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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

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Comments

  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    RonnieMoore said:
    king addick said:
    This isnt defence of TS when I ask this question but realistically what can we expect if TS sells? Who is out there? Who would want to take the chance on us? More importantly, are we as a club, financially worth it? 

    Again not a loaded question and no right or wrong answer but I am curious as to what is out there & peoples opinions.
    Like before TS no one they all run scared of the financial package, debt  and losses  and cost of getting rid of the crooks … after going through what TS did to get the club no way he going to put our future in jeopardy by spending way above our means … TS is doing the right thing , fans can shout and throw toys out the pram because Man City beat  us to Haaland if we are not wasting money on players no better then what we have in our squad or youth level ……
    They could but not one of them has.
  • superclive98
    superclive98 Posts: 4,766
    Off_it said:
    RonnieMoore said:
    Isawsummersplay said:
    I I bought tickets for the Exeter game for myself and two of my sons which cost me almost £90. I was going to hold them over until the game is rearranged. After last night, and the obtuse statement by this Johnny-come-lately upstart Rifkind, I have just emailed the club asking for a full refund. 
    Having supported the club for 64 years, and a season ticket holder for 40 years until this season, I very much doubt I will be returning to watch a game for the foreseeable future. 
    Congratulations Mr Rifkind, you have done something even Duchatelet and Meire couldn’t do. You have made me turn my back on the club I love more than you will ever know.
    He had no connection to the club in what he said .. and has since been reprimanded by TS .. 
    "No connection to the club" other than being a director of it.

    You don't half talk some tosh.
    And I'm sure that the reprimand was really stinging. 
  • Stonewallpenalty19
    Stonewallpenalty19 Posts: 317
    RonnieMoore said:
    king addick said:
    This isnt defence of TS when I ask this question but realistically what can we expect if TS sells? Who is out there? Who would want to take the chance on us? More importantly, are we as a club, financially worth it? 

    Again not a loaded question and no right or wrong answer but I am curious as to what is out there & peoples opinions.
    Like before TS no one they all run scared of the financial package, debt  and losses  and cost of getting rid of the crooks … after going through what TS did to get the club no way he going to put our future in jeopardy by spending way above our means … TS is doing the right thing , fans can shout and throw toys out the pram because Man City beat  us to Haaland if we are not wasting money on players no better then what we have in our squad or youth level ……

    Persoclb74 said:
    Clubs f@cked.

    Personally glad that some aren't willing to Happy clap their way to the conference south under another bunch of morons. 
  • The Prince-e-Paul
    The Prince-e-Paul Posts: 6,688
    Wondering how financially viable success is at League One level. Readng The Star, I see that Wednesdays first team squad have 19 players, whom have played at Championship or higher. That isn't going to be cheap to assemble or pay the monthly bills. 
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,670
    RonnieMoore said:
    king addick said:
    This isnt defence of TS when I ask this question but realistically what can we expect if TS sells? Who is out there? Who would want to take the chance on us? More importantly, are we as a club, financially worth it? 

    Again not a loaded question and no right or wrong answer but I am curious as to what is out there & peoples opinions.
    Like before TS no one they all run scared of the financial package, debt  and losses  and cost of getting rid of the crooks … after going through what TS did to get the club no way he going to put our future in jeopardy by spending way above our means … TS is doing the right thing , fans can shout and throw toys out the pram because Man City beat  us to Haaland if we are not wasting money on players no better then what we have in our squad or youth level ……
    If you could get a promote for wumming you would have about 500.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,032
    blackpool72 said:
    RonnieMoore said:
    king addick said:
    This isnt defence of TS when I ask this question but realistically what can we expect if TS sells? Who is out there? Who would want to take the chance on us? More importantly, are we as a club, financially worth it? 

    Again not a loaded question and no right or wrong answer but I am curious as to what is out there & peoples opinions.
    Like before TS no one they all run scared of the financial package, debt  and losses  and cost of getting rid of the crooks … after going through what TS did to get the club no way he going to put our future in jeopardy by spending way above our means … TS is doing the right thing , fans can shout and throw toys out the pram because Man City beat  us to Haaland if we are not wasting money on players no better then what we have in our squad or youth level ……
    If you could get a promote for wumming you would have about 500.
    1000 for being a sad bugger.
  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,048
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Wondering how financially viable success is at League One level. Readng The Star, I see that Wednesdays first team squad have 19 players, whom have played at Championship or higher. That isn't going to be cheap to assemble or pay the monthly bills. 
    Wondering how Wednesday are doing this. Seem not to have paid out much in transfers (even Famewo is only showing as £54k…that last season with us obviously screwed any hope Norwich had of getting a few hundred grand), but they don’t seem to have brought in any income from transfers out. They were already taking the proverbial with FFP, with their dodgy stadium deal and the local sponsors who didn’t exist. Surely something still not right there. 
  • bertpalmer
    bertpalmer Posts: 1,774
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Wondering how financially viable success is at League One level. Readng The Star, I see that Wednesdays first team squad have 19 players, whom have played at Championship or higher. That isn't going to be cheap to assemble or pay the monthly bills. 
    and we cant even afford to play JFC ,I thought he might use the wages saved on Bonne not signing 
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,737
    bertpalmer said:
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Wondering how financially viable success is at League One level. Readng The Star, I see that Wednesdays first team squad have 19 players, whom have played at Championship or higher. That isn't going to be cheap to assemble or pay the monthly bills. 
    and we cant even afford to play JFC ,I thought he might use the wages saved on Bonne not signing 
    That's far too simple an explanation, bert. 
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  • EugenesAxe
    EugenesAxe Posts: 3,284
    RonnieMoore said:
    Isawsummersplay said:
    I I bought tickets for the Exeter game for myself and two of my sons which cost me almost £90. I was going to hold them over until the game is rearranged. After last night, and the obtuse statement by this Johnny-come-lately upstart Rifkind, I have just emailed the club asking for a full refund. 
    Having supported the club for 64 years, and a season ticket holder for 40 years until this season, I very much doubt I will be returning to watch a game for the foreseeable future. 
    Congratulations Mr Rifkind, you have done something even Duchatelet and Meire couldn’t do. You have made me turn my back on the club I love more than you will ever know.
    He had no connection to the club in what he said .. and has since been reprimanded by TS .. 
    ah I see you’ve lapped up Thomas’s spin on this.
    Rifkind is a non exec Director and he was talking about the club for which he is in that roll, how can that possibly not be connected?
  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    edited September 2022
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
  • superclive98
    superclive98 Posts: 4,766
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Steve Gritt, although a club legend, did not lead us to the Premier League.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,034
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Christ, now I’m depressed! 

    I think there’s always hope, at least in the short term, but I have to admit that we feel* further away from the Championship/second tier than we ever have in my lifetime. 

    *I don’t know if we are further from promotion statistically, mathematically or any other objective measurement you care to use, I just have absolutely no belief that there’s a chance of promotion any time soon. 
  • jacob_CAFC
    jacob_CAFC Posts: 2,063
    se9addick said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Christ, now I’m depressed! 

    I think there’s always hope, at least in the short term, but I have to admit that we feel* further away from the Championship/second tier than we ever have in my lifetime. 

    *I don’t know if we are further from promotion statistically, mathematically or any other objective measurement you care to use, I just have absolutely no belief that there’s a chance of promotion any time soon. 
    Just feels like we need so much to be able to get into the Championship. Everything needs to come together perfectly, players and management as well as other clubs in the league not being as strong. I do think if we had got Sangaard the season we got promoted into the Championship rather the season after, we'd all feel a lot differently about him (positively) 
  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,234
    se9addick said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Christ, now I’m depressed! 

    I think there’s always hope, at least in the short term, but I have to admit that we feel* further away from the Championship/second tier than we ever have in my lifetime. 

    *I don’t know if we are further from promotion statistically, mathematically or any other objective measurement you care to use, I just have absolutely no belief that there’s a chance of promotion any time soon. 
    There is an argument to say we are slowly building and the future's bright, but don't expect me to make it forcefully because I think it's 50/50 at best as to whether we go forwards or backwards from here.
  • Stonewallpenalty19
    Stonewallpenalty19 Posts: 317
    jacob_CAFC said:
    se9addick said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Christ, now I’m depressed! 

    I think there’s always hope, at least in the short term, but I have to admit that we feel* further away from the Championship/second tier than we ever have in my lifetime. 

    *I don’t know if we are further from promotion statistically, mathematically or any other objective measurement you care to use, I just have absolutely no belief that there’s a chance of promotion any time soon. 
    Just feels like we need so much to be able to get into the Championship. Everything needs to come together perfectly, players and management as well as other clubs in the league not being as strong. I do think if we had got Sangaard the season we got promoted into the Championship rather the season after, we'd all feel a lot differently about him (positively) 
    I disagree. I think they would of not respected the championship either and thought it would be easy peasey  
  • jacob_CAFC
    jacob_CAFC Posts: 2,063
    Stonewallpenalty19 said:
    jacob_CAFC said:
    se9addick said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Christ, now I’m depressed! 

    I think there’s always hope, at least in the short term, but I have to admit that we feel* further away from the Championship/second tier than we ever have in my lifetime. 

    *I don’t know if we are further from promotion statistically, mathematically or any other objective measurement you care to use, I just have absolutely no belief that there’s a chance of promotion any time soon. 
    Just feels like we need so much to be able to get into the Championship. Everything needs to come together perfectly, players and management as well as other clubs in the league not being as strong. I do think if we had got Sangaard the season we got promoted into the Championship rather the season after, we'd all feel a lot differently about him (positively) 
    I disagree. I think they would of not respected the championship either and thought it would be easy peasey  
    I think it would have been easier to keep the momentum of the promotion season going, plus think about how close we were to staying up even with the outrageous amount of injuries we had. One extra point and we would have stayed up, without chancers like ESI at the hem, who knows who we would have signed. 
  • Stonewallpenalty19
    Stonewallpenalty19 Posts: 317
    jacob_CAFC said:
    Stonewallpenalty19 said:
    jacob_CAFC said:
    se9addick said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Christ, now I’m depressed! 

    I think there’s always hope, at least in the short term, but I have to admit that we feel* further away from the Championship/second tier than we ever have in my lifetime. 

    *I don’t know if we are further from promotion statistically, mathematically or any other objective measurement you care to use, I just have absolutely no belief that there’s a chance of promotion any time soon. 
    Just feels like we need so much to be able to get into the Championship. Everything needs to come together perfectly, players and management as well as other clubs in the league not being as strong. I do think if we had got Sangaard the season we got promoted into the Championship rather the season after, we'd all feel a lot differently about him (positively) 
    I disagree. I think they would of not respected the championship either and thought it would be easy peasey  
    I think it would have been easier to keep the momentum of the promotion season going, plus think about how close we were to staying up even with the outrageous amount of injuries we had. One extra point and we would have stayed up, without chancers like ESI at the hem, who knows who we would have signed. 
    See your point. But I have absolutely no faith these would even know what they are doing  regardless of league.


  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    edited September 2022
    superclive98 said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Steve Gritt, although a club legend, did not lead us to the Premier League.
    No you're right.  I suppose I was thinking of that whole era of pushing on despite all the challenges.  It seems that a bit of canny player purchase and good management was enough then and I am not sure it is now.
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  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    se9addick said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Christ, now I’m depressed! 

    I think there’s always hope, at least in the short term, but I have to admit that we feel* further away from the Championship/second tier than we ever have in my lifetime. 

    *I don’t know if we are further from promotion statistically, mathematically or any other objective measurement you care to use, I just have absolutely no belief that there’s a chance of promotion any time soon. 
    I've got a throat infection and I'm feeling sorry for myself so I thought I'd drag you all into my misery.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    edited September 2022
    jacob_CAFC said:
    se9addick said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    I believe that there is very little hope we will ever play at a higher level.  I have pretty well stopped worrying about whether we will be anything other than a 3rd division club.  I hope we don't become a 4th division club. The competition is significantly more challenging and the costs massively higher than they were when Curbs and Gritt led us to the prem, twice, and the chances of getting and staying there are diminishingly small. The stadium is not sustainable going forward and I think we will be at a smaller ground in the not too distant future. 
    Christ, now I’m depressed! 

    I think there’s always hope, at least in the short term, but I have to admit that we feel* further away from the Championship/second tier than we ever have in my lifetime. 

    *I don’t know if we are further from promotion statistically, mathematically or any other objective measurement you care to use, I just have absolutely no belief that there’s a chance of promotion any time soon. 
    Just feels like we need so much to be able to get into the Championship. Everything needs to come together perfectly, players and management as well as other clubs in the league not being as strong. I do think if we had got Sangaard the season we got promoted into the Championship rather the season after, we'd all feel a lot differently about him (positively) 
    The problem with that is that most fans were very positive about Sandgaard when he came in. For me, you have to have the same knowledge of football as he has to think he has done any sort of decent job. But he spent money, just badly and that would apply whenever he took over. Many on here don't feel he can ever be successful. He had a chance to back what seems to be a decent enough manager and he hasn't. These opportunities present themselves from time to time but at decreasing intervals and missing them seems to be the Charlton way whoever owns us. 
  • Bailey
    Bailey Posts: 3,265
    I think that the current crop of youngsters will, in twelve months time, be the bedrock of the side and despite TS's failure to bring in much fire power up front, the players brought in pre season are decent value and are hungry for success at this level. I still think that TS would quite happily sell but with no respectable bid being out there he will be faced with some decisions as to how protect his interest and money. There isn't a major selling asset within the squad at the moment, even though Miles Leaburn looks to have the qualities needed. If Garner manages to get the side in or around the playoff places by January, seems remote but football is a funny old game, where would that leave TS ? Would he gamble ? Loans in that window are obviously over a shorter term but more harder to achieve, purchasing players without players leaving are just as difficult but with the current mood of the fans TS faces a dilemma. Short term investment or a quickly emptying ground costing him a small fortune, all this is immaterial though unless Garner turns a mid table, draw specialist side into a win machine. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,844
    Bailey said:
    I think that the current crop of youngsters will, in twelve months time, be the bedrock of the side and despite TS's failure to bring in much fire power up front, the players brought in pre season are decent value and are hungry for success at this level. I still think that TS would quite happily sell but with no respectable bid being out there he will be faced with some decisions as to how protect his interest and money. There isn't a major selling asset within the squad at the moment, even though Miles Leaburn looks to have the qualities needed. If Garner manages to get the side in or around the playoff places by January, seems remote but football is a funny old game, where would that leave TS ? Would he gamble ? Loans in that window are obviously over a shorter term but more harder to achieve, purchasing players without players leaving are just as difficult but with the current mood of the fans TS faces a dilemma. Short term investment or a quickly emptying ground costing him a small fortune, all this is immaterial though unless Garner turns a mid table, draw specialist side into a win machine. 
    Anyone decent out of our youngsters won't be here in a year's time, that's the reality of L1
  • Bailey
    Bailey Posts: 3,265
    killerandflash said:
    Bailey said:
    I think that the current crop of youngsters will, in twelve months time, be the bedrock of the side and despite TS's failure to bring in much fire power up front, the players brought in pre season are decent value and are hungry for success at this level. I still think that TS would quite happily sell but with no respectable bid being out there he will be faced with some decisions as to how protect his interest and money. There isn't a major selling asset within the squad at the moment, even though Miles Leaburn looks to have the qualities needed. If Garner manages to get the side in or around the playoff places by January, seems remote but football is a funny old game, where would that leave TS ? Would he gamble ? Loans in that window are obviously over a shorter term but more harder to achieve, purchasing players without players leaving are just as difficult but with the current mood of the fans TS faces a dilemma. Short term investment or a quickly emptying ground costing him a small fortune, all this is immaterial though unless Garner turns a mid table, draw specialist side into a win machine. 
    Anyone decent out of our youngsters won't be here in a year's time, that's the reality of L1
    Most won't be considered as first team regulars by that point. We can see those players who have their debuts this season, Chin and Clayden  have been played due to no fit left back being available, plus Miles Leaburn would not have been used nearly as much if a forward had been signed. I don't think we have reached the point where young players are being forced into the first team simply to put them in the shop window, I also think any sales would not cover TS's losses, Lookman type fees are a rare breed theses days. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,844
    Bailey said:
    killerandflash said:
    Bailey said:
    I think that the current crop of youngsters will, in twelve months time, be the bedrock of the side and despite TS's failure to bring in much fire power up front, the players brought in pre season are decent value and are hungry for success at this level. I still think that TS would quite happily sell but with no respectable bid being out there he will be faced with some decisions as to how protect his interest and money. There isn't a major selling asset within the squad at the moment, even though Miles Leaburn looks to have the qualities needed. If Garner manages to get the side in or around the playoff places by January, seems remote but football is a funny old game, where would that leave TS ? Would he gamble ? Loans in that window are obviously over a shorter term but more harder to achieve, purchasing players without players leaving are just as difficult but with the current mood of the fans TS faces a dilemma. Short term investment or a quickly emptying ground costing him a small fortune, all this is immaterial though unless Garner turns a mid table, draw specialist side into a win machine. 
    Anyone decent out of our youngsters won't be here in a year's time, that's the reality of L1
    Most won't be considered as first team regulars by that point. We can see those players who have their debuts this season, Chin and Clayden  have been played due to no fit left back being available, plus Miles Leaburn would not have been used nearly as much if a forward had been signed. I don't think we have reached the point where young players are being forced into the first team simply to put them in the shop window, I also think any sales would not cover TS's losses, Lookman type fees are a rare breed theses days. 
    It's not an issue of youngsters being played with "for sale" signs on their shirts. Anyone decent will be offered a fat contract by a team further up the ladder, whether we like it or not.

    If a PL team offer us £2m in January for Miles and a 5 times increase in his salary, even with his family ties that will be hard to turn down. 
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    TelMc32 said:
    I think Thomas is now screwed unfortunately.  The only way he can afford to purchase The Valley & Sparrows Lane, at Duchatelet’s ridiculous 2x its’ worth valuation, is to get the Club to the Premiership. At that point though, his first obligation is the former Director’s loans. 

    If he isn’t prepared now to spend and fill the obvious squad gaps with quality players then the likelihood of getting out of this league, let alone get through the Championship, will grow ever more remote.  He has nothing to sell except the ticket to play in the Football League, no assets to realise the funds needed to compete without his own further input. 

    His advisors did a great job getting him through the ESI tangled ownership, but it seems that they were severely lacking in letting him know what was typically needed to operate a football club in England. We will continue to shrink as a club and wallow in League 1 (if we’re lucky).  

    Christ!! That’s depressing when I write it down 🥺
    I suspect his advisers did tell him what is typically needed to operate a football club in England, he just didn’t listen as his ego was telling him he knows best.

    Blokes a twat
  • mascot88
    mascot88 Posts: 9,616
    It’s very bad - 

    it’s always been obvious what is needed - huge levels of investment.

    And the pay off is unlikely and many many years away.

    So an investor gives it a crack, it fails, they then give it another less aggressive spend, it fails again.

     Then it feels like good money after bad and they cut costs and look for an exit.

    ad Infinitum.

    We need a genius and some good money or ludicrous talent coming through the ranks that we can use before they are sold.


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