Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)
Comments
-
I'm being facetious above... it isn't familiar at all. Sandgaard wants the best for the club but doesn't have the knowledge (and probably resources) to run it correctly... his heart is in the right place, Roland didn't give a fuckValley11 said:This is feeling horribly familiar12 -
He’s not suggesting cheap tickets though, he’s suggesting a pricing structure that is bizarre and would be hugely difficult to implement as well as massively counterproductive. No one will pay £48 for division 3 football, and the only cheap tickets will be available if we are a shit 3rd division team. I’m not sure where any fan will win from that approach.CAFCsayer said:
Why all the lols? A director suggesting cheap tickets is surely a positive?Scoham said:Looks like he’s deleted these but fortunately there’s a screenshot.
4 -
It shows he is as much an idiot as Sandgaard. Fans are not going to pay full whack and then hope to get a refund based of our finishing position. Fans will pay more when the product is worth it within reasonable limits. His job is in part to make it worth it. A promising season this season and you can charge higher prices next if fans believe better times are on the way. In these hard times if we are given something to support which is competently run, a lot of us will support it. Some of us will not reward idiots as they will ultimately damage our club further by being so. Not many of us will pay to be hit on the head with a hammer and that is what I liken supporting us in League One to be. It is about time Sandgaard and Rifkind understand that. If the ticket was £1, I wouldn't buy it at the moment because it is a depressing and frustrating experience.7
-
We are still shit. 2 wins in 8. I think we have a case of the emporers clothes when it comes to this brand of football.king addick said:
The football under Garner is better and whilst we limping along at the moment, the football under Jackson was truly awful. If Jackson was in charge, we would have lost last night.Stonewallpenalty19 said:
So why sack Jackson?Kindoncasella said:Rob said:Garnerball was looking promising after the Plymouth game but since then everything has fallen apart and our players are being shown up as just not good enough. Or, is it the coaching that is being shown up as just not good enough! So much for needing 2 more windows to make us promotion challengers. Looks to me like Garner is starting to run out of ideas. The wheels may very well be coming off the bus and it’s all down to penny pinching by our owner. That’s how I see it anyway. Not good times to be a Charlton fan. We are well and truly going backwards. Who fancies L2 next year? That’s where we could well be heading.
Managers can only do so much with what they are given..
There's a couple more awful shots but other than that it's been dreadful.2 -
And we are sinking and sinking fast.2
-
I do believe that if we had a few more players with composure in the final third we would be up there. That is both final ball and goal scoring attributes. But we don't. And we haven't really tried, IMO, to address that issue. Morgan will never score goals because he is a misser. CBT may do as he does get the chances but he seems incabable of addressing his lack of composure. I assume Garner and his coaching team are working hard on this as with composure, CBT on the left cutting in would be a terrific weapon. Fraser is a midfielder who can score goals so we can't afford not to have him. JFC can score goals and Payne may be able to as well.
Inniss was a real threat not long ago but maybe because he is scared of getting injured, he has gone backwards. Stockley has been beaten by the system. I have seen him play with this lack of confidence for Preston. A confident Stockley would have scored last night from one of the few decent balls in. Leaburn is trying to lay off the ball and play others in all the time. He is quite good at it but he was playing as our lone centre forward FFS!2 -
Clubs f@cked.
0 -
Can't believe we're here again4
-
Well I think he's on to something personally. With a squad we have a couple of quid ain't bad a ticket. Forward thinker that leo.0
-
Fingers too big meant to like that. Sorry.superclive98 said:I wonder how long it will take TS to realise that his plan to fill The Valley is actually emptying it.Agree with you superclive980 - Sponsored links:
-
I mean is it really rocket science?
Yes the football being attractive and winning will always increase crowds but outside of that, all you can do is set the prices at a sensible level - vary by opposition, seat position, concessions if you want and away you go.
I don't think we're in any danger of underselling the seats, put it that way...2 -
It isn't rocket science as you say but that will only get you so far. The product has to be one where you can see improvement and/or hope. If you see it going backwards it will always have a downward pressure on numbers and visa versa. If owners forget they are in an entertainment industry they are in trouble. I can only speak for myself and I suspect some will not admit to it but secretly agree, but what entertains me is winning.jams said:I mean is it really rocket science?
Yes the football being attractive and winning will always increase crowds but outside of that, all you can do is set the prices at a sensible level - vary by opposition, seat position, concessions if you want and away you go.
I don't think we're in any danger of underselling the seats, put it that way...2 -
For such an extrovert, it’s almost laughingly ironic that this reaction has come in a 24hrs Sandgaard hasn’t done, said or played anything!6
-
think he's just angry we drew to some trees.AFKABartram said:For such an extrovert, it’s almost laughingly ironic that this reaction has come in a 24hrs Sandgaard hasn’t done, said or played anything!5 -
@AFKABartram, when emails are being sent from an HR account that aren’t qualified for that position a Twitter account is easy sorted. 😉0
-
You’ve lost me mate???T_C_E said:@AFKABartram, when emails are being sent from an HR account that aren’t qualified for that position a Twitter account is easy sorted. 😉0 -
Leo Rifkind is / was / dunno what he is doing now, TS’ solicitor at Freshfields (magic circle law firm) - Freshfields handled the takeover by TS
For what it’s worth
As for his knowledge of owning a professional football club, and the nuances of such ‘ownership’ in terms of how much they matter to their communities / supporters - again, no idea
His Twatter posts however, well we are all welcome to draw our own personal opinions from ….3 -
I didn’t see what you’d written.CAFCsayer said:
I'm being facetious above... it isn't familiar at all. Sandgaard wants the best for the club but doesn't have the knowledge (and probably resources) to run it correctly... his heart is in the right place, Roland didn't give a fuckValley11 said:This is feeling horribly familiar
My point was about members of an owner’s entourage, who know very little about football, suggesting ridiculous ideas about changing the way a British football club is run - when, actually, if they appointed a proper football ceo in the first place, all would be fine.Ticket prices based on where the club is in the league, after a shite display against FGR, is one step below sofas, shagging on the pitch and house music in a football pub.1 -
There appears to be an increasing contrast between publicly stated objectives and what I expect are privately held objectives with each phase of this ownership.
At the outset of the takeover the fanbase was so wrapped up in the euphoria of the club being prised out of the clutches crooked owners with ill intentions it failed to (or chose to ignore) the alarm bells that started to quietly chime early doors with guitar clasping, sunglasses shod photo shoots accompanied by talk of "Premier League" in 5 years and European football.
So seduced were elements of the fanbase by regular twitter interaction, private LinkedIn messages, beers and songs in pubs that few stopped to question how realistic this was particularly in light of the Duchatelet ownership of the club's real assets and the reality it was not a Man City/ Newcastle infinite funding resource takeover that we'd previously been conned into hoping the ESI shambles was (oh...we're not f***in rich after all).
Those of us non plussed with pitchside parading guitar shows ahead of being completely outplayed at a home v (presumed) promotion rivals Sheffield Wednesday and evident gulf in perceived potential heard the alarm bells grow louder and the sense of unease so familiar in the past decade were told to be optimistic and stop doomngering and that we just needed to believe that Nigel Adkins and Papa Suare were going to lead us to the promised land and see us hosting Man United and even Milan in a few seasons.
Now in the early days perhaps there was naivety and unfiltered optimism from Sandgaard, who in complete contrast to dour Duchatelet, had a dream and a prayer and told everyone about it. Whilst some of us, eternally damaged and cynical after the 3 prior failed regimes, were cautious and resolved to wait for tangible actions to back up the seductive soundbites before we would run merrily through the cornfields like an over exuberant former PM, it was refreshing all the same.
Early signs looked good in a proven managerial appointment in Adkins (on paper to most of us at least despite prominent concerns by others which transpired to be correct), outwardly impressive SMT appointments in Mumford, Roddy et al and serious intent of obtaining CAT 1 academy status.
It really did feel, for a short time at least, that perhaps we were gearing up to be "Premier League ready" off the pitch and the minor details like the on the pitch stuff that would actually get us there would all just sort it out if we just were more patient, believed harder and quit whining like entitled kids after each deflating transfer window/ sub par footballing performance.
And back then such was the owner's naivety and enthusiasm that perhaps he did truly believe these objectives.
Talk of "blowing the league out of the water", having the best negotiator in the business in Gallen etc can still be put down to naivety albeit less forgivable as each month passed with significant SMT departures and a seeming reluctance to get football people in who know the game and the business and would surely add to the likelihood of achieving said objectives or at least give a needed wake up call as to how outlandish they may be.
Even finishing in our lowest league position since octogenarian midfield general Ben Watson's great great grandad was in short trousers did little to quell the cultish and messianic fervour and those that questioned the substance of words were told to believe harder and give him time to unwind the legacy problems of a 3rd division football club that are apparently so complex and abundant they make the chaos of the sub prime mortgage toxic debt resolution look like an episode of Playschool.
Those of us who questioned the appropriateness of a third rate cock rock vanity project replacing the outwardly twee but intrinsically very special and soulful Red Red Robin tradition, or using said track to dominate post match atmosphere before the ref's final whistle had even been removed from his lips were lambasted for being killjoys/ miserable joyless fuckers always looking to moan, which whilst might be true dampened the concerns that were being raised about the likely reality of achieving such outlandish stated objectives.
Messianic cultish fervour increased and the pedestal was in place based largely on little more than the repeated rhetoric of "he saved us, he's not esi / Duchatelet, it's his club, you find £50m" etc failing to note that the very same rhetoric could perhaps be applied to one or perhaps 2 previous owners and that merely alone was not sound basis for good stewardship of our sacred club.
Why oh why are Charlton fans so quick to embrace and trust the credentials/ ability and or intentions of each new owner so soon before they've proved themselves and so keen to savage the well intentioned concerns/scepticism/ pessimism of fellow lifelong fans who crave success and good stewardship as much as they do.
None of the stated objectives have been anywhere achieved to date. A reasonably impressive looking early SMT team of experienced football professionals has been replaced by family who know less about the game than most on here with Gallen in place as the fall guy to be paraded out to try and spin yet another lacklustre and potential missing transfer window.
The latest publicly objective of breaking even in league one whilst laudable in principle is ludicrous in the economic reality of clubs of our size in League One. Charlton are not going to be the vanguard of English footballing sustainability. We can just about run our own twitter account these days after stripping the back office bare for what must equate to relative penny savings in the big scheme of things.
Announcing prohibitive and overly convoluted pricing strategies on the precipice of a cost of living crisis then, with today's latest twitter on goal trying to dress it up as "outta the box thinking" when it is the business equivalent of Partridge's last desperate stand "monkey tennis" just underlines that still, this far in, they just don't get it.
And that is why we find ourselves on a rainy Wednesday scratching around trying to find the positives in a home draw v Forest Green Rovers, 14th in league one and 2 wins in 8 with a deficient squad and unproven manager being asked to do what looks increasingly impossible.
The difference now being surely even now the ownership surely doesn't believe it possible to achieve the latest new break even objective....entirely impossible without further neglect/ detriment to the squad which has it's own potential implications in significantly reducing revenue implications. There's very little else to cut off the field salary wise without leaving us resembling the Dog n Duck.
And 2 months into a new season the club shop resembles a nostalgic tribute to a soviet era supermarket in terms of limited offerings available to disappointed punters queuing to part with their hard earned.
The club is broken top to bottom and there does not appear to be the nous, resources, interest or wherewithal to reform it in the way it's needed. It's fairly obvious we're in the endgame of the ownership as the tail end of the transfer window and Garner's thinly veiled subdued home truth comments revealed.
He's looking surely to get out and limit further losses and the money pit and it will likely get spun as "abusive social media pressure"/ lack of fan interest etc which whilst partially valid (and the former being wholly unacceptable) would not tell the story that was a complete disparity between words and actions and very much over promising and significantly undelivering that were the conduit for such fan reaction, whether legitimate or not (social media abuse not legitimate obviously).
Surely the owner knows the latest objective is little more than a doctrine to frame the lack of investment in the squad/ scaling back of the back office and non sensical pricing "strategy" and is wholly unachievable without significant detriment to the club's league position and size.
God help us if not and God help him moreso as it will be a very expensive lesson for his bank balance otherwise.
Happy Wednesday 😊
56 -
We were there so we know. But when we increased our fans and filled the Valley, and then extended it's capacity, we were improving as a club year on year with a good manager and staff all pulling in the same direction. There isn't a short cut where you can opt out of the only way to grow the club because you haven't got a clue how to run a successful football club. You can't say we don't know how to get out of League One so we will try to break even here. It just won't work. We should not be in League One. We don't have a devine right not to be in it but if we give up getting out of it, we are not going to just be happy going along and watching FGR get something at the Valley. Sorry Sandgaard, but the fact you believe that shows everything that is wrong with your approach.6
- Sponsored links:
-
Not gonna quote it - but is the post by @RodneyCharltonTrotta the longest in CL history !!!
Happy to be told of a longer one !!2 -
Can I repeat my monthly statement that I've been saying for well over 18 months now;
TS, the cuddlier, friendlier version of RD.
The biggest issue is he has no one around him that will disagree with him at a senior level, as he fills those voids with yes men/women.
I don't believe for one moment someone as bright as Rifkind truly believes what he's saying, he's just towing the TS line to remain in the circle.
TS needs some cold hard truths, sadly I don't see anyone available who would do so, not anyone he would remotely listen to anyway.
For all of RD's faults, and he had many, there were some he'd listen to (to a degree), Katrien wasn't brave enough but LdT I feel was and was actually a lot more help than hindrance even though to a degree he had a basis to work within, I do believe he won some battles with RD.
We somehow need someone inside with the respect of TS to fight some of the battles. You have to chose your fights and have to accept sometimes you'll lose, but that's the balance.15 -
All the signs are that Thomas now realises that this venture is destined to end in failure.8
-
We can't know of course but I wouldn't be suprised if what Rifkind came out with is the narrative at the SMT meetings. They just don't get it sadly and it has become clear they never will as they don't want to listen to anybody who disagrees with their approach. It is the fans' fault.Rob7Lee said:Can I repeat my monthly statement that I've been saying for well over 18 months now;
TS, the cuddlier, friendlier version of RD.
The biggest issue is he has no one around him that will disagree with him at a senior level, as he fills those voids with yes men/women.
I don't believe for one moment someone as bright as Rifkind truly believes what he's saying, he's just towing the TS line to remain in the circle.
TS needs some cold hard truths, sadly I don't see anyone available who would do so, not anyone he would remotely listen to anyway.
For all of RD's faults, and he had many, there were some he'd listen to (to a degree), Katrien wasn't brave enough but LdT I feel was and was actually a lot more help than hindrance even though to a degree he had a basis to work within, I do believe he won some battles with RD.
We somehow need someone inside with the respect of TS to fight some of the battles. You have to chose your fights and have to accept sometimes you'll lose, but that's the balance.3 -
Grapevine 👋👋Lordflashheart said:Not gonna quote it - but is the post by @RodneyCharltonTrotta the longest in CL history !!!
Happy to be told of a longer one !!5 -
13 -
-
Grapevine: Hold my sherry....Lordflashheart said:Not gonna quote it - but is the post by @RodneyCharltonTrotta the longest in CL history !!!
Happy to be told of a longer one !!18
