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Post-match Thread: Charlton Athletic v Forest Green Rovers | Tuesday 13 September 2022 7:45PM
Comments
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We have a squad, set up for 433, with 4 wide attackers (Kirk, CBT, JRS, DJ) and others who can play there (Leaburn, Payne), that completely lacks a "penalty box" type to play off Stockley in a 2. Last season we had the option of Washington or Burstow to play alongside Stockley...Scoham said:
He doesn’t, Pompey play 4-4-2 so he’s only up against one CB.cs1986 said:
How do other youngsters do it then? Dane Scarlett for example.aliwibble said:
I don't question him being a first team member, but he's not ready to lead the line, especially as a lone striker. Being successful up against a couple of horrible League One defenders requires experience that he just doesn't have yet.RaplhMilne said:Not criticising Miles Leaburn, but when his weakness is obvious against Forest Green, then you have to question his being a first team member.
I couldn’t watch most of the game last night but Garner needs to find a way to play 2 strikers.
For better or worse we're stuck with this now.0 -
I like the 'gay abandon' that garner seems to approach games with but you can't go out all guns blaizing if you've got very little ammunition - i don't think he was half as forceful as he should have been about the need for at least one more striker and has to be partly culpbable here - how come we've signed so many players in other positions and still don't have a goalscorer at the club? We are nearly a decent side but no goal threat, no chance.3
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This is really bugging me. Going back to last summer there was article in the SLP about Adkins speaking to Gallen every day about "getting the keeper and the center foward right".Scoham said:
He doesn’t, Pompey play 4-4-2 so he’s only up against one CB.cs1986 said:
How do other youngsters do it then? Dane Scarlett for example.aliwibble said:
I don't question him being a first team member, but he's not ready to lead the line, especially as a lone striker. Being successful up against a couple of horrible League One defenders requires experience that he just doesn't have yet.RaplhMilne said:Not criticising Miles Leaburn, but when his weakness is obvious against Forest Green, then you have to question his being a first team member.
I couldn’t watch most of the game last night but Garner needs to find a way to play 2 strikers.
We signed Stockley for, by league 1 standards, a lot of money. On a long deal.
We were always going to play 4231/433 under Adkins and Garner. That's a big reason they both got the job IMO.
They both dropped him after half a dozen games.
It's a symptom of a bigger a problem if you ask me.4 -
I'm not convinced about this 443 lark and / or this shuffling it round the back continental tripe - didn't work last year, aint working now - boring football trying to emulate the premiership. Might work there and in the world cup etc but its a poor spectacle - nothing off the cuff ever seems to happen, defences get back behind the ball, we always go down the wing, turn back - play it acoss the 18 yard line, play it back and / or lob an aimless cross into the box - same last year - desperately need to get 2 up top - 1 a goalscorer, the other with a bit of craft - BWP / Kermorgant will do - even now !!! Not gonna happen i know - anyway, i'll bore off coz i'm bored even thinking about it nowCafc43v3r said:
This is really bugging me. Going back to last summer there was article in the SLP about Adkins speaking to Gallen every day about "getting the keeper and the center foward right".Scoham said:
He doesn’t, Pompey play 4-4-2 so he’s only up against one CB.cs1986 said:
How do other youngsters do it then? Dane Scarlett for example.aliwibble said:
I don't question him being a first team member, but he's not ready to lead the line, especially as a lone striker. Being successful up against a couple of horrible League One defenders requires experience that he just doesn't have yet.RaplhMilne said:Not criticising Miles Leaburn, but when his weakness is obvious against Forest Green, then you have to question his being a first team member.
I couldn’t watch most of the game last night but Garner needs to find a way to play 2 strikers.
We signed Stockley for, by league 1 standards, a lot of money. On a long deal.
We were always going to play 4231/433 under Adkins and Garner. That's a big reason they both got the job IMO.
They both dropped him after half a dozen games.
It's a symptom of a bigger a problem if you ask me.3 -
FRG are the next to worst side to visit The Valley in ages, only Argyle have plumbed those depths recently.
Deep in their own box the CH's were panicky and clumsy, how we only conceded one owed much more to luck than defensive adequacy.
Not only were they pony but that lacked any ambition, they were still parking the bus when a goal behind.
Their strategy relied on dead balls and hoping for a mistake. Wollacott obliged, FGR lapped it up and shut up shop.
Cue timewasting and shithousery, ably assisted by the woeful referee. FGR worked him out early, CAFC didn't have the brains for that.
Many changes to the lineup but no obvious coherence in whatever the plan or tactics were.
CAFC's grievous shortcomings at the back and up front are unquestioned but FGR were no better anywhere on the park.
McGrandles can have no complaints about his booking, his only contribution was to foul opponents. His showing to that point was as bad as any I've ever seen in Charlton red and I've seen Christophe Lepoint and Pawel Abbott. The card should have been the cue to hook him, but Garner chickened out and doubled down by sending him out 2nd half. Inexcusable.
Clare's booking was outrageous but he took nothing on board about how disgraceful the ref was. Clare subsequently led with his arm in aerial challenges and made one blatant (failed) attempt to control the ball with his hand which Busby ignored/missed. His track record for unnecessary yellows and suspensions is poor and we have no cover.
Innis was largely untroubled, nor should he have been by such weak opposition, and "took one for the team" for his first yellow. His 2nd yellow was moronic, even that clown referee couldn't get that wrong. Garner's defense of Innis makes prats of them both. Innis's impact on the Rover was late and dangerous yellow card no question.
Croydon said:
The more attacking players all gave it plenty but the decision making and final balls were uncommonly crap. Fraser's lack of energy and pace weren't missed, only perhaps his cooler temperament and better passing. That shouldn't be an easy conundrum to resolve but McGrandles is hopeless, Fraser replaces him immediately - then Garner has to replace SF after no more than an hour when his battery goes flat plus Dobbo has to do his usual double shift to cover all the ground. A wheezy hour with a few passes or risk Albie from the start and run the gamut of his erraticness? Garner will be guessing. If he selects McG, Garner's asking for a P45.
Seems Garner has belatedly caught on where Kirk is concerned. But that's the tiniest hint of a glimmer of light at the edge of Charlton's big, black, threatening cloud.
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anyway .. the fact that we couldn't beat FGR at home reinforces my simple theory .. there will be no easy games for us this season .. however, things would go a lot better if Garner, or whoever his successor might be, ditches pretty pretty ineffective at this level 4 3 3 and gets to know his best starting Xl .. also .. let's hope that Egbo is fit a s a p and that he brings some much needed solidity to our very shaky defence ..0
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I’m sure I’m going to get slaughtered for this but I honestly think, with the squad we have, that 3-5-2 is the way for us to go.Scoham said:
He doesn’t, Pompey play 4-4-2 so he’s only up against one CB.cs1986 said:
How do other youngsters do it then? Dane Scarlett for example.aliwibble said:
I don't question him being a first team member, but he's not ready to lead the line, especially as a lone striker. Being successful up against a couple of horrible League One defenders requires experience that he just doesn't have yet.RaplhMilne said:Not criticising Miles Leaburn, but when his weakness is obvious against Forest Green, then you have to question his being a first team member.
I couldn’t watch most of the game last night but Garner needs to find a way to play 2 strikers.0 -
It worked pretty well for Hull and Wigan in recent seasons. No reason it can't work.DOUCHER said:
I'm not convinced about this 443 lark and / or this shuffling it round the back continental tripe - didn't work last year, aint working now - boring football trying to emulate the premiership. Might work there and in the world cup etc but its a poor spectacle - nothing off the cuff ever seems to happen, defences get back behind the ball, we always go down the wing, turn back - play it acoss the 18 yard line, play it back and / or lob an aimless cross into the box - same last year - desperately need to get 2 up top - 1 a goalscorer, the other with a bit of craft - BWP / Kermorgant will do - even now !!! Not gonna happen i know - anyway, i'll bore off coz i'm bored even thinking about it nowCafc43v3r said:
This is really bugging me. Going back to last summer there was article in the SLP about Adkins speaking to Gallen every day about "getting the keeper and the center foward right".Scoham said:
He doesn’t, Pompey play 4-4-2 so he’s only up against one CB.cs1986 said:
How do other youngsters do it then? Dane Scarlett for example.aliwibble said:
I don't question him being a first team member, but he's not ready to lead the line, especially as a lone striker. Being successful up against a couple of horrible League One defenders requires experience that he just doesn't have yet.RaplhMilne said:Not criticising Miles Leaburn, but when his weakness is obvious against Forest Green, then you have to question his being a first team member.
I couldn’t watch most of the game last night but Garner needs to find a way to play 2 strikers.
We signed Stockley for, by league 1 standards, a lot of money. On a long deal.
We were always going to play 4231/433 under Adkins and Garner. That's a big reason they both got the job IMO.
They both dropped him after half a dozen games.
It's a symptom of a bigger a problem if you ask me.1 -
We don’t have a partner for Stockley so I can’t see how a front 2 would work. and we have some decent wide players so I would like to see 3-4-3 maybecharente addick said:
I’m sure I’m going to get slaughtered for this but I honestly think, with the squad we have, that 3-5-2 is the way for us to go.Scoham said:
He doesn’t, Pompey play 4-4-2 so he’s only up against one CB.cs1986 said:
How do other youngsters do it then? Dane Scarlett for example.aliwibble said:
I don't question him being a first team member, but he's not ready to lead the line, especially as a lone striker. Being successful up against a couple of horrible League One defenders requires experience that he just doesn't have yet.RaplhMilne said:Not criticising Miles Leaburn, but when his weakness is obvious against Forest Green, then you have to question his being a first team member.
I couldn’t watch most of the game last night but Garner needs to find a way to play 2 strikers.
Wollacott
Clare - Inniss - EOC
Egbo - Dobson - Fraser - CBT
JRS - Stockley - Payne
Allows the front players a bit more freedom to get closer to stockley with the wing backs still providing a threat from out wide. Would be a bit unsure on O’Connell out on the left, we really should have signed a left footed defender. Maybe when Sessegnon returns he could play LWB and offer a bit more defensively for tougher games
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One of the problems for BG is that in making Stockley captain in this preferred set up and dropping him at just the 8th game into the season, is kind of saying, it’s not working.
I admired his confidence in making the changes last night, but it’s becoming pretty clear is first XI aren’t good enough, which means the fringe players like Mansfield aren’t going to add much more0 - Sponsored links:
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Gravesend_Addick said:
Agree with this. If/when it clicks, we'll batter someoneLeuth said:Anyway, I maintain that we are going to dish out an absolute beasting to someone quite soon
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Yes, if you want to do it on the cheap it is a pragmatist you need. What have we got, who can we get to improve us etc... Only a complete fool tries to fundamentally change the style of play with a smaller budget. That is where Sandgaard comes in.Lincsaddick said:if Garner keeps up his (justified?) criticism of Sandy he could be gone by Christmas. Anyway, that might not be a bad thing, I mentioned up the page (e.g.) Cotterill at Shrewsbury, a manager picking horses for courses on a small budget. Garner is a football theorist, Cotterill a pragmatist. Pretty football will not get us out of this League, a team that works hard, is together and has a mean (not dirty) streak is needed. These attributes should be priorities over anything else.
I suspect that Garner is following Sandy's instructions and is playing nice drawing board football, very suited to the Premier League and skilful players who cost and earn millions. If Sandy expects champagne football on vinegar money, he's sorely self delusionary.
So Sandy, keep Garner and give him some cash or bring in a manager whose been round the block and back a few times who might be able to make our team into a silk purse from a sow's ear .. excuse the mixed metaphors1 -
Interesting that both Adkins and now Garner have left Stockley out of the team, TS has decided how we will play and clearly doesn't understand certain players are more comfortable in certain formations. Its a matter of time before Garner reverts to the JJ formation just to get results on the board.1
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I know last night was a poor result, but there are some overreactions on here today. We're not as bad as some are making out. We're creating chances, we just need to be better at finishing them off.
Yes, it's on Sandgaard. He should've allowed Garner to bring in a striker, but as long as we're creating chances, goals will come4 -
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?6 -
It’s not Woollacott, it’s Wollacottgolfaddick said:Only one person to blame for last night.
Its not Woollacott
Its not Innis
It not McGrandells
IT'S SANDGAARD
It’s not Innis, it’s Inniss
It’s not McGrandells, it’s McGrandles
It is Sandgaard, however.(OCD speaking).1 -
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not3 -
yeah you are quite right, he did, shows how unfair we are on mistakes, its not allowed for goaliesLeuth said:Also, has nobody here mentioned the absolutely enormous save Wollacott made in the second half? Sure he screwed up for the goal, but my eyes can't have deceived me - he denied them a point-blank tap-in with a full dive, right?0 -
I think you need to think back to the home game against Bolton last year. The same formation was used and as last night, we should have been out of sight by half time. The difference with last night and the Bolton game is that Forest Green were bloody awful and will almost certainly be in the bottom four at seasons end. My point is that Sandgaard is demanding a certain style of football but has weakened the side further by not investing in a forward line, I am sorry but goals will not come and if we reproduce that performance against a top side then they will be out of sight by half time.Gravesend_Addick said:I know last night was a poor result, but there are some overreactions on here today. We're not as bad as some are making out. We're creating chances, we just need to be better at finishing them off.
Yes, it's on Sandgaard. He should've allowed Garner to bring in a striker, but as long as we're creating chances, goals will come1 -
The way I look at it, there wouldn't be half the uproar there is currently about the way we play IF we had scored an extra goal against Cambridge and/or Forest Green. To me, that points towards fans allowing a couple of bad results to overshadow the overall style and direction.NabySarr said:
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not
Of course results are the only thing that matters at the end of a season, but if you changed everything after only one or two bad results, you're never going to end up going anywhere, you just chase your tail and end up going nowhere.
Let Garner keep doing what he's doing, add a bit of quality to the mix, and we will see dramatic improvements in the end results that reflect our current dominance in terms of possession, shots etc.2 - Sponsored links:
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I don't think Stockley is the problem we are making him out to be. The major issue is our delivery and bodies in the box.Bailey said:Interesting that both Adkins and now Garner have left Stockley out of the team, TS has decided how we will play and clearly doesn't understand certain players are more comfortable in certain formations. Its a matter of time before Garner reverts to the JJ formation just to get results on the board.
FGR keeper didn't exactly have his work cut out with the new attacking team0 -
Yes, if we found it that bit easier to score goals we would be in a much healthier position. It is almost as if some fans may think there might be a reason for it!Callumcafc said:
The way I look at it, there wouldn't be half the uproar there is currently about the way we play IF we had scored an extra goal against Cambridge and/or Forest Green. To me, that points towards fans allowing a couple of bad results to overshadow the overall style and direction.NabySarr said:
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not
Of course results are the only thing that matters at the end of a season, but if you changed everything after only one or two bad results, you're never going to end up going anywhere, you just chase your tail and end up going nowhere.
Let Garner keep doing what he's doing, add a bit of quality to the mix, and we will see dramatic improvements in the end results that reflect our current dominance in terms of possession, shots etc.2 -
That works both ways, there would also be calls for Garner to be sacked IF we hadn’t got a bit lucky in picking up points from Derby and Wycombe. It’s 4 poor performances in a row, not just a couple of bad results. In fairness Garner is trying with changing personnel now and formations in-game but I don’t think we can say he’s getting the best out of what he’s got. He’s got better players but his PPG so far is worse than Jackson’s last year. It is a process with which we should improve over time but I was just saying it can’t really be said that he’s getting the best from our squad, there’s been some good signs but we are underperformingCallumcafc said:
The way I look at it, there wouldn't be half the uproar there is currently about the way we play IF we had scored an extra goal against Cambridge and/or Forest Green. To me, that points towards fans allowing a couple of bad results to overshadow the overall style and direction.NabySarr said:
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not
Of course results are the only thing that matters at the end of a season, but if you changed everything after only one or two bad results, you're never going to end up going anywhere, you just chase your tail and end up going nowhere.
Let Garner keep doing what he's doing, add a bit of quality to the mix, and we will see dramatic improvements in the end results that reflect our current dominance in terms of possession, shots etc.1 -
Well you can keep relating all these stats if you want to spin it in Garners favour. The only stats that matter are points and league position. Possession percentages mean not a jot when 85% of it is in your own half.Callumcafc said:
The way I look at it, there wouldn't be half the uproar there is currently about the way we play IF we had scored an extra goal against Cambridge and/or Forest Green. To me, that points towards fans allowing a couple of bad results to overshadow the overall style and direction.NabySarr said:
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not
Of course results are the only thing that matters at the end of a season, but if you changed everything after only one or two bad results, you're never going to end up going anywhere, you just chase your tail and end up going nowhere.
Let Garner keep doing what he's doing, add a bit of quality to the mix, and we will see dramatic improvements in the end results that reflect our current dominance in terms of possession, shots etc.
As a person who has watched us home and away for 44 years, I'll tell you my take and it will be more accurate than your stats. Garner's football with the wrong players will not produce winning football. Jackson was not the answer but if he were here he would have us higher up the table then we are now. He would also have insisted on a striker before buying all these squad fillers.
On another point isn't Clare also suspended for Saturday after his fifth booking? So we go to Barnsley with no experienced full back in the squad.6 -
stole my thunder .. stats don't win matchesbolloxbolder said:
Well you can keep relating all these stats if you want to spin it in Garners favour. The only stats that matter are points and league position. Possession percentages mean not a jot when 85% of it is in your own half.Callumcafc said:
The way I look at it, there wouldn't be half the uproar there is currently about the way we play IF we had scored an extra goal against Cambridge and/or Forest Green. To me, that points towards fans allowing a couple of bad results to overshadow the overall style and direction.NabySarr said:
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not
Of course results are the only thing that matters at the end of a season, but if you changed everything after only one or two bad results, you're never going to end up going anywhere, you just chase your tail and end up going nowhere.
Let Garner keep doing what he's doing, add a bit of quality to the mix, and we will see dramatic improvements in the end results that reflect our current dominance in terms of possession, shots etc.
As a person who has watched us home and away for 44 years, I'll tell you my take and it will be more accurate than your stats. Garner's football with the wrong players will not produce winning football. Jackson was not the answer but if he were here he would have us higher up the table then we are now. He would also have insisted on a striker before buying all these squad fillers.
On another point isn't Clare also suspended for Saturday after his fifth booking? So we go to Barnsley with no experienced full back in the squad.1 -
Clare is on four yellow cards. His other card came in a cup appearance.bolloxbolder said:
Well you can keep relating all these stats if you want to spin it in Garners favour. The only stats that matter are points and league position. Possession percentages mean not a jot when 85% of it is in your own half.Callumcafc said:
The way I look at it, there wouldn't be half the uproar there is currently about the way we play IF we had scored an extra goal against Cambridge and/or Forest Green. To me, that points towards fans allowing a couple of bad results to overshadow the overall style and direction.NabySarr said:
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not
Of course results are the only thing that matters at the end of a season, but if you changed everything after only one or two bad results, you're never going to end up going anywhere, you just chase your tail and end up going nowhere.
Let Garner keep doing what he's doing, add a bit of quality to the mix, and we will see dramatic improvements in the end results that reflect our current dominance in terms of possession, shots etc.
As a person who has watched us home and away for 44 years, I'll tell you my take and it will be more accurate than your stats. Garner's football with the wrong players will not produce winning football. Jackson was not the answer but if he were here he would have us higher up the table then we are now. He would also have insisted on a striker before buying all these squad fillers.
On another point isn't Clare also suspended for Saturday after his fifth booking? So we go to Barnsley with no experienced full back in the squad.
I have agreed with everyone that, at the end of the season, the results over 46 games will speak for themselves.
I stand by what I said originally that there is an overreaction to a couple of disappointing results (draws at home) in a row. Suggesting that Jackson would be doing any better is the clearest evidence yet of that.1 -
Absolutely bang on. Depressing, but absolutely bang on!cabbles said:It’s becoming very evident that TS should probably sell up. I understand his reticence to invest given what he’s put in so far, with fees for Stockley, Kirk, Mansfield, Fraser and Lavelle, but if all he’s given Garner to work with is the budget to bring in a few free transfers from league 2, that don’t look like they’ll be near the top 6 come Jan, then what is the point.You can’t tell me another couple of windows operating on the same budget/format that we’ve just had is going to push on, that’s not factoring in losing our ‘better players’ whoever they are.
This is absolutely looking like the beginning of the end for the TS era. He doesn’t want to invest, fair enough, but we are heading to paralysis and keeping our head above water on reputation alone. All the signs are there. The crowds, the frustration, the squad. The only way out of this mess is a new owner and I don’t want to say that after 2 and a bit years, but it’s just not working, nor will it2 -
They don't win individual matches, that is correct. But they do heavily tilt the odds in your favour.Lincsaddick said:
stole my thunder .. stats don't win matchesbolloxbolder said:
Well you can keep relating all these stats if you want to spin it in Garners favour. The only stats that matter are points and league position. Possession percentages mean not a jot when 85% of it is in your own half.Callumcafc said:
The way I look at it, there wouldn't be half the uproar there is currently about the way we play IF we had scored an extra goal against Cambridge and/or Forest Green. To me, that points towards fans allowing a couple of bad results to overshadow the overall style and direction.NabySarr said:
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not
Of course results are the only thing that matters at the end of a season, but if you changed everything after only one or two bad results, you're never going to end up going anywhere, you just chase your tail and end up going nowhere.
Let Garner keep doing what he's doing, add a bit of quality to the mix, and we will see dramatic improvements in the end results that reflect our current dominance in terms of possession, shots etc.
As a person who has watched us home and away for 44 years, I'll tell you my take and it will be more accurate than your stats. Garner's football with the wrong players will not produce winning football. Jackson was not the answer but if he were here he would have us higher up the table then we are now. He would also have insisted on a striker before buying all these squad fillers.
On another point isn't Clare also suspended for Saturday after his fifth booking? So we go to Barnsley with no experienced full back in the squad.
Keep winning the stats battles and you'll win more games than you lose over a long season.1 -
Four bookings in the League for Clare, one in the Cup, so he should need one more booking to miss a gamebolloxbolder said:
Well you can keep relating all these stats if you want to spin it in Garners favour. The only stats that matter are points and league position. Possession percentages mean not a jot when 85% of it is in your own half.Callumcafc said:
The way I look at it, there wouldn't be half the uproar there is currently about the way we play IF we had scored an extra goal against Cambridge and/or Forest Green. To me, that points towards fans allowing a couple of bad results to overshadow the overall style and direction.NabySarr said:
I’d love to know what is behind those SofaScore and WhoScored metrics but it means very little.Callumcafc said:
He's coached this team to 3rd best possession, 3rd most accurate passes, 2nd most accurate long balls, 6th most shots on target, 8th most successful dribbles. If that's not getting the best out of what he has, I'm not sure what is.thetomahawkkid said:
For me, the jury is still out as to whether or not Garner is a great manager. There are positive signs, but I am just not convinced. I certainly agree that he hasn't been properly supported by TS, and it is clear we are short of a few decent players in our squad. However, the best managers are able to look at what they have and get the best out of it. I am not sure Garner is doing that at the moment.SELR_addicks said:Anyone blaming/criticising Garner for the performances in the last 3 weeks are missing the bigger picture.
He's a great manager and it's clear that his style of play was working, he just needed to be given the resources to take us up the table. That hasn't happened so now he's rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic with mid-table League One players and youth in the hope that we find the next Gomez or Grant.
SofaScore have us rated (out of 10) as the the 4th best team in the league based on performance. WhoScored have us equal 7th best on the same scale.
Short of subbing himself on and putting the ball in the net himself, what more do you expect from Garner at this point?The other metrics are an indicator of the style of play but not proof he is getting the best out of what he has. We are 14th in the league, that is the stat that matters. League tables can be misleading (especially at this stage) but even when looking at xG league tables we are still around where we actually are. In terms of squad strength I would say we have around the 10th best squad in the league, so at the moment I wouldn’t say he is getting the best out of what he has as we are below that.A new style will take time so it’s too early to properly judge and I’m hoping we will improve as the season goes on with players getting used to the style. But at the moment we are underperforming, whether the football is nicer to watch or not
Of course results are the only thing that matters at the end of a season, but if you changed everything after only one or two bad results, you're never going to end up going anywhere, you just chase your tail and end up going nowhere.
Let Garner keep doing what he's doing, add a bit of quality to the mix, and we will see dramatic improvements in the end results that reflect our current dominance in terms of possession, shots etc.
As a person who has watched us home and away for 44 years, I'll tell you my take and it will be more accurate than your stats. Garner's football with the wrong players will not produce winning football. Jackson was not the answer but if he were here he would have us higher up the table then we are now. He would also have insisted on a striker before buying all these squad fillers.
On another point isn't Clare also suspended for Saturday after his fifth booking? So we go to Barnsley with no experienced full back in the squad.
Fleetwood are next, Barnsley is in two weeks, so we could go to Barnsley with no experience full-back
1 -
By the way, where was the supposedly now fit Aneke?2
