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Is the season going to finish? (ed. Pg.53 - 3 players not returned to training)
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I was referring to all four professional divisions. The issues would be Coventry, but they may have the facilities and a pitch at their training ground, and very small clubs with little space to house the required numbers. I would think most Championship and League 1 clubs have the facilities.ElfsborgAddick said:
What about the other 3 divisions?MuttleyCAFC said:
I did say in my plan that cleaners and cooks and coach drivers would be needed, then you have squad players not playing. More than enough people. look it is a thinking aloud idea, and I realise it is problematic but whilst unlikely to happen, it could work safely in principle.killerandflash said:
Support staff at matches will be at a minimum. No ball boys for a start, as you can hardly isolate children away from their families for a month. When we've played FA Cup matches at The Valley it's been tedious enough waiting for the ball to be retrieved from the empty East Stand, and that's just one sectionMuttleyCAFC said:
Are you suggesting games have not been played behind closed doors before? You would use the support staff as ball retrievers, along with an element of multi-ball.killerandflash said:Will they change the rules to allow "multiball" as the perfect way for struggling sides to slow the game down will be to hoof it into the empty stands!0 -
And he's right, it should be.SELR_addicks said:Luton Chief Executive has come out and said the league should be cancelled.
That's 23rd place in the Championship Luton.7 -
Completely agree... Its why the most interesting opinions will be from those with little to gainkillerandflash said:
If this had happened a year ago, with us in the playoffs and the form team, and things fairly stable off the field, I wonder what the reaction here would have been to voiding the season...ForeverAddickted said:
But how does he feel the League should be resolved if it does get cancelled?SELR_addicks said:Luton Chief Executive has come out and said the league should be cancelled.
That's 23rd place in the Championship Luton.
All I'm seeing is clubs saying it should be cancelled if they're in trouble (e.g. Charlton | Luton | Accrington) or that it should be resumed the moment it can be (Leeds | Liverpool | Peterborough), hell Darragh McAnthony was even saying the other day on twitter that the Sunderland owner agreed with him - In that instance I thought it was all well and good but your getting the agreement of another club who could potentially profit from the League resuming rather than being declared null and void
The clubs I'd be most interested in hearing from are those who pretty much know that Mid-table is the best they can hope for this season
Effectively those that dont care either way as they know they'll be in said League regardless next season
Unfortunately dont think there are too many clubs in that equasion at the moment, clubs either have a foot in the Play-Off / Promotion race or are nervous about relegation
Or going back, if this had happened in 2000 when we on the verge on winning the Championship?
Have to admit I was impressed with both Klopp and Guardiola when this happened with both saying it was more important to get COVID under control1 -
What I would say is that if you don't finish it, you have to cancel it. You can't relegate teams part way through the season. I am thinking about the finances around this and whether there is a way. As has been said, you can't restart the season with any risk of players etc... contracting the virus so you either look for a way to play and avoid it, however ridiculous it may sound or cancel it.
If you cancel it, how do you compensate clubs for lost revenues? Do season ticket holders get refunds? Does SKY and BT get a refund? These are important questions because the future of the game, or at least some clubs, rests on the answers.0 -
I’m sure they’re desperate to get Premier League football back on TV, but even if all players and backroom staff were quarantined, you’d still have tv production staff to consider. There would be about eight cameramen and a few soundmen in the stadium, as well as producers and commentators and pundits etc.MuttleyCAFC said:
I agree, so the only way you could really do it would be to shut the players and officials off for the duration needed. If you did something that didn't involve that, you would start, then potentially stop again at great cost and confusion. But why my plan probably wouldn't work is players may not sign up to it. Even if it was a small number it would be a massive issue. Mind you, I don't know what players may be thinking, If I was a lower league player, I might think it was in my interest to stop clubs going bankrupt.JamesSeed said:
👍se9addick said:
They get treatment and put additional pressure on the health care system I suppose.JamesSeed said:
That’s my point. So imagine they restart the Premier League season behind closed doors. What happens when a player develops C-19 symptoms?se9addick said:
They can’t play a professional football match and stay within the government guidelines.JamesSeed said:
So how can players SAFELY play behind closed doors?se9addick said:
I actually think it will, there’s been more and more talk of it in recent days and I believe we’ll see some progress on the plans this coming week. God knows how they’ll do it though, seems mad they are even thinking about it.JamesSeed said:I now think that this season won’t finish, and next season won’t start, and may also be abandoned.Playing behind doors won’t happen either. They’d have to test all the players all the time, and if one was infected, they’d be back to square one. It’d be a farce.Do you think I’m arguing that football should be re-started? That’s not what I’m saying at all if so.
The big issue that doesn’t get mentioned is that what will happen if a player tests positive is that anyone who came into contact with him will have to self isolate, meaning much of his own squad and backroom staff, and any team that he has played against.
So effectively the season ends right there.It wouldn’t just be a case of players not signing up to it, it’s just not practical.Mind you, it’s in the papers, so maybe I’m wrong :-)0 -
You could televise it with fewer. It may not have the production values of a sky match but one camera is used for most I-follow games. Commentators don't have to be in the stadium.1
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Just seen FIFA or UEFA or someone has proposed a five-sub rule.
It's just clutching at straws.
I would much rather they spend their time ensuring no clubs go under during not just the next couple months, but the next year-to-year and a half while football and all life is disrupted.3 -
This has been the basis of lots of previous posts. If there are three games a week and a player tests positive, not only will the players club self isolate, but the players of the maximum of 3 other clubs that he has faced, plus the clubs that those teams have played.JamesSeed said:
👍se9addick said:
They get treatment and put additional pressure on the health care system I suppose.JamesSeed said:
That’s my point. So imagine they restart the Premier League season behind closed doors. What happens when a player develops C-19 symptoms?se9addick said:
They can’t play a professional football match and stay within the government guidelines.JamesSeed said:
So how can players SAFELY play behind closed doors?se9addick said:
I actually think it will, there’s been more and more talk of it in recent days and I believe we’ll see some progress on the plans this coming week. God knows how they’ll do it though, seems mad they are even thinking about it.JamesSeed said:I now think that this season won’t finish, and next season won’t start, and may also be abandoned.Playing behind doors won’t happen either. They’d have to test all the players all the time, and if one was infected, they’d be back to square one. It’d be a farce.Do you think I’m arguing that football should be re-started? That’s not what I’m saying at all if so.
The big issue that doesn’t get mentioned is that what will happen if a player tests positive is that anyone who came into contact with him will have to self isolate, meaning much of his own squad and backroom staff, and any team that he has played against.
So effectively the season ends right there.On the basis that a player tests positive on a Saturday night and all teams play Saturday, mid week, Saturday. That’s 10 teams in isolation.I can’t see how it can finish.2 -
Why not just restart it once it’s safe to do so without the (frankly unworkable) solution that you’ve had to come up with? If that takes another year then so be it. If that means players contracts expire and they move elsewhere, so be it. Players move during the season anyway so it’s not the outrageous proposition that some seem to think.MuttleyCAFC said:What I would say is that if you don't finish it, you have to cancel it. You can't relegate teams part way through the season. I am thinking about the finances around this and whether there is a way. As has been said, you can't restart the season with any risk of players etc... contracting the virus so you either look for a way to play and avoid it, however ridiculous it may sound or cancel it.
If you cancel it, how do you compensate clubs for lost revenues? Do season ticket holders get refunds? Does SKY and BT get a refund? These are important questions because the future of the game, or at least some clubs, rests on the answers.Seems far more sensible than trying to conjure up a solution which, even in the most ambitious scenario, creates risk and pressure on our health services and key workers. The Premier League even publicly considering it undermines the stay at home and socially distance narrative our leaders are promoting.3 -
MuttleyCAFC said:You could televise it with fewer. It may not have the production values of a sky match but one camera is used for most I-follow games. Commentators don't have to be in the stadium.
Albert, ready to do his duty for the good of the game. God love him.
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I think the contract issue is the natural end of the season. I think once you get to the situation that Lyle Taylor could score the winner against us for Hull, you have lost the legitimacy of the season. You have to complete it by the end of June or give up on it IMO.
I think the situation I have come up with can be criticised justly on certain grounds, but it would be designed around zero chance of covid infection. Of course a player getting injured and needing hospital treatment could potentially put some risk on our health services although a small one. The presenational aspect of that may be more problematic than the actual.
You could argue that more football on the TV will help keep people in. It isn't just the matches but all the potential programming around them.1 -
How many cameramen do you think we use when we televise a Valley Pass game?AddickUpNorth said:MuttleyCAFC said:You could televise it with fewer. It may not have the production values of a sky match but one camera is used for most I-follow games. Commentators don't have to be in the stadium.
Albert, ready to do his duty for the good of the game. God love him.0 -
Just announce the season is null and void.
Start next season when it's safe to do so.
Nothing else makes any sense.26 -
They could also use some of that huge rainy day fund that they have set asideSDAddick said:Just seen FIFA or UEFA or someone has proposed a five-sub rule.
It's just clutching at straws.
I would much rather they spend their time ensuring no clubs go under during not just the next couple months, but the next year-to-year and a half while football and all life is disrupted.0 -
To be honest, there are two massive objections with what I have proposed. The first being whether you can achieve the necessary sign up from the players and other key people which would require strict quarantine for a month and a half at least and secondly the presentational issue about players getting injuries that require health service intervention. But some of the reasons posted on here why it can't happen like ball retrieval, filming resources, required time are not good ones.0
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We already have a mid-season transfer window, so we already permit the scenario you’ve described.MuttleyCAFC said:I think the contract issue is the natural end of the season. I think once you get to the situation that Lyle Taylor could score the winner against us for Hull, you have lost the legitimacy of the season. You have to complete it by the end of June or give up on it IMO.
I think the situation I have come up with can be criticised justly on certain grounds, but it would be designed around zero chance of covid infection. Of course a player getting injured and needing hospital treatment could potentially put some risk on our health services although a small one. The presenational aspect of that may be more problematic than the actual.
You could argue that more football on the TV will help keep people in. It isn't just the matches but all the potential programming around them.Not sure why I’ve gotten myself into a debate on this, lockdown boredom must be getting to me.0 -
My latest view is they will finish it...The premier League have the same amount of games as we have to finish, and are looking to complete by the end of June. The EFL will follow suit....0
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One of the biggest things would be the pressure on resources to enforce that crowds don’t gather outside grounds. I am certain that there would be thousands of Liverpool or Leeds fans that would travel to the grounds to celebrate title wins and promotion.MuttleyCAFC said:To be honest, there are two massive objections with what I have proposed. The first being whether you can achieve the necessary sign up from the players and other key people which would require strict quarantine for a month and a half at least and secondly the presentational issue about players getting injuries that require health service intervention. But some of the reasons posted on here why it can't happen like ball retrieval, filming resources, required time are not good ones.
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paulbaconsarnie said:
One of the biggest things would be the pressure on resources to enforce that crowds don’t gather outside grounds. I am certain that there would be thousands of Liverpool or Leeds fans that would travel to the grounds to celebrate title wins and promotion.MuttleyCAFC said:To be honest, there are two massive objections with what I have proposed. The first being whether you can achieve the necessary sign up from the players and other key people which would require strict quarantine for a month and a half at least and secondly the presentational issue about players getting injuries that require health service intervention. But some of the reasons posted on here why it can't happen like ball retrieval, filming resources, required time are not good ones.
Undoubtedly true. Does anyone truly believe that thousands of Scousers wouldn't take to the streets to celebrate the winning of their first title in thirty years? Or that there wouldn't be huge celebrations on the streets of West Yorkshire when Leeds regain their Premiership status after being away for so long? We're all football fans, I'd doubt that we'd suppress ourselves if we were in their position.7 -
Well they've nothing else to do with their day up there...AddickUpNorth said:paulbaconsarnie said:
One of the biggest things would be the pressure on resources to enforce that crowds don’t gather outside grounds. I am certain that there would be thousands of Liverpool or Leeds fans that would travel to the grounds to celebrate title wins and promotion.MuttleyCAFC said:To be honest, there are two massive objections with what I have proposed. The first being whether you can achieve the necessary sign up from the players and other key people which would require strict quarantine for a month and a half at least and secondly the presentational issue about players getting injuries that require health service intervention. But some of the reasons posted on here why it can't happen like ball retrieval, filming resources, required time are not good ones.
Undoubtedly true. Does anyone truly believe that thousands of Scousers wouldn't take to the streets to celebrate the winning of their first title in thirty years? Or that there wouldn't be huge celebrations on the streets of West Yorkshire when Leeds regain their Premiership status after being away for so long? We're all football fans, I'd doubt that we'd suppress ourselves if we were in there position.0 - Sponsored links:
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Apologies to AFKA but Muttley has become Akworthesque. Absolutely bonkers ideas.7
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Genuine question: do they have a rainy day fund? Because if the last two months have taught me anything, it's that all the businesses who I thought had rainy day funds because they made such stupid amounts of money didn't save anything and instead gave it away to every person at the executive level.moutuakilla said:
They could also use some of that huge rainy day fund that they have set asideSDAddick said:Just seen FIFA or UEFA or someone has proposed a five-sub rule.
It's just clutching at straws.
I would much rather they spend their time ensuring no clubs go under during not just the next couple months, but the next year-to-year and a half while football and all life is disrupted.0 -
Lockdownitis can affect different people in different ways especially those who need to get out more 😉.1
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To be fair to Mutley, this is the only way it could be done. A lot of people seem to think that if we just play matches behind closed doors and limit the number of people involved, everything will be fine. But you really need a closed loop quarantine of everyone involved in the system.Croydon said:
I can't believe you haven't realised how mad this is while writing it.MuttleyCAFC said:Tested, then kept together for the month needed to complete the season - probably using the ground as their base. Sleeping, eating within the stadium and training on the pitch. With them a small tested staff of cleaners, chef, medical staff and coach driver. Away games they are driven to the ground and straight back. Changing and eating on the coach. There would need to be a similar arrangement in a few strategically placed hotels for officials.
Not great for the players and officials, but only for a month and many of them are probably itching to play. I think it could work. They would be like prisoners for a month, but the season would be finished and we would have loads of footy to watch.
The problem is, that's basically impossible. You're just not going to be able to isolate everyone involved. And that means that if the tea lady or the groundsman goes home to their spouse, and their spouse has caught it at the grocery store and is an asymptomatic carrier, they can then pass it to said staff member, who could pass it to players, who could pass it amongst each other in training or in matches and you could have flare ups at multiple clubs within a week, potentially before anyone showed symptoms.
Now, I think there may come a point in our society when we start to accept this as a risk for certain things. We already are for a lot of frontline medical staff, as well as essential workers. But given that club doctors are being drafted by the NHS, starting football would literally require taking people away from the NHS. Not to mention testing, PPE, disinfection agents, etc. I just can't see us, as a society, being willing to tolerate that in the next two months. Come August/September, especially if the virus slows in the summer, I think it's quite possible we'd be willing to take on those risks to some degree. But not anytime soon.2 -
I’d bet against. The PL want to finish for financial reasons, but my guess is that they’ll come up against public health advisers at various meetings, and will withdraw their plan ‘with regret’.Chippycafc said:My latest view is they will finish it...The premier League have the same amount of games as we have to finish, and are looking to complete by the end of June. The EFL will follow suit....If somehow they got the green light, then when one player tests positive, it’s all over.My rather rather miserable feeling is football won’t restart until there’s a vaccine, or effective treatment at least. It’s a contact sport.3 -
What happens if a couple of players from the same team dont want to play.JamesSeed said:
I’d bet against. The PL want to finish for financial reasons, but my guess is that they’ll come up against public health advisers at various meetings, and will withdraw their plan ‘with regret’.Chippycafc said:My latest view is they will finish it...The premier League have the same amount of games as we have to finish, and are looking to complete by the end of June. The EFL will follow suit....If somehow they got the green light, then when one player tests positive, it’s all over.My rather rather miserable feeling is football won’t restart until there’s a vaccine, or effective treatment at least. It’s a contact sport.
Might not want to leave the family or the other half is pregnant1 -
Yes, that’s another issue.clb74 said:
What happens if a couple of players from the same team dont want to play.JamesSeed said:
I’d bet against. The PL want to finish for financial reasons, but my guess is that they’ll come up against public health advisers at various meetings, and will withdraw their plan ‘with regret’.Chippycafc said:My latest view is they will finish it...The premier League have the same amount of games as we have to finish, and are looking to complete by the end of June. The EFL will follow suit....If somehow they got the green light, then when one player tests positive, it’s all over.My rather rather miserable feeling is football won’t restart until there’s a vaccine, or effective treatment at least. It’s a contact sport.
Might not want to leave the family or the other half is pregnant
Yet another issue is that some people would use it as an excuse to have a kick around in the park.
There are more I’m sure.0 -
Watching the daily briefing for the first time in a while, no way is football starting anytime soon.0
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I am glad you see what I was getting at. When you break it down, it is virtually impossible as you won't persuade players to lock themselves away for a month and a half. You would need to get all of them to agree and I can't see how that would happen. let alone everybody else you would need to lock away with them. But it is the only way it can be done. If you did it any other way, you risk the very real possibility that a player or players will catch the virus and if that happened with say five games to go it would be a disastrous mess.SDAddick said:
To be fair to Mutley, this is the only way it could be done. A lot of people seem to think that if we just play matches behind closed doors and limit the number of people involved, everything will be fine. But you really need a closed loop quarantine of everyone involved in the system.Croydon said:
I can't believe you haven't realised how mad this is while writing it.MuttleyCAFC said:Tested, then kept together for the month needed to complete the season - probably using the ground as their base. Sleeping, eating within the stadium and training on the pitch. With them a small tested staff of cleaners, chef, medical staff and coach driver. Away games they are driven to the ground and straight back. Changing and eating on the coach. There would need to be a similar arrangement in a few strategically placed hotels for officials.
Not great for the players and officials, but only for a month and many of them are probably itching to play. I think it could work. They would be like prisoners for a month, but the season would be finished and we would have loads of footy to watch.
The problem is, that's basically impossible. You're just not going to be able to isolate everyone involved. And that means that if the tea lady or the groundsman goes home to their spouse, and their spouse has caught it at the grocery store and is an asymptomatic carrier, they can then pass it to said staff member, who could pass it to players, who could pass it amongst each other in training or in matches and you could have flare ups at multiple clubs within a week, potentially before anyone showed symptoms.
Now, I think there may come a point in our society when we start to accept this as a risk for certain things. We already are for a lot of frontline medical staff, as well as essential workers. But given that club doctors are being drafted by the NHS, starting football would literally require taking people away from the NHS. Not to mention testing, PPE, disinfection agents, etc. I just can't see us, as a society, being willing to tolerate that in the next two months. Come August/September, especially if the virus slows in the summer, I think it's quite possible we'd be willing to take on those risks to some degree. But not anytime soon.
What I found amusing is how many reasons given why it wouldn't work were ridiculous when really there are two massive ones. In fact, probably only one unachievable one as you can get round the pressure on the health service risk by donating a share of profits to health service charities. We are happy to encourage 90 plus year olds to climb stairs for charity when there are surely risks to that.
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I hope you're right but I think you wont be...hope I am wrong...JamesSeed said:
I’d bet against. The PL want to finish for financial reasons, but my guess is that they’ll come up against public health advisers at various meetings, and will withdraw their plan ‘with regret’.Chippycafc said:My latest view is they will finish it...The premier League have the same amount of games as we have to finish, and are looking to complete by the end of June. The EFL will follow suit....If somehow they got the green light, then when one player tests positive, it’s all over.My rather rather miserable feeling is football won’t restart until there’s a vaccine, or effective treatment at least. It’s a contact sport.1
