. None of this ‘oh, I can dip in and out of decision making, depending on the problem.’
I have no idea if Jokat was good, bad or indifferent, but successful businesses are built on appointing senior people and allowing them to lead. Otherwise, don’t bother.
When you read of this stuff it gives the impression that it’s a step forward (appointing Garner, new approach etc), quickly followed by a step back. Seems to be a pattern emerging during his tenure.
As always, grateful for everything he’s given financially, still feel that he deserves the time only 2 years in, but the execution, from the outside looking in, isn’t great
Sandgaard capital is described as being a family run office, think you can dress it as, she's a stakeholder, Thomas is the face of it. Dunno, don't have an idea how the top of the corporate food chain works.
In regard to her role (s) at zynex HR and coms as below.
I am yet to be convinced that cryptic currency and bitcoins are anything more than some kind of pyramid selling bollocks. 2+4-5=1 there you go, a non fungicide token, where do I collect my car?
That’s exactly what crypto currency is . One big ponzi scheme
I’ve got no idea whether this is right, but wouldn’t senior management positions (ie HR) have to be accredited accordingly by the appropriate governing body as such - does Mrs Sandgaard have this qualification??
As I say, I have no idea whether this is right but surely there’s legal safeguards in place to stop company owners doing things like this?
Indeed. The Chartered institute of Personnel and Development, of which I was a Fellow before retiring. The qualification is equivalent to a Masters Degree.
Just sounds like he is trying to do things on the cheap and on the hoof. Wonder how the club will cope at future Employment Tribunals.
IMO Sandgaard doesn't need to know everything but if he hires the right people and gives them some power, that is the route to success. In relation to the playing side, I wish Ben Garner all the best, but I think there is no certainty there and it is fair to say that JJ had not succeeded but he had also not failed so why not be ready to act when it is clear what side he was going to fall on rather than introduce a new risk too soon that will be harder to change if it doesn't work. Which I hope it does of course.
There have been a lot of appointments that haven't worked out and if Sandgaard had somebody responsible for these appointments, he would propably have sacked him. I am of the view that if he invests in the side and Garner is a good manager, we can be successful on the pitch. And I am hoping success on the pitch will focus Thomas so that we don't get the ridiculous situation that we saw with Roland the last time we got out of this league.
It is very much a case of we shall see than we know though and I would love to feel a bit more comfortable about management behind the scenes. It is why, like others I have doubts. Not about Sandgaards desire to do well and his financial ability to acheive, but more his lack of knowledge in this area and allied to that, his lack of willingness to do something about it.
This adds to my growing uneasiness over how the club is being run.
Jokat and the sales team may or may not have been up to the job but if so why were they given the job and were their targets realistic in the first place?
Losing one senior manager can be misfortune, losing Roddy, Mumford (who resigned) and now Jokat (ignoring the football managers for the time being) looks like more than just carelessness.
It reeks of unrealistic expectations of how much commercial income a league 1 club can generate in a depressed economy and how many season tickets we can realistically sell.
Bleeding staff, especially those who know the business and the "customer" base, is never good.
Neither are knee jerk reactions which don't include owners reflecting on their own part in the failure.
For you to start having a negative comment on TS ownership and decision making, you know something isn’t right!
Been thinking the same for a while now. If HI is uneasy start worrying!
Dan Burke was the clubs Fans Liasion Officer, a role the club must have to be within the EFL rules. They may get around this by having the Fans Advisor (Lucy) cover that from the voluntary role
I doubt that. Would think Fan Liaison Officer would be a proper paid role, or else it would be less than a box ticking exercise.
So they have made someone redundant when they will then replace them with someone else?
Surely if money was that tight we'd be training at Sparrows lane instead of having the entire squad in Spain?
This has to be down to them deciding some roles just aren't worth what we're spending on salaries rather than a cost cutting necessity.
Possibly but football clubs often have a strange mindset that they try to save money on the non-football side (which is a small fraction of costs) rather than on the football side (where all the money goes) because it is easier and less expensive to sack non-football staff as well as not, usually, being as public or damaging reputation wise.
And it does beg the question of why the roles were deemed worthwhile two months ago but not now? What's changed?
This adds to my growing uneasiness over how the club is being run.
Jokat and the sales team may or may not have been up to the job but if so why were they given the job and were their targets realistic in the first place?
Losing one senior manager can be misfortune, losing Roddy, Mumford (who resigned) and now Jokat (ignoring the football managers for the time being) looks like more than just carelessness.
It reeks of unrealistic expectations of how much commercial income a league 1 club can generate in a depressed economy and how many season tickets we can realistically sell.
Bleeding staff, especially those who know the business and the "customer" base, is never good.
Neither are knee jerk reactions which don't include owners reflecting on their own part in the failure.
For you to start having a negative comment on TS ownership and decision making, you know something isn’t right!
Been thinking the same for a while now. If HI is uneasy start worrying!
I've told Thomas that I'm prepared to run the museum for nothing other than a regular supply of club cardigans.
Theres no certainty with any football manager appointment, its a combination of things coming together(players,manager) that creates success in football imo.
I’ve got no idea whether this is right, but wouldn’t senior management positions (ie HR) have to be accredited accordingly by the appropriate governing body as such - does Mrs Sandgaard have this qualification??
As I say, I have no idea whether this is right but surely there’s legal safeguards in place to stop company owners doing things like this?
Indeed. The Chartered institute of Personnel and Development, of which I was a Fellow before retiring. The qualification is equivalent to a Masters Degree.
Just sounds like he is trying to do things on the cheap and on the hoof. Wonder how the club will cope at future Employment Tribunals.
I doubt weve even sold the 6000 season tickets they told us had been sold. I'm betting another shit season and the club will be up for sale this time next year.
Comments
We do not have the right people in position to advise him.
But when Sandgaard goes on record saying he doesn't need a CEO to advise him and it's just common sence running a club and gaining success is just about being smarter than everyone else it does make me think that he's not learning from his previous mistakes.
Until the right people are put in place I can't see things changing for the better.
This has to be down to them deciding some roles just aren't worth what we're spending on salaries rather than a cost cutting necessity.
However anyone in theory could apply for head of HR post, you'd be very unlikely to even be considered though by any business of a similar size to Charlton without a degree or masters in a HR related topic. My friend works at Lidl and although very competent in her field they won't even consider her for an entry level HR role without a degree.
Whilat there's nothing to stop you appointing your spouse as head of HR i doubt you'd see it ever happen at any business worth its salt. HR is a minefield and you only need to make one wrong decision when managing an employee and it can end up costing you thousands in employment tribunals etc, so most companies will want to know the advice they are getting is from someone appropriately qualified to give that advice.
In the same respect I doubt you would find many businesses where the owner employs their wife as head of HR, I would think that would open up you up to all kinds of issues in terms of impartiality in any investigations, disciplinary hearings, tribunals etc. Plus there's all kinds of questions about whether your spouse is likely to tell you if your making a bad decision, or whether there'll keep quiet and allow you to make a bad judgement call which could cost you big time in the long run.
Not automatically saying that’s a bad thing, she could be amazing for all I know and it could be a huge benefit for the club. We’ll see in the medium term.
From the outside, the impression is square pegs look like they’re being forced into round holes. Any senior appointments outside of family just aren’t lasting. And the number of employees that actually genuinely care about the club seems to be shrinking quite quickly.
I'm guessing that's she's not been head of HR anywhere?
Sandgaard capital is described as being a family run office, think you can dress it as, she's a stakeholder, Thomas is the face of it. Dunno, don't have an idea how the top of the corporate food chain works.
In regard to her role (s) at zynex HR and coms as below.
Got all stalker for you @Chris_from_Sidcup
Just sounds like he is trying to do things on the cheap and on the hoof. Wonder how the club will cope at future Employment Tribunals.
There have been a lot of appointments that haven't worked out and if Sandgaard had somebody responsible for these appointments, he would propably have sacked him. I am of the view that if he invests in the side and Garner is a good manager, we can be successful on the pitch. And I am hoping success on the pitch will focus Thomas so that we don't get the ridiculous situation that we saw with Roland the last time we got out of this league.
It is very much a case of we shall see than we know though and I would love to feel a bit more comfortable about management behind the scenes. It is why, like others I have doubts. Not about Sandgaards desire to do well and his financial ability to acheive, but more his lack of knowledge in this area and allied to that, his lack of willingness to do something about it.
And it does beg the question of why the roles were deemed worthwhile two months ago but not now? What's changed?
HR managers normally were expected to be CIPD qualified but not sure it was a legal requirement as with doctors or lawyers?
And is my CIPD diploma equivalent to a masters? Never knew that but if true I'm smarter than I thought : - 0
I'm betting another shit season and the club will be up for sale this time next year.