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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)
Comments
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Airman Brown said:MuttleyCAFC said:I would say that we have been criminally mismanaged in the last 15 years. Sandgaard would IMO be best ensuring he is not part of the continuation of that but part of the end of it. Then he can play his music on a loop at the Valley and say what he likes without any criticism from me.Plenty of good Charlton supporters putting in their own money and wanting the best for the club following relegation in 2007.3
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MuttleyCAFC said:paulfox said:MuttleyCAFC said:Then lay off fans like Blackpool FFS and just see what happens like the rest of us.ONCE AGAIN I PROMPT YOU TO READ AFKAS COMMENT EARLIER,WHICH WOULD SUGGEST MY VIEWS ARE ALIGNED WITH THE MAJORITY, PLEASE TELL ME IF I NEED TO WRITE IT BIGGER FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND, OR MAYBE SPECSAVERS MAY BE AN OPTION,AND STOP ACCUSING ME OF HAVING A GO AT PEOPLE LIKE SOME KIND OF BULLY BECAUSE IM FAR FROM THAT. I DEBATE AND COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLES VIEWS AS WE ALL DO.Muttley I have NEVER personally attacked anyone for not supporting TS, and would never do so. If that’s what you believe I urge you to find evidence OF PERSONAL ATTACK. I disagree and sometimes agree. You are suggesting to people something I am not… no more from me on this, not clogging up the thread.
actually apologies you will find one attack at AIRMAN in retaliation, which has been dealt with privately and apologised for. You would be welcome to get that confirmed if you’d like.0 -
MuttleyCAFC said:Airman Brown said:MuttleyCAFC said:I would say that we have been criminally mismanaged in the last 15 years. Sandgaard would IMO be best ensuring he is not part of the continuation of that but part of the end of it. Then he can play his music on a loop at the Valley and say what he likes without any criticism from me.Plenty of good Charlton supporters putting in their own money and wanting the best for the club following relegation in 2007.11
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paulfox said:MuttleyCAFC said:paulfox said:MuttleyCAFC said:Then lay off fans like Blackpool FFS and just see what happens like the rest of us.ONCE AGAIN I PROMPT YOU TO READ AFKAS COMMENT EARLIER,WHICH WOULD SUGGEST MY VIEWS ARE ALIGNED WITH THE MAJORITY, PLEASE TELL ME IF I NEED TO WRITE IT BIGGER FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND, OR MAYBE SPECSAVERS MAY BE AN OPTION,AND STOP ACCUSING ME OF HAVING A GO AT PEOPLE LIKE SOME KIND OF BULLY BECAUSE IM FAR FROM THAT. I DEBATE AND COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLES VIEWS AS WE ALL DO.8
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lancashire lad said:paulfox said:MuttleyCAFC said:paulfox said:MuttleyCAFC said:Then lay off fans like Blackpool FFS and just see what happens like the rest of us.ONCE AGAIN I PROMPT YOU TO READ AFKAS COMMENT EARLIER,WHICH WOULD SUGGEST MY VIEWS ARE ALIGNED WITH THE MAJORITY, PLEASE TELL ME IF I NEED TO WRITE IT BIGGER FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND, OR MAYBE SPECSAVERS MAY BE AN OPTION,AND STOP ACCUSING ME OF HAVING A GO AT PEOPLE LIKE SOME KIND OF BULLY BECAUSE IM FAR FROM THAT. I DEBATE AND COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLES VIEWS AS WE ALL DO.0
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MuttleyCAFC said:I would say that we have been criminally mismanaged in the last 15 years. Sandgaard would IMO be best ensuring he is not part of the continuation of that but part of the end of it. Then he can play his music on a loop at the Valley and say what he likes without any criticism from me.0
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But criminally seems somewhat over the top.0
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Criminally wasn't meant literaly but as we have been run by criminals it was an unfortunate choice. Sandgaard seems to me to be a decent man and I do like him believe it or not. But I think he listens to the wrong people and I think getting rid of Jacko was misguided. As a Charlton legend, I think he deserved a bit more respect and time. I am not sure where I am with him and I think by now I should be.0
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We’re cool 🤓0
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MuttleyCAFC said:Criminally wasn't meant literaly but as we have been run by criminals it was an unfortunate choice. Sandgaard seems to me to be a decent man and I do like him believe it or not. But I think he listens to the wrong people and I think getting rid of Jacko was misguided. As a Charlton legend, I think he deserved a bit more respect and time. I am not sure where I am with him and I think by now I should be.
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catfordmorry said:But criminally seems somewhat over the top.4
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MuttleyCAFC said:Criminally wasn't meant literaly but as we have been run by criminals it was an unfortunate choice. Sandgaard seems to me to be a decent man and I do like him believe it or not. But I think he listens to the wrong people and I think getting rid of Jacko was misguided. As a Charlton legend, I think he deserved a bit more respect and time. I am not sure where I am with him and I think by now I should be.
The reason I continue to have a pop at him is because I don't believe he knows anywhere near enough about running a football club.
Instead of appointing a CEO with the experience needed to advise him he has given his son and girlfriend positions within the club for what they are not experienced in.
When asked about getting promotion and becoming successful as a club he says things like.
You just need common sense
Or
You just need to be smarter than everyone else.
I don't believe we will ever be successful unless he completely changes tack and starts employing the right people to advise him.
This is of course just my opinion and if people like Paulfox or others disagree that's fine by me.30 -
blackpool72 said:MuttleyCAFC said:Criminally wasn't meant literaly but as we have been run by criminals it was an unfortunate choice. Sandgaard seems to me to be a decent man and I do like him believe it or not. But I think he listens to the wrong people and I think getting rid of Jacko was misguided. As a Charlton legend, I think he deserved a bit more respect and time. I am not sure where I am with him and I think by now I should be.
The reason I continue to have a pop at him is because I don't believe he knows anywhere near enough about running a football club.
Instead of appointing a CEO with the experience needed to advise him he has given his son and girlfriend positions within the club for what they are not experienced in.
When asked about getting promotion and becoming successful as a club he says things like.
You just need common sense
Or
You just need to be smarter than everyone else.
I don't believe we will ever be successful unless he completely changes tack and starts employing the right people to advise him.
This is of course just my opinion and if people like Paulfox or others disagree that's fine by me.1 -
blackpool72 said:MuttleyCAFC said:Criminally wasn't meant literaly but as we have been run by criminals it was an unfortunate choice. Sandgaard seems to me to be a decent man and I do like him believe it or not. But I think he listens to the wrong people and I think getting rid of Jacko was misguided. As a Charlton legend, I think he deserved a bit more respect and time. I am not sure where I am with him and I think by now I should be.
The reason I continue to have a pop at him is because I don't believe he knows anywhere near enough about running a football club.
Instead of appointing a CEO with the experience needed to advise him he has given his son and girlfriend positions within the club for what they are not experienced in.
When asked about getting promotion and becoming successful as a club he says things like.
You just need common sense
Or
You just need to be smarter than everyone else.
I don't believe we will ever be successful unless he completely changes tack and starts employing the right people to advise him.
This is of course just my opinion and if people like Paulfox or others disagree that's fine by me.0 -
We have had a bottom half season in League One. We ended the previous season just outside the play offs. Adkins was not able to change anything as he was appointed to deliver this brilliant new system which would see us storm the league. It took Jacko to throw it in the bin and this season we seem to have come up with this new magic system and appointed a manager committed to play it. It feels like the same mistake to me.
I think we have been in League One long enough so I am expecting us to get out or at least have a bloody good go at it this season. I didn't see anything to suggest this is going to happen on Saturday but it is still early days. I'm not allowed to say there are not enough goals in the team so I won't. You can either see the obvious or you can't. Mind you, ditching one up front and bringing in a Stockton and it all changes potentially so you could argue we are not far off. But if nobody gets it, we might as well be a million miles away.4 -
MuttleyCAFC said:We have had a bottom half season in League One. We ended the previous season just outside the play offs. Adkins was not able to change anything as he was appointed to deliver this brilliant new system which would see us storm the league. It took Jacko to throw it in the bin and this season we seem to have come up with this new magic system and appointed a manager committed to play it. It feels like the same mistake to me.
I think we have been in League One long enough so I am expecting us to get out or at least have a bloody good go at it this season. I didn't see anything to suggest this is going to happen on Saturday but it is still early days. I'm not allowed to say there are not enough goals in the team so I won't. You can either see the obvious or you can't. Mind you, ditching one up front and bringing in a Stockton and it all changes potentially so you could argue we are not far off. But if nobody gets it, we might as well be a million miles away.
I must admit, I'm still holding out for a couple of new faces to add a sprinkle of magic dust, but I think if we could land this Palace guy, it could change the mindset of a few, myself included. We need to get from likely improvement to promotion potential, and fast.0 -
swordfish said:MuttleyCAFC said:We have had a bottom half season in League One. We ended the previous season just outside the play offs. Adkins was not able to change anything as he was appointed to deliver this brilliant new system which would see us storm the league. It took Jacko to throw it in the bin and this season we seem to have come up with this new magic system and appointed a manager committed to play it. It feels like the same mistake to me.
I think we have been in League One long enough so I am expecting us to get out or at least have a bloody good go at it this season. I didn't see anything to suggest this is going to happen on Saturday but it is still early days. I'm not allowed to say there are not enough goals in the team so I won't. You can either see the obvious or you can't. Mind you, ditching one up front and bringing in a Stockton and it all changes potentially so you could argue we are not far off. But if nobody gets it, we might as well be a million miles away.
I must admit, I'm still holding out for a couple of new faces to add a sprinkle of magic dust, but I think if we could land this Palace guy, it could change the mindset of a few, myself included. We need to get from likely improvement to promotion potential, and fast.
What Guardiola does is he has a system and buys players that fit it. He can. Or a manager might inherit a team with a lot of the right type of players that may open up the system as an option but for the owner just to decide is crazy. Well it is what happened last season. We had this idea of a Charlton way of playing, but whose idea was it? Roddy's? I am just calling what I see. If we make some good signings that make it all work I can't complain. I'm not sure we have yet.1 -
AFKABartram said:Well I’m going into the season with 100% support. Personality wise he’s a marmite character (that I don’t particularly align to) and some of the criticisms are definitely valid. But many others are unjust and OTT, and the scrutiny of every word coming out his mouth with an eye to challenge or criticise is going too far imo.People are looking for unrealistic perfection; the ideal owner equally prepared to lose tens of millions on our club. I’ve learnt it’s never going to be perfect with us.Sandgaard says some outlandish things and is equally as belligerent. But he seems committed to making us a success and confident in himself and people closest to him that that’s his best route to achieving it. Another year of failure will undoubtedly challenge that and everyone will be fully justified in making clear that lessons just haven’t been learned.But until that failure manifests itself I’m going to try and be positive and supportive in a project that is no doubt costing a fortune to keep us running.Come on Thomas, get it right. Let’s have a great season8
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MuttleyCAFC said:swordfish said:MuttleyCAFC said:We have had a bottom half season in League One. We ended the previous season just outside the play offs. Adkins was not able to change anything as he was appointed to deliver this brilliant new system which would see us storm the league. It took Jacko to throw it in the bin and this season we seem to have come up with this new magic system and appointed a manager committed to play it. It feels like the same mistake to me.
I think we have been in League One long enough so I am expecting us to get out or at least have a bloody good go at it this season. I didn't see anything to suggest this is going to happen on Saturday but it is still early days. I'm not allowed to say there are not enough goals in the team so I won't. You can either see the obvious or you can't. Mind you, ditching one up front and bringing in a Stockton and it all changes potentially so you could argue we are not far off. But if nobody gets it, we might as well be a million miles away.
I must admit, I'm still holding out for a couple of new faces to add a sprinkle of magic dust, but I think if we could land this Palace guy, it could change the mindset of a few, myself included. We need to get from likely improvement to promotion potential, and fast.
What Guardiola does is he has a system and buys players that fit it. He can. Or a manager might inherit a team with a lot of the right type of players that may open up the system as an option but for the owner just to decide is crazy. Well it is what happened last season. We had this idea of a Charlton way of playing, but whose idea was it? Roddy's? I am just calling what I see. If we make some good signings that make it all work I can't complain. I'm not sure we have yet.
A lot of the players we signed last summer have already left or are the players people have question marks about, in this system, which is the system we signed them for in the first place.0 -
I think it would be fair to say that nearly all professional clubs were badly "managed" in the early 2000's.
The TV money and general popularity of the game were soaring and very few clubs were able to adjust and make best use of the financial possibilities available. Charlton were probably not particularly worse or better than anybody else at that time.
It's easy and unfair to make judgements in hindsight but that doesn't mean something isn't true!
So I think Thomas is correct. The club has been "mismanaged for decades" but let's not be too defensive about it. So were most other clubs. The difference is we obviously didn't get our act together in the latter decade!
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I think it is fair to say that Murray did a great job realising that Curbs was a fantastic manager and running the club around that. Where he went wrong was to change things when Curbs left to a new system that took a lot of power and responsibility away from the manager.
My belief is that the best owners find the best manager, often through chance which is why I like the idea of caretakers until you find the right one. Curbs was the cheap option, Bowyer was the cheap option. Let them show what they can do and if they can't try somebody else.
It feels to me that the club is Sandgaards toy and it is very much down to his whims and judgement and sadly I don't have much faith in that. I want to, I wish I did but I haven't got the rose tint feature which can hide what I have seen and am seeing. He isn't a crook and wants to succeed and he has invested, but I fear he has wasted a lot of it because his model is too tight and controlling. It is always going to be a manager that brings you success, but it is such an important job for the owner to create the conditions for that success. The most important job of all really.
All my hopes are on Garner has he has as much chance of success as any other we might bring in. It is just if it doesn't work out, Jacko or Euell could have been given until October. Like Adkins, it might take longer and be more expensive if Garner is not a success and that is the season finished. I have a strong belief that interviews in football are for the egos of those doing them.1 -
stevexreeve said:I think it would be fair to say that nearly all professional clubs were badly "managed" in the early 2000's.
The TV money and general popularity of the game were soaring and very few clubs were able to adjust and make best use of the financial possibilities available. Charlton were probably not particularly worse or better than anybody else at that time.
It's easy and unfair to make judgements in hindsight but that doesn't mean something isn't true!
So I think Thomas is correct. The club has been "mismanaged for decades" but let's not be too defensive about it. So were most other clubs. The difference is we obviously didn't get our act together in the latter decade!
In what period was Charlton or the game better run, from a business perspective?
Remember he made a particular (and false) financial claim and identified the directors as irresponsible.
Sandgaard genuinely thinks the club should be selling out every week in L1 and that he can triple the revenue. He gets rid of people who tell him these things can’t be done and employs those who tell him it can, until they fail because they are just telling him what he wants to hear in order to take his money while they can.I do understand the merit of wanting to challenge the conventional wisdom and disrupting the accepted ways of doing things, but on these issues he is simply in denial. He will continue to waste time and burn through his recruits, blaming staff, until he grasps the reality of the market in which he is operating. And that is mismanagement, by him. He is chasing rainbows and his whole approach is based on the idea that he alone can catch them.38 -
I would say, and it is my firm belief, that the team we had up to the point Parker was sold was the fourth best in the country. That falls just within two decades. And of course, whilst we never matched that height, we had success after that too.
What has upset me in that time is the small windows of opportunity that have not been snatched. We can go back to selling Andy Reid and bringing in Andy Gray which pretty much cost us a play off place at a key time IMO. Then you have something special happening with Powell and him having the rug pulled when we were clearly on to something. Even then we could have rebuilt but Yellow Tooth undermined him and instead of building on what we still had (Yann and Morrison to name but two) followed a path which was flawed and sadly what he bought the club for. And as Katrien said, if we didn't like it, tough. After that, we had Bowyer who was not supported at all after his fantastic achievement in getting us promoted. We only just missed out on staying up due to an incompetent ref at Barnsley despite a weak squad and the club being sold to crooks without any care.
Last season, our summer was chaotic and delusional IMO and that was under this owner. Yes, this summer has been slightly better but the bar is about as low as you can get. And I am not happy at our striking options going into the season. It is great that Leaburn is looking good, but unfair to stake so much on him. I see Sandgaard happily blaming everybody else when he hasn't exactly been great so far. And that is a fact seeing as he is on his 4th manager and we are still in this league and looking likely to stay there.9 -
MuttleyCAFC said:I would say, and it is my firm belief, that the team we had up to the point Parker was sold was the fourth best in the country. That falls just within two decades. And of course, whilst we never matched that height, we had success after that too.0
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Well 2000 to 2004 were the best years I have experienced as a Charlton fan in terms of the ability of the team/quality of players. If Sandgaard ever gets us to a similar level we will worship him as our God. Can't see it myself and somebody should give the bloke a history lesson.10
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MuttleyCAFC said:Well 2000 to 2004 were the best years I have experienced as a Charlton fan in terms of the ability of the team/quality of players. If Sandgaard ever gets us to a similar level we will worship him as our God. Can't see it myself and somebody should give the bloke a history lesson.1
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The main issue I have with Sandgaard's approach and a lot of his media/press stuff is that it very much strikes me as someone chucking bricks from inside a house of glass.
If we had seen/were seeing a big improvement either on the pitch or in terms of revenue etc then maybe him decrying past regimes would be easier to swallow, but for all his criticism and ambition, we've stood still AT BEST under his leadership this far.
Maybe we were badly run before, maybe we weren't but it strikes me that RIGHT NOW, under the sole management of Sandgaard and associates, we're middling league one and probably not likely to change that in the immediate future. Hardly a sign of revolutionary good management, IMO.21 -
_MrDick said:boggzy said:EugenesAxe said:0
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thenewbie said:The main issue I have with Sandgaard's approach and a lot of his media/press stuff is that it very much strikes me as someone chucking bricks from inside a house of glass.
If we had seen/were seeing a big improvement either on the pitch or in terms of revenue etc then maybe him decrying past regimes would be easier to swallow, but for all his criticism and ambition, we've stood still AT BEST under his leadership this far.
Maybe we were badly run before, maybe we weren't but it strikes me that RIGHT NOW, under the sole management of Sandgaard and associates, we're middling league one and probably not likely to change that in the immediate future. Hardly a sign of revolutionary good management, IMO.2 -
Some of us are not content with it and are criticised for it.6