Disappointing result for Garner yesterday, only putting 1 past Salford away. Only 6 games unbeaten, gonna be under a lot of pressure
Now primed to overtake AFC Wimbledon if they win their game in hand after starting 10 points behind them.
Colchester had a very poor start to the season, but were improved under Matt Bloomfield and in the January window, so Garner inherited a reasonable team.
It's always easier to take over when the previous manager has been poached, rather than sacked because of terrible results!
Having a torrid time of it. Booed at half time. Getting abuse as he leaves the pitch. Lost 5 nil to forest green. Says the fans need to back off and support the team.
On borrowed time. Overated in my opinion. Playing tippy tappy football at the lower reaches of the league doesnt work if you dont have the right personnel.....opps Ive heard myself say this before.
I didn't have a probem with him but there is one thing he alluded to in an interview which I fundamentally disagree with. That is there is only one way to play football. I think this is nonsense. There are many ways and ultimately it is about getting the best results from what you have got. The move to his style of play required support from the owner, which he didn't get in all honesty.
On borrowed time. Overated in my opinion. Playing tippy tappy football at the lower reaches of the league doesnt work if you dont have the right personnel.....opps Ive heard myself say this before.
Do wonder if he's more suited to youth level type coaching for big clubs that will play that way, rather than being the main man.
On borrowed time. Overated in my opinion. Playing tippy tappy football at the lower reaches of the league doesnt workif you dont have the right personnel.....opps Ive heard myself say this before.
No shit. Hoofball doesn’t work either if you have a team of midgets. But I’ve never seen an old school manager get pelters in the same way the Garners of the world do when things start going wrong.
I’d love to see some evidence based research done on the topic. I’m pretty certain that any drawbacks of playing tippy tappy with lower league players is immediately negated by the opposition also having lower league players who can’t take advantage of mistakes.
Tippy tappy CAN work. Route one CAN work. That’s part of what makes football great. As you hinted, it’s about having the right players combined with the right coaching staff who can effectively integrate their ideas into the team.
There’s no point hiring Garner if you don’t plan on giving him the right tools to do the job. That’s why he failed here and is struggling at Colchester. Similarly, there’s no point hiring Steve Evans if you want possession tippy tappy. Both have been successful at times, and a disaster others.
That’s not Garner’s fault, nor would it be Evans’ fault.
On borrowed time. Overated in my opinion. Playing tippy tappy football at the lower reaches of the league doesnt work if you dont have the right personnel.....opps Ive heard myself say this before.
Do wonder if he's more suited to youth level type coaching for big clubs that will play that way, rather than being the main man.
Suspect he's very good at that.
Think he'd be absolutely fine managing a PL U21s side where the results aren't really the be all and end all and his philosophy would probably be easier to implement. Just don't think it's going to work for him at senior level and quite suspect he won't be at Colchester much longer.
I never liked the way he constantly whined at the officials when with us. Seems he is now whining at his own players. He's a one trick pony who is unable to adjust to simply get the best out of what he has. When a manager starts whining at his players and calling them out by name then he is a goner.
Managers shouldn't expect to come into a club, and to bring in a whole new team ideally suited to their style. They need to be able to coach and mould the existing players.
As others have said, he seems more suited to the "purity" of Premier League academy football where everyone plays that way, than in the hard nosed world of lower division men's football.
I never liked the way he constantly whined at the officials when with us. Seems he is now whining at his own players. He's a one trick pony who is unable to adjust to simply get the best out of what he has. When a manager starts whining at his players and calling them out by name then he is a goner.
This really drove me nuts with him. I like the way he wants to play football, I think it is far closer to the present and future way of things than some of the journeyman lower league managers we see every year. I think that is borne out by the fact that he seems to have a good reputation within the game, and that allegedly got us JRS.
But his excuses felt like Fergie's or Mourinho's of 15 years ago and I don't think you can get away with that unless you're successful, and even then it feels rote and tired.
I do think it's a good point about him being a youth/development coach. He will find far more players equipped to play that way in that kind of a setup. I still wouldn't rule him out as a first team manager, he's still very young and has racked up a decent amount of experience. I said it when he was here that it would take him a while to mold a team to the system in which he wants to play. If you bring in Garner you have to invest in his system and methods and give him time to adopt those to the team. And we gave him Stockley up front and Inniss at CB. And you can't play possession football that way.
I've said it before and I will say it again, this season's team in unfortunately far better set up to the way he wanted to play than last year's.
He's one whose career I'll always be curious about because I do think that style is going to fully trickle down to the lower leagues at some point, it may just be years or decades from now. But when the cast offs and loanees from Prem and Champo sides are all being taught to play that way, at some point lower league managers will have to adapt, and lower league clubs will need to start implementing systems that reflect that style (least of all so they have players to sell to clubs up the pyramid). But I think he's going to continue to bounce around until either he goes back to academy work, or he finds a situation like Karl Robinson did at MK Dons and Oxford where he is given time to build and develop a team around his system.
I never liked the way he constantly whined at the officials when with us. Seems he is now whining at his own players. He's a one trick pony who is unable to adjust to simply get the best out of what he has. When a manager starts whining at his players and calling them out by name then he is a goner.
This really drove me nuts with him. I like the way he wants to play football, I think it is far closer to the present and future way of things than some of the journeyman lower league managers we see every year. I think that is borne out by the fact that he seems to have a good reputation within the game, and that allegedly got us JRS.
But his excuses felt like Fergie's or Mourinho's of 15 years ago and I don't think you can get away with that unless you're successful, and even then it feels rote and tired.
I do think it's a good point about him being a youth/development coach. He will find far more players equipped to play that way in that kind of a setup. I still wouldn't rule him out as a first team manager, he's still very young and has racked up a decent amount of experience. I said it when he was here that it would take him a while to mold a team to the system in which he wants to play. If you bring in Garner you have to invest in his system and methods and give him time to adopt those to the team. And we gave him Stockley up front and Inniss at CB. And you can't play possession football that way.
I've said it before and I will say it again, this season's team in unfortunately far better set up to the way he wanted to play than last year's.
He's one whose career I'll always be curious about because I do think that style is going to fully trickle down to the lower leagues at some point, it may just be years or decades from now. But when the cast offs and loanees from Prem and Champo sides are all being taught to play that way, at some point lower league managers will have to adapt, and lower league clubs will need to start implementing systems that reflect that style (least of all so they have players to sell to clubs up the pyramid). But I think he's going to continue to bounce around until either he goes back to academy work, or he finds a situation like Karl Robinson did at MK Dons and Oxford where he is given time to build and develop a team around his system.
I'm not sure it will trickle down, whilst I agree we will see it at some clubs. The reason for this is you have to have the players to play it and not only that, play it in a way it is difficult to stop. Lower league clubs are not resourced to produce or purchase these players as you need them through the team. Some well resourced team may achieve it and I suppose a smaller team could gradually build to it but it isn't going to be easy and the short term nature of the game suggests we will continue to see easier ways to success being applied at lower levels. I recall Doncaster getting close to this sort of style a few years back but it is hard to sustain when big clubs buy your better players.
Comments
there was I thinking we’d be lucky to hold on to him and he’d be prised away by championship teams
It's always easier to take over when the previous manager has been poached, rather than sacked because of terrible results!
Lost 5 nil to forest green. Says the fans need to back off and support the team.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67115795.amp
Suspect he's very good at that.
I’d love to see some evidence based research done on the topic. I’m pretty certain that any drawbacks of playing tippy tappy with lower league players is immediately negated by the opposition also having lower league players who can’t take advantage of mistakes.
Tippy tappy CAN work. Route one CAN work. That’s part of what makes football great. As you hinted, it’s about having the right players combined with the right coaching staff who can effectively integrate their ideas into the team.
There’s no point hiring Garner if you don’t plan on giving him the right tools to do the job. That’s why he failed here and is struggling at Colchester. Similarly, there’s no point hiring Steve Evans if you want possession tippy tappy. Both have been successful at times, and a disaster others.
Think he'd be absolutely fine managing a PL U21s side where the results aren't really the be all and end all and his philosophy would probably be easier to implement. Just don't think it's going to work for him at senior level and quite suspect he won't be at Colchester much longer.
When a manager starts whining at his players and calling them out by name then he is a goner.
As others have said, he seems more suited to the "purity" of Premier League academy football where everyone plays that way, than in the hard nosed world of lower division men's football.
But his excuses felt like Fergie's or Mourinho's of 15 years ago and I don't think you can get away with that unless you're successful, and even then it feels rote and tired.
I do think it's a good point about him being a youth/development coach. He will find far more players equipped to play that way in that kind of a setup. I still wouldn't rule him out as a first team manager, he's still very young and has racked up a decent amount of experience. I said it when he was here that it would take him a while to mold a team to the system in which he wants to play. If you bring in Garner you have to invest in his system and methods and give him time to adopt those to the team. And we gave him Stockley up front and Inniss at CB. And you can't play possession football that way.
I've said it before and I will say it again, this season's team in unfortunately far better set up to the way he wanted to play than last year's.
He's one whose career I'll always be curious about because I do think that style is going to fully trickle down to the lower leagues at some point, it may just be years or decades from now. But when the cast offs and loanees from Prem and Champo sides are all being taught to play that way, at some point lower league managers will have to adapt, and lower league clubs will need to start implementing systems that reflect that style (least of all so they have players to sell to clubs up the pyramid). But I think he's going to continue to bounce around until either he goes back to academy work, or he finds a situation like Karl Robinson did at MK Dons and Oxford where he is given time to build and develop a team around his system.