Has Bowyer lost it?

ForeverAddickted said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Redrobo said:

RaplhMilne said:

I really get the feeling that some of our fan base are actually Lee Bowyer fans first and only support Charlton as he is our manager. 

I SUPPORT CHARLTON , I am not a signed up member of the LB love in. I don’t want him sacked, I want him to make Charlton successful. If he is not capable of doing that, then he goes. I am not attached to him in some big loyalty love in the way some appear to be.  He is being very well paid to do this job, in the last couple of months, it’s been a disaster. Either fix it, or go...... it’s that simple.

I hope today is the first step on him fixing it. 

No disrespect, but you do come across as an arrogant dickhead. I doubt if there is anyone on this site that is not first and foremost a Charlton fan. 

The good news is you haven’t upset anyone because of that.

Haha the irony

Redrobo said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Redrobo said:

RaplhMilne said:

I really get the feeling that some of our fan base are actually Lee Bowyer fans first and only support Charlton as he is our manager. 

I SUPPORT CHARLTON , I am not a signed up member of the LB love in. I don’t want him sacked, I want him to make Charlton successful. If he is not capable of doing that, then he goes. I am not attached to him in some big loyalty love in the way some appear to be.  He is being very well paid to do this job, in the last couple of months, it’s been a disaster. Either fix it, or go...... it’s that simple.

I hope today is the first step on him fixing it. 

No disrespect, but you do come across as an arrogant dickhead. I doubt if there is anyone on this site that is not first and foremost a Charlton fan. 

The good news is you haven’t upset anyone because of that.

Haha the irony

You are obviously someone who hopes we lose so you can dig out the manager. All becomes clear.

To be fair a lot of us can probably dickheads on here at times... I know I certainly can which is why I'm trying to be more relaxed after Hull

Its difficult though as apart from Raplh's opening line he's right, we all just want Charlton to do well at the end of the day

See I think part of the sentiment of Ralph's comment is right.  Although I am not sure if I took it the way he ment it. 

It's probably true for all sets of fans but we seem to have a significant number of fans (by no means a majority BTW) that give the impression they would rather be less successful with the "right kind of chaps" than more successful with anyone else.  That covers the whole club, not just the football management, the players and the rest of the staff.

Conversely they are people that would happily been run by the biggest wan**ers in the world if it guarantees success.

Most people, from my experience are somewhere in between but this subject, like some discussions on past and present players, seems to be influenced by where you position yourself between those extreams. 

MuttleyCAFC said:

The problem is a number of fans know Bowyer has lost the dressing room. 

Has he though? Like many others, I’ve criticised Bowyer and at least some of that is justified. I don’t see anyway back from losing a dressing room which is why I thought his time was running out. There’s no doubt he’s alienated and upset a few but the second half fight back changed a mind a bit. As long as the players are battling for him I want him to stay. 

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Do you think he was making up what he said? Or doesn't that matter?

I think fans in general (probably "helped" by media coverage) see "losing the dressing room" as this catastrophic disaster that cannot possibly be redeemed. In the real world, no doubt there are times when managers do fall out with certain players (even groups of players) but not so much so they can't turn it around.

Where exactly Bowyer is on this scale right now we just don't know - either way.

True as well @thenewbie (not quoting you as the function appears messed up enough) - Certainly not discrediting what J Block, OoohAah and others say about losing the dressing room...

But then you also have that conversation someone had with Maddison when he said Bowyer's issue was the fact he needed to find some consistency with his selections (?) 

FishCostaFortune said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

How would you explain that second half performance against Rochdale then Mutts? The intensity, and desire that each player played with does not indicate a lost dressing room. They could have quiet easily folded considering how woeful we have been in the during the last 10 games. 

Not sure where that's been the last stretch of games, but will be interesting to see how they respond today. Another limp performance and perhaps my mind will change. 

I would use the word professionalism. Unlike many 'loyal' supporters on here, I believe we have a very strong squad of players for the level. Also, I said to my brother at half time that I didn't expect to lose as Rochdale were so poor defensively.

We can still win games because we have better players, but ultimately I know players are unhappy with him. It could come to a head at some point. Probably nearer the end of the season if nothing is done before it.  

Athletico Charlton said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Dont think it helps now we've got Alex Gilbey potentially talking to his mate saying that Bowyer doesnt have a clue, whilst a new signing in Ronnie Schwartz is equally talking to the media saying that Bowyer is good tactically... Certainly muddies the water

Of course the latter could very well be Sandgaard planting things to try and quash the "rumours", but if so that could disastrously backfire

Since Rubbershoes came in as club PR I have noticed that our players when interviewed by the club often drop a phrase in which fits a certain narrative of the time... Youngsters/loaners etc always stating how much they have been improved by their time at the club became a very common theme which was never as pronounced previously for example.  Nothing wrong with it, a club should push its own narrative but it makes me a little sceptical about the timing of Schwartz's words.  Maybe unfair I know.

No I completely agree with you... Its very strange timing given the fact he's only been around for a week (?), would argue its a bit soon for him to be making that type of assessment as well.

Only thing I doubt is whether the club would be worried about it creating further divisions amongst the players... You'd have a group quietly opposing Bowyer at the moment (they may well have spoken with TS), then this new fella comes in and publicly almost calls them liars

FishCostaFortune said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

How would you explain that second half performance against Rochdale then Mutts? The intensity, and desire that each player played with does not indicate a lost dressing room. They could have quiet easily folded considering how woeful we have been in the during the last 10 games. 

Not sure where that's been the last stretch of games, but will be interesting to see how they respond today. Another limp performance and perhaps my mind will change. 

It was the 1st time, I think, publicly Bowyer held his hands up that HE got it wrong.

Compare it to Hull where he set his team up for a system they didn't play and then didn't change it.

It looks, to me, like the players felt liberated when he made that change. 

People who are seasoned L1 performers and regular POTS  at their club probably do find our game approach and tactics more than frustrating.

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

mendonca said:

People who are seasoned L1 performers and regular POTS  at their club probably do find our game approach and tactics more than frustrating.

Which makes the recruitment strategy appear odd, to say the least. 

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

Sorry I didn't realise you knew a player, I thought you was just speculating. To be honest though players will probably feel differently anyway. Maddison for example is probably going to be a lot more scathing of Bowyer than someone like Pratley would be. Obviously it's more likely to be truthful if it's being repeated by different players. I can only go on the evidence I witness which is that I thought he had lost the dressing room and then Tuesday showed that might not be true. Performances over the next few weeks will speak volumes either way. 

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.

Omg Aneke didn’t score let’s get rid!!!