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Is the season going to finish? (ed. Pg.53 - 3 players not returned to training)
Comments
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Promotion and no relegation and a lot less clubs suffer.Garrymanilow said:They should just stop football to be honest. Burn it all and make everyone start over, it's become an absolute farce the way money controls it. It's been bad enough with teams slinging money around to get their way and uprooting literal children from smaller clubs in order to maybe have an advantage 8 years down the line, but now the health of players or the integrity of the league is going to be placed in jeopardy so that the TV men don't get upset. Sod it all.I can appreciate that it's a difficult position the league are in; whatever you do you make someone suffer, be it by denying promotion or enforcing relegation, but there really are only two choices that are rooted in fairness; you either complete the season, or you shrug your shoulders, say it didn't happen and apologise for wasting everyone's time. It's a 46 game league. If teams fail to fulfill their fixtures under normal circumstances then they get fines and points deductions, because there's an agreed format and everyone has to stick by it or it's meaningless. That situation doesn't change just because it's affecting everyone. We either finish or it's nothing. Given that the health and safety of the players - and by extension their families - can't be guaranteed, there's really no option other than voiding it. If we'd been in the Playoff spots or by some miracle top of the league then we'd be fuming, but it would still be the correct, fairest and safest decision. We'd all moan on here about how the league have done us over, but it would be the right decision. Allowing the teams in the league to vote is the EFL abdicating the responsibility they have to safeguard the league and the employees who operate within it and it's absolute cowardice. They know full well that there's reasons beyond sporting integrity and safety that will influence clubs' votes and they're going to let that happen regardless so they can wash their hands of their responsibilities. Again.
If the play offs cant be played so just two go up then yes you will have a few disgruntled clubs in the play off places.
Taking the Championship as an example, promoting Leeds and West Brom and relegating nobody would be very fair. League 1 is tighter but Coventry deserve promotion. League 2 admittedly has 5 clubs who could all easily have won the league.
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Outside of probably three clubs, we all know how each team will vote. And so does the league. They have done the maths based on their understanding of how vested interest will be applied. That lacks integrity and will haunt the EFL for years to come.0
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Tbf that's not how relegation works.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:CAFCTrev said:To relegate us having only dropped into the relegation places as a result of our last game is bloody harsh!
It would be fairer to relegate those who have spent the most games in the relegation zone over the whole season but even then it wouldn't be fair.
It's who is in the relegation zone when the season ends.1 -
Not convinced they did - both were in much better form than Hull (and better form than us).cafcfan1990 said:
I don't agree with that. What if a team had been in the bottom three for the first 30 games and then won 7 on the bounce to go upto 14th.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:CAFCTrev said:To relegate us having only dropped into the relegation places as a result of our last game is bloody harsh!
It would be fairer to relegate those who have spent the most games in the relegation zone over the whole season but even then it wouldn't be fair.
It's unfair because 46 games weren't played and we were in the bottom three for a week, but our on the pitch form suggests we were definitely favourites to go down.
I would still like a play off though. Barnsley and Luton looked down but one of 6 could easily have gone down.0 -
I'm absolutely fuming.
The EFL talk about "'integrity of the league" but still haven't done anything to Sheff Wed & Derby. How the fuck can you sell your ground to yourself......and for £60m. No wonder Derby can afford to pay Wayne Rooney (with the help of a betting company). The EFL are corrupt.
If we get relegated after playing 37 games of a 46 game season then the EFL wont know what hit them. The protests will be louder than ever before.
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Its not just the point that some teams have spent less time in the relegation zone than others
Its also the fact that some teams are getting away without having to play certain fixtures - Take Wigan for example two points above us (nothing to say that gap would grow, shrink or see the two teams swap places again) - Part of that advantage is the fact that they've faced us at their Ground so had home advantage. With the season ending now, they're effectively getting away without having to travel to the Valley, not to mention the timing in the calendar, e.g. it was our last home game, we could easily have gone into that game knowing a win would make us safe etc.
Especially wouldnt have helped Wigan the fact they've got a terrible record @ the Valley in the first place
Yes we were dropping like a stone under Bowyer (off the field crap probably was distracting) yet would also be curious to see how we lined up going forward temporarily - Our last three games we were absolutely dire yet I question if thats also because we were more concerned with staying out of the relegation zone than winning games, we saw against Doncaster last season in the Play-Offs that Bowyer needs to learn to be braver when you've got something to protect... On the other hand when we've got nothing to lose, thats when we've appeared our most dangerous under him1 -
It is what it is.
If we have to play in league 1 then so be it.5 -
Been a long time since I got to enjoy a CAFC v CAFC gameclb74 said:It is what it is.
If we have to play in league 1 then so be it.
Never seen us face Cheltenham either so two bonus points right there for me being back in League One0 -
I can see us in a lot lower league than that , the way our club is going.clb74 said:It is what it is.
If we have to play in league 1 then so be it.0 -
will they ?golfaddick said:I'm absolutely fuming.
The EFL talk about "'integrity of the league" but still haven't done anything to Sheff Wed & Derby. How the fuck can you sell your ground to yourself......and for £60m. No wonder Derby can afford to pay Wayne Rooney (with the help of a betting company). The EFL are corrupt.
If we get relegated after playing 37 games of a 46 game season then the EFL wont know what hit them. The protests will be louder than ever before.1 - Sponsored links:
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We can sit down all day and work out the fairest way. But basically, it is fairer to promote a club or relegate a club if they are well clear. When you look at the Championship - Fulham are two wins away from West Brom. They still have a game against West Brom so have it in their power to make that three points.
Now let's look at Preston. They have still to play Cardiff and Bristol City. Cardiff are within two points of them and Bristol City One. You can't ignore these games are scheduled. It would be unjust for Preston to contest the play offs with these games unplayed.
Hull have of course us to play. And if we are going to beat any team, they are probably our best chance having scored 1 and conceded 9 in their last two which has been part of an awful run. They also have Luton and Barnsley to play as well as a number of clubs fighting for promotion.
You can make similar points with other teams, but you can't allow Preston to have a chance of promotion and Hull not have a chance of relegation fairly. This is because they have to play teams who can pass them in that one game.2 -
Your conclusion would involve common sense. This is the EFL we are talking aboutMuttleyCAFC said:We can sit down all day and work out the fairest way. But basically, it is fairer to promote a club or relegate a club if they are well clear. When you look at the Championship - Fulham are two wins away from West Brom. They still have a game against West Brom so have it in their power to make that three points.
Now let's look at Preston. They have still to play Cardiff and Bristol City. Cardiff are within two points of them and Bristol City One. You can't ignore these games are scheduled. It would be unjust for Preston to contest the play offs with these games unplayed.
Hull have of course us to play. And if we are going to beat any team, they are probably our best chance having scored 1 and conceded 9 in their last two with has been part of an awful run. They also have Luton and Barnsley to play as well as a number of clubs fighting for promotion.
You can make similar points with other teams, but you can't allow Preston to have a chance of promotion and Hull not have a chance of relegation fairly. This is because they have to play teams who can pass them in that one game.2 -
When merit is no longer a deciding factor, you have lost all integrity in your competition.1
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How do you think teams would vote
I reckon
Vote to end season
Leeds
West Brom
Brentford
Forest
Preston
Reading
Wednesday
Birmingham
Stoke
Huddersfield
Middlesbrough
Wigan
Hull
Vote to contine
Fulham
Bristol City
Millwall
Cardiff
Blackburn
Swansea
Derby
QPR
Charlton
Luton
Barnsley
That makes it 13-11 to ending the season now
The 3 mid table teams are playing for nothing, so why pay money for testig.
Brentford are not chasing the top 3 so may as well settle for play offs1 -
Of course we are biased and understandably so, but my view would be the same regardless. You can't promote or relegate teams based on an incomplete season. Play the season out or declare it Null and Void.6
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What should happen is
All 91 clubs should turn round and say to the premier league and the efl and say however you see fit to finish the season we will go along with the outcome.2 -
That is why the league has included the play offs. 3 teams not secure in them would vote to end the season and one team with a chance of automatic would vote to continue. If they decided to promote the top three, one team would want to end the season a three would not changing the outcome of a vote totally.paulie8290 said:How do you think teams would vote
I reckon
Vote to end season
Leeds
West Brom
Brentford
Forest
Preston
Reading
Wednesday
Birmingham
Stoke
Huddersfield
Middlesbrough
Wigan
Hull
Vote to contine
Fulham
Bristol City
Millwall
Cardiff
Blackburn
Swansea
Derby
QPR
Charlton
Luton
Barnsley
That makes it 13-11 to ending the season now
The 3 mid table teams are playing for nothing, so why pay money for testig.
Brentford are not chasing the top 3 so may as well settle for play offs
I wonder why the EFL have kept it vague as to what would happen if the play offs could not be played! I would imagine that it would not be too hard to prove in a court of law that the vote has been manipulated out of vested interest and has ignored merit. The question is whether fairness is a legal principle.1 -
Still don't think either team had enough to stay up. I think the game against Hull for us would have decided the third team. Obviously it wasn't certain, we were 22nd and 5 points off 17th, but them two spent all season down the bottom and didn't look capable of getting out of it.North Lower Neil said:
Not convinced they did - both were in much better form than Hull (and better form than us).cafcfan1990 said:
I don't agree with that. What if a team had been in the bottom three for the first 30 games and then won 7 on the bounce to go upto 14th.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:CAFCTrev said:To relegate us having only dropped into the relegation places as a result of our last game is bloody harsh!
It would be fairer to relegate those who have spent the most games in the relegation zone over the whole season but even then it wouldn't be fair.
It's unfair because 46 games weren't played and we were in the bottom three for a week, but our on the pitch form suggests we were definitely favourites to go down.
I would still like a play off though. Barnsley and Luton looked down but one of 6 could easily have gone down.
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cafcfan1990 said:
I don't agree with that. What if a team had been in the bottom three for the first 30 games and then won 7 on the bounce to go upto 14th.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:CAFCTrev said:To relegate us having only dropped into the relegation places as a result of our last game is bloody harsh!
It would be fairer to relegate those who have spent the most games in the relegation zone over the whole season but even then it wouldn't be fair.
It's unfair because 46 games weren't played and we were in the bottom three for a week, but our on the pitch form suggests we were definitely favourites to go down.
I would still like a play off though. Barnsley and Luton looked down but one of 6 could easily have gone down.
Agree mate it would be unfair but probably less unfair than a team that has spent one afternoon in the relegation zone on the last day dropping down.
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But we can have a debate about it - which means you cannot just say that would happen. Not by any stretch.0
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Yeah probably. The problem is that the table after 37 games is not usually a million miles off the one after 46 games. We may have only been in the bottom 3 for a week but we looked like a team going down.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:cafcfan1990 said:
I don't agree with that. What if a team had been in the bottom three for the first 30 games and then won 7 on the bounce to go upto 14th.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:CAFCTrev said:To relegate us having only dropped into the relegation places as a result of our last game is bloody harsh!
It would be fairer to relegate those who have spent the most games in the relegation zone over the whole season but even then it wouldn't be fair.
It's unfair because 46 games weren't played and we were in the bottom three for a week, but our on the pitch form suggests we were definitely favourites to go down.
I would still like a play off though. Barnsley and Luton looked down but one of 6 could easily have gone down.
Agree mate it would be unfair but probably less unfair than a team that has spent one afternoon in the relegation zone on the last day dropping down.
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It only has to me one mile off though doesn't it?0
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Are the play-offs going to be played behind closed doors. A 90,000 seat Wembley absolutely empty. That will be fun for the watching masses.MuttleyCAFC said:
That is why the league has included the play offs. 3 teams not secure in them would vote to end the season and one team with a chance of automatic would vote to continue. If they decided to promote the top three, one team would want to end the season a three would not changing the outcome of a vote totally.paulie8290 said:How do you think teams would vote
I reckon
Vote to end season
Leeds
West Brom
Brentford
Forest
Preston
Reading
Wednesday
Birmingham
Stoke
Huddersfield
Middlesbrough
Wigan
Hull
Vote to contine
Fulham
Bristol City
Millwall
Cardiff
Blackburn
Swansea
Derby
QPR
Charlton
Luton
Barnsley
That makes it 13-11 to ending the season now
The 3 mid table teams are playing for nothing, so why pay money for testig.
Brentford are not chasing the top 3 so may as well settle for play offs
I wonder why the EFL have kept it vague as to what would happen if the play offs could not be played! I would imagine that it would not be too hard to prove in a court of law that the vote has been manipulated out of vested interest and has ignored merit. The question is whether fairness is a legal principle.2 -
Unless thats changed or teams are being untruthful; Hull are the only team that are known to be opposed to ending the seasonpaulie8290 said:How do you think teams would vote
I reckon
Vote to end season
Leeds
West Brom
Brentford
Forest
Preston
Reading
Wednesday
Birmingham
Stoke
Huddersfield
Middlesbrough
Wigan
Hull
Vote to contine
Fulham
Bristol City
Millwall
Cardiff
Blackburn
Swansea
Derby
QPR
Charlton
Luton
Barnsley
That makes it 13-11 to ending the season now
The 3 mid table teams are playing for nothing, so why pay money for testig.
Brentford are not chasing the top 3 so may as well settle for play offs0 -
Likely you will be watching it on Valley Pass Unless it’s towards the end of next season.ForeverAddickted said:
Been a long time since I got to enjoy a CAFC v CAFC gameclb74 said:It is what it is.
If we have to play in league 1 then so be it.
Never seen us face Cheltenham either so two bonus points right there for me being back in League OneI wouldn’t trust EFL to run a bath, look at how they have handled the latest fit and proper Tests for our supposed takeover.4 -
The EFL have made this situation and the vote inherently unfair.
Asking clubs to vote on whether the season should end or not is totally different to asking them whether the season should be voided but with relegation based on the current positions/points per game.
The first vote is based on whether a club believes it is right and feasible to finish the season given the pandemic and outside issues such as finance and the transfer deadline. The second is heavily influenced by a club's own vested interests.
The legal challenge is surely the wording of the vote and whether what clubs are voting on is in keeping with the spirit of a competition that stipulate that a season comprises of 46 matches.1 -
An utter farce - the season should have been declared null and void if it couldn't be completed.
I've had it with football. If there's another outbreak next season what will they do?1 -
There will probably be rules in place to cover that eventuality and that is a world away from making up the rules as you go along. For that reason the season should be voided if it cannot be completed.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:An utter farce - the season should have been declared null and void if it couldn't be completed.
I've had it with football. If there's another outbreak next season what will they do?1 -
Fewer clubs would suffer yes, but ultimately it's still a decision being made that isn't in line with the agreed format of the league. Making the right decision isn't really about reducing suffering, it's about doing what's fairest within the previously agreed remit of the league. I think that if we started playing we'd probably still go down; morale at the club must be terrible and you can probably throw all the form that's gone before so far in this league out of the window given the amount of time that's passed and the events that have occurred. Hull might not be anywhere near as terrible as they were, they might be worse. At least if we play out the season we can say that we were entered into a 46 game home and away league and we completed it to settle our place in it. I don't think altering the structure of the leagues is justifiable. I still think the league should just be cancelled though because people's health is more important than a bit of sport and certainly more important than TV companies and league executives lining their pockets.cafcfan1990 said:
Promotion and no relegation and a lot less clubs suffer.Garrymanilow said:They should just stop football to be honest. Burn it all and make everyone start over, it's become an absolute farce the way money controls it. It's been bad enough with teams slinging money around to get their way and uprooting literal children from smaller clubs in order to maybe have an advantage 8 years down the line, but now the health of players or the integrity of the league is going to be placed in jeopardy so that the TV men don't get upset. Sod it all.I can appreciate that it's a difficult position the league are in; whatever you do you make someone suffer, be it by denying promotion or enforcing relegation, but there really are only two choices that are rooted in fairness; you either complete the season, or you shrug your shoulders, say it didn't happen and apologise for wasting everyone's time. It's a 46 game league. If teams fail to fulfill their fixtures under normal circumstances then they get fines and points deductions, because there's an agreed format and everyone has to stick by it or it's meaningless. That situation doesn't change just because it's affecting everyone. We either finish or it's nothing. Given that the health and safety of the players - and by extension their families - can't be guaranteed, there's really no option other than voiding it. If we'd been in the Playoff spots or by some miracle top of the league then we'd be fuming, but it would still be the correct, fairest and safest decision. We'd all moan on here about how the league have done us over, but it would be the right decision. Allowing the teams in the league to vote is the EFL abdicating the responsibility they have to safeguard the league and the employees who operate within it and it's absolute cowardice. They know full well that there's reasons beyond sporting integrity and safety that will influence clubs' votes and they're going to let that happen regardless so they can wash their hands of their responsibilities. Again.
If the play offs cant be played so just two go up then yes you will have a few disgruntled clubs in the play off places.
Taking the Championship as an example, promoting Leeds and West Brom and relegating nobody would be very fair. League 1 is tighter but Coventry deserve promotion. League 2 admittedly has 5 clubs who could all easily have won the league.
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The season should have been declared void across all four divisions if it couldn't be completed and we've obviously reached that stage. This has nothing to do with the integrity of sport and is solely down to money.
Nobody should be promoted, relegated or declared champions based on incomplete results - nothing was in place to manage this and it's all been done with hindsight.
The EFL are a useless organisation and epitomise how morally bankrupt football has become.
RIP Football and quite possibly RIP Charlton.
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