Has he progressed in that 18 month period? Because he wasn't good enough to start every game in League 1 when we sold him
Top scorer with 10 goals in 24 starts for Chelsea U21s last season.
Not exactly setting the world alight but he's still only 19 (turns 20 in August). If you ignore the fact he was with us before and we were linked with a Chelsea youth striker i think people would generally be a lot more positive.
Has he progressed in that 18 month period? Because he wasn't good enough to start every game in League 1 when we sold him
Top scorer with 10 goals in 24 starts for Chelsea U21s last season.
Not exactly setting the world alight but he's still only 19 (turns 20 in August). If you ignore the fact he was with us before and we were linked with a Chelsea youth striker i think people would generally be a lot more positive.
We know a lot about this player so I think it's fair to have an assessment of him beyond just being a Chelsea youth striker.
Bit cringe that comment from Holden re; the packed valley and the player ‘already sold’. As much I think Holden is down to earth, and could be a decent manager for us, there’s something about him that gives me the sense he’s worked us out as a fanbase and very good at telling us what we want to hear.
It’s no one thing in particular, the odd comment here and there, the visits to the Oak etc. for me, although he’s come into a shambles of a club, the jury is very much still out and he needs to prove himself before all the love ins etc. you’ve got to remember his career had stalled before us and I don’t think he was in high demand
He has worked us out as a fan base because he is a fan and if he wasn't managing us he would be watching his team. Deep down all fan bases are the same. He is saying what he would want to hear.
Don’t understand the Kirk could come good line. Consistently underperforming and looking completely uninterested. Get rid asap and get someone who can actually take a man on
Has he progressed in that 18 month period? Because he wasn't good enough to start every game in League 1 when we sold him
Top scorer with 10 goals in 24 starts for Chelsea U21s last season.
Not exactly setting the world alight but he's still only 19 (turns 20 in August). If you ignore the fact he was with us before and we were linked with a Chelsea youth striker i think people would generally be a lot more positive.
We know a lot about this player so I think it's fair to have an assessment of him beyond just being a Chelsea youth striker.
Yeah i get that but it's possibly a bit unfair to judge him on his time with us as a very raw 17-18 year old compared to what he might be now, after a year training day in day out with Chelsea.
Kirk is such a weird one, and probably comes down to what formation Holden is going to play as to if I'd be up for keeping him around. No point keeping him in a side that plays 352 because he'd only be able to play as a No10 in that formation. 442 I'd be concerned about his lack of work rate out of possession causing sides to overload whoever is playing left back. It would have to be a 433 with an attacking left back behind him to make the most of him , which I'm not sure that we're going to play next season.
There's a player there but I don't think it's ever going to work for him here and I expect he'll go late in the window to another League 1 side for a cut-price fee.
Kirk is such a weird one, and probably comes down to what formation Holden is going to play as to if I'd be up for keeping him around. No point keeping him in a side that plays 352 because he'd only be able to play as a No10 in that formation. 442 I'd be concerned about his lack of work rate out of possession causing sides to overload whoever is playing left back. It would have to be a 433 with an attacking left back behind him to make the most of him , which I'm not sure that we're going to play next season.
There's a player there but I don't think it's ever going to work for him here and I expect he'll go late in the window to another League 1 side for a cut-price fee.
can't see Holden wanting to keep him, he was a regular starter under Garner, when he took over, Kirk wasn't really getting in the squad, and was the first one he wanted out.
Kirk is such a weird one, and probably comes down to what formation Holden is going to play as to if I'd be up for keeping him around. No point keeping him in a side that plays 352 because he'd only be able to play as a No10 in that formation. 442 I'd be concerned about his lack of work rate out of possession causing sides to overload whoever is playing left back. It would have to be a 433 with an attacking left back behind him to make the most of him , which I'm not sure that we're going to play next season.
There's a player there but I don't think it's ever going to work for him here and I expect he'll go late in the window to another League 1 side for a cut-price fee.
can't see Holden wanting to keep him, he was a regular starter under Garner, when he took over, Kirk wasn't really getting in the squad, and was the first one he wanted out.
Fair enough! Kirk and DJ out and Scott Banks + one other winger in wouldn't be a bad upgrade.
Kirk is such a weird one, and probably comes down to what formation Holden is going to play as to if I'd be up for keeping him around. No point keeping him in a side that plays 352 because he'd only be able to play as a No10 in that formation. 442 I'd be concerned about his lack of work rate out of possession causing sides to overload whoever is playing left back. It would have to be a 433 with an attacking left back behind him to make the most of him , which I'm not sure that we're going to play next season.
There's a player there but I don't think it's ever going to work for him here and I expect he'll go late in the window to another League 1 side for a cut-price fee.
can't see Holden wanting to keep him, he was a regular starter under Garner, when he took over, Kirk wasn't really getting in the squad, and was the first one he wanted out.
Fair enough! Kirk and DJ out and Scott Banks + one other winger in wouldn't be a bad upgrade.
Would we bring in another?
Campbell, Blackett-Taylor, Banks (if he joins) and Payne as the 4th choice would probably be deemed enough (I for one would want an upgrade on Payne)
I think there is clearly some talent with Kirk on the ball, and I like that he seems a passionate guy on the pitch.
What miffs me is why that passion does not translate into work rate. He lacks the brain for the defensive side of the game, so he needs to make up for that with hard work and commitment - but he frustratingly never really shows it.
Kirk is such a weird one, and probably comes down to what formation Holden is going to play as to if I'd be up for keeping him around. No point keeping him in a side that plays 352 because he'd only be able to play as a No10 in that formation. 442 I'd be concerned about his lack of work rate out of possession causing sides to overload whoever is playing left back. It would have to be a 433 with an attacking left back behind him to make the most of him , which I'm not sure that we're going to play next season.
There's a player there but I don't think it's ever going to work for him here and I expect he'll go late in the window to another League 1 side for a cut-price fee.
can't see Holden wanting to keep him, he was a regular starter under Garner, when he took over, Kirk wasn't really getting in the squad, and was the first one he wanted out.
Fair enough! Kirk and DJ out and Scott Banks + one other winger in wouldn't be a bad upgrade.
Would we bring in another?
Campbell, Blackett-Taylor, Banks (if he joins) and Payne as the 4th choice would probably be deemed enough (I for one would want an upgrade on Payne)
I think I'd want a fourth natural winger rather than plugging Payne in there at a push. Then if you lost one of the other 3 long term it wouldn't be a panic.
I almost see Payne more as Fraser's deputy really.
Kirk is such a weird one, and probably comes down to what formation Holden is going to play as to if I'd be up for keeping him around. No point keeping him in a side that plays 352 because he'd only be able to play as a No10 in that formation. 442 I'd be concerned about his lack of work rate out of possession causing sides to overload whoever is playing left back. It would have to be a 433 with an attacking left back behind him to make the most of him , which I'm not sure that we're going to play next season.
There's a player there but I don't think it's ever going to work for him here and I expect he'll go late in the window to another League 1 side for a cut-price fee.
can't see Holden wanting to keep him, he was a regular starter under Garner, when he took over, Kirk wasn't really getting in the squad, and was the first one he wanted out.
Fair enough! Kirk and DJ out and Scott Banks + one other winger in wouldn't be a bad upgrade.
Would we bring in another?
Campbell, Blackett-Taylor, Banks (if he joins) and Payne as the 4th choice would probably be deemed enough (I for one would want an upgrade on Payne)
I think I'd want a fourth natural winger rather than plugging Payne in there at a push. Then if you lost one of the other 3 long term it wouldn't be a panic.
I almost see Payne more as Fraser's deputy really.
I think if Burstow comes back we will see more of him out wide, in the inside forward role
Undeniably Kirk has looked sh*te for us. However, he clearly needs an overlapping, natural left back/full back to play with him. When was the last time we had one of those?
We have this knack of signing players and not playing to their strengths. We haven't seen first hand what Kirk's strengths are, or indeed if he has any, but it feels as though we (as in the club - not us fans) have not even tried to find out.
I won't hold my breath but if he wants to stay, Holden is happy for him to stay, and we sign a natural overlapping full back to play with him, who knows?
Kirk’s “strength” is cutting in on his right foot. He is weak on going past a player and crossing with his left which makes him easy to mark. An overlapping full back makes cutting in easier as you tend to have more space and time.
Compare that to Campbell and Blacket-Taylor who have the pace to go past and cross or cut in. Add an overlapping back to one those two in a match and you begin to look really dangerous.
I think the “wanting to stay” is agent speak for help out with his wages.
Let’s face the facts. We will be getting in loan players and a couple I would think are likely to be PL kids. It strikes me that signing Mason Burstow on loan is decent business. He’s done pretty well at Chelsea and he’s a youngster that won’t feel out of place and will need time to settle in at The Valley. Won’t get homesick and already have friends. He’ll probably feel he wants to impress and “show off” his progress. Does he have talent enough to help us out ? I’d say he does. Makes sense to me if there is any truth to it.
Comments
Not exactly setting the world alight but he's still only 19 (turns 20 in August). If you ignore the fact he was with us before and we were linked with a Chelsea youth striker i think people would generally be a lot more positive.
There's a player there but I don't think it's ever going to work for him here and I expect he'll go late in the window to another League 1 side for a cut-price fee.
Fair enough! Kirk and DJ out and Scott Banks + one other winger in wouldn't be a bad upgrade.
Campbell, Blackett-Taylor, Banks (if he joins) and Payne as the 4th choice would probably be deemed enough (I for one would want an upgrade on Payne)
What miffs me is why that passion does not translate into work rate. He lacks the brain for the defensive side of the game, so he needs to make up for that with hard work and commitment - but he frustratingly never really shows it.
He needs to move on for the sake of everybody.
I think I'd want a fourth natural winger rather than plugging Payne in there at a push. Then if you lost one of the other 3 long term it wouldn't be a panic.
I almost see Payne more as Fraser's deputy really.
Compare that to Campbell and Blacket-Taylor who have the pace to go past and cross or cut in. Add an overlapping back to one those two in a match and you begin to look really dangerous.
I never believe A Crook !