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Charlton join foreign legion as Belgian millionaire agrees takeover deal (maybe?)

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  • sadiejane1981
    sadiejane1981 Posts: 9,012
    BigAndyCAFC said:

    shirty5 said:

    oohaahmortimer said:

    did the staff get their wages today ?

    I'm sure we would have been told by now if the answer was no
    Why would we be told if wages weren't paid? Just asking...
    Because on this board there are club workers and friends/family of club workers so disgruntled workers are likely to complain.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    BigAndyCAFC said:

    shirty5 said:

    oohaahmortimer said:

    did the staff get their wages today ?

    I'm sure we would have been told by now if the answer was no
    Why would we be told if wages weren't paid? Just asking...
    http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/58114/have-you-been-paid-today/p1
  • BigAndyCAFC
    BigAndyCAFC Posts: 485
    sadiejane1981 said:

    BigAndyCAFC said:

    shirty5 said:

    oohaahmortimer said:

    did the staff get their wages today ?

    I'm sure we would have been told by now if the answer was no
    Why would we be told if wages weren't paid? Just asking...
    Because on this board there are club workers and friends/family of club workers so disgruntled workers are likely to complain.
    Fair enough, I can see the link now from the club to the forum - thanks
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,220
    AdamAddick said:

    Apparently a fee had been agreed to sell club but not the training ground as RM wants at least his money back hense why i post like bbc link from 4 years ago

    Find that hard to believe. RBS have a mortgage on the Valley and Training ground for the money lent to build the North Stand. Currently at £4m. It would all be part of the one price for the club as the Club owns the training ground and Valley and the Bank have a charge on it.

  • AdamAddick
    AdamAddick Posts: 953
    Henry Irving said:

    AdamAddick said:

    Apparently a fee had been agreed to sell club but not the training ground as RM wants at least his money back hense why i post like bbc link from 4 years ago

    Find that hard to believe. RBS have a mortgage on the Valley and Training ground for the money lent to build the North Stand. Currently at £4m. It would all be part of the one price for the club as the Club owns the training ground and Valley and the Bank have a charge on it.

    But the club doesnt own it, RM does? Would that make a difference?
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,977
    Uboat said:

    ValleyGary said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    East_Stand_Loopy said:

    BIG_ROB said:

    I can't believe that all is on the os after 4 days is just that poxy one paragraph on the "take over". Even if they just updated it to "talks are on going" or something. It shows a distinct lack of respect to the fans IMO

    Maybe Roland doesn't want anymore conjecture during negotiations? What's more important? A takeover or the fans being informed?

    This is a BUSINESS transaction after all, and all sorts of negotiations could be going on in the background.

    Everybody should take a chill pill, and let the people involved get on with their jobs, and make sure that what comes out of it is right for ALL parties.
    This would be the same people that have done their jobs so well over the last three years that we are currently a football club essentially without a football pitch fit to be called a football pitch.
    or that have done enough over the last three years to ensure not only that we still have a football club, but that we aren't still playing the likes of Shrewsbury and Stevenage, have a legend as manager and still have our best players.

    I trust them to get the right result.
    Oh, so you're a fan of the current owners. Why didn't you mention it before.
    Sorry forgot this was an anti-board forum.
  • stilladdicted
    stilladdicted Posts: 4,307
    I blame Airman Brown ACV Richard Murray. We're running out of people to blame for failed takeovers. At this rate it won't be long before someone blames the current owners.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,220
    AdamAddick said:

    Henry Irving said:

    AdamAddick said:

    Apparently a fee had been agreed to sell club but not the training ground as RM wants at least his money back hense why i post like bbc link from 4 years ago

    Find that hard to believe. RBS have a mortgage on the Valley and Training ground for the money lent to build the North Stand. Currently at £4m. It would all be part of the one price for the club as the Club owns the training ground and Valley and the Bank have a charge on it.

    But the club doesnt own it, RM does? Would that make a difference?
    Don't think so. Valley and Sparrows Lane belong to the Club.
  • nth_london_addick
    nth_london_addick Posts: 35,919

    ValleyGary said:

    Uboat said:

    ValleyGary said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    East_Stand_Loopy said:

    BIG_ROB said:

    I can't believe that all is on the os after 4 days is just that poxy one paragraph on the "take over". Even if they just updated it to "talks are on going" or something. It shows a distinct lack of respect to the fans IMO

    Maybe Roland doesn't want anymore conjecture during negotiations? What's more important? A takeover or the fans being informed?

    This is a BUSINESS transaction after all, and all sorts of negotiations could be going on in the background.

    Everybody should take a chill pill, and let the people involved get on with their jobs, and make sure that what comes out of it is right for ALL parties.
    This would be the same people that have done their jobs so well over the last three years that we are currently a football club essentially without a football pitch fit to be called a football pitch.
    or that have done enough over the last three years to ensure not only that we still have a football club, but that we aren't still playing the likes of Shrewsbury and Stevenage, have a legend as manager and still have our best players.

    I trust them to get the right result.
    Oh, so you're a fan of the current owners. Why didn't you mention it before.
    Sorry forgot this was an anti-board forum.



    its taken a while but atleast you get it now pal 8)

  • stilladdicted
    stilladdicted Posts: 4,307
    So who owns the training ground?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm
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  • Mortimerician
    Mortimerician Posts: 5,222
    Airman Brown said:

    I think it's fairly clear the Josh Harris takeover was expected to go through at the end of November. I'm confident that was the background to the incident with the wages. As such I'd expect the playing side and therefore Prothero, who has told us in the programme it's his job to keep lists, to have target signings for January, subject to budget and his holiday arrangements.

    Thanks Airman, interesting.
  • ValleyMick
    ValleyMick Posts: 473
    It's frustrating waiting to see whether a takeover will happen, particularly given what may unfold if it doesn't. However if you look at the sale as a commercial transaction, what's been happening is a predictable result of the owners not selling or perhaps not being able to sell sooner.

    Our owners' negotiating position is getting weaker by the month. Any buyer will know this and will use the DD process to drive the price down by identifying negatives that they will claim weren't factored into their baseline offer. The only leverage the owners have got to shore up the price is by trying to get get other potential buyers involved to create a bit of competition. Or at least the appearance of it.

    Personally, although I'm a ST holder I've lost interest in the whole takeover saga. If we sell we sell. If we don't, we don't. At least we'll know in the next couple of weeks whether any takeover will be completed to enable the squad to be freshened up.
  • AdamAddick
    AdamAddick Posts: 953
    Thats the link i posted earlier, very confusing
  • nth_london_addick
    nth_london_addick Posts: 35,919
    ValleyMick said:

    It's frustrating waiting to see whether a takeover will happen, particularly given what may unfold if it doesn't. However if you look at the sale as a commercial transaction, what's been happening is a predictable result of the owners not selling or perhaps not being able to sell sooner.

    Our owners' negotiating position is getting weaker by the month. Any buyer will know this and will use the DD process to drive the price down by identifying negatives that they will claim weren't factored into their baseline offer. The only leverage the owners have got to shore up the price is by trying to get get other potential buyers involved to create a bit of competition. Or at least the appearance of it.

    Personally, although I'm a ST holder I've lost interest in the whole takeover saga. If we sell we sell. If we don't, we don't. At least we'll know in the next couple of weeks whether any takeover will be completed to enable the squad to be freshened up.


    this but also if we don't then I hope that the squad have more guts for a fight than many on here who seem to bottle it when the going gets tough by demanding more but offering little back in support

  • East_Stand_Loopy
    East_Stand_Loopy Posts: 2,205
    BIG_ROB said:

    East_Stand_Loopy said:

    BIG_ROB said:

    I don't understand all this cloak and dagger stuff, okay in normal business this might be the case, but with a football club I'd say it's essential to be as transparent as possible. After all 99% of their business comes from the fans. I ain't talking about every little detail or even names at this point, but just basic one liners.
    As for flapping, this could make or break Charlton Athletic, so yes I am a little bit eager for a glint of infirmation meself

    The problem is, Rob, as supporters, of course we are all crying out for information.

    But, as has been pointed out, neither the present owners, or ANY potential new owners, are NOT supporters. So, to them, all it is is a business transaction.

    In which case, they're probably treating like they were negotiating the selling of the local corner shop, and keeping their cards very close to their respective chests.
    Funny you should say that, cause I had a corner shop up Grove Park once upon a time. And therefore, I once took part in the sale of one, gotta say it was pretty cut throat too, geezer knocked me for a few grand right on completion, so I'd say, seller beware!
    Nice to see a bit of levity on this thread, rather than all the wrist slitting!
  • Mckforester
    Mckforester Posts: 850
    The problem is not necessarily the purchaser. For the sale to go through there has to be a majority in favour and if Jiminez and Slater (Cash) are at loggerheads there is every chance our Belgian suitor is going to get p***ed-off!
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,220
    stilladdicted said:

    So who owns the training ground?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm


    That's 2009. IIRC that sale didn't go through but in any case we've had two changes of ownership since then. Baton 2010 and the current T/O in 2011
  • bingaddick
    bingaddick Posts: 8,181
    It a game of poker. Cash wants to get some or all of his investment back. There may be guaranteed returns for Cash which cannot be met at current offer levels so he may have to take a haircut. Others have a more benign stake but need to ensure they are protected in any sale. The buyers will be trying to get it as cheaply as possible. Twas ever thus.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    AdamAddick said:

    Henry Irving said:

    AdamAddick said:

    Apparently a fee had been agreed to sell club but not the training ground as RM wants at least his money back hense why i post like bbc link from 4 years ago

    Find that hard to believe. RBS have a mortgage on the Valley and Training ground for the money lent to build the North Stand. Currently at £4m. It would all be part of the one price for the club as the Club owns the training ground and Valley and the Bank have a charge on it.

    But the club doesnt own it, RM does? Would that make a difference?
    If RM or one of his companies owns the training ground then the RBS will be reliant on third party security (could either be a direct charge over the land or the land is charged in support of RM's personal guarantee) behind the North Stand loan to the 'football club'. Therefore RM will need to be involved in any discussions with RBS regarding a restructuring of the loan unless of course the loan is repaid by the new owners, when 'RMs' security would be released. He could then either sell or lease the training ground to the new owners.
  • Red_Pete_in_Dubai
    Red_Pete_in_Dubai Posts: 2,764
    stilladdicted said:

    So who owns the training ground?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm

    Although those sales were formally approved by shareholders at a General Meeting, to my recollection none of the transactions ever actually happened. Therefore the training ground is still owned by the club.
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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    Cash has clearly decided he wants out of the venture so I doubt he would want to drag it out. TJ clearly wants some kind of return, even if it is less than he might have planned for. From what we know of the financing it is all a bit messy - with loans to this person or that payable on promotion - this person owns this and that person owns that! I would expect all of that to fill a potential buyer with caution. And lots of potential for misunderstandings which threaten deals.

    I would have expected a message from the club by now though if the deal was really dead or at least the removal of the takeover message from 3 days ago, which is still on the official site.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,220
    Red_Pete in Dubai said:

    stilladdicted said:

    So who owns the training ground?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm

    Although those sales were formally approved by shareholders at a General Meeting, to my recollection none of the transactions ever actually happened. Therefore the training ground is still owned by the club.
    Correct.

    The Club owns the Valley and the training ground not Richard Murray.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    Henry Irving said:

    Red_Pete in Dubai said:

    stilladdicted said:

    So who owns the training ground?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm

    Although those sales were formally approved by shareholders at a General Meeting, to my recollection none of the transactions ever actually happened. Therefore the training ground is still owned by the club.
    Correct.

    The Club owns the Valley and the training ground not Richard Murray.
    In that case that's one less complication for AdamAddick to worry about.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    If what has been reported by Angeldust is correct, it is a small hitch that has turned into a deal breaker. So something would have come out that wasn't immediately clear and presumuably it has a significant cost implication. If there are no other interested parties, you wouldn't dismiss this as a ploy to get the price down as if you are serious enough to get to this point, you must want to buy the club. Maybe it is now in TJs hands to lower the price to save the deal.
  • bingaddick
    bingaddick Posts: 8,181
    Henry Irving said:

    Red_Pete in Dubai said:

    stilladdicted said:

    So who owns the training ground?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm

    Although those sales were formally approved by shareholders at a General Meeting, to my recollection none of the transactions ever actually happened. Therefore the training ground is still owned by the club.
    Correct.

    The Club owns the Valley and the training ground not Richard Murray.
    Thanks guys I thought I remembered this but hey I'm 55 this year and my memory isn't so hot :-)
  • charltonaddickedmatt
    charltonaddickedmatt Posts: 1,257
    I wouldn't say its dead and done yet.

    Nothing on the OS, or Twitter, Neither can i read anywhere else that this deal is dead ..

    Just wait.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,734
    Red_Pete in Dubai said:

    stilladdicted said:

    So who owns the training ground?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm

    Although those sales were formally approved by shareholders at a General Meeting, to my recollection none of the transactions ever actually happened. Therefore the training ground is still owned by the club.
    This is what the due diligence document said about the training ground: "The Group also holds eight freeholds and one leasehold property in relation to the training ground. These are carried at £5.8m in the [2012] accounts."

    It is reported elsewhere that the TG is valued on the basis of its current use. I assume that the TG is owned by Charlton Athletic Holdings Limited (like the stadium). What is odd to me is that while CAFC Ltd pays a nominal rent (or rather owes it) for The Valley, it does not appear to do so for the training ground.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,220
    https://twitter.com/CAFCTakeover
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    edited December 2013
    Airman, are you able to do any digging on the current staus of the takeover? Without compromising anybody of course - we have only heard from one source that the deal is dead and nothing official. There is a subtle difference say between negotiating a stumbling block and the deal being dead.

    It also makes you feel for employees of the club - with all this uncertainty in the air.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    edited December 2013
    Airman Brown said:

    Red_Pete in Dubai said:

    stilladdicted said:

    So who owns the training ground?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm

    Although those sales were formally approved by shareholders at a General Meeting, to my recollection none of the transactions ever actually happened. Therefore the training ground is still owned by the club.
    This is what the due diligence document said about the training ground: "The Group also holds eight freeholds and one leasehold property in relation to the training ground. These are carried at £5.8m in the [2012] accounts."

    It is reported elsewhere that the TG is valued on the basis of its current use. I assume that the TG is owned by Charlton Athletic Holdings Limited (like the stadium). What is odd to me is that while CAFC Ltd pays a nominal rent (or rather owes it) for The Valley, it does not appear to do so for the training ground.
    But would it if it was only a peppercorn rent?

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