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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

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  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,273
    edited September 2022
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same but think it's a red herring. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.

    Not sure he sold to the highest bidder. He gave away the operating business and left cash in it's bank account (so effectively paid for it to be taken off his hands).

    in my opinion, RD wants his entire money back and the only way that happens is if the club goes bust and it clears the way for The Valley to be developed.

    He knew the personal aggravation of collapsing the club himself so sold it to the worst purchaser he could find with the expectation they would bankrupt it and he would get what he wanted whilst claiming it was not his fault.

    This is his plan we see playing out. He is the issue.  He always has been.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same, but if the will was strong enough to pay the asking price, they'd have found a way. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.
    For a quid? What the hell was Barclay was offering
  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,234
    Athletico Charlton said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same but think it's a red herring. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.

    Not sure he sold to the highest bidder. He gave away the operating business and left cash in it's bank account (so effectively paid for it to be taken off his hands).

    in my opinion, RD wants his entire money back and the only way that happens is if the club goes bust and it clears the way for The Valley to be developed.

    He knew the personal aggravation of collapsing the club himself so sold it to the worst purchaser he could find with the expectation they would bankrupt it and he would get what he wanted whilst claiming it was not his fault.

    This is his plan we see playing out. He is the issue.  He always has been.
    I thought a deal was agreed with ESI to pay the £50M within a set time frame. I think he couldn't believe his luck when ESI's turned up with their ridiculous offer. ESI were also claiming they would have other investors pitching in at the same time, so he might have been taken in and not realized it would go so badly wrong so quickly.

    That 'plan' might look a good one with the benefit of hindsight, but would have looked high risk compared to the certainty of a deal with Barclay had he made an equivalent offer to the one made by ESI.
  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,234
    cafcfan1990 said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same, but if the will was strong enough to pay the asking price, they'd have found a way. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.
    For a quid? What the hell was Barclay was offering
    Defaulted on payment of the £1 too didn't they 🤣 I seem to recall ESI were contracted to pay him £50M, but I might be mistaken. 
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    cafcfan1990 said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same, but if the will was strong enough to pay the asking price, they'd have found a way. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.
    For a quid? What the hell was Barclay was offering
    Never made an offer. Nothing but Twitter talk, if he was serious, he would of got RD to at least have a
    meeting. He didn’t. 
  • HandG
    HandG Posts: 2,134
    swordfish said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same, but if the will was strong enough to pay the asking price, they'd have found a way. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.
    For a quid? What the hell was Barclay was offering
    Defaulted on payment of the £1 too didn't they 🤣 I seem to recall ESI were contracted to pay him £50M, but I might be mistaken. 
    There’s an email trail between Southall and De Turk (sic?) where MS says they’re happy to pay £40m. De Turk reverts and says it’s actually £50m and Southall, in his very next message, agrees the extra £10m without a thought of negotiation or asking for further details……
  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,234
    Athletico Charlton said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same but think it's a red herring. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.

    Not sure he sold to the highest bidder. He gave away the operating business and left cash in it's bank account (so effectively paid for it to be taken off his hands).

    in my opinion, RD wants his entire money back and the only way that happens is if the club goes bust and it clears the way for The Valley to be developed.

    He knew the personal aggravation of collapsing the club himself so sold it to the worst purchaser he could find with the expectation they would bankrupt it and he would get what he wanted whilst claiming it was not his fault.

    This is his plan we see playing out. He is the issue.  He always has been.
    Just had a further thought on this so called plan. Why did he agree a deal to rent the Valley to TS. Could have said it's £10M rent a year so that TS walks away, the Club then folds with no white knight in sight and his Plan pays out much earlier.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same, but if the will was strong enough to pay the asking price, they'd have found a way. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.
    For a quid? What the hell was Barclay was offering
    Never made an offer. Nothing but Twitter talk, if he was serious, he would of got RD to at least have a
    meeting. He didn’t. 
    I think we all know dealing with Roland isn't that simple. Besides, Roland was in a much better position post ESI deal, he'd got rid of the thing costing him money and causing him issues. 
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    swordfish said:
    Athletico Charlton said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same but think it's a red herring. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.

    Not sure he sold to the highest bidder. He gave away the operating business and left cash in it's bank account (so effectively paid for it to be taken off his hands).

    in my opinion, RD wants his entire money back and the only way that happens is if the club goes bust and it clears the way for The Valley to be developed.

    He knew the personal aggravation of collapsing the club himself so sold it to the worst purchaser he could find with the expectation they would bankrupt it and he would get what he wanted whilst claiming it was not his fault.

    This is his plan we see playing out. He is the issue.  He always has been.
    Just had a further thought on this so called plan. Why did he agree a deal to rent the Valley to TS. Could have said it's £10M rent a year so that TS walks away, the Club then folds with no white knight in sight and his Plan pays out much earlier.
    Or Sandgaard takes us off to another ground, the council refuse to let Roland do anything with the land and there's an empty ground sitting there costing Roland money. 
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same, but if the will was strong enough to pay the asking price, they'd have found a way. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.
    For a quid? What the hell was Barclay was offering
    Never made an offer. Nothing but Twitter talk, if he was serious, he would of got RD to at least have a
    meeting. He didn’t. 
    I think we all know dealing with Roland isn't that simple. Besides, Roland was in a much better position post ESI deal, he'd got rid of the thing costing him money and causing him issues. 
    But Barclay was around long before ESi and couldn’t get in the same room as RD. I don’t believe for a second he was serious. 
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  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,234
    edited September 2022
    cafcfan1990 said:
    swordfish said:
    Athletico Charlton said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same but think it's a red herring. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.

    Not sure he sold to the highest bidder. He gave away the operating business and left cash in it's bank account (so effectively paid for it to be taken off his hands).

    in my opinion, RD wants his entire money back and the only way that happens is if the club goes bust and it clears the way for The Valley to be developed.

    He knew the personal aggravation of collapsing the club himself so sold it to the worst purchaser he could find with the expectation they would bankrupt it and he would get what he wanted whilst claiming it was not his fault.

    This is his plan we see playing out. He is the issue.  He always has been.
    Just had a further thought on this so called plan. Why did he agree a deal to rent the Valley to TS. Could have said it's £10M rent a year so that TS walks away, the Club then folds with no white knight in sight and his Plan pays out much earlier.
    Or Sandgaard takes us off to another ground, the council refuse to let Roland do anything with the land and there's an empty ground sitting there costing Roland money. 
    I take your point and that result would also have given RD what he wanted under the 'Plan', an empty Valley to work with, so why agree to reasonable lease terms if that was his aim.

    TS isn't exactly flavour of the month now, but if he'd taken us from the Valley his honeymoon period would have been much shorter. Still might of course. And of course I accept that RD is still the problem

    The point I'm labouring to make is that Barclay isn't a player in all this, for whatever reason, but he's seem by some with rose tinted glasses. Where there's a will there's a way and if he wanted to own us, with all his money, he would by now.
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,145
    My then 6 year old son offered £100m to Roland but he was informed i was a protestor so didn't want to deal with us 
    Mickey Mouse bid $60m which would have got Roland his asking price if he'd held on to the dollars

    I mean the fella is a twunt and to do a deal with ESI was ridiculous 
    Amazing how many people think that Barclay should have forced the issue with a madman who wouldn't speak to him and wanted fantasy land money 
  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,234
    edited September 2022
    oohaahmortimer said:
    My then 6 year old son offered £100m to Roland but he was informed i was a protestor so didn't want to deal with us 
    Mickey Mouse bid $60m which would have got Roland his asking price if he'd held on to the dollars

    I mean the fella is a twunt and to do a deal with ESI was ridiculous 
    Amazing how many people think that Barclay should have forced the issue with a madman who wouldn't speak to him and wanted fantasy land money 
    I believe I said I didn't blame him for not paying over the odds. 

    Our problem is that to end our cycle of, I'll use mediocrity, we need to find a another madman who will, so based on past experience, it's not going to be Barclay is it.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same, but if the will was strong enough to pay the asking price, they'd have found a way. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.
    For a quid? What the hell was Barclay was offering
    Never made an offer. Nothing but Twitter talk, if he was serious, he would of got RD to at least have a
    meeting. He didn’t. 
    I think we all know dealing with Roland isn't that simple. Besides, Roland was in a much better position post ESI deal, he'd got rid of the thing costing him money and causing him issues. 
    But Barclay was around long before ESi and couldn’t get in the same room as RD. I don’t believe for a second he was serious. 
    Was he? I thought the interest came a few months after ESI had taken control but could be wrong. 
  • Six-a-bag-of-nuts
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts Posts: 8,127
    I would imagine that global recession has put the final nail in the coffin of any dreams of a mega rich benefactor taking over the club and paying off Roland at a price that is acceptable to him.
    How long will Tommy hang on until his ego finally concedes he's failed? Couple of seasons maybe?
    Who knows what horror awaits then.
    Will there still be enough people left who care to take on whatever crook or charlatan he passes the club on to?
    Is it time to rename this site Charlton Death?  ;)

  • MarcusH26
    MarcusH26 Posts: 8,030
    AFKABartram said:
    Feel like we are wasting energy talking about Barclay and the like.

    It seems a coincidence that years on, names like Barclay, Mehmet Dalman, the Aussies (Muir), the Turks (Ural Akazum), the Portuguese (Fernando Corte-Real), when their interest / bid for us flounders, never go on to acquire anyone else?

    I'd forgotten that bizarre Portuguese bid that seemingly wanted to be what Fosun have done at Wolves , without the money of Fosun and the contacts of Jorge Mendes. 
  • Dave2l
    Dave2l Posts: 8,865
    Would love it if out of nowhere,  some mega rich Chinese folk purchased the club and everything outright and desired to follow the Leicester City success pathway, and every off the field issue eventually settled down.

    Advertisement of the potential, is key.

    It is not impossible and it could still happen 
  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,218
    shirty5 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    Who is Rui Pinto and how would he know about a conversation with junior staff?
    Appears to be a current or ex employee of the club, or someone who’s being fed info. Either way it’s fascinating to read and must have the Sandgaard family wondering who the hell is this individual. 

  • ken_shabby
    ken_shabby Posts: 6,255
    Who is Rui Pinto?
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  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,737
    edited September 2022
    shirty5 said:
    shirty5 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    Who is Rui Pinto and how would he know about a conversation with junior staff?
    Appears to be a current or ex employee of the club, or someone who’s being fed info. Either way it’s fascinating to read and must have the Sandgaard family wondering who the hell is this individual. 

    Quelle surprise ! 
  • supaclive
    supaclive Posts: 6,514
    There is obviously a culture within the club of staff not enjoying their workplace.    That is a concern.   If people are leaving this quickly, all is not well.    Cost cutting for a few hundred here and a thousand there will get you nowhere when;

    a) you pay a consultancy company to review - their cost is only offset after a number of years in most cases
    b) you are running a UK company, in a field that is specific/weird (football is weird), that you don't have understanding of and are from a different country
    c) you have your family and close friends/partners run areas of the business they are wholly unqualified to do

    Now, I don't run a company that is as big as Charlton, but it is infinitely more profitable.    I don't have Thomas' money, but at this rate, he'll have mine in the next 2 or 3 years....
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,824
    ken_shabby said:
    Who is Rui Pinto?
    You could say the modern day online version of the Echoes Across the Valley column in VOTV (though I’m sure Airman has nothing to do with it) 
  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,234
    ken_shabby said:
    Who is Rui Pinto?
    A whistle blower on the inside who doesn't like the way Thomas & family operate and believes they should be outed for it. Has the feel of preaching to the converted about it now though as I doubt many haven't got the gist and aren't convinced all is not well. Staff retention rates and the comments of respected ITK posters on here are what convinced me though, not these tweets, only because I have no knowledge of the person posting them. However, whoever it is, I've seen nothing posted on here that contradicts the allegations they contain. 
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    Andrew... Peter... Please return to the table. 
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  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,273
    swordfish said:
    Athletico Charlton said:
    swordfish said:
    J BLOCK said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Murray had RD ear and told him Varney was bad news or some shit , hence Barclay didn’t get a look in with the RD  , shame Murray couldn’t have done some due diligence on the ESI 🤡 and warned RD about them 
    Might be wrong but I also remember hearing something about Varney being the middle man for the now current Newcastle owners and Murray stopped RD hearing them out, so they turned to the geordies instead 
    Heard the same but think it's a red herring. RD sold to the highest bidder and that wasn't Barclay.

    Not sure he sold to the highest bidder. He gave away the operating business and left cash in it's bank account (so effectively paid for it to be taken off his hands).

    in my opinion, RD wants his entire money back and the only way that happens is if the club goes bust and it clears the way for The Valley to be developed.

    He knew the personal aggravation of collapsing the club himself so sold it to the worst purchaser he could find with the expectation they would bankrupt it and he would get what he wanted whilst claiming it was not his fault.

    This is his plan we see playing out. He is the issue.  He always has been.
    I thought a deal was agreed with ESI to pay the £50M within a set time frame. I think he couldn't believe his luck when ESI's turned up with their ridiculous offer. ESI were also claiming they would have other investors pitching in at the same time, so he might have been taken in and not realized it would go so badly wrong so quickly.

    That 'plan' might look a good one with the benefit of hindsight, but would have looked high risk compared to the certainty of a deal with Barclay had he made an equivalent offer to the one made by ESI.
    When he sold he said something like "enjoy it... Whilst it lasts".  Maybe I am wrong as I am only guessing but I don't think he ever expected them to succeed.  Any DD on the purchaser would have shown it as unlikely.  Of course he protected himself with a £50M valley sale agreement and would have been delighted with that but ultimately he would have known it was unlikely and was comfortable with the second and more likely outcome (our demise).
  • jonseventyfive
    jonseventyfive Posts: 3,353
    ken_shabby said:
    Who is Rui Pinto?
    New LB.
  • T_C_E
    T_C_E Posts: 16,418
    edited September 2022
    Best quote of the weekend sent to me by a friend of a friend. ;)

    New C of C including dresscode telling staff what is a professional look... and I quote

    "And nothing low cut. The woman has her tits out most weeks and wears thigh high boots" 

    And the friend of a friend is also female.  ;)
  • EugenesAxe
    EugenesAxe Posts: 3,284
    edited September 2022
    T_C_E said:
    Best quote of the weekend sent to me by a friend of a friend. ;)

    New C of C including dresscode telling staff what is a professional look... and I quote

    "And nothing low cut. The woman has her tits out most weeks and wears thigh high boots" 

    And the friend of a friend is also female.  ;)
    Obviously doesn’t want to be upstaged by anyone 

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