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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

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  • charlton_hero
    charlton_hero Posts: 4,665
    edited September 2022
    shine166 said:
    It says a lot, when 100s of people like myself have stumped up cash for a ST and still can't be arsed to go. 
    I went last night and I don't think I'll bother for a while. This club is going nowhere under Sandgaard.
  • king addick
    king addick Posts: 3,699
    This isnt defence of TS when I ask this question but realistically what can we expect if TS sells? Who is out there? Who would want to take the chance on us? More importantly, are we as a club, financially worth it? 

    Again not a loaded question and no right or wrong answer but I am curious as to what is out there & peoples opinions.
  • Stonewallpenalty19
    Stonewallpenalty19 Posts: 317
    Kindoncasella said:
    Rob said:
    Garnerball was looking promising after the Plymouth game but since then everything has fallen apart and our players are being shown up as just not good enough. Or, is it the coaching that is being shown up as just not good enough! So much for needing 2 more windows to make us promotion challengers. Looks to me like Garner is starting to run out of ideas. The wheels may very well be coming off the bus and it’s all down to penny pinching by our owner. That’s how I see it anyway. Not good times to be a Charlton fan. We are well and truly going backwards. Who fancies L2 next year? That’s where we could well be heading. 

    Managers can only do so much with what they are given..
    So why sack Jackson?
  • MarcusH26
    MarcusH26 Posts: 8,033
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was an American "group" with some kind of existing sports background. They seem to be the type of people investing in clubs at the moment. Norwich have just sold 10% to the Milwaukee Brewers owner. 
  • king addick
    king addick Posts: 3,699
    Stonewallpenalty19 said:
    Kindoncasella said:
    Rob said:
    Garnerball was looking promising after the Plymouth game but since then everything has fallen apart and our players are being shown up as just not good enough. Or, is it the coaching that is being shown up as just not good enough! So much for needing 2 more windows to make us promotion challengers. Looks to me like Garner is starting to run out of ideas. The wheels may very well be coming off the bus and it’s all down to penny pinching by our owner. That’s how I see it anyway. Not good times to be a Charlton fan. We are well and truly going backwards. Who fancies L2 next year? That’s where we could well be heading. 

    Managers can only do so much with what they are given..
    So why sack Jackson?
    The football under Garner is better and whilst we limping along at the moment, the football under Jackson was truly awful. If Jackson was in charge, we would have lost last night.
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,459
    king addick said:
    This isnt defence of TS when I ask this question but realistically what can we expect if TS sells? Who is out there? Who would want to take the chance on us? More importantly, are we as a club, financially worth it? 

    Again not a loaded question and no right or wrong answer but I am curious as to what is out there & peoples opinions.
     A very difficult question to answer.
    There certainly was, at some stage big money characters looking to get involved. But as always the big stumbling block is Duchatelet.
    As painful as it may seem,until such a time comes that we are able completely able to rid ourselves if this parasite the club will never move forward,regardless of who's name is above the door imo.
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,273
    carly burn said:

    Not factually incorrect.  I think all fans would rather their respective clubs were fully self-financing and did not need rich benefactors to keep them going.  But that is not reality and has not been for decades.  

    TS knew (or should have done) that when he purchased us.  We won't/can't break even in L1, and realistically won't/can't in the Championship if we wish to be competitive.

    He still purchased us and whilst doing so boasted about how he was a risk taker and had a high risk appetite which is why he could get the deal done.  It appears that rather than a high risk appetite he was, in fact, utterly naive and irresponsible with his lax diligence and risk appetite and has discovered that to his own cost. Now desperately trying to break even and shift blame.

    This club had a multitude of problems before he purchased us but he is driving income down through nonsense pricing, daft free ticket offers and broadcasting our games for £10 to whole households rather which further puts off the desire of those who may otherwise have attended.

    As for Leo's batshit crazy view of £48 per ticket if we are top of L1, I despair.  Maybe take an average league position across our whole history, when we get there (say mid table Championship at a guess), tickets are £20. Every place above, add £1. Every place below and TS is under performing so deduct £1.  We would be free entry currently which,.on a rainy day, would still be a difficult choice to attend!
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    edited September 2022
    I think we have to take a step back and ask ourselves why Sandgaard bought us. For me, his ego told him he could take us to the Premier League and had he done that, he would have a big return on his investment, especially if he sold up to a rich buyer which wouldn't have surprised me and of course we wouldn't have begrudged him doing so.

    Of course had he not been an idiot when it comes to football and he did make a fianancial killing flipping the club, he wouldn't have passed any of it onto the fans. It is simple how you get more fans watching the team. You give them something to enjoy and get behind. You show them things are on an upward curve. If you make it a totally depressing thing thanks to your mistakes, I don't know what you as an owner expect.

    Sandgaard is not the sort to own his failure and then it is everybody else's fault.
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  • Bailey
    Bailey Posts: 3,265
    aliwibble said:
    tangoflash said:
    I seriously wish he'd just take his plastic rock music and fuck off back to the land of razzle dazzle. I have stated in the past and will do so again that he's a wrong un and no better than roland. Sure, roland starved us, but he at least had the decency to tell us there would be no dinner. TS brags about all he's going to do, yet constantly fails to put anything on the table. 3 years into his 5 year plan and all we have to show for it is a squad full of poundland players and crocks. It's a sad state of affairs when we're having to pin all our hopes on a young lad on loan from Surrey. As for "Garnerball", we were warned by swindon fans about no end product and that's certainly proving to be the case. Our current league position is a true reflection of where we are as a club. Does anyone know where I can purchase 5000 plastic pigs?
    I don't think he's a wrong'un, I just think Hanlon's razor applies here: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
    Perfect analogy. 
  • Smithy
    Smithy Posts: 1,022
    I could not agree more with Lauren Kreamer’s thread. If this is what the echo chamber of the Sandgaard family boardroom sounds like then things are even worse than I thought.

    It does make me wonder if this ridiculous break even idea is nothing to do with selling the club but rather just another genius incentive by the owner that he genuinely thinks can work.
  • tom_k
    tom_k Posts: 1,207
    We are so lucky to have Lauren Kreamer.
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    aliwibble said:
    tangoflash said:
    I seriously wish he'd just take his plastic rock music and fuck off back to the land of razzle dazzle. I have stated in the past and will do so again that he's a wrong un and no better than roland. Sure, roland starved us, but he at least had the decency to tell us there would be no dinner. TS brags about all he's going to do, yet constantly fails to put anything on the table. 3 years into his 5 year plan and all we have to show for it is a squad full of poundland players and crocks. It's a sad state of affairs when we're having to pin all our hopes on a young lad on loan from Surrey. As for "Garnerball", we were warned by swindon fans about no end product and that's certainly proving to be the case. Our current league position is a true reflection of where we are as a club. Does anyone know where I can purchase 5000 plastic pigs?
    I don't think he's a wrong'un, I just think Hanlon's razor applies here: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
    You can add in the Dunning-Kruger effect to that as well.  Whereby people with low ability, expertise, or experience regarding a certain type of a task or area of knowledge tend to overestimate their ability or knowledge. 
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    What a clown, £2 per league position, as I just tweeted I'll be expecting a bit of a refund on my season ticket soon then  :D
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,917
    edited September 2022
    Il give them £4 a point for next years ST, or they can fuck off. Stick your 'perks' up your arse too.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    Rob said:
    Garnerball was looking promising after the Plymouth game but since then everything has fallen apart and our players are being shown up as just not good enough. Or, is it the coaching that is being shown up as just not good enough! So much for needing 2 more windows to make us promotion challengers. Looks to me like Garner is starting to run out of ideas. The wheels may very well be coming off the bus and it’s all down to penny pinching by our owner. That’s how I see it anyway. Not good times to be a Charlton fan. We are well and truly going backwards. Who fancies L2 next year? That’s where we could well be heading. 
    Bit of an over reaction Rob. I agree about the penny pinching but, as someone else pointed out, our stats are very good but we’re been let down by our ability to stick the ball in the net.
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,477
    MarcusH26 said:
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was an American "group" with some kind of existing sports background. They seem to be the type of people investing in clubs at the moment. Norwich have just sold 10% to the Milwaukee Brewers owner. 
    “What made Milwaukee famous made a loser outa me.” 
    Jerry Lee Lewis.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    msomerton said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Leo clearly understands football more than TS
    I am not sure he does, from the very first day that the football clubs in the Northwest of England became professional in the late 1870s then clubs have needed wealthy owners to fund them. in this case many a mill owner or steel works owner.
    in that time the vast majority of clubs have been loss making entities..
    I’d like to know if there’s ever been real research on this. For many years players were on a very low maximum wage (£8), and transfer fees were tiny, but at the same time crowds were very large. The major outgoings were the costs involved in building stands and general infrastructure. 
    A crowd of 50,000 paying three shillings (15p) in the early half of the last century would have raised £7,500, with a 20,000 crowd raising £3,000. Eleven players on max wage would cost £88. 
    I imagine the main running cost would be bank loans?
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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    There is another factor at play. A small team like say FGR can potentially break even in League One but a team with our structure can never unless we become the size of FGR and find a small ground somewhere.
  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 2,972
    king addick said:
    This isnt defence of TS when I ask this question but realistically what can we expect if TS sells? Who is out there? Who would want to take the chance on us? More importantly, are we as a club, financially worth it? 

    Again not a loaded question and no right or wrong answer but I am curious as to what is out there & peoples opinions.
    no football club is financialy worth it. Wealthy owners taken them on as a challenge and for the kudos of successes.
    People will point at the Glazers, but they bought Man U by loading the debit accrued for buying the club on the club. in its self ManU 
    would be in trouble if the debits were not a moderatly friendly ones if you consider the interest payments friendly.
  • bolloxbolder
    bolloxbolder Posts: 7,960
    I remember one of Sandgaard's first statements was that he is quite stubborn. Therein lies the problem.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    There is another factor at play. A small team like say FGR can potentially break even in League One but a team with our structure can never unless we become the size of FGR and find a small ground somewhere.
    There is a conversation here that, sooner or later, has to happen.  There are far too many "red lines" that would need to be crossed, for it to ever happen though.

    The alternative is to keep spinning the ownership wheel of fortune and hope it comes up trumps in most of our life times.
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    Cafc43v3r said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    There is another factor at play. A small team like say FGR can potentially break even in League One but a team with our structure can never unless we become the size of FGR and find a small ground somewhere.
    There is a conversation here that, sooner or later, has to happen.  There are far too many "red lines" that would need to be crossed, for it to ever happen though.

    The alternative is to keep spinning the ownership wheel of fortune and hope it comes up trumps in most of our life times.
    There certainly has to come a point where there aren't enough Billionaires for the Sport for all teams to survive.

    The fact we suddenly appear to be going through owners, like most clubs go through Managers is not a good / healthy look.
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,737
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    I think we have to take a step back and ask ourselves why Sandgaard bought us. For me, his ego told him he could take us to the Premier League and had he done that, he would have a big return on his investment, especially if he sold up to a rich buyer which wouldn't have surprised me and of course we wouldn't have begrudged him doing so.

    Of course had he not been an idiot when it comes to football and he did make a fianancial killing flipping the club, he wouldn't have passed any of it onto the fans. It is simple how you get more fans watching the team. You give them something to enjoy and get behind. You show them things are on an upward curve. If you make it a totally depressing thing thanks to your mistakes, I don't know what you as an owner expect.

    Sandgaard is not the sort to own his failure and then it is everybody else's fault.
    Indeed, Mutts.

    He obviously doesn't know the phrase " Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail ."
  • StrikerFirmani
    StrikerFirmani Posts: 2,742
    JamesSeed said:
    Rob said:
    Garnerball was looking promising after the Plymouth game but since then everything has fallen apart and our players are being shown up as just not good enough. Or, is it the coaching that is being shown up as just not good enough! So much for needing 2 more windows to make us promotion challengers. Looks to me like Garner is starting to run out of ideas. The wheels may very well be coming off the bus and it’s all down to penny pinching by our owner. That’s how I see it anyway. Not good times to be a Charlton fan. We are well and truly going backwards. Who fancies L2 next year? That’s where we could well be heading. 
    Bit of an over reaction Rob. I agree about the penny pinching but, as someone else pointed out, our stats are very good but we’re been let down by our ability to stick the ball in the net.
    That's ok then, only the most important thing to win games.  If only the EFL would give points for tippy tappy football.
  • Valley11
    Valley11 Posts: 11,985
    This is feeling horribly familiar 

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