POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton v Accrington | Fri 8 Jan 2021
Comments
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I did not sleep well last night.
We looked solid at the start of the season and somehow something changed since the international break. Players don't want to have the ball anymore, are not agressive enough off the ball. Yesterday that was painfully obvious. People hiding, being overrun for second balls all night long. I think it is a confidence thing.
Also, a difference is that in the Championship we gave possession to the opposition. Basically setting up for a draw. But now teams set up against us like that and we lack pace, skill and creativity.
Bowyer has been a great manager for us. If he still is, I don't know. He asks a lot of his players and I don't think at this level the players can deliver. If they could, they wouldn't be in League One. But I do like having a manager who is genuinely pissed off about a performance like yesterday. Singling out players like this will only make things worse, will harm the player's confidence in the short and long term. And also to the morale and the desire to win at all cost.1 -
I had a dream last night that I was driving on a motorway, the wrong way, with artics coming at me, swerving to get out of the way.
It was a bit like watching the footie, a car crash of a performance.0 -
Slept on it as I was absolutely raging last night, maybe Lee should of done the same before the press interview.
Such a disappointment last night probably the lowest I've felt all season. The defence and midfield was abysmal, every single time they would breeze through or midfield. JFC isn't a CDM, and Christ knows wtf Gilbey is. Morgan had a stinker, didn't even know he was playing until he hit one 50 yards over in the first half.
Many people celebrating the fact Watson got injured last week, I bet they feel good now as that game was crying out for a player like him, and he will be missed.
Lee is right many players have been passengers lately just watching the game go by. There's no fight no desire and that showed last night, kin embarrassing that and I can see why Lee was so angry.
Getting rid of Lee would be disastrous, yes he can be hotheaded at times and says what he feels but that's Lee bowyer. He knows how to take us out of this league. Lee in %110.
I think we need to get rid of a few in the summer Williams JFC Pearce etc. There simply not good enough for where we want to be, in fact there isn't many id keep maybe Washington Watson Amos.
Anyway feels good to get it of my chest, onwards and upwards Coyrs
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All these people asking for Bowyer to go, Jackson is also accountable. I don’t want to see either go.I trust in Bowyer to turn it around.Fingers crossed we do5
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Watson was playing against MK Dons where they walked through our midfield even more than they did last night. In his last game, a player walked past him to set up a goal. I struggle to think what kind of game cries out for Watson. Pratley, definitely. Watson's legs have totally gone.AdTheAddicK said:
Many people celebrating the fact Watson got injured last week, I bet they feel good now as that game was crying out for a player like him, and he will be missed.1 -
The midfield three were the problem yesterday. A combination of Gilbey, Morgan and JFC are too similar. Neither of them protect the back 4 or get forward to help link up play with the front 3. The amount of passes which went straight from Accrington CB to Strikers in between are midfield was ridiculous.
Accrington looked like a well rounded team we played like a bunch of individuals. If promotion is our serious ambition then no one can argue that we are in a crisis,
Last night showed why it’s taken us three years to get out of League 1 each time.1 -
In the 70s after the 4-4 draw at Burnley,we stopped of at Peel Park to see Accringtons old ground derelict after they were chucked out of the league.
If some one had told me they then that they would come back to the Valley and outplay Charlton ,even 40 years on i would not have believed them.
Fair play to them ,its a measure on how far they have come,but also on how far we have fallen.4 -
I don't think it's as simple as that.up_the_valley said:
No. He's after his CB's back. This is what is causing all the frustration in the LB plan. He knows once Innis and Famewo are back we will start winning games again.Wheresmeticket? said:He's after a pay off. I hope TS makes him walk.4 -
I disagree. Watson has better traits suited as a CDM then Gilbey and JFC. We missed him yesterday even if it was commanding the midfield more, not one player had an ounce of desire in the midfield. I don't think Watson is as bad as fans make out.Chunes said:
Watson was playing against MK Dons where they walked through our midfield even more than they did last night. In his last game, a player walked past him to set up a goal. I struggle to think what kind of game cries out for Watson. Pratley, definitely. Watson's legs have totally gone.AdTheAddicK said:
Many people celebrating the fact Watson got injured last week, I bet they feel good now as that game was crying out for a player like him, and he will be missed.7 -
Could be code for "I'm sacking the manager & bringing in someone who knows his best team & formation"MattF said:Of little consequence but it's been mentioned that TS has been quiet on Twitter tonight7 -
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I do not think the comments are fair. I watched the game and as far as I could see Accrington had 16 players.14
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Players that wanted to be there and play.rememberbillybonds said:I do not think the comments are fair. I watched the game and as far as I could see Accrington had 16 players.1 -
I posted a couple of times last night on this thread immediately after the game. Having slept, very badly, on the performance, I can't remember us winning one second ball or one 50/50. Earlier in the season we were doing both of the above regularly, we had intensity we played as s team and fought for the ball and each other. However all that seems to have dissipated over the last few games, and last night was non-existent!
Something has changed massively, and sadly I now think LB may have lost or is beginning to lose the dressing room. This could be because LB is not taking time to chose his public words wisely. I do think he needs a more experienced head above him and I would ask TS to offer Curbs a role to help Lee, not next week but today!3 -
The benefits of a settled side and formation with a group of players who all know their role.Gravesend_Addick said:On the flip side of our shambles, credit where it's due, I thought Accrington were excellent
In comparison we have our cobbled together mish-mash with at least 2-3 changes every game, as well as sometimes a formation change and because of that i feel we struggle to find any kind of rhythm.
Matthews right back one week, left back another week, sub another week.
Gunter sometimes right back, sometimes centre back.
Maatsen, left back but sometimes left midfield and even last week right midfield.
Morgan, does Bowyer even know his best position? Left, right, central?
Williams, Bowyer digs him out, got a reaction next game when Williams scored and since then he's barely featured.
Maddison, comes on and scores a great goal against Plymouth. Kept on the bench the entire next game.
Aneke, sometimes sub, sometimes starts.
Bogle, sometimes sub, sometimes starts, now (rightly) dropped completely.
Bowyer chops and changes so much that if we do stumble upon something that works it'll be by luck rather than any kind of tactical masterstroke.15 -
Can’t disagree with Bows here. And he does take the blame in relation to the subs.Major said:HandG said:
I agree with this but Bowyer called him out as well in his interview! He clearly doesn’t rate him like he does Pratley and Watson. It must be horrible for the individual to play under those circumstances especially someone like Deji who, despite his limitations, never gives less than 100%...Charltonparklane said:
Positive - Deji played really well for meYou must have seen a different interview. No mention of Deji criticism in Richard Cawley's piece.And having watched the game, I can't find any argument with it.
From Richard Cawley, London Online:
Lee Bowyer tears into his Charlton Athletic side and calls display against Accrington Stanley “unacceptable”
Lee Bowyer blasted the performance of his Charlton team after tonight’s 2-0 loss to Accrington Stanley.The Addicks manager has been critical of his side’s performances on more than one occasion this season.And successive reverses – Colby Bishop striking in either half – have dropped the SE7 outfit out of the League One top six.Bowyer said: “They deserved to win – from start to finish they looked hungrier, they had more fight. I just said to the players that it’s probably the calmest I’ve ever been after a defeat ever. And it’s because I can’t defend what’s just happened.
“It’s not like my team. My team, you fight for everything. And then at least if you come off you say: ‘I’ve given everything’. There were too many last week, too many this week who think they can just turn up and be given three points. We got outfought and outbattled. We were too soft.
“First goal – it’s laughable. It’s like going to watch Sunday league football, that goal. What, the goalkeeper catches the ball and just punts it up there? You have a mix up. Come on, you’re meant to be professional footballers. That can’t be happening.“You’ve got to take pride – two experienced players. Your captain and your goalkeeper. That’s a poor goal.
“At times we moved the ball well and we had to move it well because we don’t have that physicality until we bring Chuks [Aneke] on.“We had to be brave and try and play out at times, maybe overplay at times but when we did do it then we looked dangerous. But again, in front of goal, they threw their body on the line, blocked shots and their keeper made some good saves.
“It’s just not good enough. Not acceptable. And to play for this football club, you think it’s acceptable to jump out of tackles? Literally jump out of the way. Again. That’s two players now. To play for this football club you should be proud and fight for this shirt. There are too many that turn up, think it is okay ‘I’ve got another one Tuesday’ – because we have got injuries and we’re short in midfield.
“Maybe people think ‘I have to play because there is no-one else’. So they think they can take it easy, I don’t know. I don’t know – I can’t put my finger on it.“But what I’ve witnessed just there is not what I expect from any of my team. Disappointed….I’m being very, very polite there.
“Sometimes it’s not about what I do. I said to the players: ‘You have to look at yourselves at times’. Do you accept what you’ve just done on the pitch? Do you accept it, as a professional footballer? Some of them, it’s their career. Some of them are coming up in the last year of their contract. Some of them are playing for contracts, whether it is with this club or a different club. They are on Sky tele – these are the days, if anything, you express – not go the other way.
“When I say you’ve got to be brave – fight and compete – that also means to be brave getting on the ball. Not just hiding. Get on the ball and make something happen for your team. Not just the physical side.“What will I do? I will speak to them as individuals. But as a starting 11 there isn’t really much you can do. The midfield is the midfield. That’s the three midfielders who are fit and eligible to play today. And Tuesday – it will be no different.
“Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say:
“I gave everything’ then they are liars.“I can do so much but sometimes it comes from within. If you accept that is good enough then you’re in the wrong game. And you’re definitely at the wrong club – because you have to fight at this club.”5 -
Fair enough if you disagree. I just think if Watson is the answer to our midfield problems, we really are in trouble. Because he's played there every game except today.AdTheAddicK said:
I disagree. Watson has better traits suited as a CDM then Gilbey and JFC. We missed him yesterday even if it was commanding the midfield more, not one player had an ounce of desire in the midfield. I don't think Watson is as bad as fans make out.Chunes said:
Watson was playing against MK Dons where they walked through our midfield even more than they did last night. In his last game, a player walked past him to set up a goal. I struggle to think what kind of game cries out for Watson. Pratley, definitely. Watson's legs have totally gone.AdTheAddicK said:
Many people celebrating the fact Watson got injured last week, I bet they feel good now as that game was crying out for a player like him, and he will be missed.3 -
Hundred percent agree with Bowyer statement, but we’ve still got 26 games left this season. Not sure how many more times we can hear this after matches and expect a reaction from the playersEveshamAddick said:
Can’t disagree with Bows here. And he does take the blame in relation to the subs.Major said:HandG said:
I agree with this but Bowyer called him out as well in his interview! He clearly doesn’t rate him like he does Pratley and Watson. It must be horrible for the individual to play under those circumstances especially someone like Deji who, despite his limitations, never gives less than 100%...Charltonparklane said:
Positive - Deji played really well for meYou must have seen a different interview. No mention of Deji criticism in Richard Cawley's piece.And having watched the game, I can't find any argument with it.
From Richard Cawley, London Online:
Lee Bowyer tears into his Charlton Athletic side and calls display against Accrington Stanley “unacceptable”
Lee Bowyer blasted the performance of his Charlton team after tonight’s 2-0 loss to Accrington Stanley.The Addicks manager has been critical of his side’s performances on more than one occasion this season.And successive reverses – Colby Bishop striking in either half – have dropped the SE7 outfit out of the League One top six.Bowyer said: “They deserved to win – from start to finish they looked hungrier, they had more fight. I just said to the players that it’s probably the calmest I’ve ever been after a defeat ever. And it’s because I can’t defend what’s just happened.
“It’s not like my team. My team, you fight for everything. And then at least if you come off you say: ‘I’ve given everything’. There were too many last week, too many this week who think they can just turn up and be given three points. We got outfought and outbattled. We were too soft.
“First goal – it’s laughable. It’s like going to watch Sunday league football, that goal. What, the goalkeeper catches the ball and just punts it up there? You have a mix up. Come on, you’re meant to be professional footballers. That can’t be happening.“You’ve got to take pride – two experienced players. Your captain and your goalkeeper. That’s a poor goal.
“At times we moved the ball well and we had to move it well because we don’t have that physicality until we bring Chuks [Aneke] on.“We had to be brave and try and play out at times, maybe overplay at times but when we did do it then we looked dangerous. But again, in front of goal, they threw their body on the line, blocked shots and their keeper made some good saves.
“It’s just not good enough. Not acceptable. And to play for this football club, you think it’s acceptable to jump out of tackles? Literally jump out of the way. Again. That’s two players now. To play for this football club you should be proud and fight for this shirt. There are too many that turn up, think it is okay ‘I’ve got another one Tuesday’ – because we have got injuries and we’re short in midfield.
“Maybe people think ‘I have to play because there is no-one else’. So they think they can take it easy, I don’t know. I don’t know – I can’t put my finger on it.“But what I’ve witnessed just there is not what I expect from any of my team. Disappointed….I’m being very, very polite there.
“Sometimes it’s not about what I do. I said to the players: ‘You have to look at yourselves at times’. Do you accept what you’ve just done on the pitch? Do you accept it, as a professional footballer? Some of them, it’s their career. Some of them are coming up in the last year of their contract. Some of them are playing for contracts, whether it is with this club or a different club. They are on Sky tele – these are the days, if anything, you express – not go the other way.
“When I say you’ve got to be brave – fight and compete – that also means to be brave getting on the ball. Not just hiding. Get on the ball and make something happen for your team. Not just the physical side.“What will I do? I will speak to them as individuals. But as a starting 11 there isn’t really much you can do. The midfield is the midfield. That’s the three midfielders who are fit and eligible to play today. And Tuesday – it will be no different.
“Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say:
“I gave everything’ then they are liars.“I can do so much but sometimes it comes from within. If you accept that is good enough then you’re in the wrong game. And you’re definitely at the wrong club – because you have to fight at this club.”1 -
Watson was a big miss last night. He does at least have the desire to compete for the loose balls and generally reads the play well. We haven't been great with him in the team but last night showed how wide open we are without him.
4-3-3 didn't work for me. Yes we had a few good shots but no great chances. Rochdale is now such an important game for LB. He must be thinking that he needs to start Aneke and Schwartz together and hope they get us in front. Washington can come on with some energy later.
I'd also give Gunter and Maatsen a rest and put Matthews and Purrington in.
Matthews Oshilaja Pearce Purrington
Morgan JFC Gilbey Millar
Schwartz Aneke
Smyth Gunter Maatsen Washington Williams Barker MB
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I don't know if he is the answer, but he provides the midfield with a lot of balance and commands it very well. Lee is right if he was on the pitch yesterday you wouldn't see him pulling out of 50/50s etc and against a team like Stanley that's exactly what you need.Chunes said:
Fair enough if you disagree. I just think if Watson is the answer to our midfield problems, we really are in trouble. Because he's played there every game except today.AdTheAddicK said:
I disagree. Watson has better traits suited as a CDM then Gilbey and JFC. We missed him yesterday even if it was commanding the midfield more, not one player had an ounce of desire in the midfield. I don't think Watson is as bad as fans make out.Chunes said:
Watson was playing against MK Dons where they walked through our midfield even more than they did last night. In his last game, a player walked past him to set up a goal. I struggle to think what kind of game cries out for Watson. Pratley, definitely. Watson's legs have totally gone.AdTheAddicK said:
Many people celebrating the fact Watson got injured last week, I bet they feel good now as that game was crying out for a player like him, and he will be missed.3 -
The difference between a side that went 6 games unbeaten and without conceding to now is simple:
We've lost 3 of the key players brought in after TS took over: Inniss, Famewo & Shinnie.
Take out Watson and Pratley as well and the spine of the team is severely weakened, in terms of both formation and bottle.
Lack of strength at the heart of the defence and midfield and a constantly changing team and formation has left Gunter and Maaatsen (clearly decent players) exposed and prone to mistakes they simply weren't making 2 months ago.
Until Millar arrived, having lost Doughty, we had no one who is able and prepared to repeatedly take on and beat a player. Shinnie's ability to thread a pass became vital to (and the only consistent means of) getting our forwards in behind the oppo defence.
No coincidence therefore that when we lost him, our goal threat diminished significantly and left our forwards (otherwise decent players, if not worldbeaters) without any consistent creative support.
A midfield of any permutation and formation of Gilbey (who can be invisible at times), Morgan (still obviously inexperienced), JFC (truthfully a squad player and no more), Williams and Maddison (neither looking a good fit for us right now) simply not up to either the defensive or creative job and with precious little bite to stifle the oppo in midfield.
Has LB contributed to the problem with chopping and changing the team and formation? Yes. He has to take a large measure of blame for trying too many different ideas in search of a way of compensating for the lost key players. He's not succeeded and it's left otherwise decent players looking confused and like they've only just met one another.
Do I think it's a good idea for LB to dig individual players out in public? No, but I have zero doubt that he says precisely what he says in public to them privately (and a dash more!) and I don't expect him to be the consummate all round perfect manager. What he does is what he's always done - give it 110% for his club and I want him to demand the same from his players. I hope that TS will put a metaphorical arm round Bow and, with SG and JJ's help, start reshaping the personnel and rebuilding the morale of the dressing room.
Do I think LB should go? Absolutely not. If the choice is between LB going and Williams and Maddison going, then it's a 100% bye-bye Jonnie and Marcus from me and a bye-bye to any other player who doesn't like the heat in the kitchen and isn't (for whatever reason) prepared to give the 110% that LB has always given for CAFC.
I'd be amazed if TS thinks much differently to this and I believe he's fully prepared for us to miss out this season if that's how it pans out.
Short of digging out TS himself, I expect LB to still be here at the start of next season and I for one will be very glad of that.19 -
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Dear Bailey thanks for your input.RaplhMilne said:
Says the man, who the resorts to calling people childish names......Bailey said:Take no notice 1968, most of the posters on here believe that only they have a divine right to an opinion, write what you want and take pleasure in the fact that you are annoying the soppy little pratts.
unfortunately the fallout from the demise of our team under LB are some of the worst divisions ever seen in our fan base. An petty name calling and arguments. We are living in a depressing troubled time (not LB,s fault) but our team imploding in front of our eyes every week, is adding to this agony, and I’m sure to the depression of some of our fans.
I Certainly won’t get depressed by stupid comments and value my opinions that are based on intelligent reasoning.
The Only area that worries me, is why do we seem to get more injuries than normal ?
i know for a fact if our defenders were not injured
LB would still be a blues eyed Hero.😂👍👍👍1 -
Maybe Thomas is taking a pragmatic approach and is looking long term. In Powell's first half a season he ended up in 15th. Took on 15 new lads through the summer and ripped the league apart. If Lee is going to emulate that, he will need the same. Rip apart this squad and go again. Look at Lincoln. Average age last season, 31, average age this season, 22!. Theyve stripped out all the dead wood for hungry fit young lads and the team spirit is through the roof.
Bowyer needs to consider what works in this league. Quality counts but Fit, Fast kids will beat old classy cart horses. Sad to say, but we have too many luxury players that are not work it. A bit like classic cars. They have a great reputation and look fantastic, but a new modern car is more economical, faster and more reliable. Change is needed. It's all up to Thomas.2 -
Powell wasn't hindered by a salary cap.
It will only be harder next season unless the cap is removed.13 -
Since Lee's been in charge even when we did have a full squad it was fked about with week in week out chpping and changing.
You can only blame injuries so much.
With the players we have WE MUST BE BETTER
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It looked as if accrington had 12 players on the pitch and we had 9 ..either we had set up poorly or accrington had prepared wonderfully...theres an old addage...each player must know their job..its obviously they didn't..from 1 to 11. We lost almost every 50/50 ,they looked stronger fitter and bigger...no excuses please...
I suspect Bowyer is pushing back against something internally and its manifesting itself on the pitch...under the old regimes he was the man in total control of football now with proper conventional management he is more answerable..if this conjecture is true he will have to go
I have never had him down as the sharpest tool in the shed and I think his lack of depth is revealing itself ..sorry Lee its thanks from me ,you've done marvelously under the circumstances but time to go...give someone time to prepare for next season2 -
Players are being rotated too much.Charltonparklane said:Since Lee's been in charge even when we did have a full squad it was fked about with week in week out chpping and changing.
You can only blame injuries so much.
With the players we have WE MUST BE BETTER
Play your best 11 from the start.8 -
I’ve thought this for a while, but last seasons injury crisis has scarred Bows. It was awful, granted. But possibly a freak occurrence having that many first teamers out at one time. He has now decided the best way to avoid injuries is rotation and limiting some of the more injury hit players to 20 minute appearances every so often. I genuinely think he is scarred from it and is focusing on avoiding it rather than playing the season out as normalDazzler21 said:
Players are being rotated too much.Charltonparklane said:Since Lee's been in charge even when we did have a full squad it was fked about with week in week out chpping and changing.
You can only blame injuries so much.
With the players we have WE MUST BE BETTER
Play your best 11 from the start.2 -
So poor. That stat on TV about how much chopping and changing has been done was relevant. Yes they have been lucky with injury, we have not (as has always been the case for over thirty years, bar one season), but no consistency and two or three players who cannot last ninety minutes just isn't good enough (and two of the players who cannot play for ninety minutes are the better ones, in my opinion).1
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One thing that really gets on my nerves, and I used to make the point to my defenders/players at grass roots level is if you are able to take some care over a clearance to do so. That isn't always possible when under pressure, but when you have a free clearing header or a second or two of time, you should have a mental note of where your teammates are constantly and try to put the ball as far as possible in those areas when you do need to clear. Not always possible of course, but I think we noticeably don't do this enough when it is.
Of course familiarity helps with this also. When you play with players enough times, you have an idea what positions they are going to take up. I think we don't which is in part a consequence of chopping and changing so much. This not only has a defensive impact, but an offensive one too.0 -
Think the players have decided the better way is to not go in for tackles.Dizzle said:
I’ve thought this for a while, but last seasons injury crisis has scarred Bows. It was awful, granted. But possibly a freak occurrence having that many first teamers out at one time. He has now decided the best way to avoid injuries is rotation and limiting some of the more injury hit players to 20 minute appearances every so often. I genuinely think he is scarred from it and is focusing on avoiding it rather than playing the season out as normalDazzler21 said:
Players are being rotated too much.Charltonparklane said:Since Lee's been in charge even when we did have a full squad it was fked about with week in week out chpping and changing.
You can only blame injuries so much.
With the players we have WE MUST BE BETTER
Play your best 11 from the start.3
