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Post-match Thread: Charlton Athletic v Milton Keynes | Wednesday 2nd December 2020
Comments
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Thoughts from a MK Dons supporting mate of mine:
Thought looked like Bowyer got set-up wrong though, and after better start by you to second half, subs made it worse. So much space between midfield & defence for Fraser to exploit. He's our danger man and nothing done to try and close him out of game
And r.e Bowyer's comments to the press:
V odd comments from Bowyer. Charlton's press was v poor - close to non-existent at times - and Fraser still had freedom of the Valley between the lines. Set-up for Charlton looked off4 -
When was the last time we played the same team , two games in a row ?0
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To be fair mate, he’s stated he wanted the fans to vocally pick the team up!!, that hasn’t been a problem in the most part this season, so probably shouldn’t 1st game back with fans. Bowyer didn’t need to make that comment as after a defeat it sounds just like an excuse.ForeverAddickted said:
And Bowyer has never previously turned on the fans has heCroydon said:
Doesn't work both ways, because the fans have never turned on him.ForeverAddickted said:
Works both ways... How many times in the last year could he have walked away?Chunes said:
Is there another manager in English football who has enjoyed more support from the fans than Lee Bowyer? Can't believe he's just called us out.Bedsaddick said:Bowyer has made a big mistake with those comments. That’s a dangerous road to go down when your team plays that bad .
Nor has he done so here, he's not blaming the fans for the result is he!!! - He's simply said that they wished they were more vocal... Once again the fanbase f**king piss themselves by reading into something too much!!
I'll keep it simple for you... This is what he's said
LB: "I'm pleased to see the fans back in. I'd have liked it to have been a bit more positive from the fans. They've been away for so long I would've liked them to pick the lads up when it's not going so well. I'm glad they are back in. I wish they were a little more vocal."
Highlight for me which parts he blames the fans for the result... Honestly please do so!!3 -
OK.
I have found these quotes from Richard Crawley.
LB: "It wasn't what I expected - because we don't stop singing normally. There wasn't much singing at all tonight."LB: "We've been wanting them to come back from day one. Even with 2,000 I expected it to be non-stop singing and pushing them. It was very, very quiet apart from some negative shouting. I get the players didn't do very much to get them on their feet."LB: "I'm pleased to see the fans back in. I'd have liked it to have been a bit more positive from the fans. They've been away for so long I would've liked them to pick the lads up when it's not going so well. I'm glad they are back in. I wish they were a little more vocal."
If Bowyer was like this every time then there is trouble, but these comments are not as damning as I thought, and can be recovered from.
The bit I was hoping for, which was there, was saying the players didn't do much to get the fans going. This is true in a no shit Sherlock kind of way.
Lee maybe needs to reflect on the context of it all though, it was far from a normal football crowd situation, and most importantly of all it wasn't the fans who lost the game.
If anything it was Russell Martin who won MKD the game by out managing and out thinking Lee Bowyer and I reckon that has hurt him and his ill considered comments are because he had no answer to MKD this evening.
I hope we can cut Bowyer a bit of slack, but he should not criticise the fans again...not a good look at all.3 -
He didn't blame the fans ffs. Some of our fans have been on a "war footing" for so long they don't know when to stop shooting.ButtleJR said:I'm a big LB fan but putting some blame on the fans is ridiculous. Do think at times he thinks he's exempt from criticism and he has to take some of the blame today as no one really looked up for it. Onto the next, maybe one day we'll beat a team we're favourites against.
I half expect to find someone tucked under a bush in 2035 with a "Roland out" banner refusing to set foot in the Valley until he has gone.
I won't have the heart to tell him we won the last 3 champions leagues and Roland has been dead for 5 years.4 -
Don't take this as me wanting Bowyer out. But he has to get us promoted this season. He has been backed by Thomas and is likely to be backed further in January. Despite the cap, the squad is pretty strong. I think it is more likely he will get us promoted than not still, but I am not giving him a free pass to fail. I appreciate many fans on here are happy to do so.
All this he could have walked is nonsense. If he was working for nothing, fair enough but he was being paid on a decent enough contract and whilst he was on the radar of teams, nobody bust a gut to get him. When there are coaches available of the calibre of Howe, Bowyer has to get this job right. Again, I'm sure he can.1 -
WHAddick said:Why do we struggle against the lower sides but handle our promotion rivals easily. Is it all just team setup? Surely it can't be a simple thing can it?
Against the better sides we set things up to keep it tight and nick a result. The win justifies the means. Because we lack creativity and don't keep hold of the ball, we struggle to break the lesser teams down.
Perhaps the most damning statistic relates to our shots on target by comparison with the best team in the Division, Hull (both played 14):
Total of shots on target:
Us - 42
Hull - 72
Number of games with 3 or less shots on target:
Us - 9
Hull - 1
A bit of this will come down to continuity and understanding. We have had injuries but, even with a full squad, one can't help thinking that LB would tinker on the basis of keeping players fresh and fit. Hull have had 8 outfield players who have started 11 or more of their League games. We've had one and he's a 35 year old.
As Mourinho put it in the Spurs documentary - "clean sheets are good". It is those that are winning us the points more than our goal threat. The lack of the latter is the reason we've picked up just 1 point from 15 in games in which we have gone behind.
We're 7 points adrift of Hull now and I know people will say look where we are in the table, games in hand etc etc. But picking up 1 point against Gillingham, Burton and M K Dons only gives rise to the conclusion that, actually, we are no more likely to beat the team in 24th than we are the team that is top.5 -
Fuck me, some people trying to twist that to Bowyer is blaming the fans?
Probably best I avoid this thread tonight and tomorrow.
PS @sage got his preview spot on about MK
Lee Bowyer's red and white army7 -
My issue is I've always seen this sort of argument as the Chicken / Egg Question as to what comes firstpaulfox said:
To be fair mate, he’s stated he wanted the fans to vocally pick the team up!!, that hasn’t been a problem in the most part this season, so probably shouldn’t 1st game back with fans. Bowyer didn’t need to make that comment as after a defeat it sounds just like an excuse.ForeverAddickted said:
And Bowyer has never previously turned on the fans has heCroydon said:
Doesn't work both ways, because the fans have never turned on him.ForeverAddickted said:
Works both ways... How many times in the last year could he have walked away?Chunes said:
Is there another manager in English football who has enjoyed more support from the fans than Lee Bowyer? Can't believe he's just called us out.Bedsaddick said:Bowyer has made a big mistake with those comments. That’s a dangerous road to go down when your team plays that bad .
Nor has he done so here, he's not blaming the fans for the result is he!!! - He's simply said that they wished they were more vocal... Once again the fanbase f**king piss themselves by reading into something too much!!
I'll keep it simple for you... This is what he's said
LB: "I'm pleased to see the fans back in. I'd have liked it to have been a bit more positive from the fans. They've been away for so long I would've liked them to pick the lads up when it's not going so well. I'm glad they are back in. I wish they were a little more vocal."
Highlight for me which parts he blames the fans for the result... Honestly please do so!!
We could all argue this till we're blue in the face but player performance and fan engagement is no different for me - If you see the team playing poorly then for me they need lifting, if they dont respond well then you've done all you can
As someone has already said, the context of how Bowyer was asked the question too needs to be taken into account, has he piped up randomly claiming that the fans could have done better when discussing the performance, if so then yeah I'd maybe agree that he's put a bit of blame at the fans door - Bowyer has responded though to just another question when asked about the fans returning
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/lee-bowyer-i-was-hoping-for-more-positive-backing-from-charlton-fans-on-return-to-the-valley/
Bowyer being Bowyer has answered it honestly (maybe a bit too honestly), but then he doesnt piss about you get what you see with him - We should know that by now with him, its not something I'd feel offended over though as a fan1 -
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If you cannot beat crap teams at home
you will bit get premonition ever!!!1 -
Oggy, you know mate I’m generally no OTT dramatic, but let me tell you honestly that whatever you saw tonight on the stream, it was ten times worse in the stadium.Oggy Red said:This thread is already predictable.
I think it best to give it a swerve until tomorrow.
We stunk the place out. You had to be there to see just how second rate we were in comparison, so static and tepid in possession while they had movement all over the place.
Only player really with any credit for us was Amos, yet you could have picked out 7 or 8 ‘decent footballers’ on their side.
I’m slightly exaggerating but reminded me a little of that last game of the season when Bournemouth come here when winning the league. They played us off the park. Then we were playing the league leaders and we had our holiday bags packed. Tonight wasn’t quite as bad as that but I’m just in complete shock how they are pulling up no trees this season just outside the relegation zone yet were better than us in every department of the pitch (bar keeper). The score line should have been much wider.
To hear Bowyer has them dug out fans is a further sickener.
Awful night.23 -
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/lee-bowyer-i-was-hoping-for-more-positive-backing-from-charlton-fans-on-return-to-the-valley/Henry Irving said:Fuck me, some people trying to twist that to Bowyer is blaming the fans?
Probably best I avoid this thread tonight and tomorrow.
PS @sage got his preview spot on about MK
Lee Bowyer's red and white army
Have a look at that... Bowyer has taken the absolute piss. As someone who was there 1.5hrs before kick off ready to cheer the boys on, with at least half of the crowd being either Children or 'older', please forgive us for not singing start to finish with a drum for 90 minutes while that team did next to nothing. The setup was totally inept, the tactics were bang off and playing on Saturday is no excuse.
For the first time, my attention is on Bowyer. If you have players in your lineup like Maddison, Shinnie, Gilbey, Watson, Gunter, Washington and you can't get them creating, then maybe your system needs some attention, rather than the fans.24 -
But then he isnt blaming the fans for the performanceVfrf said:
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/lee-bowyer-i-was-hoping-for-more-positive-backing-from-charlton-fans-on-return-to-the-valley/Henry Irving said:Fuck me, some people trying to twist that to Bowyer is blaming the fans?
Probably best I avoid this thread tonight and tomorrow.
PS @sage got his preview spot on about MK
Lee Bowyer's red and white army
Have a look at that... Bowyer has taken the absolute piss. As someone who was there 1.5hrs before kick off ready to cheer the boys on, with at least half of the crowd being either Children or 'older', please forgive us for not singing start to finish with a drum for 90 minutes while that team did next to nothing. The setup was totally inept, the tactics were bang off and playing on Saturday is no excuse.
For the first time, my attention is on Bowyer. If you have players in your lineup like Maddison, Shinnie, Gilbey, Watson, Gunter, Washington and you can't get them creating, then maybe your system needs some attention, rather than the fans.
“I’ve just said to them in there, if you can’t play in front of 2,000 then stop the game now. Because this stadium will be full again – 2,000 is not a big amount of people, so you shouldn’t get nervous and doing the wrong thing or hiding from the ball. None of them did that.
“Listen, the players didn’t really do too much to get people on their feet – but sometimes they need a bit of help, and that’s what our fans are great at.
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At the end of the day, the biggest issue is that bowyer got it wrong tonight. He knows journalists are going to go fishing for headlines, especially after shit displays like that. He maybe needs to be a bit more measured in his response, even though he was probably really pissed off himself.ForeverAddickted said:
My issue is I've always seen this sort of argument as the Chicken / Egg Question as to what comes firstpaulfox said:
To be fair mate, he’s stated he wanted the fans to vocally pick the team up!!, that hasn’t been a problem in the most part this season, so probably shouldn’t 1st game back with fans. Bowyer didn’t need to make that comment as after a defeat it sounds just like an excuse.ForeverAddickted said:
And Bowyer has never previously turned on the fans has heCroydon said:
Doesn't work both ways, because the fans have never turned on him.ForeverAddickted said:
Works both ways... How many times in the last year could he have walked away?Chunes said:
Is there another manager in English football who has enjoyed more support from the fans than Lee Bowyer? Can't believe he's just called us out.Bedsaddick said:Bowyer has made a big mistake with those comments. That’s a dangerous road to go down when your team plays that bad .
Nor has he done so here, he's not blaming the fans for the result is he!!! - He's simply said that they wished they were more vocal... Once again the fanbase f**king piss themselves by reading into something too much!!
I'll keep it simple for you... This is what he's said
LB: "I'm pleased to see the fans back in. I'd have liked it to have been a bit more positive from the fans. They've been away for so long I would've liked them to pick the lads up when it's not going so well. I'm glad they are back in. I wish they were a little more vocal."
Highlight for me which parts he blames the fans for the result... Honestly please do so!!
We could all argue this till we're blue in the face but player performance and fan engagement is no different for me - If you see the team playing poorly then for me they need lifting, if they dont respond well then you've done all you can
As someone has already said, the context of how Bowyer was asked the question too needs to be taken into account, has he piped up randomly claiming that the fans could have done better when discussing the performance, if so then yeah I'd maybe agree that he's put a bit of blame at the fans door - The way though Bowyer has answered that question makes it sound like he was actually asked about how he feels about fans being back.
Bowyer being Bowyer has answered it honestly (maybe a bit too honestly), but then he doesnt piss about you get what you see with him - We should know that by now with him, its not something I'd feel offended over though as a fan
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as a minor note Maddison’s odd boots really annoy me - they just look strange.6
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Was there. 4 of our "new" players were awful. Shinnie, Gilbey, Washington and Madison. Terrible.2
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But then the Manager isnt always going to get it right so is probably one reason why I'm less pissed off than otherspaulfox said:
At the end of the day, the biggest issue is that bowyer got it wrong tonight. He knows journalists are going to go fishing for headlines, especially after shit displays like that. He maybe needs to be a bit more measured in his response, even though he was probably really pissed off himself.ForeverAddickted said:
My issue is I've always seen this sort of argument as the Chicken / Egg Question as to what comes firstpaulfox said:
To be fair mate, he’s stated he wanted the fans to vocally pick the team up!!, that hasn’t been a problem in the most part this season, so probably shouldn’t 1st game back with fans. Bowyer didn’t need to make that comment as after a defeat it sounds just like an excuse.ForeverAddickted said:
And Bowyer has never previously turned on the fans has heCroydon said:
Doesn't work both ways, because the fans have never turned on him.ForeverAddickted said:
Works both ways... How many times in the last year could he have walked away?Chunes said:
Is there another manager in English football who has enjoyed more support from the fans than Lee Bowyer? Can't believe he's just called us out.Bedsaddick said:Bowyer has made a big mistake with those comments. That’s a dangerous road to go down when your team plays that bad .
Nor has he done so here, he's not blaming the fans for the result is he!!! - He's simply said that they wished they were more vocal... Once again the fanbase f**king piss themselves by reading into something too much!!
I'll keep it simple for you... This is what he's said
LB: "I'm pleased to see the fans back in. I'd have liked it to have been a bit more positive from the fans. They've been away for so long I would've liked them to pick the lads up when it's not going so well. I'm glad they are back in. I wish they were a little more vocal."
Highlight for me which parts he blames the fans for the result... Honestly please do so!!
We could all argue this till we're blue in the face but player performance and fan engagement is no different for me - If you see the team playing poorly then for me they need lifting, if they dont respond well then you've done all you can
As someone has already said, the context of how Bowyer was asked the question too needs to be taken into account, has he piped up randomly claiming that the fans could have done better when discussing the performance, if so then yeah I'd maybe agree that he's put a bit of blame at the fans door - The way though Bowyer has answered that question makes it sound like he was actually asked about how he feels about fans being back.
Bowyer being Bowyer has answered it honestly (maybe a bit too honestly), but then he doesnt piss about you get what you see with him - We should know that by now with him, its not something I'd feel offended over though as a fan
Take a look at us against Kenny Jackett / Portsmouth - They cant get a point from a Lee Bowyer side
Sometimes a Manager can do his homework and get it right against you... But yeah Lee definitely needs to be more tactful when speaking to the press but then I quite like his blunt side, its refreshing to see from the usual robotic responses that journalists get these days, one of the worst parts of the game for me these days1 -
They plated through us, around us you name it. We allowed Fraser to run the show from start to finish. Carlton Morris was allowed to go up and bring the ball down on his chest with no challenge.
I completely agree with bowyer that us fans were not loud enough but there was hardly anything to cheer about.
On to the next one as that was absolute horse shit0 -
Yes, we win on Saturday and it all looks brighter. I think we have to work out how to play in games like this. We are expected to win and sometimes it is easier to stop teams and counter.
If we have Innes and Famewo playing as they were before injuries, it probably makes the team more effective offensively as well as defensively. Hopefully Pearce and Famewo are ready and I'm sure things will improve. Hopefully we can start Aneke on Saturday too.0 -
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yeah didnt look greatpalarsehater said:as a minor note Maddison’s odd boots really annoy me - they just look strange.1 -
Stop f’ing tinkering with the midfield.....that would be a start.1
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Why are we starting with 2 centre half’s on the bench , surely if they are fit enough to be on the bench they are fit enough to play . LB loves Watson and Prately and Matthews and Gunter - so this way he can play all 4 . Gunter is not a centre half but better than Matthews who is great going forward but can’t defend - how many goals do we let in on the right side when he is playing - when Gunter was there how many clean sheets did we have .We lack pace up front but Williams gave us that when he came on and Chucks definitely should start with Williams Smith when he is fit to give us pace . LB is great but he got it wrong tonight with that team0
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Least we could tell him apart from the rest of the squadjacob_CAFC said:
yeah didnt look greatpalarsehater said:as a minor note Maddison’s odd boots really annoy me - they just look strange.
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Bowyer does not get a free pass this season. He either takes us up or we get rid of him. Massive o.g from him tonight, blaming the fans. Someone should have a word in his ear about what happened to Andy Nelson. Welcome back to the valley and btw its your fault we lost. He has no idea what Charlton fans have been through and to call us out in the middle of the pandemic is unforgivable. He needs to have a look at himself and apologise to the fans for his insulting comments.3
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What do we all then complain about when they get injured due to tiredness and being over-played?willieduff said:Stop f’ing tinkering with the midfield.....that would be a start.0 -
Maddison wasn’t terrible . He put four great crosses in , it’s not his fault that we have shit strikers.Doomer Jon said:Was there. 4 of our "new" players were awful. Shinnie, Gilbey, Washington and Madison. Terrible.
There was no creativity in the first half .
He’s quickly becoming the man to blame . There are at least 7 players worse than him tonight .14 -
Another good Sandgaard article in today’s Guardian, the feel good factor coming back to the club, the team performing well and fans back at the Valley for tonight’s match, what could possibly go wrong?
Cue typical charlton performance when all the omens are good, 1-2 defeat
My comment from the match preview, got the score wrong.It’s all so predictable and happens far too frequently to be just a coincidence, surely?0 -
He has no right to blame the fans full stop.ForeverAddickted said:
But then he isnt blaming the fans for the performanceVfrf said:
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/lee-bowyer-i-was-hoping-for-more-positive-backing-from-charlton-fans-on-return-to-the-valley/Henry Irving said:Fuck me, some people trying to twist that to Bowyer is blaming the fans?
Probably best I avoid this thread tonight and tomorrow.
PS @sage got his preview spot on about MK
Lee Bowyer's red and white army
Have a look at that... Bowyer has taken the absolute piss. As someone who was there 1.5hrs before kick off ready to cheer the boys on, with at least half of the crowd being either Children or 'older', please forgive us for not singing start to finish with a drum for 90 minutes while that team did next to nothing. The setup was totally inept, the tactics were bang off and playing on Saturday is no excuse.
For the first time, my attention is on Bowyer. If you have players in your lineup like Maddison, Shinnie, Gilbey, Watson, Gunter, Washington and you can't get them creating, then maybe your system needs some attention, rather than the fans.
“I’ve just said to them in there, if you can’t play in front of 2,000 then stop the game now. Because this stadium will be full again – 2,000 is not a big amount of people, so you shouldn’t get nervous and doing the wrong thing or hiding from the ball. None of them did that.
“Listen, the players didn’t really do too much to get people on their feet – but sometimes they need a bit of help, and that’s what our fans are great at.
Not only do we not get paid the sums they do (which should be motivation enough), we pay money to be entertained - and in all sense of the word they have failed. From Bowyer's hapless 4132 shape which did nothing but invote pressure, to Maddison not chasing a ball when he's played 45 mins on however many £k he earns, to Bogle controlling a ball into thin air, to having a CB partnership of a RB and a CDM when we have Charlie Barker more than able to step in alongside Famewo which would allow Gunter to go back in his favourite position. The fans are the LAST thing he needs to be thinking about.
The key issue is we have about 5 players that are arguable Championship quality:
Shinnie - having to drop deep to get a sniff of the ball.
Gunter - playing out of position when you have Charlie Barker ready and waiting.
Washington - being played LW for about 40 minutes.
Gilbey - playing LW for a half and a bit.
Watson - playing as a sole CB being stretched right across the pitch when his back four are completely makeshift.
Don't care what flack I get for saying it, but Bowyer needs to be careful, Thomas doesn't strike me as the kind of man with blind faith.11 -
Because he has tattoos and wears odd boots. Our fanbase is strange.Bedsaddick said:
Maddison wasn’t terrible . He put four great crosses in , it’s not his fault that we have shit strikers.Doomer Jon said:Was there. 4 of our "new" players were awful. Shinnie, Gilbey, Washington and Madison. Terrible.
There was no creativity in the first half .
He’s quickly becoming the man to blame . There are at least 7 players worse than him tonight .3
