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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Went and voted about 20 mins ago. The guy said only about 100 people had been in so far.
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,493
    Though Raffan defected from the Tories to the Libs more than 25 years ago so perhaps not quite as big a deal.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    No great shock, he was always on the left side,

    He left the Tories 26 years ago and had been a Lib Dem for 16 years (although not an MP anymore),

    In 2004 he had an 'expenses issues' and resigned and left the Lib Dems due to ill health apparently. Some reports say he then joined the Labour Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Raffan
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    seth plum said:

    Went and voted about 20 mins ago. The guy said only about 100 people had been in so far.

    Do you know the electorate numbers in your ward @seth plum, getting towards midday and about 100 seems very low! Although maybe if commuter belt etc people go after work (that's what I usually do). That said I reckon it'll be a low turn out in my area, normally is for locals.
  • Greenie
    Greenie Posts: 9,172
    Nice to see that most Tory MPs voted against further info being made public about the Windrush Scandal, including new Home Secretary Sajid Javid, who on Monday pledged to urgently “do right” by the windrush generation and last night voted with the DUP to suppress the documents evidencing how the scandal occurred, just another in a line of utter shits. But hey give them your cross.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43982092
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,256
    Greenie said:

    Nice to see that most Tory MPs voted against further info being made public about the Windrush Scandal, including new Home Secretary Sajid Javid, who on Monday pledged to urgently “do right” by the windrush generation and last night voted with the DUP to suppress the documents evidencing how the scandal occurred, just another in a line of utter shits. But hey give them your cross.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43982092

    This is exactly where they go wrong. Peddle some shit to the cameras about being sorry, someone falls on their sword and hope that they can sweep it under the carpet. If they’re truly sorry and want to address it, let’s get it all out in the open.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    cabbles said:

    Greenie said:

    Nice to see that most Tory MPs voted against further info being made public about the Windrush Scandal, including new Home Secretary Sajid Javid, who on Monday pledged to urgently “do right” by the windrush generation and last night voted with the DUP to suppress the documents evidencing how the scandal occurred, just another in a line of utter shits. But hey give them your cross.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43982092

    This is exactly where they go wrong. Peddle some shit to the cameras about being sorry, someone falls on their sword and hope that they can sweep it under the carpet. If they’re truly sorry and want to address it, let’s get it all out in the open.
    No great surprise really, self preservation/protection of Auntie T. They do themselves no favours.

    One bit I don't understand - it seems over 30% of Labour MP's didn't vote? Surely 30% didn't agree with the Tories?
    Greenie said:

    Nice to see that most Tory MPs voted against further info being made public about the Windrush Scandal, including new Home Secretary Sajid Javid, who on Monday pledged to urgently “do right” by the windrush generation and last night voted with the DUP to suppress the documents evidencing how the scandal occurred, just another in a line of utter shits. But hey give them your cross.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43982092

    Better than that @Greenie you get 3 crosses!
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Just nipped back to UK, stuck a photo of a cat on me passport and voted Tory on behalf of @iainment

    ; )
  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    Rob7Lee said:

    seth plum said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    The list put forward by @seth plum (I think) I thought was an odd list, very odd.

    Gated communities? Private Security!?! WTF? Goods delivered and using Uber.......?

    None of those sound aspirational to me, or if they are your aspirations i'd say you were a little odd.

    Being able to send their children to private school is an aspiration i guess but hardly solely tories, dare I mention the lovely Diane Abbot!?! Last time I looked she didn't aspire to any Tory ideologies....... think she leans slightly more to the left but not 100% sure on that. You can add Shami Chakrabarti to that also, even Corbyn sent his son to a grammar school (appreciate that's not private but is also seen maybe as a Tory 'thing' not a labour 'thing').

    If you asked me what I'd like the tories or any governing party to do compared to now the list would be quiet long, I sometimes think we forget about all the good things that go on in our country with all the 'broken Britain' rhetoric, but some things, a lot of things, need sorting for sure (and not necessarily always involving money).

    Some of the serious issues of housing and poverty aren't so difficult to sort, things like the NHS are a little more complex due to it's sheer size and repeating myself, complexity.

    What are Tory ideologies?

    Haven’t got a scooby, I suspect if you ask 10 Tories they’ll all have a different answer. But my mate google’s first stab is:

    Economic liberalism & British unionism

    Wiki: a political philosophy (Toryism) based on a British version of traditionalism and conservatism, which upholds the supremacy of social order as it has evolved throughout history. The Tory ethos has been summed up with the phrase "God, King, and Country"

    Whenever i hear about Toryism, i also mutter "God, f'king hell and cunts".
  • charente addick
    charente addick Posts: 3,808
    Greenie said:

    Nice to see that most Tory MPs voted against further info being made public about the Windrush Scandal, including new Home Secretary Sajid Javid, who on Monday pledged to urgently “do right” by the windrush generation and last night voted with the DUP to suppress the documents evidencing how the scandal occurred, just another in a line of utter shits. But hey give them your cross.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43982092

    Why did 78 Labour MPs not vote for this motion?
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  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,026
    Rob7Lee said:

    seth plum said:

    Went and voted about 20 mins ago. The guy said only about 100 people had been in so far.

    Do you know the electorate numbers in your ward @seth plum, getting towards midday and about 100 seems very low! Although maybe if commuter belt etc people go after work (that's what I usually do). That said I reckon it'll be a low turn out in my area, normally is for locals.
    198 as of 7pm. Nobody cares.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Most will vote on their way home probably. You have to start out before the polling stations open with South Eastern Railways!
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,850
    Conservatives won't do amazingly, but will do better than people expected.
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    Huskaris said:

    Conservatives won't do amazingly, but will do better than people expected.

    My guess as well. They expected a tonking, especially in London.
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,850
    McBobbin said:

    Huskaris said:

    Conservatives won't do amazingly, but will do better than people expected.

    My guess as well. They expected a tonking, especially in London.
    Yeah, a few very key areas will be interesting, so many different "scandals" that will impact different wards. *I come in peace so calm down some of you* I think a lot of people will view Corbyn as having run out of steam (we already know that May has) I just think Corbyn has missed a huge amount of open goals lately (again, as always I have to caveat for those here, May has also been shit) but Corbyn hasn't outperformed May lately.
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    Huskaris said:

    McBobbin said:

    Huskaris said:

    Conservatives won't do amazingly, but will do better than people expected.

    My guess as well. They expected a tonking, especially in London.
    Yeah, a few very key areas will be interesting, so many different "scandals" that will impact different wards. *I come in peace so calm down some of you* I think a lot of people will view Corbyn as having run out of steam (we already know that May has) I just think Corbyn has missed a huge amount of open goals lately (again, as always I have to caveat for those here, May has also been shit) but Corbyn hasn't outperformed May lately.
    True. May has been shite from the start, but Corbyn has taken the open goals like Ronny Rosenthal. His surprise factor hasn't been in play since the general election. There will be a correction towards labour you always get between elections, but it won't signal a surge towards labour victory
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,850
    McBobbin said:

    Huskaris said:

    McBobbin said:

    Huskaris said:

    Conservatives won't do amazingly, but will do better than people expected.

    My guess as well. They expected a tonking, especially in London.
    Yeah, a few very key areas will be interesting, so many different "scandals" that will impact different wards. *I come in peace so calm down some of you* I think a lot of people will view Corbyn as having run out of steam (we already know that May has) I just think Corbyn has missed a huge amount of open goals lately (again, as always I have to caveat for those here, May has also been shit) but Corbyn hasn't outperformed May lately.
    True. May has been shite from the start, but Corbyn has taken the open goals like Ronny Rosenthal. His surprise factor hasn't been in play since the general election. There will be a correction towards labour you always get between elections, but it won't signal a surge towards labour victory
    Again, I agree, since the general election Corbyn hasn't had any big "victories." Again, this isn't my view, this is how I reckon the public with view it, not many people will care about Windrush, the anti Semitic issue might stick a tad more, and in a larger community. May played a blinder with the Salisbury issue, and Corbyn was hit for 6 (again, just how I think the public with view it).

    Plus, nearly 2 hours after the polls close, it sounds like the UKIP vote has (predictably) collapsed. I'm guessing the way that goes might be a big deal. Probably Conservative but who knows.
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    The way to smash local elections is to get the bin collections and weather on your side
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,850
    The UKIP party died and it's spirit rose and was born again in the Conservative party. I think they will gain a lot from this, even some people that may have voted Labour previously, as Conservatives are formally the party of Brexit, rather than being led by someone who wants Brexit but is surrounded by people that don't. Almost as weird as being a remainer in a party surrounded by leavers...
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,850
    Like I said, I can see the conservatives doing a lot better than everyone expected.
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  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,595
    Huskaris said:

    McBobbin said:

    Huskaris said:

    Conservatives won't do amazingly, but will do better than people expected.

    My guess as well. They expected a tonking, especially in London.
    Yeah, a few very key areas will be interesting, so many different "scandals" that will impact different wards. *I come in peace so calm down some of you* I think a lot of people will view Corbyn as having run out of steam (we already know that May has) I just think Corbyn has missed a huge amount of open goals lately (again, as always I have to caveat for those here, May has also been shit) but Corbyn hasn't outperformed May lately.
    Agree with all that.

    Most seats were last fought in 2014, since then we've had brexit vote, two general elections and the Corbyn and May show.

    If Labour don't make big strides I can see him coming under pressure.
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    edited May 2018
    Everyone will try to claim victory though
  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,806
    I definitely won.
  • Anna_Kissed
    Anna_Kissed Posts: 3,302
    edited May 2018
    Let's not kid ourselves that we desire change.

    Let's vote for more of the SAME.

    Business as USUAL.

    Airborne pollution.
    Job insecurity.
    Depression, anxiety, stress.
    Citizen V citizen.
    'As seen' on 'social' media.

    Pills. Potions. Prescriptions.

    Fear not! DO THE SAME NEXT TIME.

    #Conform
  • Riviera
    Riviera Posts: 8,167
    Huskaris said:

    Like I said, I can see the conservatives doing a lot better than everyone expected.

    Huskaris said:

    Like I said, I can see the conservatives doing a lot better than everyone expected.

    Looks like you're right.

    You can always tell who has done well as the losers always say something like "Well it's early days yet and there are a lot of results to come in yet blah blah...." This is tonight's guilty talking head:
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,766
    Great night for UKIP.
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,448
    Disillusioned with politics if I'm honest.

    No one can say the government is doing a good job and yet the opposition is so bad that people are willing to stick with a broken government because they fear the other side more.
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,448
    edited May 2018
    However, anyone that votes in the local council elections and use Brexit as a reason to vote for a party should lose their vote.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Results reflect my own views: this government is absolutely shocking and the opposition is only slightly more shocking.
  • charente addick
    charente addick Posts: 3,808
    Crying out for a new centrist party.

    Perhaps the U.K. can sign Macron during the summer transfer window.
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