Everyone keeps saying that Stockley doesn't suit our system. He doesn't suit any system because he isn't very good. He seems to be missing chances more than ever. Must have spent too much time watching Washington in front of goal.
He scored 20 goals in 38 appearances last season.
13 league goals.
He scored 20 goals in 38 appearances last season.
7 against non league teams / league 2 teams & U23's.
Its against your peers you are measured. In the league.
Everyone keeps saying that Stockley doesn't suit our system. He doesn't suit any system because he isn't very good. He seems to be missing chances more than ever. Must have spent too much time watching Washington in front of goal.
He scored 20 goals in 38 appearances last season.
13 league goals.
He scored 20 goals in 38 appearances last season.
7 against non league teams / league 2 teams & U23's.
Its against your peers you are measured. In the league.
Well in the league he worked out as a goal every 2.5 games and that's when dealing with an injury and coming back to fitness.
So I'd say he measures up pretty damn well to his peers in the league actually.
Well I would have tried to bring in a couple of striking options before say McGrandles (who I like btw) but we have two decent midfielders we don't want and Henry. So you go through the list of where goals are coming from and if you say give Stockley 15 which I think is pretty conservative what do you give the others in the front three. We have the Palace lad who is a prospect but an unknown to me- maybe he will help. We have CBT who we need as a threat but who has very little composure. I do like the idea of working to improve that but I doubt that is a new idea.
Payne may get a few but the rest only a smattering IMO. Innis ought to but he hasn't looked the threat he did a couple of seasons ago for some reason. Lavelle mught chip in but he isn't in the side. I add them all up with what we have and our biggest contributor to a small total is Stockley.
Well I would have tried to bring in a couple of striking options before say McGrandles (who I like btw) but we have two decent midfielders we don't want and Henry. So you go through the list of where goals are coming from and if you say give Stockley 15 which I think is pretty conservative what do you give the others in the front three. We have the Palace lad who is a prospect but an unknown to me- maybe he will help. We have CBT who we need as a threat but who has very little composure. I do like the idea of working to improve that but I doubt that is a new idea.
Payne may get a few but the rest only a smattering IMO. Innis ought to but he hasn't looked the threat he did a couple of seasons ago for some reason. Lavelle mught chip in but he isn't in the side. I add them all up with what we have and our biggest contributor to a small total is Stockley.
As the main striker he should be the biggest contributor of goals by far. The way you were talking I thought that you were going to apportion blame to others for the lack of goals whilst absolving Stockley of any responsibilty for that lack. I really want Stockley to score bundles of league goals this season (couldn't give a toss how many he scores in the cups) but I haven't seen anything in his game to suggest that that will be the case. I hope he proves me wrong.
What I do is look how many goals you probably need then look at where they are likely to come from. As the squad stands, whether you like Stockley or not, he is likely to be our major contributor. So of course you have to look at the goals the others will provide.
I didn't do this out loud, but when I managed at youth level I categorized every player a scorer and a misser which helped me know I had to get more scorers. The scorer part is relative to the position and obviously you don't expect midfielders to beat strikers. Some very good players just cant score and you do need a few that can especially if you are not a team where the majority of your goals is going to come from your strikers or in our case striker.
A different level of course, but I think the principle stands at all levels. You do sometimes get missers who become scorers but it isn't common and it is a bit pie in the sky expecting that you can coach them to be scorers. A point I have made previously about CBT is, do we honestly think that a player with his obvious attributes and talent hasn't had coaches think, if only I could get some composure into him. They would have been doing it through his career and the reason he is with us is down to their lack of success. I still like him though but we need his share of goals from somebody else. Just one example you need to apply all over.
I think that you are right about expecting goals from all parts of the team. I wouldn't expect too many from CBT, especially if he stays on the right. I hope that the Palace lad can play on the right so that CBT can switch back to the left. My worry with Stockley is that it puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team if he isn't scoring. He didn't have a single attempt at goal on Saturday and that isn't good enough, especially if the rest of his game isn't providing chances for others. Carl Leaburn showed that it isn't all about goals. Unfortunately, Jayden doesn't appear strong enough in the air or on the deck to do the type of things that Carlo used to do to bring others into play.
I think that you are right about expecting goals from all parts of the team. I wouldn't expect too many from CBT, especially if he stays on the right. I hope that the Palace lad can play on the right so that CBT can switch back to the left. My worry with Stockley is that it puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team if he isn't scoring. He didn't have a single attempt at goal on Saturday and that isn't good enough, especially if the rest of his game isn't providing chances for others. Carl Leaburn showed that it isn't all about goals. Unfortunately, Jayden doesn't appear strong enough in the air or on the deck to do the type of things that Carlo used to do to bring others into play.
Fair point. I can understand what you are saying but we are not going to replace him having made him captain so if we are going to do anything this season we do need to look beyond him to solve the puzzle. Well Garner does but as this is a forum I don't see what is wrong with us airing our views.
I believe that the best way to find a positive is being able to identify a negative and act on it. It feels like some think it is best not to look for it.
Of course we don't necessarily need goals from all parts. We need the goals we are likely to get from the players we have, playing the system we do to add up to the amount you usually need to get in the play offs at least. Not an exact science but it gives you an idea where we are.
Personally i think Garner's comment is a classic case of under promising and over delivering. If he says we're looking at strikers and we'll definitely bring one in, he looks pretty stupid if he fails. So now when we sign one and i'm convinced we will, everyone will be happy.
He hasn't even said we won't sign one. He said 'unless things move and change'. Well in football, and especially in the last few days of a transfer window, things move and change quite a lot.
The club aren't stupid, they must know we need one, and i'm sure we will get one. Our season pretty much depends on it.
So we agree basically. Where we differ is what we think of the owner. Some of us think he is stupid (in football terms I must clarify) and some think he isn't. I used your term, clueless is probably fairer than stupid. It explains why a lot of us are sitting on different sides of the fence.
Everyone keeps saying that Stockley doesn't suit our system. He doesn't suit any system because he isn't very good. He seems to be missing chances more than ever. Must have spent too much time watching Washington in front of goal.
He scored 20 goals in 38 appearances last season.
13 league goals.
He scored 20 goals in 38 appearances last season.
7 against non league teams / league 2 teams & U23's.
Its against your peers you are measured. In the league.
This point has already been addressed. The figure is 20 in 38. 13 in 33 in the league. So, not outstanding and not shit either. But stick to your narrative if it helps.
So we agree basically. Where we differ is what we think of the owner. Some of us think he is stupid (in football terms I must clarify) and some think he isn't. I used your term, clueless is probably fairer than stupid. It explains why a lot of us are sitting on different sides of the fence.
Well we all know TS is stupid, he must've been to buy us!
I prefer clueless in football terms as I am sure he isn't stupid in all honesty. I just used the word from the previous poster for effect.
I was watching a game with a musician friend visiting and Addicks to Victory came on. I was a bit embarressed by it but he said he was quite impressed with it. He knows more about music than me so I will acknowledge that talent and you don't get Sandgaard's wealth from being stupid.
Looking around the division, I see Marquis scored the winner for Brizzle Rovers, Bishop scored 2 for Pompey (1 from the spot) and Conor Wickham scored for FGR...
Funny, when I said the exact same thing on the match thread yesterday I got pelters & abused.
We've had 3 months to sign a striker & now you want it done in 2 weeks.
Ain't happening folks. We signed JRS & he will be used as one of the wide strikers in a front 3. If we do happen to being in a "striker" it will be another unproven loanee. We wont be paying money for a 25 year old with a goal scoring record in the EFL.
It is like that on here. Some can write stuff on here. Others write the same and whoosh. Spite and cat calling everywhere.
At least you managed to write a post without using the word "A&eke"
Personally i think Garner's comment is a classic case of under promising and over delivering. If he says we're looking at strikers and we'll definitely bring one in, he looks pretty stupid if he fails. So now when we sign one and i'm convinced we will, everyone will be happy.
He hasn't even said we won't sign one. He said 'unless things move and change'. Well in football, and especially in the last few days of a transfer window, things move and change quite a lot.
The club aren't stupid, they must know we need one, and i'm sure we will get one. Our season pretty much depends on it.
But this isn't a sudden August 2022 problem is it?
If your preferred system has one center forward you need 3 and if you prefer 2 you need 4. I think that's fair?
The only period we have had 4, in the last few years was Stockley, Washington, Aneke and Shwartz.
Even in the championship we used Leko and Green as strikers. Even in 18/19 we were 1 short most of the season.
I get that we haven't got unlimited money and it's right that we have a budget and stick to it but if we can't get a striker because we have spent the budget, why have we signed 4 central midfielders since we signed a striker?
Personally i think Garner's comment is a classic case of under promising and over delivering. If he says we're looking at strikers and we'll definitely bring one in, he looks pretty stupid if he fails. So now when we sign one and i'm convinced we will, everyone will be happy.
He hasn't even said we won't sign one. He said 'unless things move and change'. Well in football, and especially in the last few days of a transfer window, things move and change quite a lot.
The club aren't stupid, they must know we need one, and i'm sure we will get one. Our season pretty much depends on it.
But this isn't a sudden August 2022 problem is it?
If your preferred system has one center forward you need 3 and if you prefer 2 you need 4. I think that's fair?
The only period we have had 4, in the last few years was Stockley, Washington, Aneke and Shwartz.
Even in the championship we used Leko and Green as strikers. Even in 18/19 we were 1 short most of the season.
I get that we haven't got unlimited money and it's right that we have a budget and stick to it but if we can't get a striker because we have spent the budget, why have we signed 4 central midfielders since we signed a striker?
That's the bit I don't understand.
Yes i completely agree with that, and even more baffling that JFC got a new contract and now we're allegedly trying to offload him. But i still think we'll bring a striker in.
One problem is that TS only really spends on players who have potential sell on value. He refers to them not as players but 'investments' even. This excludes a lot of proven goal scorers who might consider dropping down the league in their twighlight years and who may do a job in League One.
I imagine we'll get a young loan signing in, if anything..
Aneke, Fraser, Shwartz, Stockley weren't the type of players you sign for resale value. That's a lot of money spent.
Kirk is.
Not sure DJ and Clare were are were they just cheap?
Anneke, maybe not. Schwartz was a whim to appease TS's vanity as the new boss. Everyone else are mid-twenties and have, or would have been seen to have sell on potential. You forgot Dobson.
I'm sure sell on potential is of the highest priority for TS. That's also why he's so keen to get the academy upgraded.
Everyone keeps saying that Stockley doesn't suit our system. He doesn't suit any system because he isn't very good. He seems to be missing chances more than ever. Must have spent too much time watching Washington in front of goal.
He scored 20 goals in 38 appearances last season.
13 league goals.
He scored 20 goals in 38 appearances last season.
7 against non league teams / league 2 teams & U23's.
Its against your peers you are measured. In the league.
This point has already been addressed. The figure is 20 in 38. 13 in 33 in the league. So, not outstanding and not shit either. But stick to your narrative if it helps.
I've never said Stockley isnt any good, just that he wont score enough as your main striker to get you promoted.
And once again people are talking about other players "chipping in" with goals (Garner himself said it). Apart from Payne the rest of the front 5 or 6 players were all here last year (in some form or another) and I dont think anyone scored more than twice. I understand that Garner is a coach & he knows better than most how to get players scoring, but as I've said a few times lately, he'll have a hard time turning around our shot shy hit 'em high midfielders into clinical finishers that will end up with half a dozen apiece.
I think if you did a poll amongst Charlton players of which position do we need to sign a player for, a striker would probably be very high on that list.
1) Are we trying to be clever, and get someone at the last minute in a deal that makes sense, and that won’t blow the budget & bankrupt the club?
2) Are we waiting for a loan player, where the parent club haven’t made up their mind on their squad, or want to see how they start the season (good / poor form or early door injuries kick in and said player is much needed by them?
3) Do the recruitment team think what we have is strong enough, and we dont need any more forwards, become they don’t suit the system, and we can’t fit them into the team?
4) Thomas is feeling the pinch, and enough is enough, he’s fed up of the abuse on social media, & he wants out!
Whatever the reason / excuse, if we don’t get out of this division, another 8 million is going down the Khazi if we don’t bring another goal scorer into the team, when you put it like that it sharpens your decision making, I know we all want a stable well run club, but I am sick of this division, where players can’t even string a pass together, and this is their job!
One problem is that TS only really spends on players who have potential sell on value. He refers to them not as players but 'investments' even. This excludes a lot of proven goal scorers who might consider dropping down the league in their twighlight years and who may do a job in League One.
I imagine we'll get a young loan signing in, if anything..
Aneke, Fraser, Shwartz, Stockley weren't the type of players you sign for resale value. That's a lot of money spent.
Kirk is.
Not sure DJ and Clare were are were they just cheap?
Anneke, maybe not. Schwartz was a whim to appease TS's vanity as the new boss. Everyone else are mid-twenties and have, or would have been seen to have sell on potential. You forgot Dobson.
I'm sure sell on potential is of the highest priority for TS. That's also why he's so keen to get the academy upgraded.
I didn't include Dobson because we didn't pay for him. The others are/were highly unlikely to ever have been sold for a profit. Certainly not a significant one.
Stockley is a great player and I'm glad we have him. Think he's a leader and adds stuff to the team mentality wise.
He'll get goals. Aneke is top drawer ability wise for this league but can't guarantee availability.
Need competition for Stockley and back up in case he needs a rest/;has injuries.
Need a depth of squad options (relative to League One) for a sustainable promotion push over 46 games.
I think Stockley is a great charlton player...just need to ensure backup/ competition if we are vying for promotion.
Not sure I rate him quite as highly as you Rodders, but he is a lot better than many give him credit for. Put it this way, if he were playing for the opposition I'd be seriously worried as to whether we could contain him. That said, he does have limitations and maybe he suffers by comparison to predecessors like Taylor and Kermorgant. That's not Stockley's fault but I'd be a lot more confident of our chances of promotion if we had somebody of their calibre in the squad
Comments
Its against your peers you are measured. In the league.
So I'd say he measures up pretty damn well to his peers in the league actually.
Payne may get a few but the rest only a smattering IMO. Innis ought to but he hasn't looked the threat he did a couple of seasons ago for some reason. Lavelle mught chip in but he isn't in the side. I add them all up with what we have and our biggest contributor to a small total is Stockley.
I didn't do this out loud, but when I managed at youth level I categorized every player a scorer and a misser which helped me know I had to get more scorers. The scorer part is relative to the position and obviously you don't expect midfielders to beat strikers. Some very good players just cant score and you do need a few that can especially if you are not a team where the majority of your goals is going to come from your strikers or in our case striker.
A different level of course, but I think the principle stands at all levels. You do sometimes get missers who become scorers but it isn't common and it is a bit pie in the sky expecting that you can coach them to be scorers. A point I have made previously about CBT is, do we honestly think that a player with his obvious attributes and talent hasn't had coaches think, if only I could get some composure into him. They would have been doing it through his career and the reason he is with us is down to their lack of success. I still like him though but we need his share of goals from somebody else. Just one example you need to apply all over.
My worry with Stockley is that it puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team if he isn't scoring. He didn't have a single attempt at goal on Saturday and that isn't good enough, especially if the rest of his game isn't providing chances for others.
Carl Leaburn showed that it isn't all about goals. Unfortunately, Jayden doesn't appear strong enough in the air or on the deck to do the type of things that Carlo used to do to bring others into play.
I believe that the best way to find a positive is being able to identify a negative and act on it. It feels like some think it is best not to look for it.
He hasn't even said we won't sign one. He said 'unless things move and change'. Well in football, and especially in the last few days of a transfer window, things move and change quite a lot.
The club aren't stupid, they must know we need one, and i'm sure we will get one. Our season pretty much depends on it.
I was watching a game with a musician friend visiting and Addicks to Victory came on. I was a bit embarressed by it but he said he was quite impressed with it. He knows more about music than me so I will acknowledge that talent and you don't get Sandgaard's wealth from being stupid.
If your preferred system has one center forward you need 3 and if you prefer 2 you need 4. I think that's fair?
The only period we have had 4, in the last few years was Stockley, Washington, Aneke and Shwartz.
Even in the championship we used Leko and Green as strikers. Even in 18/19 we were 1 short most of the season.
I get that we haven't got unlimited money and it's right that we have a budget and stick to it but if we can't get a striker because we have spent the budget, why have we signed 4 central midfielders since we signed a striker?
That's the bit I don't understand.
And once again people are talking about other players "chipping in" with goals (Garner himself said it). Apart from Payne the rest of the front 5 or 6 players were all here last year (in some form or another) and I dont think anyone scored more than twice. I understand that Garner is a coach & he knows better than most how to get players scoring, but as I've said a few times lately, he'll have a hard time turning around our shot shy hit 'em high midfielders into clinical finishers that will end up with half a dozen apiece.
1) Are we trying to be clever, and get someone at the last minute in a deal that makes sense, and that won’t blow the budget & bankrupt the club?
2) Are we waiting for a loan player, where the parent club haven’t made up their mind on their squad, or want to see how they start the season (good / poor form or early door injuries kick in and said player is much needed by them?
3) Do the recruitment team think what we have is strong enough, and we dont need any more forwards, become they don’t suit the system, and we can’t fit them into the team?
4) Thomas is feeling the pinch, and enough is enough, he’s fed up of the abuse on social media, & he wants out!
Whatever the reason / excuse, if we don’t get out of this division, another 8 million is going down the Khazi if we don’t bring another goal scorer into the team, when you put it like that it sharpens your decision making, I know we all want a stable well run club, but I am sick of this division, where players can’t even string a pass together, and this is their job!
He'll get goals. Aneke is top drawer ability wise for this league but can't guarantee availability.
Need competition for Stockley and back up in case he needs a rest/;has injuries.
Need a depth of squad options (relative to League One) for a sustainable promotion push over 46 games.
I think Stockley is a great charlton player...just need to ensure backup/ competition if we are vying for promotion.
Put it this way, if he were playing for the opposition I'd be seriously worried as to whether we could contain him.
That said, he does have limitations and maybe he suffers by comparison to predecessors like Taylor and Kermorgant.
That's not Stockley's fault but I'd be a lot more confident of our chances of promotion if we had somebody of their calibre in the squad
Not sure many of them about now but whoever unearths the next one deserves the freedom of Woolwich.
Thank God for that.