There have been discussions but very notional "if we, WASPS, got into a league that warranted a big ground would you, Charlton, consider it?"
A long shot, unlikely in the short term. Long term if it helped secure our future it could be good but less likely.
Q: How important is going for Cat 1 status?
CM That's the best question of the night"
They are currently 26 Cat 1 academies and the EPL want fewer and are putting pressure on some EG Reading, to drop their Cat 1 status.
Charlton's academy is an outlier. Always 8th to 10th in the productivity rankings despite being Cat 2 so above 16 to 18 Cat 1 and above all the Cat 2 academies.
It has an impact on retaining young players. Compensation for a 15 year old goes from about £300k to £600k and that makes a difference to whether they poach the player or not.
They don't want more Cat 1 clubs. Would we benefit? Yes. Would we be admitted currently? No.
In the Championship the pressure on the EPL would he high to admit us. We aspire to Cat 1 and we want to embarrass them by getting in the top five in the rankings.
We're doubling down on our academy, investing more in it and projects like Mount Pleasant.
Q: Has the news of the Cardiff job had an impact on Jones and the players?
CM: NJ is honest and transparent, very hard working, never seen anything like it. Hasn't impacted on the players.
-------------
There was more, stuff I missed or have forgotten but that was what I felt were the key points in summary. We spoke about the Ex-Players Association and how that was about reconnecting with what we were as a club. They want to see other fans groups like Bromley Addicks (I'd say like but not as good but I don't want to be accused or tribalism) in other parts of Kent, CM mentioned Dartford and Folkstone as two areas. Dartford population wise as big as many towns with league clubs.
Both GC and CM enjoyed it and GC said to me that they got a lot out of it and felt it was good that the questions we're about strategic stuff and that obviously the people asking them knew their stuff.
As Afka has said, CM's body language doesn't hide when he thinks a question is badly worded or rambling and he seemed happy talking about the football industry in general where perhaps he can be less guarded than when focused on purely Charlton matters.
He was very positive and admitted to this being a long term project etc when IMHO I think he and his team have made errors and while I agree that things can't be expected to change overnight it has been 15 months.
I wonder how the mood might have been different, especially around recruitment and player sales if we'd had the meeting this week so after the Birmingham win.
Thanks to everyone who came along, about 85 of you.
Next meeting is 5 December with Dean Kiely and Steve Brown.
Thanks for this Henry. And putting the event together for your members.
So do you think the club is in good hands and big improvement on our last few owners?
There have been discussions but very notional "if we, WASPS, got into a league that warranted a big ground would you, Charlton, consider it?"
A long shot, unlikely in the short term. Long term if it helped secure our future it could be good but less likely.
Q: How important is going for Cat 1 status?
CM That's the best question of the night"
They are currently 26 Cat 1 academies and the EPL want fewer and are putting pressure on some EG Reading, to drop their Cat 1 status.
Charlton's academy is an outlier. Always 8th to 10th in the productivity rankings despite being Cat 2 so above 16 to 18 Cat 1 and above all the Cat 2 academies.
It has an impact on retaining young players. Compensation for a 15 year old goes from about £300k to £600k and that makes a difference to whether they poach the player or not.
They don't want more Cat 1 clubs. Would we benefit? Yes. Would we be admitted currently? No.
In the Championship the pressure on the EPL would he high to admit us. We aspire to Cat 1 and we want to embarrass them by getting in the top five in the rankings.
We're doubling down on our academy, investing more in it and projects like Mount Pleasant.
Q: Has the news of the Cardiff job had an impact on Jones and the players?
CM: NJ is honest and transparent, very hard working, never seen anything like it. Hasn't impacted on the players.
-------------
There was more, stuff I missed or have forgotten but that was what I felt were the key points in summary. We spoke about the Ex-Players Association and how that was about reconnecting with what we were as a club. They want to see other fans groups like Bromley Addicks (I'd say like but not as good but I don't want to be accused or tribalism) in other parts of Kent, CM mentioned Dartford and Folkstone as two areas. Dartford population wise as big as many towns with league clubs.
Both GC and CM enjoyed it and GC said to me that they got a lot out of it and felt it was good that the questions we're about strategic stuff and that obviously the people asking them knew their stuff.
As Afka has said, CM's body language doesn't hide when he thinks a question is badly worded or rambling and he seemed happy talking about the football industry in general where perhaps he can be less guarded than when focused on purely Charlton matters.
He was very positive and admitted to this being a long term project etc when IMHO I think he and his team have made errors and while I agree that things can't be expected to change overnight it has been 15 months.
I wonder how the mood might have been different, especially around recruitment and player sales if we'd had the meeting this week so after the Birmingham win.
Thanks to everyone who came along, about 85 of you.
Next meeting is 5 December with Dean Kiely and Steve Brown.
Thanks for this Henry. And putting the event together for your members.
So do you think the club is in good hands and big improvement on our last few owners?
To be fair, I could round up half a dozen people from my local who would be an improvement on the last few owners, and I drink in a predominantly Millwall pub.
There have been discussions but very notional "if we, WASPS, got into a league that warranted a big ground would you, Charlton, consider it?"
A long shot, unlikely in the short term. Long term if it helped secure our future it could be good but less likely.
Q: How important is going for Cat 1 status?
CM That's the best question of the night"
They are currently 26 Cat 1 academies and the EPL want fewer and are putting pressure on some EG Reading, to drop their Cat 1 status.
Charlton's academy is an outlier. Always 8th to 10th in the productivity rankings despite being Cat 2 so above 16 to 18 Cat 1 and above all the Cat 2 academies.
It has an impact on retaining young players. Compensation for a 15 year old goes from about £300k to £600k and that makes a difference to whether they poach the player or not.
They don't want more Cat 1 clubs. Would we benefit? Yes. Would we be admitted currently? No.
In the Championship the pressure on the EPL would he high to admit us. We aspire to Cat 1 and we want to embarrass them by getting in the top five in the rankings.
We're doubling down on our academy, investing more in it and projects like Mount Pleasant.
Q: Has the news of the Cardiff job had an impact on Jones and the players?
CM: NJ is honest and transparent, very hard working, never seen anything like it. Hasn't impacted on the players.
-------------
There was more, stuff I missed or have forgotten but that was what I felt were the key points in summary. We spoke about the Ex-Players Association and how that was about reconnecting with what we were as a club. They want to see other fans groups like Bromley Addicks (I'd say like but not as good but I don't want to be accused or tribalism) in other parts of Kent, CM mentioned Dartford and Folkstone as two areas. Dartford population wise as big as many towns with league clubs.
Both GC and CM enjoyed it and GC said to me that they got a lot out of it and felt it was good that the questions we're about strategic stuff and that obviously the people asking them knew their stuff.
As Afka has said, CM's body language doesn't hide when he thinks a question is badly worded or rambling and he seemed happy talking about the football industry in general where perhaps he can be less guarded than when focused on purely Charlton matters.
He was very positive and admitted to this being a long term project etc when IMHO I think he and his team have made errors and while I agree that things can't be expected to change overnight it has been 15 months.
I wonder how the mood might have been different, especially around recruitment and player sales if we'd had the meeting this week so after the Birmingham win.
Thanks to everyone who came along, about 85 of you.
Next meeting is 5 December with Dean Kiely and Steve Brown.
Thanks for this Henry. And putting the event together for your members.
So do you think the club is in good hands and big improvement on our last few owners?
Thanks but very much not just me who puts the meetings together.
Other people chair them, book the hall, send out the newsletters and keep the accounts.
These groups really need at least a five a side team to last 30 years as we have. I'm just the guest booker and social media guy.
A big improvement on our recent owners is a very low bar but yes better than any since the Murray era.
Carter is impressive as were Friedman and Rosenfeld when I met them.
None of them appear to be spivs, money launderers, chancers, crooks, bent lawyers or out of their depth egotists.
Also pleased to hear that one director had a very recent lunch with Peter Varney
Still to be convinced the UK executive directors are going to deliver everything they talk about but I've had good conversations with Methven, Rodwell and Warwick (Scott I only saw at a previous BA meeting) and they come over well and all have football experience.
But while I can see that changes are being made we're 15 months in and we've made little headway on the pitch in terms of the men's team.
That might be my natural scepticism married with nearly two decades of Addicks decline but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and it's not even out of the oven yet.
Where do these academy ratings come from , on what basis is it worked out . Would Lookman be considered part of our successful academy ? I mean whatever and how amazing the academy is our first team have been utter dog poo for years , surely as a club we should have been doing better on the field first team wise with an academy that’s apparently so successful in the rankings
There have been discussions but very notional "if we, WASPS, got into a league that warranted a big ground would you, Charlton, consider it?"
A long shot, unlikely in the short term. Long term if it helped secure our future it could be good but less likely.
Q: How important is going for Cat 1 status?
CM That's the best question of the night"
They are currently 26 Cat 1 academies and the EPL want fewer and are putting pressure on some EG Reading, to drop their Cat 1 status.
Charlton's academy is an outlier. Always 8th to 10th in the productivity rankings despite being Cat 2 so above 16 to 18 Cat 1 and above all the Cat 2 academies.
It has an impact on retaining young players. Compensation for a 15 year old goes from about £300k to £600k and that makes a difference to whether they poach the player or not.
They don't want more Cat 1 clubs. Would we benefit? Yes. Would we be admitted currently? No.
In the Championship the pressure on the EPL would he high to admit us. We aspire to Cat 1 and we want to embarrass them by getting in the top five in the rankings.
We're doubling down on our academy, investing more in it and projects like Mount Pleasant.
Q: Has the news of the Cardiff job had an impact on Jones and the players?
CM: NJ is honest and transparent, very hard working, never seen anything like it. Hasn't impacted on the players.
-------------
There was more, stuff I missed or have forgotten but that was what I felt were the key points in summary. We spoke about the Ex-Players Association and how that was about reconnecting with what we were as a club. They want to see other fans groups like Bromley Addicks (I'd say like but not as good but I don't want to be accused or tribalism) in other parts of Kent, CM mentioned Dartford and Folkstone as two areas. Dartford population wise as big as many towns with league clubs.
Both GC and CM enjoyed it and GC said to me that they got a lot out of it and felt it was good that the questions we're about strategic stuff and that obviously the people asking them knew their stuff.
As Afka has said, CM's body language doesn't hide when he thinks a question is badly worded or rambling and he seemed happy talking about the football industry in general where perhaps he can be less guarded than when focused on purely Charlton matters.
He was very positive and admitted to this being a long term project etc when IMHO I think he and his team have made errors and while I agree that things can't be expected to change overnight it has been 15 months.
I wonder how the mood might have been different, especially around recruitment and player sales if we'd had the meeting this week so after the Birmingham win.
Thanks to everyone who came along, about 85 of you.
Next meeting is 5 December with Dean Kiely and Steve Brown.
Thanks for this Henry. And putting the event together for your members.
So do you think the club is in good hands and big improvement on our last few owners?
Thanks but very much not just me who puts the meetings together.
Other people chair them, book the hall, send out the newsletters and keep the accounts.
These groups really need at least a five a side team to last 30 years as we have. I'm just the guest booker and social media guy.
A big improvement on our recent owners is a very low bar but yes better than any since the Murray era.
Carter is impressive as were Friedman and Rosenfeld when I met them.
None of them appear to be spivs, money launderers, chancers, crooks, bent lawyers or out of their depth egotists.
Also pleased to hear that one director had a very recent lunch with Peter Varney
Still to be convinced the UK executive directors are going to deliver everything they talk about but I've had good conversations with Methven, Rodwell and Warwick (Scott I only saw at a previous BA meeting) and they come over well and all have football experience.
But while I can see that changes are being made we're 15 months in and we've made little headway on the pitch in terms of the men's team.
That might be my natural scepticism married with nearly two decades of Addicks decline but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and it's not even out of the oven yet.
I think that is a very fair response, and I think the club are are in good hands at the moment.. Not everything will go to plan or work out straight away, but they have a plan, and a group that want to be successful and build from the bottom down. If we can get out of this league, then I think we will be in for a couple of very exciting years.
There have been discussions but very notional "if we, WASPS, got into a league that warranted a big ground would you, Charlton, consider it?"
A long shot, unlikely in the short term. Long term if it helped secure our future it could be good but less likely.
Q: How important is going for Cat 1 status?
CM That's the best question of the night"
They are currently 26 Cat 1 academies and the EPL want fewer and are putting pressure on some EG Reading, to drop their Cat 1 status.
Charlton's academy is an outlier. Always 8th to 10th in the productivity rankings despite being Cat 2 so above 16 to 18 Cat 1 and above all the Cat 2 academies.
It has an impact on retaining young players. Compensation for a 15 year old goes from about £300k to £600k and that makes a difference to whether they poach the player or not.
They don't want more Cat 1 clubs. Would we benefit? Yes. Would we be admitted currently? No.
In the Championship the pressure on the EPL would he high to admit us. We aspire to Cat 1 and we want to embarrass them by getting in the top five in the rankings.
We're doubling down on our academy, investing more in it and projects like Mount Pleasant.
Q: Has the news of the Cardiff job had an impact on Jones and the players?
CM: NJ is honest and transparent, very hard working, never seen anything like it. Hasn't impacted on the players.
-------------
There was more, stuff I missed or have forgotten but that was what I felt were the key points in summary. We spoke about the Ex-Players Association and how that was about reconnecting with what we were as a club. They want to see other fans groups like Bromley Addicks (I'd say like but not as good but I don't want to be accused or tribalism) in other parts of Kent, CM mentioned Dartford and Folkstone as two areas. Dartford population wise as big as many towns with league clubs.
Both GC and CM enjoyed it and GC said to me that they got a lot out of it and felt it was good that the questions we're about strategic stuff and that obviously the people asking them knew their stuff.
As Afka has said, CM's body language doesn't hide when he thinks a question is badly worded or rambling and he seemed happy talking about the football industry in general where perhaps he can be less guarded than when focused on purely Charlton matters.
He was very positive and admitted to this being a long term project etc when IMHO I think he and his team have made errors and while I agree that things can't be expected to change overnight it has been 15 months.
I wonder how the mood might have been different, especially around recruitment and player sales if we'd had the meeting this week so after the Birmingham win.
Thanks to everyone who came along, about 85 of you.
Next meeting is 5 December with Dean Kiely and Steve Brown.
Thanks for this Henry. And putting the event together for your members.
So do you think the club is in good hands and big improvement on our last few owners?
Thanks but very much not just me who puts the meetings together.
Other people chair them, book the hall, send out the newsletters and keep the accounts.
These groups really need at least a five a side team to last 30 years as we have. I'm just the guest booker and social media guy.
A big improvement on our recent owners is a very low bar but yes better than any since the Murray era.
Carter is impressive as were Friedman and Rosenfeld when I met them.
None of them appear to be spivs, money launderers, chancers, crooks, bent lawyers or out of their depth egotists.
Also pleased to hear that one director had a very recent lunch with Peter Varney
Still to be convinced the UK executive directors are going to deliver everything they talk about but I've had good conversations with Methven, Rodwell and Warwick (Scott I only saw at a previous BA meeting) and they come over well and all have football experience.
But while I can see that changes are being made we're 15 months in and we've made little headway on the pitch in terms of the men's team.
That might be my natural scepticism married with nearly two decades of Addicks decline but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and it's not even out of the oven yet.
I think that is a very fair response, and I think the club are are in good hands at the moment.. Not everything will go to plan or work out straight away, but they have a plan, and a group that want to be successful and build from the bottom down. If we can get out of this league, then I think we will be in for a couple of very exciting years.
Everything will be easier, off the pitch, if we go up.
Attendances, retail, commercial, recruitment, central funding, sponsorship, Cat 1 academy.
But we need to go up first and we need to stay up cos the opposition will be much tougher.
Where do these academy ratings come from , on what basis is it worked out . Would Lookman be considered part of our successful academy ? I mean whatever and how amazing the academy is our first team have been utter dog poo for years , surely as a club we should have been doing better on the field first team wise with an academy that’s apparently so successful in the rankings
Not sure if this is the one they use but it includes players who were with the club up to the age of 18, and playing at a higher level is also worth more points. So Lookman would count as he joined our u18s and progressed to the first team.
Where do these academy ratings come from , on what basis is it worked out . Would Lookman be considered part of our successful academy ? I mean whatever and how amazing the academy is our first team have been utter dog poo for years , surely as a club we should have been doing better on the field first team wise with an academy that’s apparently so successful in the rankings
He didn't say where the ratings came from or how they were determined. If we'd had 4 hours instead of 2.5 we may have been able to dig further.
There have been discussions but very notional "if we, WASPS, got into a league that warranted a big ground would you, Charlton, consider it?"
A long shot, unlikely in the short term. Long term if it helped secure our future it could be good but less likely.
Q: How important is going for Cat 1 status?
CM That's the best question of the night"
They are currently 26 Cat 1 academies and the EPL want fewer and are putting pressure on some EG Reading, to drop their Cat 1 status.
Charlton's academy is an outlier. Always 8th to 10th in the productivity rankings despite being Cat 2 so above 16 to 18 Cat 1 and above all the Cat 2 academies.
It has an impact on retaining young players. Compensation for a 15 year old goes from about £300k to £600k and that makes a difference to whether they poach the player or not.
They don't want more Cat 1 clubs. Would we benefit? Yes. Would we be admitted currently? No.
In the Championship the pressure on the EPL would he high to admit us. We aspire to Cat 1 and we want to embarrass them by getting in the top five in the rankings.
We're doubling down on our academy, investing more in it and projects like Mount Pleasant.
Q: Has the news of the Cardiff job had an impact on Jones and the players?
CM: NJ is honest and transparent, very hard working, never seen anything like it. Hasn't impacted on the players.
-------------
There was more, stuff I missed or have forgotten but that was what I felt were the key points in summary. We spoke about the Ex-Players Association and how that was about reconnecting with what we were as a club. They want to see other fans groups like Bromley Addicks (I'd say like but not as good but I don't want to be accused or tribalism) in other parts of Kent, CM mentioned Dartford and Folkstone as two areas. Dartford population wise as big as many towns with league clubs.
Both GC and CM enjoyed it and GC said to me that they got a lot out of it and felt it was good that the questions we're about strategic stuff and that obviously the people asking them knew their stuff.
As Afka has said, CM's body language doesn't hide when he thinks a question is badly worded or rambling and he seemed happy talking about the football industry in general where perhaps he can be less guarded than when focused on purely Charlton matters.
He was very positive and admitted to this being a long term project etc when IMHO I think he and his team have made errors and while I agree that things can't be expected to change overnight it has been 15 months.
I wonder how the mood might have been different, especially around recruitment and player sales if we'd had the meeting this week so after the Birmingham win.
Thanks to everyone who came along, about 85 of you.
Next meeting is 5 December with Dean Kiely and Steve Brown.
Thanks for this Henry. And putting the event together for your members.
So do you think the club is in good hands and big improvement on our last few owners?
Thanks but very much not just me who puts the meetings together.
Other people chair them, book the hall, send out the newsletters and keep the accounts.
These groups really need at least a five a side team to last 30 years as we have. I'm just the guest booker and social media guy.
A big improvement on our recent owners is a very low bar but yes better than any since the Murray era.
Carter is impressive as were Friedman and Rosenfeld when I met them.
None of them appear to be spivs, money launderers, chancers, crooks, bent lawyers or out of their depth egotists.
Also pleased to hear that one director had a very recent lunch with Peter Varney
Still to be convinced the UK executive directors are going to deliver everything they talk about but I've had good conversations with Methven, Rodwell and Warwick (Scott I only saw at a previous BA meeting) and they come over well and all have football experience.
But while I can see that changes are being made we're 15 months in and we've made little headway on the pitch in terms of the men's team.
That might be my natural scepticism married with nearly two decades of Addicks decline but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and it's not even out of the oven yet.
I think that is a very fair response, and I think the club are are in good hands at the moment.. Not everything will go to plan or work out straight away, but they have a plan, and a group that want to be successful and build from the bottom down. If we can get out of this league, then I think we will be in for a couple of very exciting years.
Everything will be easier, off the pitch, if we go up.
Attendances, retail, commercial, recruitment, central funding, sponsorship, Cat 1 academy.
But we need to go up first and we need to stay up cos the opposition will be much tougher.
Of course, but also I think they will put more cash in, and thing such as buying the stadium would become closer.
As you said, only 15 months in, and they are looking long term.. I would rather this model rather than treated like a toy, and then be in a lot of trouble once they get bored.
There have been discussions but very notional "if we, WASPS, got into a league that warranted a big ground would you, Charlton, consider it?"
A long shot, unlikely in the short term. Long term if it helped secure our future it could be good but less likely.
Q: How important is going for Cat 1 status?
CM That's the best question of the night"
They are currently 26 Cat 1 academies and the EPL want fewer and are putting pressure on some EG Reading, to drop their Cat 1 status.
Charlton's academy is an outlier. Always 8th to 10th in the productivity rankings despite being Cat 2 so above 16 to 18 Cat 1 and above all the Cat 2 academies.
It has an impact on retaining young players. Compensation for a 15 year old goes from about £300k to £600k and that makes a difference to whether they poach the player or not.
They don't want more Cat 1 clubs. Would we benefit? Yes. Would we be admitted currently? No.
In the Championship the pressure on the EPL would he high to admit us. We aspire to Cat 1 and we want to embarrass them by getting in the top five in the rankings.
We're doubling down on our academy, investing more in it and projects like Mount Pleasant.
Q: Has the news of the Cardiff job had an impact on Jones and the players?
CM: NJ is honest and transparent, very hard working, never seen anything like it. Hasn't impacted on the players.
-------------
There was more, stuff I missed or have forgotten but that was what I felt were the key points in summary. We spoke about the Ex-Players Association and how that was about reconnecting with what we were as a club. They want to see other fans groups like Bromley Addicks (I'd say like but not as good but I don't want to be accused or tribalism) in other parts of Kent, CM mentioned Dartford and Folkstone as two areas. Dartford population wise as big as many towns with league clubs.
Both GC and CM enjoyed it and GC said to me that they got a lot out of it and felt it was good that the questions we're about strategic stuff and that obviously the people asking them knew their stuff.
As Afka has said, CM's body language doesn't hide when he thinks a question is badly worded or rambling and he seemed happy talking about the football industry in general where perhaps he can be less guarded than when focused on purely Charlton matters.
He was very positive and admitted to this being a long term project etc when IMHO I think he and his team have made errors and while I agree that things can't be expected to change overnight it has been 15 months.
I wonder how the mood might have been different, especially around recruitment and player sales if we'd had the meeting this week so after the Birmingham win.
Thanks to everyone who came along, about 85 of you.
Next meeting is 5 December with Dean Kiely and Steve Brown.
Thanks for this Henry. And putting the event together for your members.
So do you think the club is in good hands and big improvement on our last few owners?
Thanks but very much not just me who puts the meetings together.
Other people chair them, book the hall, send out the newsletters and keep the accounts.
These groups really need at least a five a side team to last 30 years as we have. I'm just the guest booker and social media guy.
A big improvement on our recent owners is a very low bar but yes better than any since the Murray era.
Carter is impressive as were Friedman and Rosenfeld when I met them.
None of them appear to be spivs, money launderers, chancers, crooks, bent lawyers or out of their depth egotists.
Also pleased to hear that one director had a very recent lunch with Peter Varney
Still to be convinced the UK executive directors are going to deliver everything they talk about but I've had good conversations with Methven, Rodwell and Warwick (Scott I only saw at a previous BA meeting) and they come over well and all have football experience.
But while I can see that changes are being made we're 15 months in and we've made little headway on the pitch in terms of the men's team.
That might be my natural scepticism married with nearly two decades of Addicks decline but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and it's not even out of the oven yet.
Thanks for such a comprehensive write up @Henry Irving, very generous and collaborative spirit on display there 😉. If you could pin things on here as you can on Twitter profiles, I'd suggest it should be this comment from CM:
"The EFL provide us with all the other teams budgets in October so we'll know for sure than but based on previous figures we're 4th in first team budget and 5th in wages."
"SCMP (what was called financial fair play) limits spending on the first team to 60% of revenues.
Currently this can be added to by injected cash as equity but that is going to be capped at £500k (presumably a season)"
Kieran Maguire when talking about Birmingham said this was the main way in which Birmingham could get away with what they did, but does the second remark mean the EFL have already introduced a new rule to stop that happening again?
Thanks for such a comprehensive write up @Henry Irving, very generous and collaborative spirit on display there 😉. If you could pin things on here as you can on Twitter profiles, I'd suggest it should be this comment from CM:
"The EFL provide us with all the other teams budgets in October so we'll know for sure than but based on previous figures we're 4th in first team budget and 5th in wages."
Still curious what the definition of ‘budget’ is in this context.
Their forecast for the coming season on some key metrics or actual /management accounts for last season or something else?
"SCMP (what was called financial fair play) limits spending on the first team to 60% of revenues.
Currently this can be added to by injected cash as equity but that is going to be capped at £500k (presumably a season)"
Kieran Maguire when talking about Birmingham said this was the main way in which Birmingham could get away with what they did, but does the second remark mean the EFL have already introduced a new rule to stop that happening again?
Nothing official but I’ve seen a few people say that what Birmingham have done has meant that the EFL are looking at changing the rules and CM has been a bit loose lipped as he often tends to be.
"SCMP (what was called financial fair play) limits spending on the first team to 60% of revenues.
Currently this can be added to by injected cash as equity but that is going to be capped at £500k (presumably a season)"
Kieran Maguire when talking about Birmingham said this was the main way in which Birmingham could get away with what they did, but does the second remark mean the EFL have already introduced a new rule to stop that happening again?
The inference I took was that the changes had already been agreed but not yet implemented but either I or Charlie could be wrong
Spoke to a kit supplier who made it to the final 3 shortlist, who were hugely complimentary about those in charge at the club even without winning the deal.
They think it’s going to someone who 1) can front up a load of cash, 2) will be brand who will make bespoke kits and not catalogue team wear
I’m not surprised CM wishes to retreat from his remark about reducing the operating loss to £1m-£2m and offsetting that with player trading, but I don’t believe him. Why would the interviewer make it up?
it’s also hard to see how you could take out £2m of non-football cost when much of it is fixed (like the rent) and you’ve added the purchase of retail stock and overheads. You could only cut that much by removing people and the club seems to have added them at management level. Most of the non-playing staff cost is football staff. But the numbers will come out in time.
Average losses in this division don’t tell you anything much because of the disparity in size of clubs. Stevenage and Crawley bear no relation to Bolton and Charlton, never mind Birmingham.
Thanks @Henry Irving. Appreciate you providing the updated notes and everything you do. Very interesting stuff about ownership of the Valley. KRs, Rich
I’m not surprised CM wishes to retreat from his remark about reducing the operating loss to £1m-£2m and offsetting that with player trading, but I don’t believe him. Why would the interviewer make it up?
it’s also hard to see how you could take out £2m of non-football cost when much of it is fixed (like the rent) and you’ve added the purchase of retail stock and overheads. You could only cut that much by removing people and the club seems to have added them at management level. Most of the non-playing staff cost is football staff. But the numbers will come out in time.
Average losses in this division don’t tell you anything much because of the disparity in size of clubs. Stevenage and Crawley bear no relation to Bolton and Charlton, never mind Birmingham.
The be like Brighton and Brentford comparison was, in part, in reference to them being net sellers eg getting more in sales than they spend on transfers, so not sure that idea has gone away.
Thanks @Henry Irving. Appreciate you providing the updated notes and everything you do. Very interesting stuff about ownership of the Valley. KRs, Rich
Thanks but as I said not just me.
There's no 'I' in Bromley Addicks, apart from the 4th letter of the 2nd word
Thanks @Henry Irving. Appreciate you providing the updated notes and everything you do. Very interesting stuff about ownership of the Valley. KRs, Rich
Thanks but as I said not just me.
There's no 'I' in Bromley Addicks, apart from the 4th letter of the 2nd word
Thanks @Henry Irving. Appreciate you providing the updated notes and everything you do. Very interesting stuff about ownership of the Valley. KRs, Rich
Thanks but as I said not just me.
There's no 'I' in Bromley Addicks, apart from the 4th letter of the 2nd word
Thanks for such a comprehensive write up @Henry Irving, very generous and collaborative spirit on display there 😉. If you could pin things on here as you can on Twitter profiles, I'd suggest it should be this comment from CM:
"The EFL provide us with all the other teams budgets in October so we'll know for sure than but based on previous figures we're 4th in first team budget and 5th in wages."
Still curious what the definition of ‘budget’ is in this context.
Their forecast for the coming season on some key metrics or actual /management accounts for last season or something else?
Also not sure why it’s shared or how it is used.
Interesting regardless.
I know something about this. I've mentioned this before so apologies to others who've read it before!
A few years back when I was on the Trust board I went to interview Erik Samuelson, the AFCW fan who was a finance bod and then CEO. He told me about it. The EFL clubs had agreed to share it, but only by division. He explained that it was very useful to set his own player wage budget. It helped them set a budget that would be 4th lowest in the division (then L1) and gave the manager a big incentive to finish 5th bottom. He turned his laptop screen towards me for a nano-second, just eneough for me to see it existed.
But that was I think 8 years ago, and I couldn't remember more details of how it was done, and now CM has filled in the gaps. It is basically the operating budget they submit, and it sounds like their cost-line descriptions are agreed for consistency. The clubs are anonymised but CEO's can guess. Especially this year for club no.1.
Now obviously clubs have to set their budgets for the coming season before this comes out so they use the previous season's data, making their own guesses about the changes based on who was promoted/relegated, and any other info such as new splashy ownership (or new distress, e.g.Reading).
I’m not surprised CM wishes to retreat from his remark about reducing the operating loss to £1m-£2m and offsetting that with player trading, but I don’t believe him. Why would the interviewer make it up?
it’s also hard to see how you could take out £2m of non-football cost when much of it is fixed (like the rent) and you’ve added the purchase of retail stock and overheads. You could only cut that much by removing people and the club seems to have added them at management level. Most of the non-playing staff cost is football staff. But the numbers will come out in time.
Average losses in this division don’t tell you anything much because of the disparity in size of clubs. Stevenage and Crawley bear no relation to Bolton and Charlton, never mind Birmingham.
The be like Brighton and Brentford comparison was, in part, in reference to them being net sellers eg getting more in sales than they spend on transfers, so not sure that idea has gone away.
Perfectly normal to look to make a profit on player trading; whole other issue to think you can offset the operating loss year on year with it.
Comments
So do you think the club is in good hands and big improvement on our last few owners?
Other people chair them, book the hall, send out the newsletters and keep the accounts.
These groups really need at least a five a side team to last 30 years as we have. I'm just the guest booker and social media guy.
A big improvement on our recent owners is a very low bar but yes better than any since the Murray era.
Carter is impressive as were Friedman and Rosenfeld when I met them.
None of them appear to be spivs, money launderers, chancers, crooks, bent lawyers or out of their depth egotists.
Also pleased to hear that one director had a very recent lunch with Peter Varney
Still to be convinced the UK executive directors are going to deliver everything they talk about but I've had good conversations with Methven, Rodwell and Warwick (Scott I only saw at a previous BA meeting) and they come over well and all have football experience.
But while I can see that changes are being made we're 15 months in and we've made little headway on the pitch in terms of the men's team.
That might be my natural scepticism married with nearly two decades of Addicks decline but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and it's not even out of the oven yet.
Would Lookman be considered part of our successful academy ?
I mean whatever and how amazing the academy is our first team have been utter dog poo for years , surely as a club we should have been doing better on the field first team wise with an academy that’s apparently so successful in the rankings
Attendances, retail, commercial, recruitment, central funding, sponsorship, Cat 1 academy.
But we need to go up first and we need to stay up cos the opposition will be much tougher.
Appreciate you writing it all up
https://trainingground.guru/articles/2021/22-academy-productivity-rankings-chelsea-top-for-first-time
If we'd had 4 hours instead of 2.5 we may have been able to dig further.
As you said, only 15 months in, and they are looking long term.. I would rather this model rather than treated like a toy, and then be in a lot of trouble once they get bored.
If the owners have come into it with their eyes open and know they will have to spend and spend again then great, if not we have a problem
If you could pin things on here as you can on Twitter profiles, I'd suggest it should be this comment from CM:
"The EFL provide us with all the other teams budgets in October so we'll know for sure than but based on previous figures we're 4th in first team budget and 5th in wages."
"SCMP (what was called financial fair play) limits spending on the first team to 60% of revenues.
Currently this can be added to by injected cash as equity but that is going to be capped at £500k (presumably a season)"
Kieran Maguire when talking about Birmingham said this was the main way in which Birmingham could get away with what they did, but does the second remark mean the EFL have already introduced a new rule to stop that happening again?
Also not sure why it’s shared or how it is used.
it’s also hard to see how you could take out £2m of non-football cost when much of it is fixed (like the rent) and you’ve added the purchase of retail stock and overheads. You could only cut that much by removing people and the club seems to have added them at management level. Most of the non-playing staff cost is football staff. But the numbers will come out in time.
Another legacy of Tony Keohane's "do as little as possible" mismanagement style.
There's no 'I' in Bromley Addicks, apart from the 4th letter of the 2nd word
Yes, but it begins with 'B'. ;-)
A few years back when I was on the Trust board I went to interview Erik Samuelson, the AFCW fan who was a finance bod and then CEO. He told me about it. The EFL clubs had agreed to share it, but only by division. He explained that it was very useful to set his own player wage budget. It helped them set a budget that would be 4th lowest in the division (then L1) and gave the manager a big incentive to finish 5th bottom. He turned his laptop screen towards me for a nano-second, just eneough for me to see it existed.
But that was I think 8 years ago, and I couldn't remember more details of how it was done, and now CM has filled in the gaps. It is basically the operating budget they submit, and it sounds like their cost-line descriptions are agreed for consistency. The clubs are anonymised but CEO's can guess. Especially this year for club no.1.
Now obviously clubs have to set their budgets for the coming season before this comes out so they use the previous season's data, making their own guesses about the changes based on who was promoted/relegated, and any other info such as new splashy ownership (or new distress, e.g.Reading).
I think it's an excellent idea myself.