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Post-match Thread: Accrington v Charlton | July 30, 2022
Comments
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You’re trying to take the match thread off into a discussion about TS. I’m prone to doing similar things, but the performance of the football side has very little to do with how well the business is run except in the very long term. You are not going to see more investment in the football side because of the kind of changes on the business side that are feasible in L1. That is just about marginal differences to the operating loss.AndyG said:
It is relevant though imo. You know more than most what state the club was in. 2 years is a long time in the life of a supporter but isnt if you are trying to restructure and "fix" a badly run business. The guy came in knowing nothing about football or running a club, stubbornly took on the incumbent parasites and got rid of them and imo saving the club from oblivion (unless you know different). He has put up large amounts of his money to try and stabilise things. Yes he has made alot of mistakes and I'm sure there will be more but on the whole I honestly think we are a better club today than we have been for a number of years. At the end of the day it is a results business and if progress up the leagues doesnt happen then I'm sure he will move on. My point is that we should be aware that there are alot of worse options as owners out there.Airman Brown said:
That’s not what I’ve said and it’s not relevant to my point, either. I’m simply saying that we didn’t start from scratch in 2020 and it’s not an explanation for performance on the pitch in 2022.AndyG said:
Your right ofcourse it didnt happen. But it would have done if TS hadnt have popped up on the scene and then taken the dodgy mob on in court. Or do you not think that the case ?Airman Brown said:swordfish said:
Plenty feel entitled because of our history, fanbase and stadium, seeing Championship or better as our natural level.FishCostaFortune said:
Seen a few similar comments along these lines. Against the top 6 last year Accrington at home had 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses.blackpool72 said:
1-1 or 2-2 makes no difference to me but we should never settle for a point at somewhere like Accrington.RonnieMoore said:if the game had ended 1-1 everyone would have said it’s a good point … late goals happen it don’t change the performance of the last 95 mins .
Their style of play may not suit us but at the end of the day they are a bang average league one side.
If we draw against Derby next Saturday some on here will probably still be saying it's not a bad result.
In reality if we fail to beat Derby next Saturday we will either be 4 or 5 points off the top teams after just 2 games.
If we are serious about promotion we need to be winning matches and not saying things like a draw is a good result because it isn't.I find it slightly disrespectful, and indicative of how people underestimate this league, when they for some reason feel we should easily be turning competitive and well managed sides like Accrington aside away from home.
Of course we should be striving to get back there, but we're only two years on from oblivion and it's taking more time than we'd like.
Fortunately the players don't disrespect the opposition as some fans do. They know that all the Club's in L1 are there because that is where they deserve to be.
As with cricket when you don't know what a good score is until both sides have batted, who knows the value of an away point at Accrington now? No one else has played them yet, so you can't conclude anything.
I know one thing, for those saying "same old", after the second half performance, a point was fair and we might easily have lost, as we have there in the past, so not quite the same.
We’re not “only two years on from oblivion”, since the calamity in question never occurred. We are two years on from a season in the Championship and as disturbing as the events of 2020 were we emerged from them a functioning football club with established staff in place, including football management.
The Championship is our natural level and being in L1 is always underperformance. I have a lot of respect for Accrington but as with a number of other clubs in the division our inability to outperform them most of the time is evidence of failure or, if you like, bad value for money.
I'm fully expecting you to answer saying that nobody can know what would have happened without the intervention from TS but I'm pretty sure you are all too aware there wasnt anyone else likely to step in a stop the crooks literally bleeding the club dry. To say anything else is a mystery to me mate
“TS was great in 2020” has nothing to do with “we shouldn’t expect to beat Accrington in 2022”.
I hope he gets the time to learn from his mistakes and we all reap the rewards personally
I think the circumstances of 2020/21 were difficult, partly because of the wage cap. But I don’t accept that there is some kind of lasting damage from ESI or earlier that accounts for Adkins and Johnnie Jackson’s spell in charge. It is even more bonkers to suggest performances are impacted now by Roland’s legacy.RD is the reason we are in this division, granted, but we continue to have a successful academy and TS is on his fourth manager. That alone should tell you that the football has not been well run in the last two years.Maybe TS is heading in the right direction now, but 2020 and before is not an explanation of football performance in 2022 and the business side has almost nothing to do with it, whether it’s well run or not. Hence promotion in 2018/19.3 -
I’m not sure. Accrington have always got a good home record so maybe it was a good point. But they have lost 3 key players (Sykes, Butcher and Bishop) so I don’t think they will be where they were last year in the table and if we are serious about pushing for promotion we should be winning games against lower mid-table teams. Also looking at our next 3 games I think we really could have done with a win to start. The game confirmed that we are better than we were last year, but probably not going to be in the top 6, hope I’m wrong though and there’s still time for us to bring in the players we need to make that jumpFishCostaFortune said:
Two of the three teams promoted to the championship last season didn’t beat Accrington Stanley at home last season either. One of those being Sunderland who I think we can also all agree the championship is probably their natural level.Airman Brown said:
That’s not what I’ve said and it’s not relevant to my point, either. I’m simply saying that we didn’t start from scratch in 2020 and it’s not an explanation for performance on the pitch in 2022.AndyG said:
Your right ofcourse it didnt happen. But it would have done if TS hadnt have popped up on the scene and then taken the dodgy mob on in court. Or do you not think that the case ?Airman Brown said:swordfish said:
Plenty feel entitled because of our history, fanbase and stadium, seeing Championship or better as our natural level.FishCostaFortune said:
Seen a few similar comments along these lines. Against the top 6 last year Accrington at home had 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses.blackpool72 said:
1-1 or 2-2 makes no difference to me but we should never settle for a point at somewhere like Accrington.RonnieMoore said:if the game had ended 1-1 everyone would have said it’s a good point … late goals happen it don’t change the performance of the last 95 mins .
Their style of play may not suit us but at the end of the day they are a bang average league one side.
If we draw against Derby next Saturday some on here will probably still be saying it's not a bad result.
In reality if we fail to beat Derby next Saturday we will either be 4 or 5 points off the top teams after just 2 games.
If we are serious about promotion we need to be winning matches and not saying things like a draw is a good result because it isn't.I find it slightly disrespectful, and indicative of how people underestimate this league, when they for some reason feel we should easily be turning competitive and well managed sides like Accrington aside away from home.
Of course we should be striving to get back there, but we're only two years on from oblivion and it's taking more time than we'd like.
Fortunately the players don't disrespect the opposition as some fans do. They know that all the Club's in L1 are there because that is where they deserve to be.
As with cricket when you don't know what a good score is until both sides have batted, who knows the value of an away point at Accrington now? No one else has played them yet, so you can't conclude anything.
I know one thing, for those saying "same old", after the second half performance, a point was fair and we might easily have lost, as we have there in the past, so not quite the same.
We’re not “only two years on from oblivion”, since the calamity in question never occurred. We are two years on from a season in the Championship and as disturbing as the events of 2020 were we emerged from them a functioning football club with established staff in place, including football management.
The Championship is our natural level and being in L1 is always underperformance. I have a lot of respect for Accrington but as with a number of other clubs in the division our inability to outperform them most of the time is evidence of failure or, if you like, bad value for money.
I'm fully expecting you to answer saying that nobody can know what would have happened without the intervention from TS but I'm pretty sure you are all too aware there wasnt anyone else likely to step in a stop the crooks literally bleeding the club dry. To say anything else is a mystery to me mate
“TS was great in 2020” has nothing to do with “we shouldn’t expect to beat Accrington in 2022”.
Another team I think we can also agree the championship is probably their natural level, Wigan, did beat Accrington at home this year, but didn’t the previous season.
Why this entitled view that just because we should be a better and bigger club we should automatically be turning up and teams will roll over. From the Championship down to the National League these days there’s a lot of well coached and well drilled teams and it’s just not that simply as that gap is not that wide no matter how good your team is.
We will see as this season goes on whether that draw was a good result or not. My suspicion is it will.3 -
If we are serious about winning promotion, we should (capable of) winning games against every team in the league.NabySarr said:
and if we are serious about pushing for promotion we should be winning games against lower mid-table teams.FishCostaFortune said:
Two of the three teams promoted to the championship last season didn’t beat Accrington Stanley at home last season either. One of those being Sunderland who I think we can also all agree the championship is probably their natural level.Airman Brown said:
That’s not what I’ve said and it’s not relevant to my point, either. I’m simply saying that we didn’t start from scratch in 2020 and it’s not an explanation for performance on the pitch in 2022.AndyG said:
Your right ofcourse it didnt happen. But it would have done if TS hadnt have popped up on the scene and then taken the dodgy mob on in court. Or do you not think that the case ?Airman Brown said:swordfish said:
Plenty feel entitled because of our history, fanbase and stadium, seeing Championship or better as our natural level.FishCostaFortune said:
Seen a few similar comments along these lines. Against the top 6 last year Accrington at home had 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses.blackpool72 said:
1-1 or 2-2 makes no difference to me but we should never settle for a point at somewhere like Accrington.RonnieMoore said:if the game had ended 1-1 everyone would have said it’s a good point … late goals happen it don’t change the performance of the last 95 mins .
Their style of play may not suit us but at the end of the day they are a bang average league one side.
If we draw against Derby next Saturday some on here will probably still be saying it's not a bad result.
In reality if we fail to beat Derby next Saturday we will either be 4 or 5 points off the top teams after just 2 games.
If we are serious about promotion we need to be winning matches and not saying things like a draw is a good result because it isn't.I find it slightly disrespectful, and indicative of how people underestimate this league, when they for some reason feel we should easily be turning competitive and well managed sides like Accrington aside away from home.
Of course we should be striving to get back there, but we're only two years on from oblivion and it's taking more time than we'd like.
Fortunately the players don't disrespect the opposition as some fans do. They know that all the Club's in L1 are there because that is where they deserve to be.
As with cricket when you don't know what a good score is until both sides have batted, who knows the value of an away point at Accrington now? No one else has played them yet, so you can't conclude anything.
I know one thing, for those saying "same old", after the second half performance, a point was fair and we might easily have lost, as we have there in the past, so not quite the same.
We’re not “only two years on from oblivion”, since the calamity in question never occurred. We are two years on from a season in the Championship and as disturbing as the events of 2020 were we emerged from them a functioning football club with established staff in place, including football management.
The Championship is our natural level and being in L1 is always underperformance. I have a lot of respect for Accrington but as with a number of other clubs in the division our inability to outperform them most of the time is evidence of failure or, if you like, bad value for money.
I'm fully expecting you to answer saying that nobody can know what would have happened without the intervention from TS but I'm pretty sure you are all too aware there wasnt anyone else likely to step in a stop the crooks literally bleeding the club dry. To say anything else is a mystery to me mate
“TS was great in 2020” has nothing to do with “we shouldn’t expect to beat Accrington in 2022”.
Another team I think we can also agree the championship is probably their natural level, Wigan, did beat Accrington at home this year, but didn’t the previous season.
Why this entitled view that just because we should be a better and bigger club we should automatically be turning up and teams will roll over. From the Championship down to the National League these days there’s a lot of well coached and well drilled teams and it’s just not that simply as that gap is not that wide no matter how good your team is.
We will see as this season goes on whether that draw was a good result or not. My suspicion is it will.2 -
It’s a valid point for sure, but we won’t know for a while if those replacements which have come in will be just as good or it not better. Accrington have been good at finding non league gems that’s for sure.NabySarr said:
I’m not sure. Accrington have always got a good home record so maybe it was a good point. But they have lost 3 key players (Sykes, Butcher and Bishop) so I don’t think they will be where they were last year in the table and if we are serious about pushing for promotion we should be winning games against lower mid-table teams. Also looking at our next 3 games I think we really could have done with a win to start. The game confirmed that we are better than we were last year, but probably not going to be in the top 6, hope I’m wrong though and there’s still time for us to bring in the players we need to make that jumpFishCostaFortune said:
Two of the three teams promoted to the championship last season didn’t beat Accrington Stanley at home last season either. One of those being Sunderland who I think we can also all agree the championship is probably their natural level.Airman Brown said:
That’s not what I’ve said and it’s not relevant to my point, either. I’m simply saying that we didn’t start from scratch in 2020 and it’s not an explanation for performance on the pitch in 2022.AndyG said:
Your right ofcourse it didnt happen. But it would have done if TS hadnt have popped up on the scene and then taken the dodgy mob on in court. Or do you not think that the case ?Airman Brown said:swordfish said:
Plenty feel entitled because of our history, fanbase and stadium, seeing Championship or better as our natural level.FishCostaFortune said:
Seen a few similar comments along these lines. Against the top 6 last year Accrington at home had 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses.blackpool72 said:
1-1 or 2-2 makes no difference to me but we should never settle for a point at somewhere like Accrington.RonnieMoore said:if the game had ended 1-1 everyone would have said it’s a good point … late goals happen it don’t change the performance of the last 95 mins .
Their style of play may not suit us but at the end of the day they are a bang average league one side.
If we draw against Derby next Saturday some on here will probably still be saying it's not a bad result.
In reality if we fail to beat Derby next Saturday we will either be 4 or 5 points off the top teams after just 2 games.
If we are serious about promotion we need to be winning matches and not saying things like a draw is a good result because it isn't.I find it slightly disrespectful, and indicative of how people underestimate this league, when they for some reason feel we should easily be turning competitive and well managed sides like Accrington aside away from home.
Of course we should be striving to get back there, but we're only two years on from oblivion and it's taking more time than we'd like.
Fortunately the players don't disrespect the opposition as some fans do. They know that all the Club's in L1 are there because that is where they deserve to be.
As with cricket when you don't know what a good score is until both sides have batted, who knows the value of an away point at Accrington now? No one else has played them yet, so you can't conclude anything.
I know one thing, for those saying "same old", after the second half performance, a point was fair and we might easily have lost, as we have there in the past, so not quite the same.
We’re not “only two years on from oblivion”, since the calamity in question never occurred. We are two years on from a season in the Championship and as disturbing as the events of 2020 were we emerged from them a functioning football club with established staff in place, including football management.
The Championship is our natural level and being in L1 is always underperformance. I have a lot of respect for Accrington but as with a number of other clubs in the division our inability to outperform them most of the time is evidence of failure or, if you like, bad value for money.
I'm fully expecting you to answer saying that nobody can know what would have happened without the intervention from TS but I'm pretty sure you are all too aware there wasnt anyone else likely to step in a stop the crooks literally bleeding the club dry. To say anything else is a mystery to me mate
“TS was great in 2020” has nothing to do with “we shouldn’t expect to beat Accrington in 2022”.
Another team I think we can also agree the championship is probably their natural level, Wigan, did beat Accrington at home this year, but didn’t the previous season.
Why this entitled view that just because we should be a better and bigger club we should automatically be turning up and teams will roll over. From the Championship down to the National League these days there’s a lot of well coached and well drilled teams and it’s just not that simply as that gap is not that wide no matter how good your team is.
We will see as this season goes on whether that draw was a good result or not. My suspicion is it will.
As Ben Garner said in his pre match interview, they are an established league one team now, and I’m sure many championship teams would go there and not have it their own way.2 -
Watched the scores come in with a few non Charlton mates.
When Leaburn scored I said well at least we cannot lose.
When Accrington equalised they started to laugh and said are you sure about that. I waited with dreaded anticipation to see the score click over to 3-2.5 -
I didn't see the game, but I am pleased with a point. I didn't think we would get anything from the game. However, I am gutted that we were unable to hold on for a minute or so and nick all three points. Great to see Leaburn score on his league debut, and generally the performance sounded as though it had more positives than negatives.
Looking forward to Derby on Saturday.2 -
@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
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Not sure if it’s been mentioned, admittedly not world beating, but thought Kirk did ok and looked interested when he came on. Wasn’t sure whether he’d just come back and tread water.8
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We certainly were/are capable of beating Accrington and in fact were only a few minutes away from doing exactly that, so I am not sure what you are getting at here unless you are genuinely expecting a season unbeaten or something similar.The Prince-e-Paul said:
If we are serious about winning promotion, we should (capable of) winning games against every team in the league.NabySarr said:
and if we are serious about pushing for promotion we should be winning games against lower mid-table teams.FishCostaFortune said:
Two of the three teams promoted to the championship last season didn’t beat Accrington Stanley at home last season either. One of those being Sunderland who I think we can also all agree the championship is probably their natural level.Airman Brown said:
That’s not what I’ve said and it’s not relevant to my point, either. I’m simply saying that we didn’t start from scratch in 2020 and it’s not an explanation for performance on the pitch in 2022.AndyG said:
Your right ofcourse it didnt happen. But it would have done if TS hadnt have popped up on the scene and then taken the dodgy mob on in court. Or do you not think that the case ?Airman Brown said:swordfish said:
Plenty feel entitled because of our history, fanbase and stadium, seeing Championship or better as our natural level.FishCostaFortune said:
Seen a few similar comments along these lines. Against the top 6 last year Accrington at home had 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses.blackpool72 said:
1-1 or 2-2 makes no difference to me but we should never settle for a point at somewhere like Accrington.RonnieMoore said:if the game had ended 1-1 everyone would have said it’s a good point … late goals happen it don’t change the performance of the last 95 mins .
Their style of play may not suit us but at the end of the day they are a bang average league one side.
If we draw against Derby next Saturday some on here will probably still be saying it's not a bad result.
In reality if we fail to beat Derby next Saturday we will either be 4 or 5 points off the top teams after just 2 games.
If we are serious about promotion we need to be winning matches and not saying things like a draw is a good result because it isn't.I find it slightly disrespectful, and indicative of how people underestimate this league, when they for some reason feel we should easily be turning competitive and well managed sides like Accrington aside away from home.
Of course we should be striving to get back there, but we're only two years on from oblivion and it's taking more time than we'd like.
Fortunately the players don't disrespect the opposition as some fans do. They know that all the Club's in L1 are there because that is where they deserve to be.
As with cricket when you don't know what a good score is until both sides have batted, who knows the value of an away point at Accrington now? No one else has played them yet, so you can't conclude anything.
I know one thing, for those saying "same old", after the second half performance, a point was fair and we might easily have lost, as we have there in the past, so not quite the same.
We’re not “only two years on from oblivion”, since the calamity in question never occurred. We are two years on from a season in the Championship and as disturbing as the events of 2020 were we emerged from them a functioning football club with established staff in place, including football management.
The Championship is our natural level and being in L1 is always underperformance. I have a lot of respect for Accrington but as with a number of other clubs in the division our inability to outperform them most of the time is evidence of failure or, if you like, bad value for money.
I'm fully expecting you to answer saying that nobody can know what would have happened without the intervention from TS but I'm pretty sure you are all too aware there wasnt anyone else likely to step in a stop the crooks literally bleeding the club dry. To say anything else is a mystery to me mate
“TS was great in 2020” has nothing to do with “we shouldn’t expect to beat Accrington in 2022”.
Another team I think we can also agree the championship is probably their natural level, Wigan, did beat Accrington at home this year, but didn’t the previous season.
Why this entitled view that just because we should be a better and bigger club we should automatically be turning up and teams will roll over. From the Championship down to the National League these days there’s a lot of well coached and well drilled teams and it’s just not that simply as that gap is not that wide no matter how good your team is.
We will see as this season goes on whether that draw was a good result or not. My suspicion is it will.3 -
I think Brentford have been clever and exploited the player market in ways that others aspire to do but haven’t succeeded. In Bournemouth’s case I think it was more to do with being bankrolled, but I’m not expert on either club. I suspect Bournemouth will revert to the norm over time because like Wigan it’s a club of limited substance. Obviously the financial structure of the game is protecting clubs which reach the Premier League. That may change.swordfish said:@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
In this case my simple point has nothing to do with the ownership - it is fairly obvious that L1 performance is heavily shaped by how much is spent on players. Charlton have and continue to outspend most clubs in the division regardless of the sustainability of that in the medium term - hence all other things being equal they should outperform those clubs.
Now I accept that all other things are not equal in practice - clubs identify young talent and key players get injured - but often it is about football management, however you define that.
it’s very likely that there isn’t a single club spending more than Charlton below us in the final table last season and there are multiple clubs above us spending less.
We probably spend between two and three times as much on players as Accrington, yet they have easily the better record in the fixture. That is underperformance.As for the “natural level” the reality is that clubs like Accrington can operate in L1 and L2 with some but not much financial support because of their low overheads. Charlton cannot.That is why TS’s “treble the revenue in L1” line is dangerous nonsense. It isn’t possible.
I’m not saying the Championship is easy but the unavoidable loss is certainly lower and if there is more dispersal of PL funds that should become more so. In L1 sooner or later the Charlton owner runs out of money or enthusiasm.
To recap I am not even complaining about yesterday - I am saying that a club spending what Charlton is spending on players should expect to outperform clubs like Stanley more often than not. The fact we haven’t is failure.
What happened off the pitch in 2020 isn’t a sufficient or even significant explanation of that.18 - Sponsored links:
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Get what is being said here, but expecting to out perform teams due to what we are spending on players doesn’t mean success, that’s just not football is it. If it was we might as well just dish out points without playing. And that would not run true with some of our success against the odds in the past. It’s not quite so black and white is my point.Airman Brown said:
I think Brentford have been clever and exploited the player market in ways that others aspire to do but haven’t succeeded. In Bournemouth’s case I think it was more to do with being bankrolled, but I’m not expert on either club. I suspect Bournemouth will revert to the norm over time because like Wigan it’s a club of limited substance. Obviously the financial structure of the game is protecting clubs which reach the Premier League. That may change.swordfish said:@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
In this case my simple point has nothing to do with the ownership - it is fairly obvious that L1 performance is heavily shaped by how much is spent on players. Charlton have and continue to outspend most clubs in the division regardless of the sustainability of that in the medium term - hence all other things being equal they should outperform those clubs.
Now I accept that all other things are not equal in practice - clubs identify young talent and key players get injured - but often it is about football management, however you define that.
it’s very likely that there isn’t a single club spending more than Charlton below us in the final table last season and there are multiple clubs above us spending less.
We probably spend between two and three times as much on players as Accrington, yet they have easily the better record in the fixture. That is underperformance.As for the “natural level” the reality is that clubs like Accrington can operate in L1 and L2 with some but not much financial support because of their low overheads. Charlton cannot.That is why TS’s “treble the revenue in L1” line is dangerous nonsense. It isn’t possible.
I’m not saying the Championship is easy but the unavoidable loss is certainly lower and if there is more dispersal of PL funds that should become more so. In L1 sooner or later the Charlton owner runs out of money or enthusiasm.
To recap I am not even complaining about yesterday - I am saying that a club spending what Charlton is spending on players should expect to outperform clubs like Stanley more often than not. The fact we haven’t is failure.2 -
And yet the league table says otherwise and not just in L1. I agree you can’t just turn up and expect to win, but over time spending power is the single biggest predictor of success and has been for many years.paulfox said:
Get what is being said here, but expecting to out perform teams due to what we are spending on players doesn’t mean success, that’s just not football is it. If it was we might as well just dish out points without playing. And that would not run true with some of our success against the odds in the past. It’s not quite so black and white is my point.Airman Brown said:
I think Brentford have been clever and exploited the player market in ways that others aspire to do but haven’t succeeded. In Bournemouth’s case I think it was more to do with being bankrolled, but I’m not expert on either club. I suspect Bournemouth will revert to the norm over time because like Wigan it’s a club of limited substance. Obviously the financial structure of the game is protecting clubs which reach the Premier League. That may change.swordfish said:@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
In this case my simple point has nothing to do with the ownership - it is fairly obvious that L1 performance is heavily shaped by how much is spent on players. Charlton have and continue to outspend most clubs in the division regardless of the sustainability of that in the medium term - hence all other things being equal they should outperform those clubs.
Now I accept that all other things are not equal in practice - clubs identify young talent and key players get injured - but often it is about football management, however you define that.
it’s very likely that there isn’t a single club spending more than Charlton below us in the final table last season and there are multiple clubs above us spending less.
We probably spend between two and three times as much on players as Accrington, yet they have easily the better record in the fixture. That is underperformance.As for the “natural level” the reality is that clubs like Accrington can operate in L1 and L2 with some but not much financial support because of their low overheads. Charlton cannot.That is why TS’s “treble the revenue in L1” line is dangerous nonsense. It isn’t possible.
I’m not saying the Championship is easy but the unavoidable loss is certainly lower and if there is more dispersal of PL funds that should become more so. In L1 sooner or later the Charlton owner runs out of money or enthusiasm.
To recap I am not even complaining about yesterday - I am saying that a club spending what Charlton is spending on players should expect to outperform clubs like Stanley more often than not. The fact we haven’t is failure.My whole point is that good managers can help you beat the odds - Lennie Lawrence and Curbs - and bad ones (or owners out of their depth interfering like RD) will generally do worse with the same resources.1 -
Yes if teams persist with the bigger spending it does eventually tend to work, but there are always the exceptions to the rule which gives teams hope, thankfully in my view, as it wouldn’t half get boring.Airman Brown said:
And yet the league table says otherwise and not just in L1. I agree you can’t just turn up and expect to win, but over time spending power is the single biggest predictor of success and has been for many years.paulfox said:
Get what is being said here, but expecting to out perform teams due to what we are spending on players doesn’t mean success, that’s just not football is it. If it was we might as well just dish out points without playing. And that would not run true with some of our success against the odds in the past. It’s not quite so black and white is my point.Airman Brown said:
I think Brentford have been clever and exploited the player market in ways that others aspire to do but haven’t succeeded. In Bournemouth’s case I think it was more to do with being bankrolled, but I’m not expert on either club. I suspect Bournemouth will revert to the norm over time because like Wigan it’s a club of limited substance. Obviously the financial structure of the game is protecting clubs which reach the Premier League. That may change.swordfish said:@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
In this case my simple point has nothing to do with the ownership - it is fairly obvious that L1 performance is heavily shaped by how much is spent on players. Charlton have and continue to outspend most clubs in the division regardless of the sustainability of that in the medium term - hence all other things being equal they should outperform those clubs.
Now I accept that all other things are not equal in practice - clubs identify young talent and key players get injured - but often it is about football management, however you define that.
it’s very likely that there isn’t a single club spending more than Charlton below us in the final table last season and there are multiple clubs above us spending less.
We probably spend between two and three times as much on players as Accrington, yet they have easily the better record in the fixture. That is underperformance.As for the “natural level” the reality is that clubs like Accrington can operate in L1 and L2 with some but not much financial support because of their low overheads. Charlton cannot.That is why TS’s “treble the revenue in L1” line is dangerous nonsense. It isn’t possible.
I’m not saying the Championship is easy but the unavoidable loss is certainly lower and if there is more dispersal of PL funds that should become more so. In L1 sooner or later the Charlton owner runs out of money or enthusiasm.
To recap I am not even complaining about yesterday - I am saying that a club spending what Charlton is spending on players should expect to outperform clubs like Stanley more often than not. The fact we haven’t is failure.0 -
Well I finally got back to Bromley at 3am , having got the night bus from Trafalgar square. Still an enjoyable day and great to see young Leaburn scoring. Some positive things on the pitch but felt we gave up too many chances.
Pre match drink in downtown Accrington , 2 pints plus 1/2 a cider - £4.75 !!!!!!!!!12 -
Yes, of course, the fact it isn’t just about money is what makes it interesting, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t about money at all. In practice it’s mostly about financial power, and when the difference is overwhelming then the failure in not producing corresponding results is bigger.paulfox said:
Yes if teams persist with the bigger spending it does eventually tend to work, but there are always the exceptions to the rule which gives teams hope, thankfully in my view, as it wouldn’t half get boring.Airman Brown said:
And yet the league table says otherwise and not just in L1. I agree you can’t just turn up and expect to win, but over time spending power is the single biggest predictor of success and has been for many years.paulfox said:
Get what is being said here, but expecting to out perform teams due to what we are spending on players doesn’t mean success, that’s just not football is it. If it was we might as well just dish out points without playing. And that would not run true with some of our success against the odds in the past. It’s not quite so black and white is my point.Airman Brown said:
I think Brentford have been clever and exploited the player market in ways that others aspire to do but haven’t succeeded. In Bournemouth’s case I think it was more to do with being bankrolled, but I’m not expert on either club. I suspect Bournemouth will revert to the norm over time because like Wigan it’s a club of limited substance. Obviously the financial structure of the game is protecting clubs which reach the Premier League. That may change.swordfish said:@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
In this case my simple point has nothing to do with the ownership - it is fairly obvious that L1 performance is heavily shaped by how much is spent on players. Charlton have and continue to outspend most clubs in the division regardless of the sustainability of that in the medium term - hence all other things being equal they should outperform those clubs.
Now I accept that all other things are not equal in practice - clubs identify young talent and key players get injured - but often it is about football management, however you define that.
it’s very likely that there isn’t a single club spending more than Charlton below us in the final table last season and there are multiple clubs above us spending less.
We probably spend between two and three times as much on players as Accrington, yet they have easily the better record in the fixture. That is underperformance.As for the “natural level” the reality is that clubs like Accrington can operate in L1 and L2 with some but not much financial support because of their low overheads. Charlton cannot.That is why TS’s “treble the revenue in L1” line is dangerous nonsense. It isn’t possible.
I’m not saying the Championship is easy but the unavoidable loss is certainly lower and if there is more dispersal of PL funds that should become more so. In L1 sooner or later the Charlton owner runs out of money or enthusiasm.
To recap I am not even complaining about yesterday - I am saying that a club spending what Charlton is spending on players should expect to outperform clubs like Stanley more often than not. The fact we haven’t is failure.
You only have go to half the grounds in this division to see that their clubs should be unable to outperform Charlton most of the time. But on any given day or season of course they can, whoever is owner or manager.1 -
I disagree with Airman Brown about the Championship. the losses in the Championship are higher than in League one. For example player wages are on average 5 times or more higher. the average club loss in the Championship must be of the order of 15 million pounds a season.paulfox said:
Get what is being said here, but expecting to out perform teams due to what we are spending on players doesn’t mean success, that’s just not football is it. If it was we might as well just dish out points without playing. And that would not run true with some of our success against the odds in the past. It’s not quite so black and white is my point.Airman Brown said:
I think Brentford have been clever and exploited the player market in ways that others aspire to do but haven’t succeeded. In Bournemouth’s case I think it was more to do with being bankrolled, but I’m not expert on either club. I suspect Bournemouth will revert to the norm over time because like Wigan it’s a club of limited substance. Obviously the financial structure of the game is protecting clubs which reach the Premier League. That may change.swordfish said:@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
In this case my simple point has nothing to do with the ownership - it is fairly obvious that L1 performance is heavily shaped by how much is spent on players. Charlton have and continue to outspend most clubs in the division regardless of the sustainability of that in the medium term - hence all other things being equal they should outperform those clubs.
Now I accept that all other things are not equal in practice - clubs identify young talent and key players get injured - but often it is about football management, however you define that.
it’s very likely that there isn’t a single club spending more than Charlton below us in the final table last season and there are multiple clubs above us spending less.
We probably spend between two and three times as much on players as Accrington, yet they have easily the better record in the fixture. That is underperformance.As for the “natural level” the reality is that clubs like Accrington can operate in L1 and L2 with some but not much financial support because of their low overheads. Charlton cannot.That is why TS’s “treble the revenue in L1” line is dangerous nonsense. It isn’t possible.
I’m not saying the Championship is easy but the unavoidable loss is certainly lower and if there is more dispersal of PL funds that should become more so. In L1 sooner or later the Charlton owner runs out of money or enthusiasm.
To recap I am not even complaining about yesterday - I am saying that a club spending what Charlton is spending on players should expect to outperform clubs like Stanley more often than not. The fact we haven’t is failure.0 -
We of all clubs should appreciate winning against the odds!!🙄🤣Airman Brown said:
Yes, of course, the fact it isn’t just about money is what makes it interesting, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t about money at all. In practice it’s mostly about financial power, and when the difference is overwhelming then the failure in not producing corresponding results is bigger.paulfox said:
Yes if teams persist with the bigger spending it does eventually tend to work, but there are always the exceptions to the rule which gives teams hope, thankfully in my view, as it wouldn’t half get boring.Airman Brown said:
And yet the league table says otherwise and not just in L1. I agree you can’t just turn up and expect to win, but over time spending power is the single biggest predictor of success and has been for many years.paulfox said:
Get what is being said here, but expecting to out perform teams due to what we are spending on players doesn’t mean success, that’s just not football is it. If it was we might as well just dish out points without playing. And that would not run true with some of our success against the odds in the past. It’s not quite so black and white is my point.Airman Brown said:
I think Brentford have been clever and exploited the player market in ways that others aspire to do but haven’t succeeded. In Bournemouth’s case I think it was more to do with being bankrolled, but I’m not expert on either club. I suspect Bournemouth will revert to the norm over time because like Wigan it’s a club of limited substance. Obviously the financial structure of the game is protecting clubs which reach the Premier League. That may change.swordfish said:@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
In this case my simple point has nothing to do with the ownership - it is fairly obvious that L1 performance is heavily shaped by how much is spent on players. Charlton have and continue to outspend most clubs in the division regardless of the sustainability of that in the medium term - hence all other things being equal they should outperform those clubs.
Now I accept that all other things are not equal in practice - clubs identify young talent and key players get injured - but often it is about football management, however you define that.
it’s very likely that there isn’t a single club spending more than Charlton below us in the final table last season and there are multiple clubs above us spending less.
We probably spend between two and three times as much on players as Accrington, yet they have easily the better record in the fixture. That is underperformance.As for the “natural level” the reality is that clubs like Accrington can operate in L1 and L2 with some but not much financial support because of their low overheads. Charlton cannot.That is why TS’s “treble the revenue in L1” line is dangerous nonsense. It isn’t possible.
I’m not saying the Championship is easy but the unavoidable loss is certainly lower and if there is more dispersal of PL funds that should become more so. In L1 sooner or later the Charlton owner runs out of money or enthusiasm.
To recap I am not even complaining about yesterday - I am saying that a club spending what Charlton is spending on players should expect to outperform clubs like Stanley more often than not. The fact we haven’t is failure.
You only have go to half the grounds in this division to see that their clubs should be unable to outperform Charlton most of the time. But on any given day or season of course they can, whoever is owner or manager.1 -
Everyone knows you are miserable but I never thought you were stupid. Surely on a wind up? If we score 92 goals this season and don't go up it won't be the attacks fault.golfaddick said:
YESJac_52 said:golfaddick said:Been driving down to Cornwall for most of the day. Only got into our holiday lodge around 4.30 to then hear we had been pegged back to 1-1. Golfie Jnr went delirious when Leaburn then scored what must be the winner at 90+4. How can we not hold onto a lead for 90 seconds. Had us down for a 1-1 so wasn't far wrong.
As I've said until I'm blue in the face......until we can bolster our attack we wont be scoring enough goals to win games. End of.
You think the attack that scored 2 goals is the problem rather than the defence that conceded 2?
If we had been 3-0 up we wouldnt have lost. I hear we were dominant for parts of the 1st half & missed some chances. Put those away then we wouldn't have lost
And the game is about scoring goals & not about not letting them in. You cant win a game of football if you dont score. It is that simple.
0 -
I’ve wondered who should be closer to their right mid who has so much space to control and play across the box without any challenge when we only have to strangle space for 75 seconds to win the game. I can’t really tell from the clip and wasn’t there, but Kirk seems to be a good 20m from SS. Between the two, someone should be closer but glad to hear Kirk looked better as it’s this type of defensive work I worry about most from Kirk. But I say again, I wasn’t there and the clip I’ve seen is not long enough to truly judge if Kirk or another should have been further back to support.paulfox said:Not sure if it’s been mentioned, admittedly not world beating, but thought Kirk did ok and looked interested when he came on. Wasn’t sure whether he’d just come back and tread water.0 -
Conceding in injury time just after we've scored smacks of unprofessionalism .. 2-1 up with only a very short time to play ? .. hack it anywhere away from the goal, pull all eleven back and DEFEND .. not pretty but effective and a decent way to ensure a needed away win .. otherwise, getting a point at Dirty Stanley is not a bad result .. the next 2 games will tell us a LOT1
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Compare Charlton’s operating losses in the Championship with those in L1 or Millwall’s with Charlton’s.The average is meaningless because of the outliers.msomerton said:
I disagree with Airman Brown about the Championship. the losses in the Championship are higher than in League one. For example player wages are on average 5 times or more higher. the average club loss in the Championship must be of the order of 15 million pounds a season.paulfox said:
Get what is being said here, but expecting to out perform teams due to what we are spending on players doesn’t mean success, that’s just not football is it. If it was we might as well just dish out points without playing. And that would not run true with some of our success against the odds in the past. It’s not quite so black and white is my point.Airman Brown said:
I think Brentford have been clever and exploited the player market in ways that others aspire to do but haven’t succeeded. In Bournemouth’s case I think it was more to do with being bankrolled, but I’m not expert on either club. I suspect Bournemouth will revert to the norm over time because like Wigan it’s a club of limited substance. Obviously the financial structure of the game is protecting clubs which reach the Premier League. That may change.swordfish said:@Airman Brown I should have said 'near catastrophe' or 'relative oblivion' although the latter doesn't lend itself to varying degrees, but the point of my post wasn't to rewrite history. I used that as context because many were just happy to still have a Club to follow just two years ago post ESI, which is 'relatively speaking' not that long ago. However, expectations of where we should be now compared to then seem to have risen markedly.
You think of us as naturally being of Championship level. Apart from the fan base potential, facilities and tradition, is that because it's predominantly been the norm in your lifetime?
If so, is it your expectation that the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth will eventually return to scrapping with Millwall at the foot of L1 like they have been for much of mine, because I can't see that, not with ludicrous Premier league money offering them the potential to build better long term futures. You'll probably say you couldn't car less about them I know, but we don't play in a vacuum and other Club's successes or failures will ultimately affect our own horizons.
In this case my simple point has nothing to do with the ownership - it is fairly obvious that L1 performance is heavily shaped by how much is spent on players. Charlton have and continue to outspend most clubs in the division regardless of the sustainability of that in the medium term - hence all other things being equal they should outperform those clubs.
Now I accept that all other things are not equal in practice - clubs identify young talent and key players get injured - but often it is about football management, however you define that.
it’s very likely that there isn’t a single club spending more than Charlton below us in the final table last season and there are multiple clubs above us spending less.
We probably spend between two and three times as much on players as Accrington, yet they have easily the better record in the fixture. That is underperformance.As for the “natural level” the reality is that clubs like Accrington can operate in L1 and L2 with some but not much financial support because of their low overheads. Charlton cannot.That is why TS’s “treble the revenue in L1” line is dangerous nonsense. It isn’t possible.
I’m not saying the Championship is easy but the unavoidable loss is certainly lower and if there is more dispersal of PL funds that should become more so. In L1 sooner or later the Charlton owner runs out of money or enthusiasm.
To recap I am not even complaining about yesterday - I am saying that a club spending what Charlton is spending on players should expect to outperform clubs like Stanley more often than not. The fact we haven’t is failure.
0 -
Accrington only lost 5 games at home last season. Wigans home total points was 44 and Accrington’s was 42.
On top of this there were a lot of individual positives to take from the game. We will get better as a team!!
We move on to Derby!..19 -
To be honest I wasn’t judging Kirk by his defensive responsibilities, I’d just noticed attacking wise he seemed a bit better than his efforts last season. I’m not going to pin the equaliser on him.dandydoody said:
I’ve wondered who should be closer to their right mid who has so much space to control and play across the box without any challenge when we only have to strangle space for 75 seconds to win the game. I can’t really tell from the clip and wasn’t there, but Kirk seems to be a good 20m from SS. Between the two, someone should be closer but glad to hear Kirk looked better as it’s this type of defensive work I worry about most from Kirk. But I say again, I wasn’t there and the clip I’ve seen is not long enough to truly judge if Kirk or another should have been further back to support.paulfox said:Not sure if it’s been mentioned, admittedly not world beating, but thought Kirk did ok and looked interested when he came on. Wasn’t sure whether he’d just come back and tread water.0 -
I enjoyed the game (on stream) and thought we played some nice stuff, looked composed, generally knew what we were doing, or at least, knew what we were trying to do. Breath of fresh air after last season and we didn't play out from the back very time and I thought it was good to vary it.
As others have observed we obviously faded in the second half.
I also think Accrington were severely underestimated by many. They were physical but did not play hoofball and some of their football was fast and and precise, including their second goal. They could easily have been leading at half time. They looked fitter and more determined to me and liked a shot.
My major concern was that with Fraser + Morgan + DJ + CBT we lack much physical presence and it leaves too much for Dobson to do. Those four all did alright but in combination it makes us too powder-puff in midfield for a League 1 physical battle.6 -
I don't normally post in these threads but yesterday I felt it was a fair result albeit disappointing after Miles had appeared to bag us the points.
Of the newbies. On first inspection Wollacott looks like an upgrade , O Connell played well apart from his involvement in the goals. The first he got turned , for the second if he had been in position he could have intercepted the cross. Let's hope he has a good season and these were blips. Sessingon looks a good players but we need a left footed left back if we have right footed wingers on that side. If we sign JRS then maybe this can work.
Of the subs McGrandles will improve with matches. Payne showed his quality with the ball to Leaburn and the best compliment I can give Miles is that he didn't look out of place at this level.
My realistic ambition is that we can stay within 5 points of promotion by the New Year and maybe we can go for it after the winter transfer window.4 -
Everybody is aren’t they to some extent? Can’t really make any sort of judgement until we have played eight to ten games.Clarky said:
There are certainly some who are defining our whole season on the first 96 mins of football!AllHailTheHen said:I get the impression from some people's comments on here that they're almost happy we conceded in the last seconds as it gives them the ammo to bitch about everything. It's the first game of the season FFS. New manager, players, system. Just give it a few more games before writing off the season at least.3 -
Think you are right about Stockley and if he’s dropping deep, half way line territority, and linking up to start moves from there he won’t be in the box in time to finish any chances created. Don’t see him being effective, goalscoring wise, in this system.soapboxsam said:killerandflash said:Swindon last season were top of all the attacking stats, but didn't get automatic promotion due to defensive frailties. Today's game suggests more of the same.
Agree
I wasn't being negative when the majority were going ape about the stats but when you studied all the stats, Swindon only won 9 out of 23 home games and conceded the most goals out of the top 10 in League 2.
I can only look at football one way and that is analytically. Stockley will be decent in laying the ball off but it will take away from his play in the box, plus Stockley is better in a two. Check out Jayden's record in a 2 or 3.
We will be the draw specialists and you only get 1 point.0 -
He can be our Olivier GiroudLargeAddick said:
Think you are right about Stockley and if he’s dropping deep, half way line territority, and linking up to start moves from there he won’t be in the box in time to finish any chances created. Don’t see him being effective, goalscoring wise, in this system.soapboxsam said:killerandflash said:Swindon last season were top of all the attacking stats, but didn't get automatic promotion due to defensive frailties. Today's game suggests more of the same.
Agree
I wasn't being negative when the majority were going ape about the stats but when you studied all the stats, Swindon only won 9 out of 23 home games and conceded the most goals out of the top 10 in League 2.
I can only look at football one way and that is analytically. Stockley will be decent in laying the ball off but it will take away from his play in the box, plus Stockley is better in a two. Check out Jayden's record in a 2 or 3.
We will be the draw specialists and you only get 1 point.0 -
He did have a great chance couple of mins into the second half that should have sealed it.LargeAddick said:
Think you are right about Stockley and if he’s dropping deep, half way line territority, and linking up to start moves from there he won’t be in the box in time to finish any chances created. Don’t see him being effective, goalscoring wise, in this system.soapboxsam said:killerandflash said:Swindon last season were top of all the attacking stats, but didn't get automatic promotion due to defensive frailties. Today's game suggests more of the same.
Agree
I wasn't being negative when the majority were going ape about the stats but when you studied all the stats, Swindon only won 9 out of 23 home games and conceded the most goals out of the top 10 in League 2.
I can only look at football one way and that is analytically. Stockley will be decent in laying the ball off but it will take away from his play in the box, plus Stockley is better in a two. Check out Jayden's record in a 2 or 3.
We will be the draw specialists and you only get 1 point.1 -
But I wasn't talking about Leaburn. I happened to mention on here a few days ago that Pompey were putting together a tidy squad & mentioned their front 2 - Bishop & Piggott. I once again got ridiculed with people saying that we are better off with Stockley & Aneke so I then pointed out that Pompeys 2 would probably score more than our (named) 2. Therefore just wanted to update the current tally.Scoham said:
Not to mention our own striker making his debut also scored.FishCostaFortune said:
Didn’t score enough goals to win though did they Golfie?golfaddick said:So it seems Accy didn't miss Colby Bishop as they still managed to score 2 against us & then said striker scored on his debut for Pompey (from the highlights it looked to me like he got 2 but he's only been credited with one.
So currently my Bishop/Piggott v Stockley/Aneke is 1-0.
Or does that criticism you aimed at us yesterday not apply to them?
I dont mind getting stick on here but at least keep it to the point I'm making. Or does that not fit in with the agenda.2
